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Old 05-26-2017, 09:14 PM   #1
Jerichi
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Spinda A Brighter Future (WF Development)

FB just had one of these so why can't we?

It's been quiet around here lately. There are some obvious reasons for it, and some less obvious ones. With FB recently rising from the ashes and shaking off the dust, it feels only appropriate to try to kick some life into WF.

So I suppose I have some questions for you:
  • What could we do to make WF more active?
  • What do you want to see change in WF?
  • What can we do to build the WF community?
  • How can we attract people to WF (both in and outside of UPN)?
  • How can we retain people's interest?
  • How can we keep updaters updating?
  • How can we keep adventures moving?

Feel free to discuss things beyond this or even smaller topics within it -
I just want to get some core talking points in a post so we can have some productive discussion!

Go!
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:27 AM   #2
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What could we do to make WF more active?

Outside of updater regulations, there's not much we can do on that front. One thing we could do to increase continual activity for both updaters and adventurers is implementing something similar to the fast reffing bonus in ASB. As it stands, updaters don't really lose anything if they take a while to update. They'll still be getting the same amount of points for the updater shop, just at a slower rate. Implementing something like that might do at least a little to make updaters want to work more and faster, helping to retain the interest of the adventurer.

Outside of the adventure threads, though, all I can think of to increase activity is to maybe make it more obvious that members can play a part in world building? Obviously people who are just starting shouldn't be able to influence the world, but maybe we could find some way to compensate for people who wish to contribute lore, interesting locations, or things of that nature. It could give the community something to do while waiting for their adventure to be updated. Someone could suggest something, make a writeup for it, and then either the community, a collections of vets/mods, or just Jeri could decide on whether to make it canon or not.

What do you want to see change in WF?

The biggest thing I would like to see change is sadly something completely out of our control: the size of the member base. As it stands, we have more updatees than updaters, but even then, the split isn't huge. If there were a way to get more members than stick around for the long haul, some or most of them would theoretically become updaters as well, and we would probably find a balance. As it stands, the member base is incredibly stagnant, even compared to ASB and FB. We're just the niche of the niche, and tragically, there's not really anything we can do about it besides advertise and hope we get lucky.

What can we do to build the WF community?

I think the worldbuilding idea from above could be a good thing to get everyone involved. At the moment, WF is kind of just a jumble of people who either identify with ASB or FB because they've put the most time into one of those. Honestly, I don't think there's much of a way to counteract that simply because those have been around longer and are what brought most people to UPN in the firstplace. Maybe some sort of group campaign could help bring people closer, but my fear is that the only people who would actively take part in the long run of it are people who already strongly identify with WF.

How can we attract people to WF (both in and outside of UPN)?

For in UPN, I'd focus on how it's much less intimidating than FB (in terms of how much there is to wrap your head around) and how it can easily complement doing either FB or ASB. Now, ideally we'd like to get people to shift their main focus to WF at some point along the line, but for getting them interested, it needs to not be overbearing. Emphasize how the scarcity and amount of effort necessary to get Pokemon and rewards makes them feel all the more special when you finally DO get them. Like Kyuu was talking about on Discord iirc, making the comparison to D&D isn't necessarily a bad one.

As for outside, I just think it's all a matter of luck. It's been states a ton and everyone probably realizes that Pokemon RP isn't a huge thing, so I really don't know about this one. All I can really think of is let your friends who are into D&D and/or Pokemon know about it and maybe we can shoot a link into the Pokemon Showdown RP chatroom at some point.

How can we retain people's interest?

Every updater who decides to pick up a new member needs to be able to update frequently. Ideally, they should be able to respond within the amount of time it takes for the new member to respond x2. The biggest killer of motivation for new members is getting excited about something new only to never get the chance to play because you're only getting one update each month. Chances are that the new member will never even get the chance to read the update, if that's the case. We should probably either implement a system or just make a rule for updaters not to pick up new people if they can't update once a week for the first adventure. While it may be mean to dedicated people who have stuck around WF for a long time and poured tons of effort in, our hyper updaters (TKF, SS, Connor and I when we aren't busy), should absolutely be making new members our number one priority.

How can we keep updaters updating?

At this point, I would say either have rewards for speed, or if someone is supposed to be updating someone but is taking forever to do so (more than 2 weeks between updates with no Updater Absence post), start gradually depleting the updater points and monthly shop points that they are saving up. Obviously, if they don't have any updatees because there either aren't any or they are taking a break from updating due to life, don't mess with the points, but for people who are active but are simply being lazy / prioritizing other things (ie responding weekly to FB zone updates or maintaining their 48 HR reffing bonus in ASB), we might just need to be a bit harder on them and light a fire under their ass to update once every two weeks or so. It should be up to the adventurer to determine the pace of their adventure, not the updater (real life inconveniences excluded).

How can we keep adventures moving?

Encourage people who think they won't be able to update consistently to draft a barebones plot outline and post it in the updater forum. It can be as specific or as broad as needed. It can included basic character bios or not. It can be whatever the original updater wants it to be. But if they can't update frequently enough to keep an active person's adventure moving, then imo they lose the right to complain if the adventure they have planned doesn't go 100% how they envisioned it, as long as it sticks to their outline. It's about the adventurer, not the updater, and I trust that the majority of our updaters are capable enough RPers that they won't completely derail a questline.
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Old 05-27-2017, 01:36 AM   #3
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The crux of... well everything really boils down to speed. I'm hardly somebody to be a poster child for the subject, but that's the basic truth. You really can't have shops like in Fizzy Bubbles without ruining the spirit of WF as an RP of scarcity. This is a fantastic setting, but I think that the obvious strangle on this RP is activity. It's nothing complex, nothing else we can blame it on. 90% of the time, this is the problem on the internet. It is no different here.
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Old 05-27-2017, 02:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy View Post
The crux of... well everything really boils down to speed. I'm hardly somebody to be a poster child for the subject, but that's the basic truth. You really can't have shops like in Fizzy Bubbles without ruining the spirit of WF as an RP of scarcity. This is a fantastic setting, but I think that the obvious strangle on this RP is activity. It's nothing complex, nothing else we can blame it on. 90% of the time, this is the problem on the internet. It is no different here.
Yeah most shops wouldn't work, but what about a scavenger/pawn shop? People come across items and things they might not need or want anymore, why not have a way of sharing those items with others? In a post disaster world, trade with others would be crucial so it would make sense. People don't really get a lot of nice things unless they are super updaters like SS, Connor or myself, so it might be a way to share wealth?

When it comes to updaters, we really just need some more of them. Maybe look to a few FB people and look to rope them in? Even if they only take on 1 or 2 people. I'm not against the idea of speed bonuses for updaters, although it would benefit me greatly.... I do think we have enough incentive to update quickly at the moment. We have the updater shop which is filled with awesome stuff, although maybe it is the pricing that deters some people as they think they can't earn that many points? We also have updater shards which from personal experience, are incredibly valuable.
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:41 AM   #5
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So I don't have a whole lot of helpful thoughts to throw in right now, but regarding the "buddy system" of two updators per updatee that Jeri mentioned on Discord earlier...

Whether or not we implement said buddy system, I thought of maybe being able to have "substitute updators" - kind of like a substitute teacher. A few people who may not be able to do updates regularly with enough speed, but can pop in for 1-2 updates here and there as needed.

I know some people plan out a detailed storyline for their updates, so I'm not sure how they'd like a sub covering for them and potentially mixing things up a bit, but it could be good for getting over a plot point that's dragging a bit or a patch of writer's block.

Heck, it could be used by updators who aren't even technically absent, but just raising their hand to say "hey, someone do something do inject some new life into this adventure?" I think sometimes writer's block can be just as detrimental as being called away for offline business.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:06 AM   #6
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> What could we do to make WF more active?
Thank you TKRB! Do as browser games do: when the going's slow, run more campaigns. (You're very well aware of the number of things going on over at FB, no?) Do try to make what you implement newbie-friendly: an eyeful of bonuses restricted to isolated zones with barely any activity won't bring prospective WF-ers running.

> What do you want to see change in WF?
I would like there to be greater opportunities to travel. Compared with WF, even the stalest of D&D tours promise more movement out and about the starting point. I'm not saying updaters should cut corners in adventures, but senseless descriptions of trekking benefit no one if we want meaningful progress in adventures overall. (Reality check: not everyone is cool with Tolkien's trademark level of detail during downtime.)

> What can we do to build the WF community?
You need to foster the same kind of closeness that exists between members of the new-and-improved FB. I'm not sure exactly how you guys pulled that off though...

> How can we attract people to WF (both in and outside of UPN)?
You need to know--and subsequently target--your demographic. Do not sugarcoat facts. Advertise WF for what it is: a challenging, detail-driven, RP experience. (Refrain from using the word "mature"--you'll attract the opposite sort otherwise.) Heck, draw comparisons with D&D if need be.

> How can we retain people's interest?
Underscore the fact that one reaps what you sow here, and if they stick to it, the payoff is immense. Communicate clearly how WF promises an honest-to-goodness alternative adventure free of all that protagonist armor and wish-fulfillment found elsewhere. (Can't you get that from FB?) You have to wear WF limitations with pride: let people know that yes, they'd best know how to swim, because they're going to be thrown straight into the deep end!

> How can we keep updaters updating?
Alas, I only have experience with ASB reffing matters, and we all know how absolutely stellar we are when it comes to consistency.

Perhaps greater character depth and off-kilter quirks to pique updaters' fancy (at least for those starting off). I designed my character with this in mind, but I guess no one cares much for cooking. xD Once well-established, I reckon individual notoriety and RP style will serve to hold updater attention.

> How can we keep adventures moving?
Do you remember that "Rebuilding the World" bulletin posted back in 2014? Sounds familiar... like, oh, the aim of WF, doesn't it? I know you want to avoid narrowing the scope of adventures ("possibilities"), but this is not the type of RP--with its many constraints--that is conducive to aimless pursuits. Updaters and adventurers alike have to be aware of a cohesive objective at any given time.

And honestly, the endgame should not merely be about badges! Adventurers are precisely that, they are not trainers and need not be treated as such. Gym victories feel like a momentous feat--a Herculean task--to newbies like myself with naught but a single Pokemon to name. Please bear this in mind as we carry on into the future.
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:28 PM   #7
Jerichi
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I've been thinking about WF a little bit again and exploring some ideas to generate a little more interest in the RP. Recently, I had a conversation with someone from outside UPN about it and they pointed out something - WF adventures are all a little isolated, and more interaction between people, in adventures and through the overarching world, would be more interesting and engaging.

I had always wanted to have WF have an overarching plot but over the years I ended up favoring developing new mechanics to pull renewed interest instead of plot and my plans for the plot have sort of fallen to the wayside, but having largely run out of large, interesting mechanics to implement, I'd like to bring back more of that overarching plot.

I don't have many ideas yet but I wanted to get some feedback on those I have and source some ideas from you guys too.

Jeri's Thoughts
-To encourage people to have more stake in each other's adventure, or at the very least be able to affect them, I'd like to encourage more people to incorporate significant events into storylines - things that result in the destruction/creation/establishment of a new landmark, or cause some sort of (semi-)permanent change in the game. These effects would also be immediate and far-reaching, meaning if you caused an explosion near a Pokémon Center in Cerulean, other characters would feel the effects and may have their story changed by it.
-Similarly, random events, such as natural disasters, gang activity, or even just severe weather. This would also be immediate and far-reaching, meaning it would affect anyone in the area right when it happens. I'd probably largely be the person dictating these but I'd love to have other people submit events. Things like rare swarms would also fall into this category, as well as possibly special quests.
(Note: Obviously there would be some rules around these and they'd probably not affect things like Gym Battles that would be better to move forward without interruption, and you also probably wouldn't be able to have them happen in essential places like Gyms/Centers.)
-Similar to the last two, I'd also like to incorporate plot events, though I'm not 100% sure what those would be at the moment.

I'm also going to leave the questions above that were asked when this thread was posted to see if anyone else has any responses to them since I'm always looking for feedback. Feel free to throw in any suggestions for new mechanics following in the vein of what I proposed as well.

Lastly, I also just want to touch on new member draw - I know there's chatter about FB's reexpansion to BMG, but I don't want to rely on FB for new members. This has already been touched on a little but I'd like to keep discussing possible sources of recruitment or just long-term goals for the RP generally.

Thanks for all your help and continued contribution to WF!

~Jeri
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