UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-30-2013, 03:55 AM   #1
Ethereal
Creepy Hand Person
 
Ethereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,988
Send a message via AIM to Ethereal Send a message via MSN to Ethereal Send a message via Skype™ to Ethereal
UPN Monotype Tournament; Take 2

Hello!

As our forum's previous monotype tournament went unfinished and we could use a bit more activity among our community, I think another tourney would be a fun thing for all of us to enjoy.

We shall be using the same rules/banlist as the previous tourney, and the format may be the same if you all prefer that (Round Robin).

However, before we start anything, let's have at least 9 people sign up before April 3rd. We can discuss any changes, additions, and deletions from the rules if you wish. Unfortunately, due to aesoft being down, we will have to forgo replays this time around.

Anyway, sign up! The sooner the better!
__________________
Ethereal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 04:37 AM   #2
Celebii151
ADCs in 2017 LUL
 
Celebii151's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Getting 5 manned bot
Posts: 3,381
Send a message via Skype™ to Celebii151
First of all, we can still replay on Pokemon Showdown.

Second of all, signing up.
Celebii151 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 07:57 AM   #3
Slash
Silver LO
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,760
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
Signing up for it, on Pokémon-Online.

Also, Melo's been released now: kosher or not?
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:25 AM   #4
Ethereal
Creepy Hand Person
 
Ethereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,988
Send a message via AIM to Ethereal Send a message via MSN to Ethereal Send a message via Skype™ to Ethereal
Eh, it's UU. I think it's safe enough to use.
__________________
Ethereal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:38 AM   #5
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
I don't know why people hate on PS so much.

Signing up, PS or PO, but realize if you want replays PS is the way to go.

The question being: are we going to allow Pokemon that were banned last tournament but are not Uber, such as Deoxys-D, Kyurem, and Keldeo?

I think a considerable thought also has to go towards the weather starters, though probably not sand since it is not that broken.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:52 AM   #6
Emp
Volcano Badge
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
The question being: are we going to allow Pokemon that were banned last tournament but are not Uber, such as Deoxys-D, Kyurem, and Keldeo?

I think a considerable thought also has to go towards the weather starters, though probably not sand since it is not that broken.
What’s the point in UPNers making these decisions with limited-moderate experience in competitive battling when we already have a website that has done it for us? Their rigorous testing, voting and statistical analysis will give a far more solid indication of what’s fair and what isn’t fair than the few choice opinions of a Pokémon community that doesn’t specialise in competitive battling.
__________________


FB PASBL TL 4

26-4-0 KO74 TP208
B Ref SP 2

Emp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:55 AM   #7
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
What’s the point in UPNers making these decisions with limited-moderate experience in competitive battling when we already have a website that has done it for us? Their rigorous testing, voting and statistical analysis will give a far more solid indication of what’s fair and what isn’t fair than the few choice opinions of a Pokémon community that doesn’t specialise in competitive battling.
Yeah but people get pissy when you bring up Smogon.

Just facts.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:59 AM   #8
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
What’s the point in UPNers making these decisions with limited-moderate experience in competitive battling when we already have a website that has done it for us? Their rigorous testing, voting and statistical analysis will give a far more valuable indication of what’s fair and what isn’t fair than the few choice opinions of a Pokémon community that doesn’t specialise in competitive battling.
Putting aside Smogon's fallibility, a tiering system that's evolved over the past three generations with 6v6 singles almost exclusively in mind doesn't necessarily (and would not be expected to) cleanly apply to a monotype metagame. Putting it into a very, very simple context: whoever drafts Flying gains, according to Smogon, the "OU legal" behemoths of Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, and Landorus (T or regular, don't really care). If that's what you want to do ("whoever drafts Flying wins! ") then go for it. I'll be sitting this one out so I don't really care what you guys decide to do as it won't affect me personally. But I think the outcome's already decided should you subscribe to Smogon (or similar) tiering systems ... well, so long as the person who drafts Flying isn't an idiot, anyway. No accounting for that.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:01 AM   #9
Sneaze
Mrow?
 
Sneaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Camping the White Market
Posts: 6,934
People who get pissy at the mention of Smogon need to put on their big girl panties, suck it up, and deal that frankly their the best source for this sort of thing and that making an individual list would take forever.

Also sign me up, but only if it'll be on PO.
__________________

Daisy wins at life for making this Battle Cut
Sneaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:03 AM   #10
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Putting aside Smogon's fallibility, a tiering system that's evolved over the past three generations with 6v6 singles almost exclusively in mind doesn't necessarily (and would not be expected to) cleanly apply to a monotype metagame. Putting it into a very, very simple context: whoever drafts Flying gains, according to Smogon, the "OU legal" behemoths of Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, and Landorus (T or regular, don't really care). If that's what you want to do ("whoever drafts Flying wins! ") then go for it. I'll be sitting this one out so I don't really care what you guys decide to do as it won't affect me personally. But I think the outcome's already decided should you subscribe to Smogon (or similar) tiering systems ... well, so long as the person who drafts Flying isn't an idiot, anyway. No accounting for that.
Tornadus-T has been banned for a while. I thought you knew that?

And all three of those Pokemon can easily be beaten by others(we are not counting the macaw thing), so it is not a big deal.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:19 AM   #11
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
Tornadus-T has been banned for a while. I thought you knew that?

And all three of those Pokemon can easily be beaten by others(we are not counting the macaw thing), so it is not a big deal.
That's all well and good but you're completely ignoring the point. I'm saying that a set of rules crafted for one metagame (6v6 no holds otherwise specified) cannot be expected (and should never by default be expected) to hold up wonderfully for an entirely different metagame, that Emp's appeal to "Smogon says! " logic is misplaced here even if we put aside challenges to Smogon's fallbility. What you guys should be interested in isn't Smogon's 6v6 tiering but instead Smogon's Monotype tiering (if even one exists); and if one doesn't exist, it's foolish to condemn the crafting of your guys' own Monotype tiering system and to argue that you'd all be better of forcing the square peg that is Smogon 6v6 singles through the round hole that is Monotype.

To give an easy-to-appreciate example, Vulpix is not considered a Smogon über but it is considered an über (and thus is banned) in P-O Monotype because Monotype is a different beast from 6v6 Singles and not every monotype team can be expected to "JUST DEAL " with insta+perma-weather. Similarly both Hippowdon and Hippopotas are banned, not just the adult. Abomasnow and Snover are P-O Monotype legal, it would appear, because I guess Hail teams aren't considered a big enough threat? I wonder what Kuno would have to say to that.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:24 AM   #12
Slash
Silver LO
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,760
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
What's the word on Hidden Abilities? Some, if not many, of us cannot be arsed to keep up with what's been released or not, although I think almost everything has been at some point or another. So are all hidden abilities more or less kosher (barring the few explicitly banned, I mean)?
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:25 AM   #13
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
That's all well and good but you're completely ignoring the point. I'm saying that a set of rules crafted for one metagame (6v6 no holds otherwise specified) cannot be expected (and should never by default be expected) to hold up wonderfully for an entirely different metagame, that Emp's appeal to "Smogon says! " logic is misplaced here even if we put aside challenges to Smogon's fallbility. What you guys should be interested in isn't Smogon's 6v6 tiering but instead Smogon's Monotype tiering (if even one exists); and if one doesn't exist, it's foolish to condemn the crafting of your guys' own Monotype tiering system and to argue that you'd all be better of forcing the square peg that is Smogon 6v6 singles through the round hole that is Monotype.

To give an easy-to-appreciate example, Vulpix is not considered a Smogon über but it is considered an über (and thus is banned) in P-O Monotype because Monotype is a different beast from 6v6 Singles and not every monotype team can be expected to "JUST DEAL " with insta+perma-weather. Similarly both Hippowdon and Hippopotas are banned, not just the adult. Abomasnow and Snover are P-O Monotype legal, it would appear, because I guess Hail teams aren't considered a big enough threat? I wonder what Kuno would have to say to that.
That is all good and dandy(though why ban Hippowdon and not Tyranitar I'll never know), but it actually kinda condemns your point..the only things noticeable that are banned are the weather starters(and Latias/Latios, but PO is too stupid to recognize that they are fine without Soul Dew). Otherwise, this is Smogon singles in its near entirety.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:26 AM   #14
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
What's the word on Hidden Abilities? Some, if not many, of us cannot be arsed to keep up with what's been released or not, although I think almost everything has been at some point or another. So are all hidden abilities more or less kosher (barring the few explicitly banned, I mean)?
All released abilities are kosher on Smogon, but no unreleased ones. I think that is how we shall go.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:28 AM   #15
Slash
Silver LO
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,760
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
I think they should all be kosher for this tourney, honestly. Just makes sense.
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:30 AM   #16
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
I think they should all be kosher for this tourney, honestly. Just makes sense.
Honestly, I disagree. We have no word about how Contrary Serperior will rock the meta. No real playtesting has been done. We don't know about checks or counters or anything.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:34 AM   #17
Slash
Silver LO
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,760
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
But we're not talking meta here. We're taking about a UPN monotype tourney.

How the fuck is Kyurem-B OU?
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:38 AM   #18
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
It's pretty clear that you just want to argue as if you know everything, Blaze, especially since you're spouting nonsense now like "we don't have any data on Contrary Serperior" despite his being in use for years on P-O's DW OU tier. No idea about checks or counters? Try this from your own precious Smogon!
Quote:
Heatran: Can obviously wall all non HP Ground Serperior and destroy them with a Fire STAB. However, beware of the Subseed set, which can actually overwhelm Heatran if the user is not careful

Scizor: A x4 Grass resist is pretty much a must if you want a Pokemon to check Serperior. Scizor is one of these Pokemon, although Hidden Power Fire is just annoying. Scizor can screw over Serperior pretty badly with Bullet Punch or U-turn as well, so as long as that green snake doesn't carry you know what, you should be fine.

Genesect: see Scizor

Dragonite: Can tank any one of Serperior's Attacks thanks to Multi Scale, although do be aware that a +2 HP Ice will KO if Multi Scale is not active. Dragonite can use this opportunity to either set up and go on a sweep of its own, or go for the outright KO.

Salamence: see Dragonite without Multi Scale

Volcarona: Pretty much the same dealeo as the guys before it. x4 Grass resist, can either threaten Serperior with a powerful STAB or set up Quiver Dances. Stealth Rock is freaking gay though, and Offensive versions of Volcarona can be overwhelmed by Subseed if not careful.
Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3461226

See also: P-O's article on DW OU Serperior

"No data." For God's sake, get your head out of Smogon's ass and realize that they are not the be all, end all solution to all your Pokémon problems.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #19
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
But we're not talking meta here. We're taking about a UPN monotype tourney.

How the fuck is Kyurem-B OU?
Ninja'd by Talon. Though I do wish you would be a little bit nicer about it.


Kyurem-B in all honesty isn't that good. The lack of an Ice-stab, weakness to Stealth Rock, weakness to priority, and lackluster speed let it down. I can see it being powerful in Monotype, but not powerful enough where it will bring problems. The 95 base speed is not that kind to it.

All in all, we should have fun with it. I still want a NO on unreleased Dream World abilities though.
__________________

Last edited by Emi; 03-30-2013 at 10:02 AM.
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #20
Toyo
hail
 
Toyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,036
*Appears* I'm willing to enter, PO or PS, although I'm probably fucked.
Toyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 10:51 AM   #21
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
If unreleased Dream World abilities are allowed, I would think it safe to assume that Shadow Tag Chandy won't be allowed?

I am going to look on Serebii to see who doesn't have their Dream World abilities, but Lightningrod Zapdos and Snow Cloak Articuno come to mind.

Found a list:
Spoiler: show

Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Chikorita
Bayleef
Meganium
Cyndaquil
Quilava
Typhlosion
Totodile
Croconaw
Feraligatr
Raikou
Entei
Suicune
Regirock
Regice
Registeel
Heatran
Snivy
Servine
Serperior
Tepig
Pignite
Emboar
Oshawott
Dewott
Samurott
Gothita Rest of its family is realeased
Klink Rest of its family is realeased
Litwick
Lampent
Chandelure
Rufflet
Larvesta
Volcarona
__________________

Last edited by Emi; 03-30-2013 at 10:58 AM.
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #22
Lonely Cubone
Gee, Brain...
 
Lonely Cubone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,103
Send a message via MSN to Lonely Cubone
If there's a PO Monotype Ban-List, would that be better to use?

I'm in in principle. Perhaps we could make it doubles or something for variety?
Lonely Cubone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 02:07 PM   #23
Ethereal
Creepy Hand Person
 
Ethereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,988
Send a message via AIM to Ethereal Send a message via MSN to Ethereal Send a message via Skype™ to Ethereal
I think we should use the PO banlist.

Doubles could be worked in, perhaps as an alternative to singles if both players agree.
__________________
Ethereal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:07 PM   #24
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
I think we should use the PO banlist.

Doubles could be worked in, perhaps as an alternative to singles if both players agree.
I think that is a good idea. It really is just Smogon singles with the weather starters(though again, why ban Hippowdon instead of Tyranitar) and the "2 of these Pokemon" limit.

Doubles sounds interesting. I would be in for it.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 01:06 AM   #25
Kindrindra
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
 
Kindrindra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
Posts: 5,840
Sign me up! I'd personally prefer PO.

...Having been the flying representative last time, I'm a little on the fence about allowing it both Multiscale Dragonite (Oh boy, that brings back good memories of the prediction wars last time...) AND the Therian Genies.


Gotta say, though, really looking forwards to this because the 'Select nine use six' format is FANTASTIC. Just. So awesome.
__________________
PASBL(TL: 4 RL: B-) --- FB (Kin Blackstone) --- WF (Adelie Fleur)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainmisato View Post
People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
Kindrindra is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.