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Old 12-11-2011, 01:12 PM   #301
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=/ I feel really awkward now since this was the first epsode I even noticed/praised the animation too. I was too absorbed by the dialogue/action for the most part to even perceive the flaws. ^^; Rather, I noticed they were different, but didn't consider them as necessarily off. Kinda afraid to re-watch it now after hearing all the backlash, as I'll probably find myself looking for/getting distracted by those blemishes.

I don't care what other people say, I still consider this episode 9/10 material - if not 10/10. =< I was skeptical up until now, but I'm finally starting to believe it when Talon fans loudly claim Fate/Zero is a "Masterpiece". XP
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:22 PM   #302
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I didn't really notice any animation gaffes because it was an exposition episode, and the previous one with Rin an exploratory/adventure one. I'm going to dismiss MAL's attitude just because it's the same community that rates Steins;Gate as one of anime's all-time family classics.

Actually, I probably forgot to mention this, but the Rin episode was ripped right out of Chaos;Head. That creepy/atmospheric approach is extraordinarily similar to the C;H's game rendition of Takumi walking down the dark alleys of dreamworld Shibuya. It was probably Nitro+ service over anything else, much less loli.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:46 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
Hmm basically I gotta play the game before jumping into everything else? But you said it takes like 100 hours x_x By the time I'd be done with that I would be watching this new anime alone lol. I wonder if it'd even run on my ancient PC. I'll look up those requirements and install stuffs before deciding on anything. As for the spinoffs I didn't realize there were so many! I was only refering to Fate/Extra which released in north america last month.
Don't worry, you're not alone. Currently searching through the thread for any signs of finding the game from a liable source. Pretty sure we're in the same boat, as I've only seen the anime and Carnival Phantasm.

Archive binge commence!
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:11 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by XanderKetsu View Post
Don't worry, you're not alone. Currently searching through the thread for any signs of finding the game from a liable source. Pretty sure we're in the same boat, as I've only seen the anime and Carnival Phantasm.

Archive binge commence!
This is probably what you're looking for.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:44 AM   #305
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Food for thought?

People have been singling out this screenshot from the last F/Z episode. Looks familiar? That gent's attire resembles remarkably like a tie, and his attire is noticeable at odds with the Greek phalangites. He could be taken for a priest, or a mage.

Spoiler: show

I find it interesting that Lord El-Melloi has the same style hair/face. It's also curious given what Waver says in his conversation with Gilgamesh at the end of F/Z.

We already have a precedent for the future influencing the past, since Heroic Spirits live outside of the boundaries of time, so one has to wonder...
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:07 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Food for thought?
MAJOR spoilers for Yuki. She has no idea who the guy you hyperlinked even is. Would delete that reference altogether if I were you, not to mention putting the rest into a spoiler box.

Yuki, DON'T READ.
Spoiler: show
I've read similar stuff but I reject it pretty thoroughly. Iskandar specifically says that:
(1) these guys are all Heroic Spirits
(2) these guys can be summoned by Ionioi Hetairoi because they co-experienced the desert sands of the Middle East alongside Iskandar

Waver never goes to the Middle East with Iskandar. Thus Waver never has an opportunity to co-experience it with Iskandar. Even if they visited, they would not be co-experiencing "the happiness and sorrow" that Iskandar's men experienced on that battlefield. They'd be going as tourists or explorers at best. It wouldn't have the same impact and therefore isn't enough to induct Waver into the Ionian army.

I also reject the idea that Waver might become a heroic spirit. The logic here seems to be "Waver was a badass in a Grail War; therefore, totally Heroic Spirit material." Umm, no? To qualify as a Heroic Spirit, you have to be somebody history recognizes. Somebody the world knows. Even if many of Iskandar's Heroic Spirits are nameless Rank E spirits, they're still part of the collective known as "the army of Alexander the Great." And the entire world knows who they are collectively. And recognizes that they were an amazing force. So even the nameless guys in the army get to show up. Never mind the generals who, in classic Takeuchi style, get the full Takeuchi treatment and have distinct Type-Moon style character designs. Among them being this guy who everyone is claiming might be Waver. Um, no. Shirou became a Heroic Spirit because he quite literally saved the world: in Fate and UBW, he delays the rebirth of Angra Mainyu; and in HF, he outright ends the threat by destroying him in utero (so to speak). As in the NasuVerse, we are told point blank -- via Archer and his story -- that the world came to know who Shirou was. His was not a story known only to a few select magi in Fuyuki City and the Clocktower in London, no: his was a story eventually known to all the world. The same does not look likely for Waver Velvet nor for any of the other magi who participated in the 4th Holy Grail War.

A third reason I reject this fan speculation is because, in my opinion, the two don't bear enough of a physical resemblance for me to believe, "Yes, El Melloi is that guy." Compare how El Melloi looks with how the general looks in the anime with how the general looks in the book:

El Melloi II
general in the anime
general in the book (third from the right)

The guy in the anime looks identical to the one in the book. Neither of them looks identical to Waver. ufotable had the opportunity to make the guy in the anime look more like Waver if they had wanted. QED, it's not Waver because (1) it doesn't look enough like him and (2) ufotable had the chance to make him look like it had they wanted to but they didn't. Yes, they look similar. No, I don't think they bear what you'd call a "striking resemblance" which strongly suggests that they're the same person.

For me to be convinced that this theory is true, I'd have to hear it from Gen's or Nasu's lips himself. Guess we'll just have to see. Throwing it out there right now that I'm not going to like it one bit if this theory proves to be true because of the first two reasons I mentioned in my three-part argument above.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:19 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Yuki, DON'T READ.
Spoiler: show

(1) these guys are all Heroic Spirits
(2) these guys can be summoned by Ionioi Hetairoi because they co-experienced the desert sands of the Middle East alongside Iskandar
I wouldn't take these postulates as facts.

Spoiler: show
The anime's text is lifted from the novel, and Urobuchi inter-changes "Servant" with "Heroic Spirit" pretty frequently in this segment. Anime Waver calls the army "Servants", but this line is actually spoken by the novel narrator. It's important to note that Heroic Spirits are legends held in the Throne of Heroes, while Servants are a pseudo-reincarnation that use Heroic Spirits as a template to create super premium familiars. The terms are not equivalent.

Iskander doesn't have the power of Heaven's Feel to create Servants, nor does he have the ability to reincarnate Heroic Spirits. So, I think of it as these warriors are part of Iskander's legend. Or basically, their names are part of his "profile" in the Throne.

I can't go much into it beyond this. We obviously didn't get to see the faces of the army in the novel, so I didn't think about it at all when the episode aired, but Waver's last line to Gilgamesh is pretty telling.


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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show

Waver never goes to the Middle East with Iskandar. Thus Waver never has an opportunity to co-experience it with Iskandar. Even if they visited, they would not be co-experiencing "the happiness and sorrow" that Iskandar's men experienced on that battlefield. They'd be going as tourists or explorers at best. It wouldn't have the same impact and therefore isn't enough to induct Waver into the Ionian army.
Spoiler: show
That neglects the Holy Grail War itself, where Waver and Iskander are fighting side by side. It's not the "true" Iskander, but when a Servant dies, some information returns to the Throne of Heroes, so the legend can grow in ways beyond "humanity's perception" shaping the details of the hero's story.


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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show

I also reject the idea that Waver might become a heroic spirit. The logic here seems to be "Waver was a badass in a Grail War; therefore, totally Heroic Spirit material." Umm, no? To qualify as a Heroic Spirit, you have to be somebody history recognizes. Somebody the world knows. Even if many of Iskandar's Heroic Spirits are nameless Rank E spirits, they're still part of the collective known as "the army of Alexander the Great." And the entire world knows who they are collectively. And recognizes that they were an amazing force. So even the nameless guys in the army get to show up. Never mind the generals who, in classic Takeuchi style, get the full Takeuchi treatment and have distinct Type-Moon style character designs. Among them being this guy who everyone is claiming might be Waver. Um, no. Shirou became a Heroic Spirit because he quite literally saved the world: in Fate and UBW, he delays the rebirth of Angra Mainyu; and in HF, he outright ends the threat by destroying him in utero (so to speak). As in the NasuVerse, we are told point blank -- via Archer and his story -- that the world came to know who Shirou was. His was not a story known only to a few select magi in Fuyuki City and the Clocktower in London, no: his was a story eventually known to all the world. The same does not look likely for Waver Velvet nor for any of the other magi who participated in the 4th Holy Grail War.
Spoiler: show
I completely agree, Waver isn't Heroic Spirit material. But again, this argument pivots on the assumption that Iskander's army comprises of "Heroic Spirits", and Urobuchi is pretty casual with that term. I have no idea if he's using "eirei" with capitals or informally, as if to say "they were all heroes" in reference to the army.

Just my opinion - Heroic Spirits have Noble Phantasms. Iskander's army is quite bereft of them. I've talked about Iskander and Archer teaming up for this reason - Emiya can forge weapons for the army, weapons they *might* be able to use the special abilities of, making it the most formidable army in the modern and ancient world. It would have an edge over a GoB powered Ionion Hetairoi, as presumably Iskander's warriors wouldn't know how to unlock the abilities latent in Gil's weapons.

Iskander addresses the obvious when he talks to Gilgamesh later - "If my army were armed by your Gate of Babylon, we could even overcome that President of the West!".

I take this to mean that they don't have special weapons of their own. Unless we're talking about fighting Heracles, normal weapons wielded by super-humans would still be effective even against Servants with Noble Phantasms, unless those NPs were specifically "Anti-Fortress" or "Anti-Army".


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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show

A third reason I reject this fan speculation is because, in my opinion, the two don't bear enough of a physical resemblance for me to believe, "Yes, El Melloi is that guy." Compare how El Melloi looks with how the general looks in the anime with how the general looks in the book:

El Melloi II
general in the anime
general in the book (third from the right)

The guy in the anime looks identical to the one in the book. Neither of them looks identical to Waver. ufotable had the opportunity to make the guy in the anime look more like Waver if they had wanted. QED, it's not Waver because (1) it doesn't look enough like him and (2) ufotable had the chance to make him look like it had they wanted to but they didn't. Yes, they look similar. No, I don't think they bear what you'd call a "striking resemblance" which strongly suggests that they're the same person.
Spoiler: show

I had never seen the book image you posted before, that's pretty curious. But the image is low quality, so I don't see how you could extrapolate "the book general looks exactly like the anime general". He's lightly detailed, and hidden in the back. Yeah, the clothes are the same, but if we exchange clothes between the three...the temptation is strong with this one.

I do think there could have been more subtle hints thrown in if the animators really wanted to swing that way - like putting Waver's command spells as the design on the priest/mage's sashes - but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's not Waver.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:56 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I wouldn't take these postulates as facts.

Spoiler: show
The anime's text is lifted from the novel, and Urobuchi inter-changes "Servant" with "Heroic Spirit" pretty frequently in this segment. Anime Waver calls the army "Servants", but this line is actually spoken by the novel narrator. It's important to note that Heroic Spirits are legends held in the Throne of Heroes, while Servants are a pseudo-reincarnation that use Heroic Spirits as a template to create super premium familiars. The terms are not equivalent.

Iskander doesn't have the power of Heaven's Feel to create Servants, nor does he have the ability to reincarnate Heroic Spirits. So, I think of it as these warriors are part of Iskander's legend. Or basically, their names are part of his "profile" in the Throne.

I can't go much into it beyond this. We obviously didn't get to see the faces of the army in the novel, so I didn't think about it at all when the episode aired, but Waver's last line to Gilgamesh is pretty telling.
Even if the terms are not interchangeable, my understanding is that only a Heroic Spirit or a lower spirit passing for a Heroic Spirit can be summoned as a Servant. Yuki-safe:
Spoiler: show
An example of the former famously includes Gilgamesh while an example of the latter famously involves Assassin.

In other words, you can't summon Joe Schmoe as Joe Schmoe as a servant. You can summon Joe Schmoe as Epic Dude, and you can summon Epic Dude as Epic Dude, but you can't summon Joe Schmoe as Joe Schmoe. Hence the seeming interchangeability of the two terms, even if they refer to strictly different concepts. (E.g. it would be wrong to call you know who a "Heroic Spirit", technically, but at the same time he's very much so standing in for someone who is quite legendary.)

In any event, I actually agree with you about the whole "they're more a part of Rider's summon than they are separately-summoned entities," and I actually discussed this with Yuki on Skype. In brief ... Yuki-safe:
Spoiler: show
The anime sits on the fence and refuses to really tell us, one way or the other, whether these are the actual Heroic Spirits summoned from the Throne of Heroes or whether they're figments from Rider's memory and are more like a "ghost-army," an army of the dead and of memories locked away in Rider's brain, than they are a living army in the here and now fighting once more for their master.

I don't know if this in the book or how it jives with your personal interpretation of Throne of Heroes physics or not, but the episode clearly made a point of saying that even a mount can itself be considered a Heroic Spirit (as opposed to be considered a Noble Phantasm) if the mount was sufficiently legendary. I thought this was kind of interesting, though I'd feel pretty bad for the master who happened to summon a steed instead of a warrior. ^^;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Spoiler: show
That neglects the Holy Grail War itself, where Waver and Iskander are fighting side by side. It's not the "true" Iskander, but when a Servant dies, some information returns to the Throne of Heroes, so the legend can grow in ways beyond "humanity's perception" shaping the details of the hero's story.
I didn't neglect it at all. In fact, did you not grasp what I was implying when I specifically spoke of:
Spoiler: show
the two of them doing stuff together in the Middle East now which would then lock Waver in as a candidate?

I'm well aware that the present and even the future can shape the profile for a Heroic Spirit's template in the Throne of Heroes. But I'm specifically saying that, at least according to the anime (if not also the book; can check later if you're adamant about this) that:
Spoiler: show
the Ioniai Hetairoi specifically requires that the spirits summoned/projected/whatever served alongside Alexander in his Ionian campaign. The phantasm is not a "let me summon all my allies" phantasm as you seem to suppose it is. The anime tells us that it's a "let me summon all who waged war with me in Ionia" phantasm. Now, you could say that this is already wrong since we saw some Indians amongst Rider's forces, but the implication in both name and in the anime's exposition seems quite clear and leaves little room for debate: the summoned spirits all waged war with him in his original campaign and not that they were people he'd known throughout all of history.

I dunno. We may just be butting fanboy heads here in terms of how we each like to interpret what this noble phantasm might mean. If you really want to insist that it summons anyone who fought alongside Iskandar irrespective of where or when they fought alongside him, I'll look to the book and see what it has to say.


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Spoiler: show
I completely agree, Waver isn't Heroic Spirit material. But again, this argument pivots on the assumption that Iskander's army comprises of "Heroic Spirits", and Urobuchi is pretty casual with that term. I have no idea if he's using "eirei" with capitals or informally, as if to say "they were all heroes" in reference to the army.
Well, it looks like we should look at the book. If you know where I can find Japanese copies of Books 1-6 (as opposed to the English copies of books 1-4), that'd be great. Preferably PDF so I can try and Ctrl+F the word 英霊 eirei, but it's okay if they're JPGs, I'll just look at the page where the explanation was made in the corresponding English fan translation. I say Books 1-6 because, as they're newer, they can be thought of as "2nd Editions" and can be counted upon to have made any corrections in the text which fans brought to Nasu's attention and which Nasu in term brought to Gen's and the publisher's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Spoiler: show
I had never seen the book image you posted before, that's pretty curious.
Spoiler: show
I wasn't sure if it was from a fan booklet or what until recently, but now I'm pretty confident that it (and other images I have) are full-color pages from the new versions of the books, i.e. Books 1-6 (as opposed to the original 1-4). The fact that it looks like it's from a book (with that centerfold crease), is clearly official Type-Moon art, and has that excerpt from the chapter ... it all reminds one very much of the color pages one typically finds at the start of most light novels.

Tell you what. I'm going to try and look for the new books. But if you already have them or know where I can find them, let me know.

Last edited by Talon87; 12-14-2011 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 12-14-2011, 12:23 PM   #309
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I have a source. Just let me confirm it's safe.

OK, the segment covered in the last episode starts at Page 348. It's not .pdf, sadly.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:20 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I have a source. Just let me confirm it's safe.

OK, the segment covered in the last episode starts at Page 348. It's not .pdf, sadly.
Spoiler: show
On page 369, Waver says 「こいつら...一騎一騎がサーヴァントだ...」 or "These guys ... each and every last one of them is a Servant."

Also on page 369, the original text says that Iskandar is Waver's Servant (as does the BakaTsuki English) but in that very same sentence they do call him 英霊イスカンダル or Heroic Spirit Iskandar. Not relevant to our discussion, but just thought I'd bring it up as an illustration of how many little things may have been tweaked or dropped in the English translation process.

Here's Iskandar's mini-speech that he gives leading up to the declaration of his Reality Marble's name (page 369):
肉体は滅び、その魂は英霊として『世界』に召し上げられて、
それでもなお余に忠義する伝説の勇者たち。
時空を越えて我が召喚に応じる永遠の朋友たち。
彼らの絆こそ我が至宝!!我が王道!!
イスカンダルたる余が誇る最強宝具ー
『王の軍勢アイオニオンヘタイロイ』なり!!
Not going to translate all of it, but you can see in the first line where he mentions the bodies turning to dust (肉体は滅び) he follows this up by saying that their souls, as heroic spirits, are summoned by the world (その魂は英霊として『世界』に召し上げられて). This appears to have been completely reinterpreted in the BakaTsuki translation as "but their spirits hear my call!" Since this is the point of contention, I should probably translate it bit by bit for your satisfaction and/or use in discussions with others. Spaces indicate the breaks we'll be using:
その魂 は 英霊 として 『世界』 に 召し上げられて
その魂: those souls
は: wa (the topic marker particle)
英霊: eirei, Heroic Spirits
として: as
***Thus, その魂は英霊として reads "Those souls, as Heroic Spirits,".
『世界』: sekai, world in quotation marks
に: ni (a prepositional particle with many uses; here, it indicates by what agent the souls were summoned [see next line])
召し上げられて: meshi agerarete. Meshi ageru 召し上げる means several things. In this context, it means to summon or call forth. The verb tense here is passive (meshi ageru --> meshi agerareru) and thus means "to be summoned by" rather than to be the one doing the actual summoning. The fact that it ends in -te simply means that it's the verb of a dependent clause.
*** Thus, 『世界』に召し上げられて reads "summoned/called forth by [that which is called] 'the world'."
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know whether this implies in Japanese as is, or if it's implicit given earlier lines of Iskander's, that he's referring to himself when he says "the world." Is he the world? Or does he mean the planet is what summoned the army? Why put it in quotation marks? So maybe BakaTsuki is right about saying "they heard my call" (even if that's a very loose translation) rather than saying "they heard the planet's call." But no matter how you look at it, they totally omitted the bit about eirei toshite or "as Heroic Spirits."

EDIT: Should mention that on page 372 (after the picture), at the very bottom of the page, they refer to them as eirei Heroic Spirits once again. In the BakaTsuki translation, this term is preserved but written in casual lower case as "heroic spirits" in the sentence "the peerless array of heroic spirits gathered here were only heard reverently in legends."

EDIT: Oh yeah. Page 373 is constantly calling them 英霊たち or "the Heroic Spirits."

Last edited by Talon87; 12-14-2011 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:44 PM   #311
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This is probably what you're looking for.
Thank you! Saved a lot of mindless reading trying not to spoil one's self. So, I downloaded it... Using Bit Torrent... 100%... What now?
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>that moment when you hear your female roommates get back and realize you have to put on pants

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Or...do you?
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:03 PM   #312
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I can't download it because of space concerns, but look at the Readme. Typically, you load the .img, .ccd or .iso file into a virtual drive like Daemon Tools, and you either install it in Japanese, or the English patch installs it for you once you've loaded the disk and launch the .exe.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:14 PM   #313
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If you don't know what a virtual drive is, it's software that tricks your computer into thinking you have extra drives of whatever kinds you'd like it to think -- usually optical media drives so that, in turn, you can load .iso files (the raw data rips of optical discs) into the virtual drive and have your computer mistakenly believe that you just put a physical DVD into a physical DVD-ROM disc tray.

You'll need this software to install pretty much any .iso. Your only other option, a lesser option, is to spend one disc per .iso and to burn the blank DVDs as image discs. In this particular case, that's less preferred because (in addition to other reasons) you have additional files besides the .isos that you're going to want to have handy while installing the game. It's generally better to do the installation via virtual drive. Fewer optical discs spent on backing up the data and everything on hand right where you need it when you need it.

Virtual drive softwares include:
Daemon Tools
Alcohol 120%

Both used to be free, then Alcohol went Paying Customers Only (more or less), and now both of them have (more or less). But you should be able to use Daemon Tools Lite just fine. That's what I use (@ WinXP SP3) and I like it.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:07 PM   #314
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Both used to be free, then Alcohol went Paying Customers Only (more or less), and now both of them have (more or less). But you should be able to use Daemon Tools Lite just fine. That's what I use (@ WinXP SP3) and I like it.
I use Alcohol 52%, which is more or less the freeware version, since my anti-virus software has issues with Daemon Tools. It's an option in case the latter doesn't work out for you.

Watched episode 12 before heading home. Not much to say this time, since it was mostly exposition. A lot of little tie-ins to FSN though that you'll definitely appreciate more after playing the game.

Spoiler: show
I chuckled at the image of Kiritsugu doing something so plain as eating a hamburger while he strategizes. Guess a cold-blooded killing machine needs to eat too. I also liked how crushing the wrapper at the thought of Caster kidnapping more innocent children subtly showed his true emotions.

Cute to see Iri visit Shirou's future home. Depressing to think she and her daughter won't get to live there, especially this was apparently her dream. =( Kind of an eerie moment for Saber too. I wonder if she sensed some kind of premonition, given that she seemed to space out in the shed. (I realized what this place must be as soon as they mentioned a storehouse in the garden.) Plus we got a cameo shot of the same angle used in the iconic image of summoned Saber standing over Shirou. Wonder if she even recognized where she was at that time. "Are you my Master?" indeed.

I kinda felt bad for Kirei during his talk with Gilgamesh, knowing what I do about his true feelings and how much he has previously been trying to deny them. Hearing him call Gil a "monster" was both awkwardly laughable and a bit painful considering what he himself eventually becomes. One wonders who he's really referring to. One might also want to blame Gil for being the one to convince him to give in to his twisted desires and lead him down the path of sin... Though that's probably giving the King of Heroes too much credit.

It was surprising to learn Kirei has a subconscious interest in Kariya though. Even more surprising that there was hardly any mention of Kiritsugu on his end, nor did Gil remark on any latent animosity or even curiosity towards him. Does Kirei empathize with Kariya because they're both irrevocably mad/tainted? Why not Uryuu then? Is it because the former set out with good intentions?
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:48 PM   #315
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It was a nice touch when Gil was telling Kotomine about stealing another Servant. Look at what chess piece he picked up before telling him to do it on his own.

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Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post

It was surprising to learn Kirei has a subconscious interest in Kariya though. Even more surprising that there was hardly any mention of Kiritsugu on his end, nor did Gil remark on any latent animosity or even curiosity towards him. Does Kirei empathize with Kariya because they're both irrevocably mad/tainted? Why not Uryuu then? Is it because the former set out with good intentions?[/SPOILER]
Spoiler: show
Kariya is the most tragic and selfless of the group, with a connection to Tokiomi. Given how Kotomine's devotion to Catholicism is starting to bend under Gilgamesh's influence, one could imagine the potential Kotomine sees in Kariya.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:12 AM   #316
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I watched Fate/Zero Episode 12 tonight. It was another good, solid episode. I felt very similarly about this one as I did last week's -- lots of exposition, yes, but good exposition, the sort of stuff I like in a prequel story like this. It was also great to see that the animation budget was back up to snuff. Probably at the expense of next week's episode, as I'm sure we'll doubtless discover. ^^; But yeah: from single blades of grass in an overgrown yard to the way in which Gil's and Kirei's faces were drawn during their long chat, it was clear that whoever fucked up last week's episode was either whipped into shape or else fired and that ufotable must have gotten as much rage from the Japanese fans as they unknowingly got from us in the English-speaking world, too. Also like last week's episode, this one gets off to a fun yet inexplicably "slow-feeling" start, with things really picking up in the second half.

Spoiler: show
The opening scene for this episode, the one with Tokiomi talking to Kirei over the gramophone wireless about Rider vs. Assassin, was the final scene in Book 2 and would have marked the original halfway point. As we'll see in the next scene, it's rather curious that they didn't decide to have Season 1 be the one which was "only" 11 episodes long (12 if you count the fact that Episode 1 was a one-hour special) and allow Season 2 to be the 13-episode long one.

After the credits, we cut to Kiritsugu talking to Maiya about various things. This was a solid recap scene, and while I didn't notice it while watching the episode, mere moments after I finished the episode and began to reflect on what I had witnessed, I realized that this scene of Kiritsugu looking at a map of Fuyuki City with all the known locations of the others Masters and their statuses in the war would have made for the perfect "Welcome back to Fate/Zero " opening scene for Season 2. (Season 2? Season 1B? Season 2, I guess.) That's probably what it served to do in the original book if you think about it: offer as something of a cute hiding-behind-the-4th-wall refresher for the readers at home, an elegant way of reminding the readers what's been going on but doing it from the believable perspective of somebody who is living in his here and now and is getting down to business. @Yuki: Was sitting too far away from the screen to notice that he was eating a hamburger.

We then cut to the first half of a long scene between Kirei and Archer. This was a good, solid scene, but I was a little bit puzzled about some claims Nasu or Gen made here about Command Spell and Master-Servant mechanics. Working on my confusion on my end, may write more later, may not.

After the commercial break, things really start to pick up for this episode. First we have Saber and Irisviel driving to their new base of operations. This whole time, I had no idea where we were headed. I pictured some hole-in-the-wall place in the slums or something. Maybe on the docks. Something kind of drab and nasty but they'd just have to make do. Also, I was still trying to get over the initial shock that they had changed locations. Tokiomi never bothered to (not that he's fallen under much attack yet), and neither did Ilya all throughout War 5. So I was kind of surprised to see the Einzberns abandon the only-partly-damaged (if chunkily damaged ^^; ) castle. But little did I expect ...

... that this would be how Emiya Kiritsugu came to call Fuyuki City "home." I had all but abandoned hope that we'd see the house in Fate/Zero once it was firmly established that our base was to be the castle. So while the excuse for packing up and heading over here may be a little curious ^^;, I'll happily roll with it and welcome this new plot development into Fate canon. The Emiya Japanese-style house is back! And it's never looked better. (Sorry, Deen. ^^; Sorry, Takeuchi. ^^;;;;;;; ) @Yuki: Not really sure you get bragging rights on the shed. ^^;;;;; It was pretty damn obvious by the time we were already at the house that the storeroom (which is what a shed is? ^^;;;;; ) would be the same shed Shirou used to always practice in. I'd be more inclined to give you brownie points if you had known we were heading to Emiya's future house while we were still on the highway in the car with Iri and Saber. But otherwise, good observations about the camera angles and stuff like that. And I agree: it's eerie and sad and beautiful all wrapped into one to think that this is the home that Ilya would one day spend her dying months in, too.

The part with Iri's failing health came as a surprise and was pretty tough to watch. With someone close in the family suffering from neuropathies of their own due to an autoimmune disease, it was nice to see how respectfully Gen dealt with the issue. I'm even more curious than Saber is to know what's causing Iri's failure. One wonders if it has to do with what Doppel was always saying about Ilya back in FSN and how he was always mentioning that Ilya, canonically, has to die 6 or so months after the end of the Grail War in FSN because her body simply gives out. Maybe the same sort of thing applies here: maybe Irisviel, unlike Acht, isn't a homonculus crafted to last for very long. Maybe the way she was built, she's very very good at her intended roles (e.g. as a magic-user, as a vessel for the Grail, so on and so forth) but her body's natural lifespan isn't much more than 30 or so years. Who knows. In any event, I'd like to see Iri recover but I very much doubt that that's going to happen. And so it was very sad to learn that Irisviel will never again be able to drive a car, her favorite pasttime in the world. Very sad, very human, and very relatable. This is precisely the sort of thing which separates the men (F/Z) from the boys (FSN).

And now after a strong first scene in the second half, we come to the second scene of the second half and the real powerhouse exposition scene of the episode: the remainder of Kirei's conversation with Gilgamesh. This was a really good scene as it helped to develop two of the most enigmatic characters in the original game: Kotomine Kirei and 4th War Archer, a.k.a. Gilgamesh, the King of Heroes. Like Yuki mentions, it was really easy to feel bad for Kirei during this scene as it was pretty obvious what was going on: Kirei was trying to hold his balance and prevent himself from falling into the pit called Wickedness, yet Gilgamesh was relentlessly pushing him for personal amusement. That stated, Kirei can't help what his true nature is and one could say Gil was doing "the right thing" (in a sense? ^^;; ) awakening Kirei to it.

Like Yuki, I was really surprised to learn that the master Kirei has had his eyes on according to Gilgamesh was Kariya. I totally was expecting Kiritsugu (for obvious reasons), and yet bam, there came Kariya. I think the reason for this is more thematic than plot-based. The plot informs us that Kirei is clearly obsessed with Kiritsugu and that both men greatly respect and fear the other. This episode itself reminded us, in the first half with Kiritsugu's scene, of the two men's relationship. So why, then, do we now out of the blue introduce an interest in Kariya? Well, it's because of what Kariya represents. To answer Yuki's question, "Why Kariya and not Uryuu?", I don't think it's so much because Kariya is going / has gone insane or that he's a berserker who wreaks havoc and destroys the world (things Kirei certainly seemed to yearn for in FSN, as we found out) but instead because Kariya is the most tragic character of the lot. There are a lot of tragic heroes in this mix, Kiritsugu among them, but Kariya stands above the rest. How he suffers for Aoi's sake and yet how his love for her is (seemingly) unrequited ... how he suffers for Sakura's sake and yet how unaware she seems to be ... how he's given up his life for seemingly no reason whatsoever as he is doomed to not win this war ... Kariya's is a pretty tragic case. Kirei seems attracted to tragedy. It's why he allowed Shirou to get as far in the war as he did, I'm pretty sure. He wanted to relish in Shirou's discovery that Kiritsugu wasn't all the hero he held him to be. He wanted to relish in Shirou's discovery about Sakura (HF route only). Remember when Kirei saved Sakura and Sakura thanked him and then Kirei said, "Don't thank me. I didn't do this for you. And I didn't do it for good reasons, either" or something like that? It established then, and is a useful reference for us now as we watch F/Z, that Kirei likes tragedy. One could even say that it is perhaps the basis as to why, for so long, he devoted himself to the Church: because let's face it, the Christian religion is built around tragedy after tragedy, concepts like eternal suffering and original sin and falls from grace, stuff like that. So ... I think that's why he's focused in on Kariya and not on Uryuu. Uryuu is just some kid who is arguably "not a tragedy" as he was (let us say) "born" crazy. He was a bad seed right from the get-go. Whereas Kariya's is the tale of a man who loses himself as he tries to fight for the woman he loves but who doesn't love him back (or at least didn't pick him for a husband). It's like saying ... if white is good and black is bad, it's less tragic to have always been black than it is to have been purest white and to then fall and become the pitchest black.

Anyway, back to the scene. Gilgamesh is a ridiculously good detective. I guess Sherlock Holmes' magnifying glass and pipe trace their origins back to Gilgamesh's treasury too? But seriously: time after time, he made some damn good deductions or observations here. Obviously this is because (irl) he's a vessel for the plot the all-knowing Urobuchi Gen is crafting, but within the realities of the characters' universe, it makes Gil into something of an expert anthropologist in the truest sense of the term ("one who studies men").

Kirei's outburst at 19m25s was surprising and reminds me that the Kirei now (in F/Z) isn't yet the Kirei we met in FSN. I had just assumed that, all this time, Kirei was aware of his true nature and was lying to himself about it. But he seemed to get sincerely upset with Gilgamesh and accused him of heresy (and not sarcastically, either) when Gilgamesh was telling him about finding pleasure in the suffering of others. Or maybe I didn't assume it: weren't we told in FSN that Kirei was aware of his nature since boyhood? Weren't we told that Kirei thought to himself, "I wish I had been the one to kill her. So I could have known what it felt like" the moment he found out his wife had died? If it was something he reflected on years later, then fine, there's no contradiction with F/Z now; but if he was acutely aware at the time of her death, "Man, I wish I coulda killed her >_<", then wouldn't that sort of fly in the face of F/Z Kirei's "That is the soul of a sinner, an evil that must be punished!" desire to be pure?

lol @ the end at how Gilgamesh all but bids Kirei to betray Tokiomi and claim Archer for his own but then says, "No, I'm not going to say it. You're going to have to figure this one out on your own." Hindsight bias is 20/20, perhaps, but it seems painfully obvious how badly Gilgamesh wants to be Kirei's servant. (Although ... it's kind of weird, isn't it? You'd think that a guy like Gilgamesh wouldn't want any Master. After all, a king serves no man and Gilgamesh is the King of Kings. But I guess more will be explained in due time. (Ohhhh, Season 2. How I wish you were here now in your entirety. ^^; )

Show a good episode, get a long essay from Talon. You've done well, ufotable. You've done very well. After fucking up what should have been one of the series' best episodes, you showed that you were able to rebound this time and turn an episode chock-filled with talking into one heck of an interesting watch. Looking forward to watching this one once more tomorrow with UTW.

EDIT: Your observation with the chess piece, Doppel, was obvious too. C'mon, guys. ^^; These are not easter eggs. Go back and watch that scene again with the subs turned off, Doppel. You'll find that that's all the screen focuses on for like a good solid 5 seconds. It's hard not to notice, "Hey! He's toying with HIS piece as he tells Kirei to steal a Servant!" ^^;
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:51 AM   #317
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@Yuki: Not really sure you get bragging rights on the shed. ^^;;;;; It was pretty damn obvious by the time we were already at the house that the storeroom (which is what a shed is? ^^;;;;; ) would be the same shed Shirou used to always practice in. I'd be more inclined to give you brownie points if you had known we were heading to Emiya's future house while we were still on the highway in the car with Iri and Saber. But otherwise, good observations about the camera angles and stuff like that. And I agree: it's eerie and sad and beautiful all wrapped into one to think that this is the home that Ilya would one day spend her dying months in, too.
Spoiler: show
I had a familiar feeling as soon as they pulled up to the Japanese-style entrance gate. The rusty storehouse key just confirmed it for me.


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To answer Yuki's question, "Why Kariya and not Uryuu?", I don't think it's so much because Kariya is going / has gone insane or that he's a berserker who wreaks havoc and destroys the world (things Kirei certainly seemed to yearn for in FSN, as we found out) but instead because Kariya is the most tragic character of the lot. There are a lot of tragic heroes in this mix, Kiritsugu among them, but Kariya stands above the rest. How he suffers for Aoi's sake and yet how his love for her is (seemingly) unrequited ... how he suffers for Sakura's sake and yet how unaware she seems to be ... how he's given up his life for seemingly no reason whatsoever as he is doomed to not win this war ... Kariya's is a pretty tragic case. Kirei seems attracted to tragedy. It's why he allowed Shirou to get as far in the war as he did, I'm pretty sure. He wanted to relish in Shirou's discovery that Kiritsugu wasn't all the hero he held him to be. He wanted to relish in Shirou's discovery about Sakura (HF route only). Remember when Kirei saved Sakura and Sakura thanked him and then Kirei said, "Don't thank me. I didn't do this for you. And I didn't do it for good reasons, either" or something like that? It established then, and is a useful reference for us now as we watch F/Z, that Kirei likes tragedy. One could even say that it is perhaps the basis as to why, for so long, he devoted himself to the Church: because let's face it, the Christian religion is built around tragedy after tragedy, concepts like eternal suffering and original sin and falls from grace, stuff like that. So ... I think that's why he's focused in on Kariya and not on Uryuu. Uryuu is just some kid who is arguably "not a tragedy" as he was (let us say) "born" crazy. He was a bad seed right from the get-go. Whereas Kariya's is the tale of a man who loses himself as he tries to fight for the woman he loves but who doesn't love him back (or at least didn't pick him for a husband). It's like saying ... if white is good and black is bad, it's less tragic to have always been black than it is to have been purest white and to then fall and become the pitchest black.
Spoiler: show
I see. Your reasoning and the comparison to Shirou do make a lot of sense. So basically Kirei wants to witness Kariya slowly die a hero's death? That's sick, and really depressing in a way for both men.

Wait. That means... KIREI IS AN ANGST ADDICT. OMG I FIGURED IT OUT GUYS. KOTOMINE KIREI IS A FICTIONAL REPRESENTATION OF UROBUCHI GEN! XDDD


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Anyway, back to the scene. Gilgamesh is a ridiculously good detective. I guess Sherlock Holmes' magnifying glass and pipe trace their origins back to Gilgamesh's treasury too? But seriously: time after time, he made some damn good deductions or observations here. Obviously this is because (irl) he's a vessel for the plot the all-knowing Urobuchi Gen is crafting, but within the realities of the characters' universe, it makes Gil into something of an expert anthropologist in the truest sense of the term ("one who studies men").
Spoiler: show
Oh man, I know. Throughout the whole scene, everytime Gil pointed out a contradiction, I was thinking he's either BSing out the ass, or he's just crazy observant. Probably both, in which case he'd make a damn brilliant attorney.

*now pictures a parody of this scene with Gil shouting "OBJECTION!" at every juncture*


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lol @ the end at how Gilgamesh all but bids Kirei to betray Tokiomi and claim Archer for his own but then says, "No, I'm not going to say it. You're going to have to figure this one out on your own." Hindsight bias is 20/20, perhaps, but it seems painfully obvious how badly Gilgamesh wants to be Kirei's servant. (Although ... it's kind of weird, isn't it? You'd think that a guy like Gilgamesh wouldn't want any Master. After all, a king serves no man and Gilgamesh is the King of Kings. But I guess more will be explained in due time. (Ohhhh, Season 2. How I wish you were here now in your entirety. ^^; )
Spoiler: show
This makes me think Gil was/is just playing with Kirei the whole time, even in FSN. He enjoys watching humans squirm and suffer as much as Kirei does. Whether Kirei eventually realizes he's being used or not is up for debate, but I imagine it wouldn't make much difference to him so long as they're cooperating towards the same goal.


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Show a good episode, get a long essay from Talon. You've done well, ufotable. You've done very well. After fucking up what should have been one of the series' best episodes, you showed that you were able to rebound this time and turn an episode chock-filled with talking into one heck of an interesting watch. Looking forward to watching this one once more tomorrow with UTW.
I still think last episode was the best, and I wish they would've ended the season with it. x.X Can't imagine what could go on next week (well, perhaps I can given the preview), but I'm not too sore to be missing it.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:16 AM   #318
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Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking not ending the season with the last episode. It's probably pretty difficult to get fourteen weeks rather than thirteen, or to get at least one one-hour timeslot rather than the typical thirty-minute timeslot, but this is Fate/Zero: you'd think they could do it. Get fourteen weeks in Spring 2012 (either snatching the last week in the Winter 2012 season from some other show or else hogging up the first week in the Summer 2012 season from some other show) and have a fourteen-episode second season. This week's episode, due to Kiritsugu's scene alone, would have made for a great season opener. Kirei's and Gilgamesh's scene is what lent the episode its meat, and Irisviel's and Saber's scene helps to draw the imaginary line in the sand between the first half and the second half.

What seems even crazier is ...
Spoiler: show
It looks like the final episode next week is going to be leading into a big conflict with either Lancer, Caster, or quite possibly both; but, chances are very good that neither Servant is going to die next episode. I could be wrong about that, but it seems likely to me that we're going to start a conflict ....... and then go into a painful cliffhanger ending, one which won't be resolved until April. And by that time, the resolution to the cliffhanger won't feel nearly as satisfying as it would have had we only had to wait a week for it.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:23 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post

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I see. Your reasoning and the comparison to Shirou do make a lot of sense. So basically Kirei wants to witness Kariya slowly die a hero's death? That's sick, and really depressing in a way for both men.

Wait. That means... KIREI IS AN ANGST ADDICT. OMG I FIGURED IT OUT GUYS. KOTOMINE KIREI IS A FICTIONAL REPRESENTATION OF UROBUCHI GEN! XDDD

Gen would have us believe he has the heart of a young maiden. Talon laughed at my pure souls characterization, but that's based on something Gen commented on Madoka - he desperately craves for purity and the inherent good, but all his characters get twisted in the end.

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Spoiler: show
This makes me think Gil was/is just playing with Kirei the whole time, even in FSN. He enjoys watching humans squirm and suffer as much as Kirei does. Whether Kirei eventually realizes he's being used or not is up for debate, but I imagine it wouldn't make much difference to him so long as they're cooperating towards the same goal.

I wouldn't say that.

We're watching Kotomine transition from True Neutral → Neutral Evil. Gilgamesh, even while insane in FSN, is always a Chaotic Good hero. Gil is convinced what's good for him is also good for the world, so he thinks Kotomine grasping his true nature is both entertaining and better for the moonlit world.

It sounds immoral, but taking Tokiomi's conservative nature into account, Gilgamesh would be saving Fuyuki a lot of grief if he obliterated the other Masters and Servants. Especially Caster and Uryuu. Kotomine pursuing his own interests could allow him to manipulate other Masters into destroying one another, and there's an obvious advantage to be exploited in Kairya and Tokiomi as enemies.

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Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking not ending the season with the last episode. It's probably pretty difficult to get fourteen weeks rather than thirteen, or to get at least one one-hour timeslot rather than the typical thirty-minute timeslot, but this is Fate/Zero: you'd think they could do it. Get fourteen weeks in Spring 2012 (either snatching the last week in the Winter 2012 season from some other show or else hogging up the first week in the Summer 2012 season from some other show) and have a fourteen-episode second season. This week's episode, due to Kiritsugu's scene alone, would have made for a great season opener. Kirei's and Gilgamesh's scene is what lent the episode its meat, and Irisviel's and Saber's scene helps to draw the imaginary line in the sand between the first half and the second half.
Fourteen is practically impossible, as shows are scheduled almost six weeks in advance. The current format of anime now is 12/12 or just 12/-, the two-season 26 episode show is going out of fashion because one could potentially shoehorn a new 12 episode anime every 6 seasons, and it's cheaper all around to write to a 24 episode show over 26.

Fate/Zero already did its impressive budget display with that double length first episode. I don't know what network scheduling thinks, but that's fourteen episodes worth of budget right there.

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What seems even crazier is ...
Spoiler: show
It looks like the final episode next week is going to be leading into a big conflict with either Lancer, Caster, or quite possibly both; but, chances are very good that neither Servant is going to die next episode. I could be wrong about that, but it seems likely to me that we're going to start a conflict ....... and then go into a painful cliffhanger ending, one which won't be resolved until April. And by that time, the resolution to the cliffhanger won't feel nearly as satisfying as it would have had we only had to wait a week for it.
Caster is the next big confrontation, yes. It's pretty spectacular, and a bit pathetic retrospectively given we know the Caster in FSN is supposed to be far more powerful than Bluebeard. It's also a Nitro+ special delivery.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:41 PM   #320
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Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu S1: 14 episodes
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu S2: 14 episodes
Mahoromatic S2: 14 episodes

Is it common? No. But you can do it, especially when you're a juggernaut. Haruhi was a juggernaut. So is Fate/Zero. I rest my case.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:19 PM   #321
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From what I've read, Fate/Zero doesn't have that kind of clout. The only current anime that has the power to influence next season's scheduling appears to be Persona 4. We probably won't be getting sales results until a few months from now, but if F/Z sells well, we could see a lopsided second season when it next airs.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:35 PM   #322
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While it could always be a West vs. East thing, MAL has Fate/Zero clocked in at 15th Place for all-time most popular series. But I don't think that it is such a thing: because I see more Fate/Zero fanart on Pixiv's Top Daily and Top Weekly charts than I see Touhou. Touhou, Doppel. So ....... no. I'm thinking that Fate/Zero has a lot of clout and will be selling handsomely this spring.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see to see who's right.
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:39 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
MAL has Fate/Zero clocked in at 15th Place for all-time most popular series.
You're actually looking at the top rating, not top popularity. Looking at the popularity metric, FSN has ~60,000 ratings while F/Z only has 8,000+. I noticed a similar but more dramatic disparity on ANN, with 4,000+ reviews for FSN but only a mere 100 for F/Z.

It's puzzling to me how communication works online. I browse the highest traffic anime boards, but I still see new people appear out of nowhere to vote on titles like Ano Hana and Steins;Gate, then disappear like Great Pumpkins. How are these people getting their information?

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
EDIT: Your observation with the chess piece, Doppel, was obvious too. C'mon, guys. ^^; These are not easter eggs. Go back and watch that scene again with the subs turned off, Doppel. You'll find that that's all the screen focuses on for like a good solid 5 seconds. It's hard not to notice, "Hey! He's toying with HIS piece as he tells Kirei to steal a Servant!" ^^;
If it's so obvious, why didn't Kirei get it HUH?
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Last edited by Doppleganger; 12-19-2011 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:31 AM   #324
Talon87
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Still haven't watched Episode 13, but I do have some good news! Quoting UTW's weblog:
Quote:
FAQ

Fate/Zero S1 batch where?

We'll be including the uncut ep11 that airs on January 2nd, so expect the batch a couple days after that.
So, it seems that we won't have to wait for the BDs in the spring to see the uncut Episode 11. Now granted, we probably will have to wait at least that long to see the re-animated version, but it's nice to know that at least we can see the 40/45/however many minute-long version very soon.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:48 PM   #325
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I watched Episode 13 yesterday. I enjoyed it so much that I wanted to watch it again before posting. I didn't get around to watching it again, though, until this evening; but now that I've seen it twice, I'm ready to write up my post.


"So, you're basically saying it doesn't matter who your master is, right?"

A Team Rider-heavy episode, Episode 13 ended up being one of my favorite episodes of the series. And when I say Team Rider-heavy, I mean heavy: easily 50% of the allotted airtime focuses squarely on Waver's relationship with Rider. Another reason why this episode will stand out now and in the future is because of its cliffhanger ending. You might even call it the epic cliffhanger to end all epic cliffhangers. Oooooor you might just settle for it being the cliffhanger of the year. Regardless, the episode ends in all the right ways, from the music and excitement to the inside-jokes (I <3 you, Waver! ) and the animation. Like I told Yuki on Skype, it would be a travesty if ufotable inexplicably went bankrupt and closed up shop between now and April and we never got to see the rest of Fate/Zero animated. That's just how good ("good"? ) of a cliffhanger the ending is.

Now, lest I get you too excited, Dear Reader: no, this episode isn't quite as epic as the first episode with the summonings. And no, dear reader, it isn't as epic as the Reality Marble which debuted in Episode 11, either. I personally enjoyed it a lot. Your mileage may vary. But I think that, by the time you reach the end of the episode, you'll have enjoyed it too. A bad episode it is not.

Spoiler: show
The episode opens with Waver's shared dream with Rider, the one about Rider reaching the end of the world and seeing Oceanus. This was really awesome. In Fate/Stay Night, shared memories or dreams played a huge part in Emiya Shirou's story with Saber. Often times, particularly in the Fate path, he would see a scene in Saber's past and it would lend him better insight as to what sort of person she was in life, and is to this day. In FSN, it was put forward that it is not unheard of for Masters' and Servants' consciousnesses to have a little bleed-over, a little sharing of the minds, as it were, but that in Shirou's case his experiences with Saber were probably a result of just how ideal a summon she was for him. Thus, I really loved that they gave us this plot development for Waver Velvet. Why?
  1. I love it because it serves as one more bit of evidence that Waver's bond with Rider is a special one, even more special than the bonds many of the Masters share with their Servants; and
  2. I love it because it's a nice tie-in to FSN. I really appreciate Gen's ability to do this, and before the episode's end we see another big one that's been a long time coming.


The next scene is of Uryuu and Caster finally making their return to their base of operations only to discover that it's been destroyed by one of the other Servants. It was pretty cool from a psychological perspective. Highlights included:
  • Seeing Uryuu respond as though he'd been so wronged. It shows that even he is human. He's a fucked-up, twisted human, but he too has hopes, dreams, fears, and sorrows.
  • Hearing Uryuu's spiel about God. I leave it to the viewer to decide for himself whether or not Urobuchi Gen is taking the piss out of religion by having Uryuu Ryuunosuke, the psychotic serial killer, extoll the wonders of creation and provide a very Intelligent Design-esque answer to Caster's question as to whether there is a God or not.


Next up is the library scene. Or is it a bookstore? I had assumed it was a library when I saw the picture in the book. And the size of the shelves and number of shelves also makes me think of it as a library. But the fact that Waver had to ride an escalator to reach his destination and the fact that a book on Alexander the Great was side-by-side with books on Gandhi, Che Guevera, and others, makes me think that it was a bookstore. Anyway! It doesn't really matter. What matters is, this is a scene I'd been looking forward to seeing in animated form for a long time and it didn't disappoint.

Afterwards, we have Caster and Uryuu getting another scene, this time at the bridge that connects Miyama and Shinto. I'll skip over this for now since there's not much to say about it just yet.


Next up is the remainder of the episode (more or less) as Waver and Rider walk back home from the bookstore. Here's the emotional scene where Waver finally lets off his chest all of the weight he's been burdened by ever since he first laid eyes on Rider.
  1. He entered the Grail War to prove himself. Instead, Rider is doing everything and Waver is the bumbling idiot sidekick who gets dragged along for the ride. This humiliates him and frustrates him. He wants to be able to contribute more to the team effort. But he also realizes that he can't.

    When Waver mentions how it would have been better if he'd summoned Assassin and Rider tells him "But you'd already be dead if that were the case," from Waver's response we learn that he is less afraid of dying than he is afraid of never amounting to anything. Awww. So, despite his natural fear of death during the Grail War, he's still that determined to amount to something. He doesn't regret entering. He only regrets that the Servant he summoned is, lol ^^;, too good.
  2. Waver believes that Rider isn't happy with the contract, either. Waver mistakenly believes himself to be the weakest of the seven magi in the war. He believes Rider to be the strongest of the seven summoned servants in the war. Thus, theirs is the most ridiculous mismatch of a Master and a Servant. And this is tearing him up inside. What he tells Rider is, "You probably don't want me for a Master, huh?" But what he's really thinking is, "I hate myself for holding Rider back. I wish he had a better Master than me." D'awwww.


When Rider tells Waver that he wouldn't mind obeying the boy if only he had a better Grail wish than earning others' respect, I wonder if this isn't some delicious foreshadowing for Part 2. It'll be interesting to see if Waver's Grail wish evolves over the course of the war, if Rider becomes aware of this, and if Rider obeys his Master once Waver yearns for something that Rider considers truly admirable.

When Rider tells Waver, "It's not like the Grail War will be the most important event in your life," I thought that was a very "Awwwwwww " moment. Because I think we both know, us and Rider, that this very probably will be the single most important moment in Waver's life. That it will be the transformative moment which shapes what sort of man he becomes. So it was really d'awww to hear Rider tell a white lie like this, or maybe he even meant what he said, and to tell Waver, "You're going to grow up to become such an amazing magus that the Grail War is going to be a small chapter in your biography." This is a really deep, heavy foreshadowing statement. Because if Waver survives the war, this could be Rider prognosticating the boy's future; while if Waver is killed during the war, this could prove to be Urobuchi Gen's sleekest, darkest stroke of the pen yet. What painful irony! That the Servant tries to console the boy, "Don't worry, you have big things waiting for you in the future," only for Fate to cruelly say, "Nope. His life is mine five days from now." Guess we'll just have to wait and see to discover which of the two Rider's compliment turns out to be.

When Rider leans over, draws Waver close to him, and pulls the atlas out of his backpack (pictured above), I absolutely love the "O_O " face Waver makes. With scenes like these, it is so so hard pretty much impossible not to ship Waver x Rider. And I ain't even gay. But how can you not? The two are just too perfect.

I really love the part where Rider's attempt to cheer Waver up -- where he's trying to show him how both he and Waver are small, insignificant dots in the big, wide world and that the difference in their size doesn't matter -- instead has the opposite effect and Waver dejectedly says, "So, you're basically saying it doesn't matter who your master is, right? No matter how weak I am, it won't pose you any problems." I really loved Rider's response to this. The one that finally begins to get Waver to cheer up. When Rider says, "That inferiority you're feeling is actually the quality of a king." And he explains how a true king is one who in spite of realizing how small and powerless he is still dares to dream and to reach for the stars. And Waver suddenly realizes that this is how Rider himself was in life -- he realized he was just some Macedonian youth and yet he still dared to dream that he might one day see the very edge of the world. And how it caps off with Rider saying, "I'm glad an idiot like me got an idiot like you for a master. I think we make a perfect pair." It's just ... D'AWWWWWWWWW.

Yuki: Somebody, grab the tissues.

Then comes the cliffhanger scene. Like I mentioned in the non-spoiler text up top, I really felt that this scene had it all: music, tone, animation, art direction, just everything. Very well done. My favorite part is definitely when Rider takes to the sky in his chariot and Waver is carted along, screaming for dear life like he always does. (This is the inside-joke I had mentioned before. ) You'd think he'd be used to it by now, but ... nope! Still scares the bejeezus out of him every time.


Finally, after the credits roll, we get a sneak peek for Season 2. Pictured above are Caster's epic summon and Gilgamesh looking positively Gilgameshy. I'm really looking forward to Season 2. If we get an estimated 13 episodes, with six of the seven Servants still alive, that's approximately one Servant removed from the war every two episodes. Now granted, the math might not quite hold up -- for instance, there might be a double-elimination with Caster and Lancer for all we know, and neither Saber nor Archer can be counted on to die before the series' end -- but even still, it seems like Season 2 is going to be jam-packed with action. My only hope is that they find a way to squeeze in plot development time for Kariya, Berserker, Waver and Rider (always ), and Kiritsugu.

Last edited by Talon87; 12-29-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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