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Old 04-29-2017, 01:54 PM   #26
Altocharizard55
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This system fails spectacularly to handle conditional votes.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:05 PM   #27
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C is close enough to A that I don't mind. A would be strictly better than C for me.

Conditional voting gets too complicated, though we could easily research real-world election systems which make it as easy as possible and implement one of them if that is something which is important to you and to other members. But it's enough of a headache when only one person is saying "ABE if B; else, ABC if not F; else, DEF." Now if twenty people start saying different versions of that ... @[email protected] I imagine we can find something online that is ready to use for us, though, if that is a real issue. Everyone submits their ballots to Jeri in a very specific way, Jeri then copy-pastes those ballots into the text field on the website that has this voting system set up for public use, and then hits Submit once all the ballots are pasted in.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:12 PM   #28
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>Concerning the "out of the running" sentence

The issue was raised about whether we wanted to elect a team of mods who were good in the long run; respectable and able to perform day-to-day tasks, or a team who can quickly focus on building FB back up. The majority decided that the latter was more important and then questioned whether MM and Rue's assets would be fit for that team. There is no denying that either of them would perform extremely well in the 'long run' team but because the focus was on the short term rebuilding aspect it was proposed that MM and Rue would be added on later as a mod. The focus thereafter would have been on the other five nominees. It's my mistake for calling them 'out of the running' when a more appropriate term would have been 'benched' for the time being.

I feel it's important to note here that this was no unilateral decision. Both MM and Rue have posted in the 'FB Mod Election - Phase 2' thread that they agreed with the sentiment and thought it was best that they would join up later after most of the rebuilding was done. If either of them come out now disagreeing with the statement then I'm willing to re-open that discussion and consider them again.

I believe Snorby raised his question, in part, because of the sentiment you described. Because it seems like MM and Rue are being overlooked now, he's asking us to what extent we're going to continue working with them and what our plans are for bringing them on board as moderators later on. I don't believe any nominee has outright stated that they're planning to never promote MM or Rue as a mod - in fact, most seem to agree that at least one of them WILL be brought on some time in the future.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:17 PM   #29
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I feel two candidates have been glossed over largely in discussion lately. Therefore, I pose this to all candidates:

Please discuss your thoughts on both Lit and Rue individually. You are to look for and discuss strengths that are specific to them, that you find other candidates perhaps lacking.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:59 PM   #30
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Actually it's more option D. If any single candidate in the proposed team of three is voted out, the mods have to reconvene and make a new team of three. That can include those that had approval botes, and can even include the one that was voted for with disapproval, it's a complete reset not a partial one. This is mostly to make sure that the finalized team is one that works.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:01 PM   #31
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(That's basically what I thought option B was, but I misread the Talon post oops.)

Also, I pointed it out elsewhere, but if you're going to pick X candidate over Y candidate specifically, you should be properly contrasting the two. That is, explain what skillsets you feel the person you support has that the person you do not lacks, or some other discriminating factor. Otherwise, said discretionary posts become a lot less helpful for discussion. Explicit reasoning is key, IMO.
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Old 04-29-2017, 05:10 PM   #32
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Please discuss your thoughts on both Lit and Rue individually. You are to look for and discuss strengths that are specific to them, that you find other candidates perhaps lacking.
Very well.

Rue - To put it plainly, I feel like Rue has a strong talent for seeing through bullshit, but only calling people on it when it's necessary. He's polite but intelligent, which I feel are two strong mod qualities. I respect those who are strong observers - who think before they act - and I feel Rue is that way. Real life apparently has been getting in the way for him recently, so he hasn't been able to contribute to a lot of our discussions, which is rough. I feel he would have really stood out as a candidate if he hadn't been unlucky in this regard. I still support him as a candidate, and would be very happy to work with him.

Lit - As I mentioned previously, Lit provided a great deal of assistance in the formation of the RP forums, and also was a driving force in the FB Proposal. He is a strong creative force. Unfortunately, it has been said before that creativity, while a wonderful trait for a ZA or an SO, may not be what we're looking for out of the modship if the community are the ones expected to propose ideas. I think that's part of where the "overlooked" sense is coming from - that the traits he brings to the table are better suited for other jobs in the community.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:46 PM   #33
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I've really been debating whether or not to interject here because 90% of my knowledge of FB is people bitching about the old mods, but I actually have a fair amount of experience when it comes to running/leading internet communities/organizations, and other RL leadership experience. I've been passively observing because I'm genuinely interested in how you all do this as... well basically as players remodeling a game for yourselves. And the selection of moderators is interesting in comparing what an experienced mod would look for compared to a standard player. But, I have two (more or less) things to suggest as foods for thought.

1)

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calm, reassuring presences in times of great chaos and uncertainty. They are consistent, dependable and reasonable people with a long FB track record. I have discussed a number of the changes FB has faced over the years with them, and I trust in their judgment. I would be happy to work with either or both of them
This is, in my opinion, an excellent description of the base expectations of a moderator. It's been well established that finding a candidate (let alone three) who aces all requisites is hard af. ASB is lucky to have a Jeri. FB does not have one (yet!). But each candidate needs to have a baseline competency in the required skills, and this is a damn good job description. If there is part of this description that you doubt in one of the candidates, then that's something considerable. You can outsource a lot of things. Hell, you're outsourcing a lot of the development already by doing it as a community. But you can't outsource temperament and sound judgement.

The bit about a good work dynamic is crucial and, while it's being talked about, I just can't stress enough that your mods need to have a good working relationship. You guys know all too well how important it is for mods to have the respect of the community. But man... if your leadership team has friction and are butting heads, that is disastrous. I've seen major rifts come about from leadership drama. Luckily, you all are friends with each other, so it won't be hard at all to get three personalities that mesh. But really take it seriously if you're not sure how well two people would get along as coworkers, even if they get along fine socially.

The one thing I think is left out from that quote, though, is assertiveness. Certainly not aggressiveness (it's one helluva difference, one that - from what I heard - the former admins had trouble with when they actually did communicate), but a leader needs to be able to assertively communicate when necessary. If a call needs to be made, you want your administrative team to be able to make that call appropriately, and absolutely be able to communicate it effectively. If one of the candidates is only okay at this, that's acceptable, but make sure you have at least one A grade to be the face. Preferably two. (Judging by the Marion/Emi combo, I think you've got that under lock).

2)

One thing I'd like to point out is, well, three is an arbitrary number you decided on as a start point. It's a sensible one, sure, but it's not set in stone. If you have four excellent candidates, to the point where there is a broad agreement that you'd want one of them as a fourth mod later on, why not make four now?

I realize this could unravel into the basket of worms where we could get "why not all seven because we have seven candidates we like" or whatever, which would obviously be a disaster. But there seems to be a consensus that Rue/MM are outclassed candidates for actually rebuilding FB, but would be much better at keeping it running once you've sorted it out, and a big part of the concern is prior experience. Since everybody also thinks that they are the type of people who are agreeable and wouldn't be a hindrance to any team... well would it not make sense to make Rue and MM mods now so that they can gain the experience but, just as importantly, be in position to administrate once you all have (as a community) redesigned the game?

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Again, don't know FB that much and Rue and MM could easily be huge benefits to actually running FB without having to deal with the added pressure/responsibility of being the formal moderators.

But, if at the end of the line, you are deciding between two and feel that both would be a good fit (and even a good fit together), well, why not both?

This is only relevant because there's a fair amount of statements about people being great as a fourth mod later on. If you think you could use a fourth mod and have people you think would be good for it... consider having a separate vote as a "do you want so and so as a fourth mod".
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:01 PM   #34
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So I do want to respond to Stealthy's second point here, as I pretty much made the system. The thing is that this is supposed to be a genuinely hard choice, and as much of a roadblock as necessary. The reason it was narrowed down to three is because honestly three is all you really ever need to run a game like this (a point Jeri has stated while reiterating that if a fourth mod is added later it would need to be for a very good reason).

The point of "add a fourth later" was never a guarantee, and only a way to help narrow down the list in the nature of "what do we need right now and for the coming times?" The fourth mod issue is one of crossing a bridge when we come to it, nothing more, and it was purposefully brought forward as a point to see how others would deal with prioritization problems. As you can see right now there is a lot to sift through in the ways of rules, and we need to make sure our moderation team is able to deal with knowing when things should hit the back burner and when things should be pushed forward even if it's not necessarily perfect. Because at the end of the day everyone just wants to get back to playing the RP they love, and if that means making tweaks later for the sake of having something that at the very least functions right now, so be it.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:45 PM   #35
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Alright, yeah, that all makes sense. Don't need one don't get one.
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