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Old 01-25-2017, 09:03 AM   #5151
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I successfully Heavy Slumped someone who used Maxx "C" but my other defenses weren't good enough to handle him. I still won by forfeit but it was mostly through bluff.

I really don't care for Pot of Desires. It's a dangerous card to use as I grew close to a deck-out. I had 14 cards in deck and needed to draw a Mask Change 2, yet I couldn't.
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Old 01-25-2017, 05:41 PM   #5152
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Pot of Desires gets much worse when you get low on cards.

Also Zoodiacs are literally the worst thing konami has ever done. I don't know how they did it, but they've created something worse than Dragon Rulers.

The most obscenely consistent, splashable, Rank 4 engine in existence. I don't think I'm exaggerating that off the top of my head 95% of decks in the OCG use Zoodiacs in some form. I thought living through Dragon Ruler era was bad.

EDIT: I'm not joking
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:08 PM   #5153
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Also Zoodiacs are literally the worst thing konami has ever done. I don't know how they did it, but they've created something worse than Dragon Rulers.
You rang? Sounds like my kind of deck
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:09 PM   #5154
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There is approximately 50 examples of Zoodiac in that link. enjoy!
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:58 PM   #5155
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Zoodiacs weren't good initially, but the problems were pretty obvious. At the very least, Dimensional Barrier is a good out to them, no?
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:19 PM   #5156
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Zoodiacs were being splashed since release. They are, in fact, the reason Speedroid Terrortop got limited in the OCG.

The main problem with the deck is running Maxx "C" against them doesn't make them lose. You can open Zoodiac Barrage and 4 back row and have Drancia, Rafflesia, and set. It's fucking dumb. Even if you draw off of Maxx "C" there, chances are you'll be stunned to death. This isn't to mention the many hand-traps one could run with backrow: I've seen Droll and Lock Bird in a couple of sides.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:56 PM   #5157
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That doesn't seem too threatening to me. TWTW away the backrow, kaiju, raigeki, or BOE away the monsters. Especially off a Maxx "C" I'd expect to draw into that kind of tech.

Incidentally blaze I really want to play against you because I'm having a number of technical issues with my deck. There is a LOT of dysfunction going on and I'd like to work through it.

At least three main problems as I see it.
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Old 01-25-2017, 11:04 PM   #5158
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I should be able to tomorrow after my appointment and picking up my meds, but I don't have a solid deck I'm invested in right now.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:56 AM   #5159
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I don't really know where to start even. I think the banlist hit too much stuff to keep my deck viable. It's difficult playing into a win condition.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:06 AM   #5160
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...are you playing TCG or OCG?
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:18 AM   #5161
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The August TCG list.

It's a very bad list that more or less exacerbates a lot of the problems my deck has had before. I wish they'd just ban Level Eater already or something, to at least give me an idea on how to build for the next format.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:21 AM   #5162
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I'm sort of confused because I'm not seeing where you really took many hits (Cir????). Are we talking about a difficulty into playing into a win conditions against the strong decks of the format (ABCs, Metalfoes, Frogs/Paleozoics) or just in general? Were you having better match-ups against PePe / Kozmo / Monarchs etc...?
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:32 AM   #5163
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Strong decks and weak decks don't really matter. If I get my plays off, I blow up the opposition no matter what they're running. But I can struggle against Red-Eyes, Blue-Eyes and even statue stun just as badly as against Zoodiacs or Kozmo.

(Metalfoes have not been a problem)

The problem is, I'm running 20 monsters, 20 spells, and no traps.

Of the "core critical" I would say the following qualify:

x2 Shaddoll Squamata
x1 Shaddoll Dragon
x1 Shaddoll Beast
x3 Doppelwarrior
x3 Twin Twister
x1 ROTA
x1 Foolish Burial

The small Shaddoll engine is excellent. Because of Tatsunoko, the vast majority of the time I'm not dumping a Level Eater or Level 1 Tuner - I'm dumping Squamata, who sends Beast, which leads me to draw a card. It's little different from hitting three Upstarts at once, and because the ideal draw is Doppelwarrior, this greatly increases the probability of hitting Doppelwarrior.

The problems occur with the ratios. Without Soul Charge, my deck tends to spit out a field of 3 Synchro Monsters (requiring TWO mats each) on two active tuners, because you loop around Librarian twice. Thus, the question I would ask would be:

1. What two Synchros would be powerful enough to sit on as two-mat materials?
2. What would be considered "essential" defensive cards?
3. What about "essential" removal cards?

I go second most of the time so I often play-in to fields. I have two swing slots that I devote to using tech. The two cards I run there are Raigeki and Swords of Concealing Light, because the idea is I can make enough bosses to run over any opposing army.

Going first, my defenses are limited to Maxx "C"s and Effect Veilers. Below-average? I don't know.

I have no option to punish Maxx "C's either. There are three easy routes I know of - Exodius, Card Destruction, and Heavy Slump. Heavy Slump is situational, Exodius is hard to work with and Card Destruction is banned.

Most of my struggles it that so much of the deck is devoted to the engine I can't really defend against everything. If someone drops a 3000 attack monster and I've burnt Trish and have no option for Quasar, I'm toast. If Raigeki and Trish are gone and I face something that can't be destroyed by battle, I'm also toast.

It's kind of hard to explain. Doesn't help that I'm keno-acidotic right now.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:59 PM   #5164
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1. What two Synchros would be powerful enough to sit on as two-mat materials?

I cant say without knowing what levels you typically go into: usually the good stuff is level 7 / 8 though.

2. What would be considered "essential" defensive cards?

Depends on how you want to play. Handtraps are typically Maxx "C" / Ghost Ash / Ghost Ogre (Effect Veiler hasn't been run in a while, probably because even if the effect goes off Ghost Ogre is still more disruptive). Ghost Ash has become a 3 of in a lot of decks, and I'm pretty sure it stops Maxx "C". Solemn Strike is, as always, pretty broken.

EDIT:
Quote:
Maxx "C": When your opponent activates the effect of "Maxx "C"", the effect of "Ghost Ash & Spring Flowers" can be activated in a Chain. In that case, since the effect of "Maxx "C"" is negated, even if you Special Summon a monster that turn, the effect "this turn, each time your opponent Special Summons a monster(s), immediately draw 1 card." is not applied.[11]
Looks like konami answered that question!

3. What about "essential" removal cards?

Raigeki and Twin Twisters I would probably say. Kaijus are highly recommended. It's hard to say: TCG is a lot more tightfisted than OCG is about card data and a lot of OCG removal is like, Harpie's.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:00 PM   #5165
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Quote:
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I cant say without knowing what levels you typically go into: usually the good stuff is level 7 / 8 though.
I can pop out anything from Level 7 - Level 9, and really I could also make most XYZs in that spectrum too (Rank 4+). One of those monsters tends to be Omega. The problem is something like Crystal Wing or Clear Wing are not good enough in my view to sit on. Too many card effects have activation, grave, or floater effects, so it's easy to get baited out.

2. What would be considered "essential" defensive cards?

Quote:
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Depends on how you want to play. Handtraps are typically Maxx "C" / Ghost Ash / Ghost Ogre (Effect Veiler hasn't been run in a while, probably because even if the effect goes off Ghost Ogre is still more disruptive). Ghost Ash has become a 3 of in a lot of decks, and I'm pretty sure it stops Maxx "C". Solemn Strike is, as always, pretty broken.
I won't run any of the Level 3 Tuner monsters because they're useless for anything except as a hand trap. I don't have E-Teleport to summon them, they result in odd levels and don't trigger Doppelwarrior summons, and they can't be summoned from the grave by Junk Synchron. Even Droll & Lock Bird, Swift Scarecrow have more utility just because I can make a Level 4 monster after going into them.

The main reason I'm running Effect Veiler isn't because it negates effects, but because it can be discarded to the graveyard to set up Junk Synchron.

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Raigeki and Twin Twisters I would probably say. Kaijus are highly recommended. It's hard to say: TCG is a lot more tightfisted than OCG is about card data and a lot of OCG removal is like, Harpie's.
Well, Raigeki was one of the cards I was willing to remove. But that helps a bit. So there's only one swing spot as far as my tech goes.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:35 PM   #5166
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Quote:
I can pop out anything from Level 7 - Level 9, and really I could also make most XYZs in that spectrum too (Rank 4+). One of those monsters tends to be Omega. The problem is something like Crystal Wing or Clear Wing are not good enough in my view to sit on. Too many card effects have activation, grave, or floater effects, so it's easy to get baited out.
The best field I could say is probably...Omega + Dweller? You're still going to run into an issue with Raigeki but I think you're going to have that issue anyways. A lot of the strong floodgate monsters are either Rank 4 or much higher ranks (8, 9, 10) and the defensive stuff in between can be hard to access. I don't think you have the ability to go into Bahamut Shark easily otherwise my answer there would be simple.

Quote:
I won't run any of the Level 3 Tuner monsters because they're useless for anything except as a hand trap. I don't have E-Teleport to summon them, they result in odd levels and don't trigger Doppelwarrior summons, and they can't be summoned from the grave by Junk Synchron. Even Droll & Lock Bird, Swift Scarecrow have more utility just because I can make a Level 4 monster after going into them.

The main reason I'm running Effect Veiler isn't because it negates effects, but because it can be discarded to the graveyard to set up Junk Synchron.
I mean, most decks now are simply running these cards for their hand-trap value. They aren't run for the fact of being level 3 tuners; they're being run for the fact that they are very effective hand-traps. Very few decks are running Synchros right now. Whether that's because they can afford the room for the cards is something I don't know. I do think you should consider at least one of Ghost Ash or Droll and Lock Bird for usage against Maxx "C". There's going to be very little reason for Maxx "C" not to be run in pretty much every single deck once Raging Tempest hits, and disabling Maxx "C" for even a turn means you aren't truly minusing. Maxx "C" is hard OPT.

You may also want to run Dimensional Barrier, but because its a trap its a lot more vulnerable to cards like TwTw. Konami's response to "mah backrow" seems to be "hand traps or really broken traps" which is worrying but *shrug*.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:38 PM   #5167
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Total destruction:



It only happened due to a lucky Level Eater draw, but otherwise this is the kind of end-state my game aims to accomplish. I did not draw Raigeki, but did draw the other swing tech which in this case is Swords of Concealing Light. There's one Effect Veiler and three Twin Twisters. Not to mention the intimidating Durendal + Dark Law floodgate alliance.

The levels I hit in this game: 2,3,4,5,8,9, and Rank 5. So I can pretty much make anything I want, especially with Level Eater and a big monster out. I just need something like Dark Law, powerful enough to floodgate the opponent or else provide continuous negation.

Cosmic Blazar Dragon fits that bill, but it's hampered by being a 3 mat material. So maybe main deck bosses like BLS would be helpful, but I have forgotten where to start.
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Old 01-26-2017, 11:51 PM   #5168
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Quote:
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The best field I could say is probably...Omega + Dweller? You're still going to run into an issue with Raigeki but I think you're going to have that issue anyways. A lot of the strong floodgate monsters are either Rank 4 or much higher ranks (8, 9, 10) and the defensive stuff in between can be hard to access. I don't think you have the ability to go into Bahamut Shark easily otherwise my answer there would be simple.
I can swap out Omega for Stardust Dragon, but the real value with Omega is in its attack power and grave recycle, not so much its blink effect. Trishula, Dark Law do immense amounts of permanent hand damage so Omega is really more an accessory. But I haven't had trouble with Raigeki lately - the main reason I swapped out Stardust Dragon was because Durendal has the coverage against Normal Spells. Although, that's mostly academic as when I have Durendal out I just use it to wreak hand havoc.

Bahamut Shark is doable due to the Level 4 Cystron Tuner. But Bahamut Shark + Toadally Awesome is really Extra Deck intensive and I can't realistically incorporate that combo.

Quote:
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I mean, most decks now are simply running these cards for their hand-trap value. They aren't run for the fact of being level 3 tuners; they're being run for the fact that they are very effective hand-traps. Very few decks are running Synchros right now. Whether that's because they can afford the room for the cards is something I don't know. I do think you should consider at least one of Ghost Ash or Droll and Lock Bird for usage against Maxx "C". There's going to be very little reason for Maxx "C" not to be run in pretty much every single deck once Raging Tempest hits, and disabling Maxx "C" for even a turn means you aren't truly minusing. Maxx "C" is hard OPT.
I don't have the space for just traps. Literally only two slots of my deck are devoted to removal/defense, everything else is either monsters or draw cards. Hence why I need stronger bosses to really cope for special fields, since main deck answers aren't going to happen.

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You may also want to run Dimensional Barrier, but because its a trap its a lot more vulnerable to cards like TwTw. Konami's response to "mah backrow" seems to be "hand traps or really broken traps" which is worrying but *shrug*.
I have it in my side deck, but with my deck buying a turn isn't really as important as buying a hand. Vanity's and the Paleozoic card are the other two traps I've considered for use.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:04 AM   #5169
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>lawnmowing infernoids are falling out of style in the OCG

ma babies no ;;
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Old 01-31-2017, 10:03 AM   #5170
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Gahahaha, good!

Why?
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Old 01-31-2017, 10:58 AM   #5171
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I blame Zoodiacs.

Also because Ghost Ash exists probably and chaining Ghost Ash to Left Arm Offering is scoop.
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Old 01-31-2017, 11:23 AM   #5172
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I finally beat a deck with Exodia.

It took me until my last three draws to complete the Exodia hand. I was stalled because he was running Heralds, but I summoned Dark Law on the second turn when I saw Perfection come down, and Dark Law (x2) was able to stall out Herald of Perfection until I drew Exodia.
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Old 02-01-2017, 04:48 PM   #5173
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Nice.




I love playing Infernoids™
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:03 AM   #5174
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New banlist maaaadaaaaaaa?
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Old 02-02-2017, 11:44 AM   #5175
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This is really why I don't like unscheduled banlists. In all seriousness expect a banlist a week after RATE drops and they feel the need to nuke Zoodiacs.
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