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Old 01-15-2009, 06:46 PM   #1
Razor Raven
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Muyo's guide to damage/energy terms

Reposting from Serebii

You may have noticed that the attack list we use has a lot of terms that are used to describe damage and energy use. However, we never defined what the terms meant in relation to each other. This is how it shakes out.

Minor Thunder Wave
Light Fake Out
Mild Quick Attack
Moderate Thundershock
Decent Charge Beam
Good Spark
Solid Thunder Punch
Considerable Discharge
Significant Thunderbolt
Heavy Zap Cannon
High Sky Attack
Major Thunder
Severe Bolt Strike (Reshiram)
Massive Leaf Storm
Extreme Hyper Beam

OLD TERMS NO LONGER IN USE:
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In order from least to most:
  • Minor
  • Light
  • Mild
  • Mediocre
  • Moderate
  • Decent
  • Solid
  • Reasonable
  • Good
  • Considerable
  • Very Good
  • Fairly High
  • Substantial
  • Significant
  • Large
  • High
  • Major
  • Severe
  • Heavy
  • Massive
  • Very Heavy
  • Tremendous
  • Extreme


Some- Is a special case for recoil, with recoil proportional to roughly four-five clicks below the move used's base power.

If there are any other terms that you're unsure of, feel free to ask.

Last edited by Concept; 11-20-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:59 PM   #2
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Hard plz
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:49 PM   #3
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Excellent appears in the description for power whip. As it stands I reffed it as being between thunderbolt and thunder power.
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:54 PM   #4
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Future Sight says powerful.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:06 PM   #5
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The above are adjectives to be used before the word damage or energy. Saying Togepi took powerful damage or used excellent energy makes no sense which is why they may be phrased that way in the attack descriptions but are not listed here.

Also, I kind of think Severe > Damage.
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
The above are adjectives to be used before the word damage or energy. Saying Togepi took powerful damage or used excellent energy makes no sense which is why they may be phrased that way in the attack descriptions but are not listed here.

Also, I kind of think Severe > Damage.
If that's the case, that makes those attack descriptions really, really unhelpful.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:01 PM   #7
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What a huge surprise that attack descriptions should be unhelpful.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:43 PM   #8
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In addition to Hard from above, Fairly Heavy please?
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:10 PM   #9
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Fuck me. Ok, well then, anyone want to propose a simpler, clearer version?
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:41 PM   #10
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Well, a points scale something you can think about.

Advantages: everyone already does this. Fire Blast = 0.8 x Hyper Beam, Flamethrower = 0.6 Hyper Beam etc. Or whatever the numbers turn out to be. It's easy to convert to "a good bit below 1/2 health" or whatever.

Disadvantages: Can be arbitrary.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:46 PM   #11
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I'm definitely against putting numbers in stone. It's one of the things I really dislike about the other ASB - this is ANIME style battling, not game style. Especially seeing as very large amount of attacks are affected by various factors (an aqua tail from a poke doing a lot less against a Metagross than a Pidgey, for example). The current system is good, defining as it does relative attack strength rather than absolute. The major problem is with the attack descriptions list, where energy/damage terms are almost always either missing or wrong (flamethrower stronger than hyper beam olol).

Tl;dr version: Current system good, current attack descriptions shit.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:47 PM   #12
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No numbers, just a list for now. For powers of:

20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 250+
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:15 PM   #13
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No numbers, just a list for now. For powers of:

20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 250+
20: Light

40: Moderate

60: Medium

80: Good

100: Significant

120: Heavy

150: Massive

250+: Extreme

Last edited by Mercutio; 08-16-2010 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:16 PM   #14
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I'd change 'Super Heavy' to 'Extreme' myself, Kush
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:18 PM   #15
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I think some upward expansion, with some new terms at the top end, couldn't hurt. For example, Extreme could mean a million different things, from a 5 HB Last Resort to a 1 HB Hyper Beam. I dunno about it's plausibility but some clarification as to exactly where a Hyper Beam is when it comes to the upper end of the scale couldn't hurt.
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:34 PM   #16
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2 Hyper Beams worth of energy: Godly

3 " " : UnGodly

4 " " : Like being told your Mum adopted you after a visit to Taco Bell-y

5 " " : Like being screwed by a velcro clad badger-y

6 " " : Like having Michael Moore chew his way into your sewn up mouth and vomit-y

Last edited by Mercutio; 08-16-2010 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_M View Post
I think some upward expansion, with some new terms at the top end, couldn't hurt. For example, Extreme could mean a million different things, from a 5 HB Last Resort to a 1 HB Hyper Beam. I dunno about it's plausibility but some clarification as to exactly where a Hyper Beam is when it comes to the upper end of the scale couldn't hurt.
Hyper beam is major. Or at least that's what I was told. Hence the fail with flamethrower being described as heavy.
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:55 PM   #18
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I've already condensed some of the new terms in the attack list, and am going through putting everything in a more consistent form to the anime and the games. You just worry about the spectacle and let me take care of the number-term crunch, m'kay Mozzykins?
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:20 AM   #19
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Also huge appears in the energy for magnet rise.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:15 AM   #20
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I don't know if this will sound sufficiently bitchy but for reference it should :p

As everyone knows I left two months ago due to school. Attack list plans were going through and damages were being standardized due to the inaccuracy of many of the attacks. And I came back and it seems to me as though the problem has only gotten worse. Many refs, recognizing that the attack list isn't very precise, have adopted their own systems.

The problem with this, though, is that the battlers have absolutely no reference to go off of. A battler may order an attack believing it's going to do .33 damage, as that's what "moderate" would imply in their own understanding of the attack damages. However, the ref may ramp that damage up to .5 or .6 based on their own personal scale. It is simply unfair to the battlers to not have even the slightest clue how much damage their attack is doing, if the referee is calculating damage correctly, or being able to accurately predict how much damage their Pokemon can sustain without being knocked out.

What am I suggesting? Um, that's a good question. However, something must be done.

Until more definitive (and better) actions can be taken, I have two suggestions:

a) Standardize that all referees go by the Muyo Scale with exceptions for obvious attacks, with given benchmarks.]
b) Standardize a scale where all attacks are given damages based on game damages. I realize this is the ASB but it's not like the anime has a damage scale or anything. For example, Psychic has a base power of 90, while Hyper Beam is at 150. 90/150 = 0.6 HB. The actual fluid mechanics of a Pokemon battle (dodging, partial hits etc.) would still instill the "anime" feel of the league.

These are the only two I can come up with that actually standardize something. Both are fixes which do not actually fix the underlying problem. However as it stands I feel that something must be done in order for battlers to make adequately informed battling decisions.

I realize that people are busy but to be honest this is kinda turning me off the ASB at the moment. Again do what you will but these are my suggestions.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:18 AM   #21
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Well, several suggestions were floated and they were knocked down. For example, every single active ref uses a number based system e.g. 0.8 of a Hyper Beam for Fire Blast, yet when this was suggested the LOs vetoed it. I and others have said before that we're willign to go through the attack lists and deal with them but it hasn't been dealt with.

Muyo is addressing this by creating more LOs but I doubt that the process will be quick.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:38 PM   #22
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I think a) would be a good idea and some people suggest a scale and people vote on it and use that as a scale, then go through the attack list and check the attacks.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:54 PM   #23
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While the based on the game's damage sounds good for the most part... there are some instances where it wouldn't work so well. Rock Smash, for one thing. Dragon Rage, for another.


Now that I've said that, time for something for the other side. S_M said that the PASBL part would be factored in with stuff like partial hits and dodging- the 3D aspects. However, there's more to it than that. Whether a move is a bolt, a beam, a punch, a kick, a projectile, a wall, a wave, or one that affects the arena- they all work differently. That in itself seperates the PASBL from the games by leaps and bounds. Basing the move scale off the damages they do in the games wouldn't make it too much like the games- AT ALL. Some exceptions would have to be made, but that just does more to set this apart from the games.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:04 AM   #24
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A lot of this conversation is moot since we plan on revising the whole of the attack list once we get our LO structure sorted out a bit.

Quote:
b) Standardize a scale where all attacks are given damages based on game damages. I realize this is the ASB but it's not like the anime has a damage scale or anything. For example, Psychic has a base power of 90, while Hyper Beam is at 150. 90/150 = 0.6 HB. The actual fluid mechanics of a Pokemon battle (dodging, partial hits etc.) would still instill the "anime" feel of the league.
This is the current plan.
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