UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-03-2019, 07:13 PM   #5076
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Median Dia View Post

On a different note, can someone with a bit more hands-on knowledge judge the validity of this summary image?
Spoiler: show
I think it's accurate.

-Dragapult is the best overall Pokemon
-Magic Guard Clefable sucks compared to Hatterene and Grimmsnarl
-Aegislash is only OK
-Tyranitar kind of sucks because he can't punish the Psychics, Ghosts with Pursuit
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 09:31 PM   #5077
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I lost to a guy who spammed Choice Specs/Band on everything, with a Scarf Ditto. Even though I had a Scarf Dragapult, I couldn't get a free switch to put it in, and I wasn't confident the Dragapult could 2HKO Specs Clefable.

On the other hand, the only reason I did lose was because of an unlucky miss from Garmanitan. His Grimmsnarl was able to switch in safely because of that, and both KO Garmanitan and Dracovish.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 04:10 AM   #5078
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I'm at 35 games with a 26-9 record. Only about 3 of those games would I have felt I misplayed hard and could have won with better judgment. My GXE is 73.1%.

How the fudge are you supposed to get to 81%? That mandates like near perfect play. Yet I see a bunch of people with 85%+?

__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 04:58 PM   #5079
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat
Thunder Badge
 
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Dragonland
Posts: 615
damn dude. I have many GXEs, none of which are that high. My highest is 46%
__________________
Dracen, Dragon Trainer

Cy, Bug Trainer


FB Profile
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 03:14 AM   #5080
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I think it's dumb that Strength Sap regains 20% HP from a burned, -5 Toxapex and said Toxapex can't kill the poisoned Jellicent in return with Struggle.

WTF?

The only way that's possible is Strength Sap ignores burns. Because while I can imagine a -5, burned Toxapex doing almost nothing with Struggle, why the fudge can Strength Sap do enough to prevent death by poison?
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 06:39 PM   #5081
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Usage stats for SwSh so far:

Code:
 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1    | Dragapult          | 34.77819% | 921374 | 35.663% | 660270 | 34.170% |
| 2    | Darmanitan-Galar   | 34.63651% | 845528 | 32.727% | 639910 | 33.117% |
| 3    | Ditto              | 33.01591% | 485493 | 18.792% | 324063 | 16.771% |
| 4    | Excadrill          | 32.75617% | 647707 | 25.070% | 503401 | 26.052% |
| 5    | Corviknight        | 32.13087% | 624516 | 24.173% | 464274 | 24.027% |
| 6    | Ferrothorn         | 28.40382% | 601620 | 23.286% | 499486 | 25.849% |
| 7    | Rotom-Wash         | 19.51660% | 346122 | 13.397% | 286766 | 14.841% |
| 8    | Gyarados           | 18.54957% | 386563 | 14.962% | 271719 | 14.062% |
| 9    | Hydreigon          | 17.63615% | 282357 | 10.929% | 212233 | 10.984% |
| 10   | Toxapex            | 17.42956% | 333812 | 12.921% | 262702 | 13.595% |
| 11   | Aegislash          | 15.62743% | 332485 | 12.869% | 241280 | 12.487% |
| 12   | Hatterene          | 15.49125% | 318647 | 12.334% | 238932 | 12.365% |
| 13   | Clefable           | 15.28517% | 162871 |  6.304% | 125676 |  6.504% |
| 14   | Grimmsnarl         | 13.80130% | 396861 | 15.361% | 297956 | 15.420% |
| 15   | Cinderace          | 13.63177% | 405609 | 15.700% | 304119 | 15.739% |
| 16   | Seismitoad         | 13.20005% | 162603 |  6.294% | 134726 |  6.972% |
| 17   | Corsola-Galar      | 12.69631% | 388387 | 15.033% | 311135 | 16.102% |
| 18   | Dracovish          | 12.43686% | 287527 | 11.129% | 218752 | 11.321% |
| 19   | Tyranitar          |  9.94552% | 210848 |  8.161% | 166683 |  8.626% |
| 20   | Mandibuzz          |  9.42030% | 115892 |  4.486% | 88759  |  4.593% |
| 21   | Toxtricity         |  9.22502% | 290826 | 11.257% | 205602 | 10.640% |
| 22   | Pelipper           |  7.76577% | 198975 |  7.702% | 178933 |  9.260% |
| 23   | Barraskewda        |  7.05556% | 251096 |  9.719% | 173026 |  8.954% |
| 24   | Conkeldurr         |  6.58137% | 140911 |  5.454% | 107156 |  5.546% |
| 25   | Hawlucha           |  6.27095% | 154211 |  5.969% | 105540 |  5.462% |
| 26   | Rotom-Heat         |  5.75952% | 87298  |  3.379% | 71794  |  3.715% |
| 27   | Dracozolt          |  5.66516% | 143643 |  5.560% | 105355 |  5.452% |
| 28   | Mimikyu            |  5.54591% | 97463  |  3.772% | 69012  |  3.572% |
| 29   | Dugtrio            |  5.43636% | 101633 |  3.934% | 77751  |  4.024% |
| 30   | Bisharp            |  5.33964% | 85092  |  3.294% | 61439  |  3.180% |
| 31   | Togekiss           |  5.29094% | 113864 |  4.407% | 84388  |  4.367% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 02:32 AM   #5082
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I've seen Obstagoon more commonly than Grimmsnarl. Otherwise looks about right.

Bisharp is honestly the scariest threat on that last.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 11:13 AM   #5083
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat
Thunder Badge
 
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Dragonland
Posts: 615
I don't see Centiskorch anywhere on that list
__________________
Dracen, Dragon Trainer

Cy, Bug Trainer


FB Profile
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 01:29 PM   #5084
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 3,562
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
Probably because rocking a double weakness to Stealth Rock isn't all that great, especially when you're outsped by most things.
__________________
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 01:43 PM   #5085
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat View Post
I don't see Centiskorch anywhere on that list
That's because it's not good.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 02:15 PM   #5086
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat
Thunder Badge
 
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Dragonland
Posts: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
That's because it's not good.
Absolute, undying, unimaginable rage. You fiend. You dare insult my child.
__________________
Dracen, Dragon Trainer

Cy, Bug Trainer


FB Profile
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 04:19 PM   #5087
Median Dia
Thankful For The Results
 
Median Dia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Past the Ledge
Posts: 2,184
Look, man, my most favorites are hot garbage on the competitive scene as well. You just gotta deal with it and make do.

Centiskorch in particular suffers from a lot of the same problems volcarona did before it (losing half your health to Stealth Rocks is attrocious, and using the Heavy Duty Boots means that your held item slot can't be used for anything else), without the Speed+Quiver Dance combo the moth had to try and skirt around the issue. As far as the metagame is concerned, Emi's statement is valid.

...I should probably try playing in some lower metas than OU, now that I think about it...
__________________


Tangled Feet- "Only I have the right to hit me!"
Median Dia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 04:50 PM   #5088
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I don't even use Stealth Rock anymore. The only hazard I have is Leech Seed.

When you look at those usage stats, the only Pokemon that are affected by grounded hazards in a meaningful way are Dragapult and Darmanitan. Everything else is Steel, flies, is a Poison-type, has Magic Guard/Magic Bounce.

Then there's Cinderace.

There's too much risk stacking hazards right now.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 05:03 PM   #5089
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 3,562
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
tbh I think the threat of SR has defined the meta to a point where SR itself is mostly irrelevant but the threat of it still barricades the tier for some mons.
__________________
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 06:09 PM   #5090
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
People still prioritize Stealth Rock, but I think that's a mistake/waste of time. Like I commonly see players use Clefable or Seismitoad to drop Stealth Rock on Toxapex and Ferrothorn, because they think those Pokemon aren't offensive threats, but then I switch to Darmanitan and there goes their Clefable/Seismitoad. Without Seismitoad and Dragapult, Dracovish disembowels teams.

I'll say this, there currently isn't a good special wall to stop Dragpault. Specs Ghost, Electric, and Fire coverage hit all of Corpsola, Ferrothorn, and Toxapex. Chansey would be really good right now.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 11:10 PM   #5091
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
It's less that stealth rock exists in the meta right now and more that a pokemon stops being good if it has a readily available counter. In the case of Centiskorch (and charizard, and volcarona, and moltres, and most fire, bug, ice, and flying types), the counterpick is especially egregious because the counter doesn't even need to actually attack it but can just click a button at the beginning of combat that says "You may not use Volca until you have dealt with this." It is criminally easy to deal with a Centiskorch that has clawed its way into OU usage. You give up almost nothing to put Stealth Rock onto your defensive pivot mon like Ferrothorn, but the Centiskorch picker HAS to run defog and rapid spin and all sorts of strategic bullshit just to put their mediocre Timmy pick onto the field.

As seen with Volcarona meta, counters (even hazard counters) can be and are played around. But if something is handled by a single move that can be used before you even send that something out? People generally aren't going to try very hard to make it work.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 12:03 PM   #5092
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
omg, Glalie got Moody banned from OU again.

Freaking Glalie. What the fudge?
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 03:56 PM   #5093
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
I’m late but @those usage stats:

Do we think that Dragapult and Garmanitan are actually that good or are people just wanting to use Gen 8’s shiny new toys?
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 04:18 PM   #5094
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Garmanitan yes, Dragapult probably a lil less so
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #5095
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I'll take the contrary on that. I think Dragapult is underrated relative to its usage, while Garm is overrated.

Scarf Garm hits incredibly hard for a scarfer but like Scarf Dracovish it is an anti-HO tool. It misses important KOs against defensive mons like Clefable, Ferrothorn, and Hatterene that force awkward switches.

+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 171-202 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

versus

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 280-331 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So what are you trying to outspeed with Base 95 speed?

Dragapult
Rotom-W/Rotom-H (scarf)
Dracovish/Dracozolt (scarf)
Dugtrio
Cinderance
Gengar
Hydreigon
Mimikyu

Look at this list of targets. Dugtrio is almost always sash, Mimikyu has Disguise, the Rotoms resist most of Darmanitan's moves.

Scarf Darmanitan is quite literally "overused", especially compared to band which (at worst) is a 2HKO against anything slower than Base 95, meaning if you switch it in safely against something slower, you're almost guaranteed to kill something.

By comparison, Scarf Dragapult is even better at cleaning and anti-HO, as Draco Meteor/Fire Blast is a clean kill on other common scarfers like Hydreigon and Darmanitan, and Infiltrator makes it an emergency button for common sub spammers like Corviknight, Hydreigon, and Gengar.

There's really no other answer to sub/NP/DD abusers because even though Pex can Haze them, she can't break their subs and is otherwise useless at stalling them. Dragapult is really the only answer to a NP Hydreigon with Dark Pulse and Flash Cannon.

Bulk Up, Roost, Brave Bird and Substitute Corviknight is also a huge pain. Darmanitan is a bad check because it gets OHKO by Brave Bird when it breaks the sub. Clefable and Hatterene take significant damage trying to hit Corviknight with fire-type moves. Neither Ferrothorn or Toxapex can Corviknight behind the sub and they get Pressure stalled.

So yeah. I think Dragapult is absolutely worthy of the #1 slot right now. People are dumping on the scarf set too when it's insanely stupid and forces you to run something like Bisharp to deal with it.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 11:34 PM   #5096
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat
Thunder Badge
 
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Dragonland
Posts: 615
Why would I run Defog or Rapid Spin when I could just, like, not use Centi during any match with a Stealth Rock? I'll just put in one of my other 'mons, Sandaconda and Drednaw have rock resistance.
__________________
Dracen, Dragon Trainer

Cy, Bug Trainer


FB Profile
sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 04:05 AM   #5097
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 3,562
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
Because Stealth Rock is basically a staple for most OU teams, and hell probably more than a few in lower tiers.
__________________
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 05:28 AM   #5098
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Only one of those Pokemon have Rock resistance
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 05:44 AM   #5099
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I don't see how to get 81% GXE without cheating. The higher you go, the more you lose matches to HAX like Pyro Ball or Flamethrower burning Dracovish or Ferrothorn.

Draco Meteor misses, Pyro Ball/Flamethrower burns, it's ridiculous. The closest I came was either 78.6% or 79.4%, and that was with a 21-1 record. That isn't sustainable!

It's also tougher now that everyone figured out how to cheese Dracovish. I'd hoped that information wouldn't disseminate so quickly, but it did.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2020, 07:47 AM   #5100
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
So apparently Melmetal is being suspect tested back into OU.

I tried it out and it's pretty strong...but not overwhelming without Dynamax.

I actually don't know what to use for nat dex OU right now. The team I ran several months ago was torn to shreds by bans.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.