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Old 02-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #1
Mercutio
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Sunflora Time Out

I realise that there's a miscellaneous forum, but can we have a generic chat thread? Would be useful.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
I realise that there's a miscellaneous forum, but can we have a generic chat thread? Would be useful.
Unless either one of the PASBL or the FB communities are willing to transfer their chat operations from their TOs to a Misc TO, its creation isn't immediately necessitated -- and that's simply because most of the non-ASB, non-FB regulars are sensible enough to use a webforum as it's intended to be used and create topical threads for the topics they wish to discuss. Or they use already-created "catch all" threads for those things one might want to share but all on their own don't feel that thread worthy. (Like, Going to Hell is basically our jokes + YouTube videos + "let's all laugh at this" thread, Pick Up & Plays is basically our "yeah, I just beat this one game, felt like telling you guys about it but not like making a thread for it" thread, bbb's suggestion box is pretty much our "misc anime chat" thread + our "animes I don't feel like making a thread for" thread, and so on.)

Mind, I'm not trying to argue against you here. What you've asked for is an important step either towards what I would like to see happen (i.e. it would help facilitate it) or else is an important part of my own planned suggestion (i.e. it would help ensure that growing pains from an already-implemented plan are minimized). In other words, I am not against your idea no matter the circumstances -- I'm just (softly) against it if ASB and FB both plan to keep on doin' what they're doin'. In other words, I'm against us having a third TO. We don't need one. The problem isn't a lack of TOs, it's a problem of too many, too isolated. One community-wide chat thread, fine. Two isolated chat threads, this is why we can't have nice things. Three isolated chat threads, WTH.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
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Ehhh, the subject specific threads you mention are fine and dandy but the first ones that are kind of chat threads don't really speak to new people. Which is rather the point.

Having ASB/FB related chat threads is necessary, unless everyone here particularly cares about DaveTheFishGuy's attempt to catch a Regice...
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:12 PM   #4
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If this was used, then we would have to make it so that post counts wouldn't go up, just to make it on par with the other time out threads.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:13 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Having ASB/FB related chat threads is necessary, unless everyone here particularly cares about DaveTheFishGuy's attempt to catch a Regice...
100% agree. But that is not what the current TOs in either community are. I 100% agree that this would be, to me, the ideal:

ASB TO: people chitchatting about miscellaneous ASB things. Examples:
  • "Congrats on LO, Dave! "
  • "Congrats on Kyogre, Shrabna! "
  • "Whoa, did you see the latest reffing in Kuno vs. LC? :O Holy shit!"
FB TO: people chitchatting about miscellaneous FB things. Examples:
  • Missingno.Master's periodic FB polls, though even those I feel belong each in their own separate thread, and not in a chat thread where the replies get lost and forgotten to the sands of time and then the question is inevitably asked, and re-asked, and re-re-asked a thousand times over
  • "I'm looking for new people to update in the Cloud Garden. I have two slots. Any takers?"
  • "What Shadow Pokémon are you hoping will be available this Hallowe'en! "
UPN TO: general, general chitchat
  • Perhaps Daisy discusses something that she did in school today and others chime in to ask questions ...
  • Perhaps Kuno says he's bored and considering LiveStreaming soon ...
  • Perhaps Amras asks if anyone in the southern Indiana area has a spare PS3 he can borrow
Whatever it is, it's just miscellaneous chitchat. And sure, inevitably, sometimes people will discuss things for which a thread could be made but isn't. Because they're lazy about it or something. HOWEVER, THAT SHOULD ONLY BE HAPPENING IN THE UPN TO, NOT IN THE FB OR ASB TOS! So like, if someone just feels like chatting and they mention the latest Deadpool comic in the UPN TO, whatever, it slipped through. But if people start discussing Dr. Who for two pages in the ASB TO and just snicker when someone links them to the Entertainment forum's Dr. Who thread ... or when people start discussing Demon's Souls in the FB TO for an entire page and just ignore it when they're linked to the Demon's Souls thread in Video Games ... that is not cool.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by swampert28 View Post
If this was used, then we would have to make it so that post counts wouldn't go up, just to make it on par with the other time out threads.
I've never quite understood why anyone cares about this issue, but sounds fine by me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
100% agree. But that is not what the current TOs in either community are. I 100% agree that this would be, to me, the ideal:

ASB TO: people chitchatting about miscellaneous ASB things. Examples:
  • "Congrats on LO, Dave! "
  • "Congrats on Kyogre, Shrabna! "
  • "Whoa, did you see the latest reffing in Kuno vs. LC? :O Holy shit!"
FB TO: people chitchatting about miscellaneous FB things. Examples:
  • Missingno.Master's periodic FB polls, though even those I feel belong each in their own separate thread, and not in a chat thread where the replies get lost and forgotten to the sands of time and then the question is inevitably asked, and re-asked, and re-re-asked a thousand times over
  • "I'm looking for new people to update in the Cloud Garden. I have two slots. Any takers?"
  • "What Shadow Pokémon are you hoping will be available this Hallowe'en! "
UPN TO: general, general chitchat
  • Perhaps Daisy discusses something that she did in school today and others chime in to ask questions ...
  • Perhaps Kuno says he's bored and considering LiveStreaming soon ...
  • Perhaps Amras asks if anyone in the southern Indiana area has a spare PS3 he can borrow
Whatever it is, it's just miscellaneous chitchat. And sure, inevitably, sometimes people will discuss things for which a thread could be made but isn't. Because they're lazy about it or something. HOWEVER, THAT SHOULD ONLY BE HAPPENING IN THE UPN TO, NOT IN THE FB OR ASB TOS! So like, if someone just feels like chatting and they mention the latest Deadpool comic in the UPN TO, whatever, it slipped through. But if people start discussing Dr. Who for two pages in the ASB TO and just snicker when someone links them to the Entertainment forum's Dr. Who thread ... or when people start discussing Demon's Souls in the FB TO for an entire page and just ignore it when they're linked to the Demon's Souls thread in Video Games ... that is not cool.
I don't really understand why this is a problem. I actually think it would be good. Connection by diffusion, works pretty well in the real world.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:38 PM   #7
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What do you mean by "this"?
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:52 PM   #8
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Turning off post count. I mean, I think I read that Kuno doesn't want post counts expanding from chat threads, which is the reason. I personally don't understand why he minds, but it's not a significant thing since all you get are Kanto badges.

Or, since you were probably not talking about that >.<

Having people chat about random stuff in the ASB TO not the UPN TO or the specific threads e.g. Dr Who thread. As long as they aren't only posting there, it's all gravy.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Turning off post count. I mean, I think I read that Kuno doesn't want post counts expanding from chat threads, which is the reason. I personally don't understand why he minds, but it's not a significant thing since all you get are Kanto badges.
Oh. I don't really care either, especially since I come from an era where all posts did count towards a post count. Didn't care about post counts other than a "Ooh, pretty sunrise! " then, don't care about them more than a "Ooh, pretty sunrise! " now. Like, it's still a fun little silly thing to post about when you make a post count achievement, but I could honestly care less whether I was in 1st/2nd place or 23rd, whether I had 10,000 post digits or 100, etc. I don't recall if UPN has ever disabled post counts outright -- I think it has? Maybe? -- but I've signed up for many forums over the years which have disabled them and it hasn't been an issue.

You can ask Kuno himself, but the way he put it to me once before, he likes that post counts currently are a (more) accurate reflector of how much intelligent/decent conversation you've contributed to the forum than they would be if they allowed for all of these:
Quote:
Sup.
Quote:
So I herd you liek mudkipz.
Quote:
Fucking someone ref me!
Quote:
How do I delete posts?
And so on. He likes that, more so than it would otherwise, the post count is a more accurate reflection of how many posts like these, like the one I am writing this very second, a person has submitted.

But even I have posted a single-emoticon post before in Misc. No post count is a 100% accurate indicator of how many "worthy" posts you have contributed over the years.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:36 PM   #10
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Been thinking about this. A few things:

Where would said thread be located?
Also the post count thing is an issue for me. It's just one of those things.

Aside from that, I don't see anyone that would be too bothered by this, I suppose.

Unrelated: I've been thinking about adding more ranks but not sure what to do. Ideas?
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #11
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> Location

Misc. I imagine.

> Ranks

???

If you mean badges, gogo Johto badges.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #12
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But the Johto badges are so ugly. ^^; I thought Sinnoh's stained glass window-esque badges were rather pretty, even if not terribly memorable in most cases. I guess Johto makes the most sense though. Although ... given the exponential nature of post count icon acquisition, just what would it take to reach the sixteenth badge, I wonder?
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:08 PM   #13
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Jhoto Badges were simply awesome. Unova ones are pretty cool.

Sinnoh had badges? Huh, I thought those were just pieces of rubbish you picked up on the way to help clean up. Go green, kids.

As far as randomness in TOs, that is kinda the point of a TO. A full-UPN TO, to me, would be far less comfortable than the ASB TO. The FB TO is far less comfortable than the ASB TO (which is why I don't really post in that thread much anymore). ASB is like a home to me. Sure, I do stuff on UPN in general, but UPN in general is not as warm to me as ASB has been.

Does this feel like an attempt to put complex humans into neat, little boxes to anyone else?
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:13 PM   #14
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Welcome to western society!
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:28 PM   #15
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Fuck Western Society
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:20 PM   #16
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I am more than willing to participate in the UPN TO as long as the FB TO remains untouched. For those against multiple TOs, back when there was more activity over the summer for FB, both the Serebii and UPN TOs were active and often two different discussions would go on, so if you didn't want to participate in one you could go to the other. I think having a UPN TO in addition to the other TOs would be a great thing.

Honestly, to ask for the FB and ASB TOs to be deleted would feel like we were being punished when we've done nothing wrong. I can see the argument that the general community needs more love, but why would you take away the TO that we enjoy? As long as the FB TO is not deleted, I will be happy and more than willing to post here... otherwise, the Serebii TO will probably be where I relocate, which doesn't exactly help my participation here.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion Ette View Post
I can see the argument that the general community needs more love, but why would you take away the TO that we enjoy?
When a homeless shelter is too accommodating, you give the homeless no reason to ever leave.

When a welfare program is too accommodating, you give the unemployed no reason to ever work.

And when a Time Out thread is too accommodating, you give the members who post there no reason to ever branch out.

No one is saying axe a chat thread in FB completely. But axe Supernatural discussion there? Spider-Man discussion there? Demon's Souls discussion there? When we're trying to motivate you to discuss those very same topics in the main forum? Absolutely.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:40 PM   #18
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Would you please stop talking about us like we're these TO-dependent crackheads? It's super degrading.

The TO is a place for us to socialize and the reason I don't want to see it go is because it's nice just to be able to chat with close friends about a variety of subjects without having to derail the conversation just to jump over to a different thread. I defend it because I enjoy talking there, not because I'm afraid of the big scary general forums. As I said, I am more than willing to participate in the UPN TO, and I'm sure many others are, too... but I do not want to lose the FB TO as a result.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
When a homeless shelter is too accommodating, you give the homeless no reason to ever leave.

When a welfare program is too accommodating, you give the unemployed no reason to ever work.

And when a Time Out thread is too accommodating, you give the members who post there no reason to ever branch out.
I just want to say that this is a terrible analogy. You can do better.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion Ette View Post
Would you please stop talking about us like we're these TO-dependent crackheads? It's super degrading.
I didn't call anybody a crackhead. These are just the analogies that come to mind.
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I just want to say that this is a terrible analogy. You can do better.
I could make any number of analogies, but you get the point: our hope to get people to post in the rest of the forum is doomed to failure, and provably has been so for far too long, when people are perfectly happy posting in the TOs because the TOs say "You are free to discuss whatever you want here" and so the people do and never set foot outside. "Why would I want to discuss the Superman movie with those UPN people? I already discussed it with my FB peeps. :3" "Why would I want to discuss Firefly over there when I already said all I wanted to say here in the ASB TO? " Because of redundancy, nobody wants to say their say more than once; and because of this artificial-turned-natural segregation, that leads to fractured communication and a split-up family.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:02 PM   #21
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Let me ask you this, Talon; has a UPN Time Out thread ever existed before now? I seriously think that, before dooming this place to failure due to the other existing TOs, you should give it a chance first with the other TOs still active. If the thread then proceeds to die out, then your argument obviously will have more merit.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:07 PM   #22
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I think that regardless of if anything happens to the FB/ASB TOs, a general UPN TO would be nice.

Considering how opposed people are to talking to people with similar interests, to the point of bashing the other's TO, and not wanting to talk to general UPNers... I'm not really sure how this would work. I'm a fan of more conversation and discussion, but not a fan of "I guess I have to talk about Star Wars here..."... doesn't seem like a good foundation for a friendship or discourse.

tl;dr: UPN TO = yes; forcing people to post in the general forums, pissing them off in the process = ehhhhhh

Also we should get rid of the Debate forum =p
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #23
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Nah, the Debate forum is good for letting off steam. And I'd rather Talon write his essays there than when he doesn't get that joke some guy made about Rainbow Dash.

UPN TO is a pretty great idea and y'all are taking it too seriously. Make it and see what happens.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:32 PM   #24
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One thing I don't like about Time Out (any of them, not just FB or ASB) is that if I go to bed and wake up the next morning, click on it, the new posts I see might be like 3 pages behind and whatever I read I can't respond to because the topic is like so 8 hours ago.

But if I go into the Superheroes thread, I know I can always talk about superheroes without feeling like I changed the conversation. If I go into the Pope thread, I know I can always talk about Darth Sidious Pope Benedict XVI and still be on topic.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:45 PM   #25
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Let me ask you this, Talon; has a UPN Time Out thread ever existed before now? I seriously think that, before dooming this place to failure due to the other existing TOs, you should give it a chance first with the other TOs still active. If the thread then proceeds to die out, then your argument obviously will have more merit.
As I have publicly said in many places you should have seen already (*cough* like the FBTO, ironically *cough*), I am perfectly fine with this suggestion. Temporarily though, not permanently. (At some point you have to declare the patient dead and announce the time of death.)

Let me ask you this: why do you post on a webforum if you want to have all of your conversations bottled up in one thread? Why do you think the bulletin board format of e-communication evolved, and how do you think it is meant to be used? Put another way, why don't you just have an FB Skype or an FB AIM chatroom with all of your FB friends and acquaintances if you have zero desire to branch away from one chat thread? (And by "you", I mean both the collective you, meaning every last person who has been horrified by this proposal of mine, as well as specifically you, the young woman behind the user handle Marion Ette.) Don't you think you're sort of missing the point of what a message board is all about when you try to discuss all of your topics du jour inside of one catch-all thread? Message boards are about making separate threads for separate discussion topics, period. No debate, that is their defining feature that sets them apart from a chatroom, from a Usenet group, from instant messenger protocols, from everything else that existed in the 1990s.

Let me follow this up with a second question: why do you think it is implicitly forbidden to fill either the ASB TO or the FB TO with hundreds upon hundreds of unique threads for unique discussion topics? Why do you think explicitly Kuno has not created an Anime subforum in the FBTO subforum, or an Entertainment one, or a Debates one, etc? Why shouldn't he do that if he is 100% okay with letting FB exist as its own autonomous state that doesn't have to interact with the main forums at all if it doesn't want to?

The answer to that question is the reason why you don't have any subforums in the FBTO subforum and why you have so, so few threads in there. FB and ASB were never intended to be completely autonomous and separate communities from UPN. If they were, they would have their own copies of every last thread that UPN has.
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