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Old 03-30-2015, 07:34 AM   #51
Talon87
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Currently about halfway through Case 2. Can't really find a way to clue you in to my progress without spoiling but am trying to so that first-time players can happily read this post too if they've made it as far as I have. So ... guess I will make a nested set of spoiler tags that will help out. Begin by clicking the first box below and keep expanding the chain until you either reach the end or reach the first unfamiliar piece of information. It's been set up in such a way as to spoil you minimally even if you should reach not-yet-seen information, trust me.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the part where you grill Luke Atmey on the witness stand.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the part where the judge renders his verdict.

Spoiler: show
His initial verdict, that is. I'm past the part where you go to talk to Mrs. DeLite at her home.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the part where you go to KB Security and investigate the CEO's office with Gumshoe there.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the part where you go to the security guard office and grill Larry.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the part where you break Larry's Psyche-Locks.

Spoiler: show
I've just reached the detention center to have my first conversation with Ron DeLite since the day before.

Alright, so if you made it all the way to the final spoiler box without being spoiled on anything, know that you can go ahead and read the rest of this post spoiler-free. If not, sit tight until you are able to read through spoiler-free.

'Kay. So ... I've been really enjoying the case so far, a lot more than I think I did originally. I know I said this same exact thing the other day, but it bears repeating. I think when I first played the case, I was frustrated by a variety of things:

Spoiler: show
The occasional hiccup in Capcom's breadcrumb trail. Only one thing so far has not been obvious to me on the re-play to present to people (and that was presenting to Larry the blackmail letter Ron received), but I think that while 85% of that is me being me and I likely aced it originally, the other 15% of it is me having played the game years ago and subconsciously (if not also consciously) remembering what goes where. I can see the first playthrough having been more frustrating, where you present the right evidence at the wrong time and get smacked down by the game's unforgiving coding. Or where you don't know what evidence to present right now and have to cycle through every possible piece of evidence and every possible profile one at a time in order to advance the game. But at least this time, I've only had one hiccup (the blackmail letter to present to Larry) and that I think has helped the case avoid becoming unenjoyable.

(Also: worth pointing out that the presenting the letter to Larry moment was exactly where I turned off the game before heading out for the day, and so I didn't get back to the game until nine hours later. I completely forgot what I had to do next and the characters weren't very helpful in steering me when I opted to re-talk to them.)

I know I originally hated Luke Atmey a ton. And I still do dislike him! But I think it helps a lot to know going into his interrogation what his story is.

I can imagine it was very vexing on the first time through being toyed with by Capcom as to whether Ron DeLite is or is not the real Mask☆DeMasque. But paradoxically, equipped with the answer on the second time through, I find the whole "Whodunit? Is he or isn't he?" mystery to be thrilling good fun. Yeah, I already know the answer because I've played the case before, but it's ... I dunno, it's just fun seeing Capcom throw the player all of this ambiguous evidence that could maybe point to the one conclusion or that could maybe point to the other.

When I started this case again, I noted that every single case in the history of the Phoenix Wright games up through this point had been a homicide case. Every single last one of them! But then this case comes along and breaks the pattern by being about a stolen urn rather than a murder case. I had so utterly forgotten about the murder of Kane Bullard that I got to be completely surprised by it and re-living the fun magic of discovery as though it were my first time playing! Whoops. ^^; But yeah: totally forgot about the entire second half of this case.

I think that when I first played, that could've been really frustrating. You already don't like the characters or the plot premise of the case -- and now you're being "SUPWISE! :3"d that the case is actually 2x longer than you thought it was. But since I'm having a funner time of things this time around, I think that the experience is more similar to discovering that you still have all of timeskip Kanto left to explore when playing GSC for the very first time. It's been a great, fun surprise.

NOT ENOUGH PEARL FEY.

TONS OF PHOENIX x MAYA SHIPPING AMMO.

Last edited by Talon87; 03-30-2015 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:53 AM   #52
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Completed Case 2.

Spoiler: show

It was a fun little story, but the second trial of the case (so October 14, in court) -- particularly once Luke Atmey is summoned -- reaaaaally suffers from the classic Ace Attorney problem of, "Whether too smart for the game or too stupid, I'm presenting the right evidence at the wrong time, have no idea what the game wants me to do, and am forced to systematically present one third of the evidence before advancing the game." It sucks and it's unfortunate. Wasn't so bad in AA1. Became worse in AA2. I recall it being extremely bad in AA3, and I guess this is the first sign of it. Were it not for the ability to save your game mid-trial and soft reset to the title screen every time you guess wrong, a.k.a. tactically cheat, this would probably ruin the game outright for many players. But because you can do that, it just means you get to feel like a bit of a cheater as the trade-off for not having to replay the same half an hour of gameplay again and again and again.

Godot is a good character, but I had forgotten just how unimpressive of a prosecutor he is compared with Miles or Franziska. For first-time players: he gets better as a character as the game proceeds, so don't worry.

There are many more typos in this game than in previous Ace Attorney titles. One very unfortunate one was:



"In," suffice it to say, is not supposed to be there.
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:21 PM   #53
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Halfway through Case 3. As with the post two above this one, I'll provide nested spoiler breadcrumbs so that you can tell if the main body of text (located in the second spoiler box currently visible) is safe for you to read or not.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the part where you encounter Xin Eohp.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the first witness taking the witness stand.

Spoiler: show
Which was Gumshoe. I'm also past the second witness taking the witness stand.

Spoiler: show
Which was Victor Kudo. I'm also done with the first day of court.

And I've just reached Trés [sic] Bien for the first time since our day in court.

Alright, so if you've already gotten past everything I just wrote about, then feel free to click the box below with impunity!

Spoiler: show
I'm enjoying the case okay so far. Of the three experiences on my replay, this case is definitely the weakest one yet. It's not bad, but it's not particularly good either. I don't know what it is but both AA2 and AA3 have their weakest case in the third slot. AA1's was obviously the tutorial case, and AA4 I won't say since I'm assuming there will be readers here who haven't gotten to that game yet, but yeah. "The Curse of the Threes" or something.

One thing that helps this case out against its AA2 cousin is that I find the characters to overall be more enjoyable. Victor Kudo stands out as neither a particularly weak nor a particularly strong Wendy Oldbag-esque character, but where he does stand out is in being uniquely his own man and not simply a genderswapped Oldbag clone. I think he's probably my favorite of the characters unique to this case. And I like him, whereas even if I had to pick a favorite character for AA2 Case 3 (unique to Case 3, of course) I don't think I could pick one of whom I could also say, "And I like this character, as well." I'm not particularly keen on M. Armstrong, but I can similarly say of him that if I were to identify his AA2 Case 3 counterpart then I would like Armstrong a whole heck of a lot more than that character.

One thing that hurts this case relative to its sisters and cousins is just how stupid "Xin Eohp" is, both the individual as well as the concept. Focusing on just the concept, I'll say that I think it's stupid ... stupidly ridiculous that people could mistake Xin for Phoenix. I get that it's supposed to be something of a cute, quasi-meta joke -- "People tell Phoenix apart from others by his spiky hair and blue suit!" -- but it strains belief that anyone in this legal system could have mistaken Xin for Phoenix.

One thing that I enjoy about this case is the evidence pool. Case 2 had a good evidence pool too, but something about Case 3's evidence pool just feels a lot more fun and ... richer, I guess you could say.

Finally, one observation that is only safe for players who have completed the final case of AA3:

Spoiler: show
IF YOU HAVEN'T BEATEN CASE 5 YET, TURN BACK NOW!

Spoiler: show
It's good fun to see the breadcrumbs that were dropped by Takumi Hansel that point to Godot's inability to see things that are red. I might have already missed one in Case 2, don't think I did, but the game does a rather prominent job of bringing it to the player's attention in Case 3, so much so that I couldn't help but to notice it with a smile. First-time players will surely notice the curiosity as well but not be able to quite put two and two together yet -- or perhaps not even realize that there is a two and two needing to be put together! -- but second-time players will see the clues as clear as day.
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:23 AM   #54
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At the very top of Part 4 of Case 3.

Spoiler: show
Not too much to say other than this: I hit another roadblock and it was really very frustrating. It was the failure to present Victor Kudo's profile to Maggie. I knew I didn't have enough evidence to break all of Violetta's / Viola's psyche-locks yet. No one was returning to the cafe. Nothing I presented to Maggie or Victor did anything new. (I'd already presented everything reasonable -- and then some -- to all four eligible parties.) And finally Miss Lisa Basil ... her I knew I was ready to crack, but for some strange reason the game counted me wrong when I tried to show Lisa the CD or the newspaper, each mentioning MC Bomber, every time I tried to break her third psyche-lock. I re-examined every corner of every room. I presented 50% to 80% of the evidence to everybody. And I presented 25% to 50% of the profiles to them too! Nothing. So I grew frustrated and checked a walkthrough to see what I'd missed. When I saw it, I couldn't believe it ... Really, Shuu? Fucking Victor Kudo to present to Maggie Byrde? Really? That is so friggin' unclear.

So I'm much less angry with myself for consulting the walkthrough (still upset though) than I am at how the series really falls apart at the seams re:this problem as time goes on. It's just stupid. Poor design, really, I hate to say. An otherwise great -- or frankly too easy? -- experience is blemished by an element so unclear, so unhinted at, that the average player would be forced to brute force to get around. You shouldn't have to brute force these games ever. Completely kills the mood.

That aside, I still love my Phoenix Wright and I'm still looking forward to the second phase of the trial.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:07 PM   #55
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Finished Case 3!

Spoiler: show
It was pretty decent. The wrap-up went a lot quicker -- and a lot easier! -- than I thought it would. I figured there'd be a lot more to do with Viola and Bruno Cadaverini than there was. Maybe even something similar to Matt Engarde (AA2 Case 4), with Don Tigre begging the judge to throw the book at him such that Tigre is given prison protection such that -- he hopes -- Bruno's long arm can't reach him. But nope. Pretty brief exploration of the articles of evidence, pretty quick for me to play through it. Only a few swings and misses here or there but nothing too major.

It's pretty funny how heavy the Gumshoe x Maggie shipping is supported in this case when, in Ace Attorney 2, there's nary a hint of Gumshoe crushing on Maggie to this extent. I dunno: I think that Gumshoe in love is cute but that Maggie doesn't reciprocate strongly enough for me to find the couple cute.

Armstrong is such a sack of shit. I vaguely recall that at the end of the game, when they show you a montage of people (as is tradition with Ace Attorney games), that Armstrong makes an appearance and tries to be all cutesy-wootsy. If I'm remembering right and he does, then my reaction to that of "FUCK THAT GUY, MAN! " sure does make sense. Because yeah, seriously: fuck that guy. What an asshole. He deserves to go to jail for a laundry list of reasons. Multiple counts of perjury, assisted murder, theft ... guy is just a massive tool. Thinks he's a cute special flower, wants to be a cute special flower, is a terrible person.

Just started Case 4. Maybe about ten or so minutes in.

Spoiler: show
God Mia Fey is so hot in this game. Even Gumshoe remarks on her captivating beauty!

Diego Armando is pretty sexy as well. While he's a little too cologne in personality for my shipping tastes, I like him a lot and I really enjoy his interactions with Mia. Very suave, very cool. Maybe a little too cool. (Cologne.) But cool.

Not crazy thrilled about the rediscovery that Mia Fey's very first case:
  1. was a loss
  2. was against Miles Edgeworth as prosecutor
  3. was Miles's first case as well
A is not a spoiler since, courtesy of Game 1, we know that Miles Edgeworth had never lost a case prior to losing to Phoenix Wright. And as for all three of A, B, and C, yeah, man, I just don't like them. :\ ^^; Sucks that Mia's very first case as a trial lawyer will end the way that it does. Also kinda cosmic-silly that Miles would be her very first opponent. Like, it does weird things to the canon of AA1. Why didn't Mia make a bigger deal to Phoenix when she saw that his own first opponent would be Edgeworth? Why was Miles set up to be Phoenix's rival rather than Mia's? (Granted, Phoenix was childhood friends with the guy, knew him longer, etc etc, and also Mia kinda died. But still!) I dunno, it just feels really noticeable, really "We thought of this idea only after reaching the creation of Game 3. We never had this idea in mind when writing Game 1's script."

Now some Case 4 comments & observations that are only safe to read strictly after you have beaten the final case of the game:

Spoiler: show
Case 5 spoilers! In case you didn't get the memo.

Spoiler: show
Very intrigued but confused by the fact that the victim in the current case, Miss Valerie Hawthorne, shares in common the same surname as Dahlia. Like, I don't remember Morgan having 4+ daughters. I remember her having specifically three daughters -- Dahlia, Iris, and Pearl. Yet undeniably here we have a beautiful young woman who bears the same surname as Dahlia and Iris.

Trying to remember and/or re-deduce who fell off the bridge and why. I feel really very confident that it was either Dahlia or Iris, but unfortunately neither guess makes perfect sense!
If it was Iris who fell: this makes sense out of everything regarding Iris but little else besides. For instance, it makes sense out of why Iris would've been raised by monks in a Buddhist monastery / why she'd be a nun by the time of AA3 Case 5. She fell, she maybe struck her head and got amnesia, she was rescued by Buddhist monks downstream, and they took her back to the monastery and raised her as one of their own. But it doesn't make sense out of why Dahlia Hawthorne would've wanted to kill Valerie Hawthorne. Nor does it make sense out of why Dahlia would've wanted to frame Terry Fawles for it. Even if Dahlia is evil, it's pretty stupid of her to go out of her way to kill Valerie and frame Terry for it -- if it's a revenge plot against Terry for killing her beloved sister Iris -- when all she has to do is contact the authorities, tell them of Terry's location, and his ass will be carted back to prison where he awaits execution.

If it was Dahlia who fell: this does the opposite, making sense out of everything else but not the bits pertaining to Iris. If Dahlia fell, we can presume that it's because she threw herself off the bridge deliberately and that she did so to ruin Terry's life. Because she's an evil bitch like that. Then when she finds out that Terry's escaped and is going to rendezvous with the sole witness to the event and try to persuade her to change her testimony, Dahlia realizes that she has to kill two birds with one stone: by killing Valerie Hawthorne, she can not only silence Valerie and thwart the change of testimony but she can also frame Terry for the murder and ensure that he will not only be carted back to prison but that his execution date will be bumped up. And she would do this: because she's Dahlia Hawthorne, evil bitch extraordinaire. The only problem is Iris. None of this explains anything to do with Iris. If Dahlia's the one who fell instead of Iris, then how come Iris wound up being raised by monks at a Buddhist monastery? How come Iris has such a nice personality compared with her twisted sister and mother? (You could point to Pearl, but Pearl is still protected by the veneer of early childhood from Morgan's twisted personality.)
Don't tell me which one it was. I want to rediscover it or re-deduce it on my own. I'm just sharing with you, for your own personal amusement, how I've remembered half the tale but not the entire tale and thus it makes for a personally amusing and exciting replay, as I try to figure out the identity of the woman who fell off the bridge just as though I were a first-timer playing this for my very first time.

Oh, almost forgot: for the record, I'm leaning towards the "Iris is the one who fell" theory. It may not appear to make much sense out of Dahlia's actions re: the murder of Valerie Hawthorne, but it makes too much sense out of Iris's history (or what I think I remember to be Iris's history).
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:47 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Just started Case 4. Maybe about ten or so minutes in.

Spoiler: show
Why didn't Mia make a bigger deal to Phoenix when she saw that his own first opponent would be Edgeworth? Why was Miles set up to be Phoenix's rival rather than Mia's? (Granted, Phoenix was childhood friends with the guy, knew him longer, etc etc, and also Mia kinda died. But still!)
My answer isn't too spoilery for game 3 on its own, but the context of Talon's quote is spoilery, so.

Spoiler: show
It's because Phoenix's first opponent wasn't Edgeworth, it was Winston Payne. Mia couldn't make too big a deal about Edgeworth being Phoenix's second opponent on account of being murdered to bring about the second case in the first place. So, as you said, Miles was set up to be Phoenix's rival because "Mia kinda died." She also did have that psychological block that she had to get over that kept her from defending another person in the interim time between the Guy Fawles and young Phoenix, so it also wouldn't be unreasonable to think that she might avoid dealing with Edgeworth, as it might bring up those bad memories.
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Old 04-06-2015, 06:36 AM   #57
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Ah, had a d'oh moment. Good catch, Muyo, thanks.
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:53 PM   #58
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Completed Case 4.

Spoiler: show
Duration: This was surprisingly short! Like, it's not short short or anything, but like ... in the end its length and presentation makes it almost feel like more of a tutorial case-esque case than even AA3 Case 1 did! None of this is to say that I disliked the case. I enjoyed it greatly and I actually have a difficult time sometimes with the longer cases that can feel like they teasingly keep the finish line just out of reach. I'm just noting that Case 4 is much shorter than its sister non-tutorial cases of 2, 3, and 5.

These next two talking points contain spoilers for Case 5. (They tie in to earlier discussion I offered.)

Spoiler: show
Case 5 spoilers ahoy!

Spoiler: show
Dahlia Jumps: So I did explain it all correctly more or less (but minus the diamond which I'd completely forgotten about) ... but I ultimately called the wrong possibility and went with Iris being the one who fell instead of Dahlia. It all makes sense, of course. I just have the missing piece of the puzzle left to solve which is "How in the hell did Iris wind up at a Buddhist monastery Shinto shrine!? " Guess I'll find out shortly.

Valerie Hawthorne: So, it's confirmed: Valerie Hawthorne is indeed a sister to Dahlia Hawthorne and is thus a sister I'd completely forgotten about. Given that I remembered Morgan as only having three daughters -- Dahlia, Iris, and Pearl -- I'm going to take an educated guess that it goes something like this:
  • Valerie's father is Mr. Hawthorne but her mother is not Morgan Fey
  • Dahlia's and Iris's parents are Mr. Hawthorne and Morgan Fey
  • Pearl's mother is Morgan Fey but her father is someone else
In the same way that Pearl's half-sibling relationship with Dahlia might be used to argue for some distance between them (and some optimistic "She won't turn out like them! " thinking that places more weight on heredity than personal history), Valerie is likely related to Dahlia only through their father and thus can likewise be argued to be "not from the same tree" as Dahlia Hawthorne. (Only poor Iris has to share that genetic burden.) This would explain why I was so certain Morgan only had three daughters -- because she did, because Valerie wasn't one of hers. This would also explain how Valerie, while still beautiful, didn't turn out to look like a near carbon copy of Dahlia or Iris.

Mia's First Case: So, I said last time that I was disappointed her first case would end in a loss. I didn't want to have to further explain my "This is not a spoiler!" warning by providing the unlikely-but-still-possible outcome where Mia neither wins nor loses. Which I considered unlikely because ... well, I just did. I had completely forgotten what ultimately befell Mr. Terry Fawles. (See below.) So I got to be surprised, and delighted by the surprise, to see that Mia did not lose her first case but that neither did Mr. Edgeworth. By having the case end the way that it did, Takumi Shuu does a nice job of:
  • preserving Mia Fey's integrity as a powerful defense attorney
  • retroactively establishing a little rivalry for Edgeworth to feel towards anyone related to Mia Fey, the rookie DA who very nearly cost him his perfect win record right out of the gate; this retroactive filter can be placed atop the events of Games 1 and 2 to give them a little new coloration if one likes
  • not dismantling the history established by AA1 that Edgeworth had never lost a case before AA1 Case 2
Diego Armando: I was surprised that we didn't get to see any references to his death. I could've sworn for sure that we would. Like, I'm not saying we'd see him onscreen grilling Dahlia in the interrogation chamber. I'm just saying that I would've thought that Mia would be cross-examining Terry, rattling sabers with Edgeworth, when all of a sudden a bailiff bursts into the courtroom and informs the judge that Diego Armando's been poisoned.

I also couldn't help but notice that the localization team kept having Mia call him, "Mr. Armando," "Mr. Armando." It makes sense -- it's a faithful translation of Arumando-san from what is probably the original Japanese -- but what gets lost in translation here is that the Japanese don't break out the first name usage anywhere near as soon as we English speakers do and that they'll often keep on calling one another "Mr./Mrs. Surname" even after it's established that one or both parties has feelings for the other. So like ... we know from Case 1 that Diego is Mia's boyfriend. He's referred to as such. Given this, I feel like it would've made more sense for them to have gone with "Diego" in the localized script instead of "Mr. Armando." The latter makes it sound in English like Mia is still too distant / professional with Diego. It makes their love seem a lot more one-sided than it actually (probably) was. Koneko-chan, "Kitten," cleanly translated over into English just fine. But yeah ... all that "Mr. Armando" talk ... ^^;

Terry Fawles: This was pretty darn tragic and really caught me off guard. I must've gone and invented a fictitious memory here as I became convinced, very early on in the case, that I could remember how this story plays out from playing it years before:
  • Mia attempts to get Terry exonerated
  • but Diego dies, Edgeworth asserts that Mia lacks the crucial evidence to pin this all on Dahlia Hawthorne, and her client Terry Fawles is found guilty
  • Terry goes back to prison ...
  • ... and six years later contacts Mr. Phoenix Wright, asking him to re-open the case and clear his name
Something like that. Like, the thing is, I could've sworn I distinctly remember Terry standing at the witness stand, upright, as the celebratory confetti rains down from the ceiling and the high-pitched celebratory whistles fill the chamber. So to see Terry poison himself via Dahlia's present ... it just came as a huge, "Whoa wtf oh nooooo, Terry ..." moment. Really good.

The gameplay: This was probably the strongest gameplay of the game thus far. Fun evidence that was very self-explanatory without being too insultingly easy. A few challenges here or there but ones which I almost entirely made my way over unhindered. (One or two hiccups here or there ... ) Also some of the best logic rallies in the game between Mia and Edgeworth, with fantastic musical scoring that went just brilliantly with my reading pace.

While it doesn't quite feel the same to have a Phoenix Wright case where you don't do any of the fieldwork yourself, it's admittedly a welcome break to, once every now and then, have a case where you can just stay put in the courtroom and have all of the evidence and eyewitnesses come to you. It helped to speed things along -- clearly; shortest case since Case 1 -- while at the same time not compromising the integrity of the story.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:09 PM   #59
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Case 5. Just reached the Detention Center for the first time.

Spoiler: show
HOOOOOLY SHIT! This is already such a great case. But cutting ahead in line ... I had COMPLETELY forgotten that you play as Miles Edgeworth in this case! I'm fairly certain that it won't be forever -- I don't think they'd have written what at the time they thought was the very last case of the franchise and have you not be in control of Phoenix Wright -- but I can honestly say that I have zero recollection of when Phoenix will tag back in.

In a lot of ways, getting to play as Edgeworth the defense attorney reminds me of Seto Kaiba's story arc in the final season of Yu-Gi-Oh!. All series long, Kaiba has professed zero belief in the supernatural, always looking for normal explanations for the spiritual phenomena he bears witness to. It's not until the final season, where he's placed in the driver's seat and has to help rescue Yugi, that he accepts the reality of the spirits. Similar to all this, we have Miles Edgeworth here, now in command of Phoenix's magatama. Edgeworth is all, "Spirits? Psycholocks? Please. " And then he witnesses Iris's Psyche-Locks for himself. And he's forced to admit that holy shit Wright was right all along about this spirit stuff.

Backing up now ...

I really love Phoenix's interactions with Iris, and just Iris in general. She's so beautiful inside and out that you can't help but to love her. And it's quite clear that she cares about Phoenix.

That stated, I love even more how the writing -- despite introducing Phoenix x Iris -- quite clearly supports Phoenix x Maya as well. Maya's dialogue is realistically written: the girl in love who hides her jealousy of Phoenix's interest in Iris by pretending to not even like Phoenix in that manner and who does all the "Woooooohoo, lover boy! ;p" "K-I-S-S-I-N-G!" talk. But even better than that is Phoenix's side of the equation. The story establishes that Phoenix is terrified of crossing Dusky Bridge and that traversing it makes him sick to his stomach every time. He crosses it twice earlier in the story and each time he gets green in the face doing so. So then when he witnesses that Dusky Bridge, a rickety ol' rope bridge, is on fire, does he stay where he is and call 911? No! He death-defyingly leaps onto the bridge -- "I gotta save Mayaaaa!" -- despite Larry Butz's protestations! I feel that AA2 Case 4, with a similar event on Phoenix's part, already made clear just how much Phoenix cares about Maya. But if you had any doubts, AA3 Case 5 washes them all away with the bridge scene. It's clear: time and again, Phoenix Wright risks his own life to save Maya Fey.

Pearl is adorable in the scenes in Act 1. Oh my gosh. The most darling little girl getting to meet her favorite children's literature author. I love how Miss Deauxnim interacts with Pearl too.

I had completely forgotten that Larry was in this case until they mentioned "Laurice Deauxnim" and I recognized instantly who that was.

Loving the set pieces / the areas you get to visit.
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:36 PM   #60
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Case 5. Almost done questioning the first person to testify.

Spoiler: show
So OH MY GOD, Franziska happened , I had totally forgotten. ("FOOL! ")

This case is a really fun whodunit. Of course "the problem is" that I largely know the answer to that question already. But knowing and playing back through a second time is fun in its own way. And since I have pretty much forgotten everything that connects A with B, there's still a lot of enjoyable (re-)discovery to he had.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:11 PM   #61
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Case 5. Not much farther since my last post -- the second witness has shown us something -- but I'm posting right now because I wanted to gush-discuss-share what I believe I have remembered. See, I was heading out this morning when it all hit me; and I think I have, through a combination of deductive reasoning and memory recall, figured out what all happened in this case. Spoilers for the very end of the case follow:

Spoiler: show
I said, SPOILERS FOR THE VERY END OF CASE 5 FOLLOW! Sorry. Just wanted to make absolutely certain no one gets spoiled who doesn't want to be. Here we go!

Spoiler: show
So obviously the things you're not gonna forget about this case, even years and years later, are:
  1. That Godot is the culprit, that he is ultimately found guilty, etc.
    • But he's a tragic culprit! One we the audience feel sorry for.
  2. That Morgan Fey hatched a plan to transfer Dahlia's soul into Pearl's body.
  3. That Misty Fey dies.
I could list more, but these are the big three, no need to list much more than this. The point I want to make is, I did forget the following:
  • How Godot did it.
  • Why Godot did it.
  • Why Godot would even be there.
So as I was on the road today, it suddenly all came back to me. I think. I wanted to share these thoughts with you guys below such that we can either enjoy a) how well I've remembered the truth or else b) an interesting but incorrect alternate version of the events.

So okay. What I think I remember is ...

Morgan Fey's plan was to transfer Dahlia's soul into Pearl's body. It's because Morgan favors Dahlia best, "evil likes evil," I dunno, something like that. And because Pearl of course has the greatest spiritual potential of any living member of the Kurain family and branch families. So you get the ultimate soul (per Morgan's belief) inside the ultimate body. Makes sense.

Well, somehow or other Misty Fey gets word of this, gets word that Maya and Pearl will be heading to Hazakura Temple in the near future and that there they will be at risk of an attack by Morgan Fey. So Misty decides to go there to shield her little niece.

Misty, under the alias of Elise Deauxnim, introduces herself to Pearl. And she gifts Pearl ... the purple orb inside of her wizard's staff. This orb is embued with spiritual powers which should shield Pearl from Dahlia & Morgan's shenanigans. As for herself, Misty hopes that she is spiritually powerful enough to fend off any attacks. It's Pearl she's worried about, as a) it's Pearl they're after and b) Pearl is quite vulnerable given her lack of training.

Well, Morgan's plan goes off. And Dahlia's soul exits her body and begins to make its way towards Hazakura Temple. (Or, more specifically, towards the Inner Temple where Maya and Pearl are.) There's just one problem: Pearl Fey is no longer an eligible target. Shielded by the purple orb, Pearl can't be touched by Dahlia Hawthorne.

Think about a bolt of lightning. Once the discharge has begun there's no stopping it: it has to find a terminus. Dahlia's out-of-body experience is similar. And while that terminus could very well be the body of Dahlia Hawthorne herself, i.e. the soul could be forced to make the long trek back to the prison cell from whence it just came, if there are other eligible targets nearby then it will enter into one of them.

So ... Pearl is off the table, because purple orb. And Maya is off the table, presumably because reasons? Or maybe she just isn't as juicy a target as the one I'm about to say. But what we do have ... is Miss Elise Deauxnim. Or should I say, Mystic Misty Fey. Dahlia's spirit sees Misty and homes in on her. And Misty tries to fight Dahlia's spirit off. But she can't! Who knows why. Old age? Less powerful than Dahlia? Caught off guard? I don't remember the reasoning and look forward to rediscovering it as I play, but the point is -- Misty Fey is overwhelmed by the spirit of Dahlia Hawthorne and her body becomes possessed by it.

So where does Prosecutor Godot factor into all of this? Remember: Misty Fey knew all of this was going to go down before it even happened. I suspect that she planned for the eventuality that Dahlia might overcome her. And she solicited the good prosecutor's help, beseeching him to kill her if she should show signs of having been taken over by Dahlia Hawthorne. Godot, for his part, was probably appalled by the suggestion that he take Misty Fey's life. But Misty probably talked him into it and Godot acquiesced. "But only if you're possessed and it doesn't seem like I can get you back ..." or some such, I can see him having told her.

So now we go back to the time of Misty's death. I imagine it went down like this: Dahlia's spirit is looking for Pearl but the purple orb obstructs her. Then it sees defenseless Misty Fey and homes in. Penetrates and takes over. Now we have one of the most evil spirits in the history of the Phoenix Wright games in control of one of the strongest channelers alive. (And arguably the strongest, given that Pearl is still green.) Making matters worse, Dahlia can always attempt to steal Pearl's body for herself again later if she wants to. It's not like this one-time failure has to be the end for her. She can just try again next year. Or maybe wait until Pearl's a little older. In the meantime, she can pretend to be her aunt and rule the Kurain school with an iron fist. Well, Godot ain't havin' none of that. He made a promise to Misty Fey ... and he intends to keep it. *SHHHUNK!* He stabs Misty in the back with a knife (or some other piercing tool). And so ends the life of Misty Fey.

So you see ... this is how Godot is still a hero ... but at the same time is guilty in the eyes of the law of first-degree murder.

I think I'm right. But please, let's allow me to rediscover over the course of normal gameplay just how right or wrong I am. Oh, and one last thing:

Spoiler: show
Case 5 end-of-case spoilers.

Spoiler: show
I still haven't remembered or figured out how the color red -- and Godot's inability to see red objects -- is going to factor into this case. Misty's orb on loan to Pearl is purple, we haven't seen any other orbs yet, fire (and Larry's drawings of it) contains numerous colors, etc. The only thing I can really think of would be blood, but even then the blood we've seen so far doesn't seem like the sort of thing the good prosecutor could miss in a case report. Misty's pool of blood beneath her body ... the blood on the tip of the Shichishito ... it's all mentioned pretty clearly in the court documents, so even if Godot can't see the blood on the genuine articles he can still know it exists. Anyway ...
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Old 04-11-2015, 07:26 PM   #62
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Case 5. Currently I'm ... hmm, time for the return of the nested spoiler clues!

Spoiler: show
I'm past the first day in court.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the return to the other side of Dusky Bridge, i.e. to the Inner Temple.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the discovery of the Garden.

Spoiler: show
I have found a red protection charm.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the earthquake.

Spoiler: show
I'm past the discovery of four new locks on the door inside the Inner Temple.

Spoiler: show
I interrogated Iris, broke four out of her five Psyche-Locks, but had to give up when for her fifth lock she demanded proof that there are two of her.

Spoiler: show
I interrogated Pearl, broke one of her five Psyche-Locks, but had to give up when she demanded I-don't-even-remember-what.

Spoiler: show
I've just returned to Sister Bikini, sharing with her that everyone's safe, the Inner Temple didn't collapse, but that four new locks appeared. Saved right around there and had to call it a night.

If you reached the end of that spoiler tag tree without being spoiled on anything, then you're 100% clear to read what I have to say next:

Spoiler: show
I'm really enjoying this case. Takumi Shuu has a flare for the grandiose, having everything come together in a grand and dare we say epic way in this, the final case of the game and what many thought at the time could very well be the final case in the Phoenix Wright story. I sympathize with first-time players who are surely agonizing over the mysterious Iris -- her identity, her loyalties, all of it. And I can hear their sighs of relief upon seeing Pearl Fey unharmed -- I remember that experience myself half a decade ago!

The current phase of the case (Part III, a.k.a. the second investigation phase) suffers a liiiiiiiittle bit for too much having to go from A to B to C to D to E (rather than simply A to B to C, or even just A to B) and with eeeeeeeeevery arrival at a new location triggering a mandatory conversation with someone new. Mind, I don't mind what they have to share with me -- I'd be clicking on them to spill the beans anyway if they weren't already so willing! -- but it does get a little irritating sometimes when you know you want to find the key to Person A's Psyche-Locke but then you have to listen to Person B talk, and then Person B has a Psyche-Locke of their own so you now have to go and look for that, only to run into Person C and ... yeah, it's just a wee bit irritating. Not too bad though. The characters are too fun, the plot too thrilling for it to be too detrimental to the experience.

As for what follows here, it's only safe for you to read if you've completed Case 5.

Spoiler: show
CASE 5 SPOILERS FOR THE VERY END! Just sayin'. Friendly reminder.

Spoiler: show
Much of the information introduced since my last post has introduced wrinkles into my theory about how the murder played out and why. Going through them one at a time ...

Misty's purple orb: I had hypothesized that this was given by Misty to Pearl in order to keep Pearl safe from Dahlia. I could still be right ... but ... it's kinda hard to explain how Misty Fey's blood could have gotten onto an orb held tightly to by Pearl, and it's similarly hard to argue why Pearl, once the orb had gotten blood onto it, would've continued to hold onto it. So I don't think it was the purple orb that Misty gave to Pearl (see below), though I admit that it could still have been. I need more information.

Misty's protection charm: the omamori belonging to the leader of the Kurain School was discovered since my last post, and it seems like the most logical candidate now for what Misty would've gifted to Pearl to protect her. My thinking is, "You hold onto the charm, Pearl dear, and I'll keep holding on to my purple orb." The red charm is likely far stronger in its ability to protect than the purple orb is; Misty would've lent Pearl the more powerful of the two objects since Pearl requires their help to shield herself against Dahlia. As for why Misty didn't give the girl both of them, it's probably just because Misty acknowledged that she isn't God and that she at least needed something herself to shield her against Dahlia. So a purple orb for Misty and a red charm for Pearl.

Iris's location: this has been a really fun one for me to try and logic out since I have truly forgotten the answer and both possible answers -- Hazakura Temple and the Inner Temple -- seem to not make 100% sense with the information currently available to me. If Hazakura, then one has to ask why Iris would've participated in a staged murder act at 11pm. If Inner Temple, then one must ask how Dahlia Hawthorne could've been at Hazakura Temple at 11pm when Prosecutor Godot should have already driven her away by killing Misty Fey while Dahlia was in possession of Misty's body.

Further complicating the analysis is the lack of information pertaining to Misty's plan's efficacy. In plain English: I don't yet know whether killing a host is effective or not in thwarting Morgan's and Dahlia's plans. If you kill the host, does Dahlia's spirit go back to her body in jail? And whether or not it does, can the spirit immediately seek out a new body again? Or would it have to wait for a second ritual to be carried out before it could get another chance at possessing someone new? 'Cause depending on the answers to these questions ...

Maya's fate: ... Maya Fey may or may not currently be being possessed by Dahlia Hawthorne -- and I simply don't know it yet. That's the thing. When asking the question, "Why would they lock Maya away like that?" the answer that comes to mind for me is that Maya may not currently be Maya -- she may be Maya's body possessed by Dahlia's spirit, and they may be worried that she'll hurt somebody, that she'll throw Maya under the bus at court, etc. I dunno. I simply don't remember.

Iris's location (cont): Continuing with what I was saying before, I am also not yet sure what the deal is with Dusky Bridge. First off, how on earth they managed to get a dead body across it! The narrative makes it seem like the bridge is ready to go at any minute, that Phoenix fears for his life each time he crosses; also that it's very precarious. So how on earth could anyone cross the bridge whilst carrying a dead body over their shoulder? Seems kinda crazy. Second, who exactly did cross it? Was it Dahlia or was it Iris? Who did Larry see? Third, which direction were they going as they crossed? Towards Hazakura Temple or towards the Inner Temple? Fourth, were they traversing the bridge (horizontal plane) or were they falling off the bridge? (I seem to remember something like this, that Larry's picture is upside-down or some such and that the girl we flying over the bridge is in fact falling down off of the bridge.)

Anyway, it's been a load of fun getting to be re-surprised by the case and getting to try to figure everything out again. Obviously I've got the benefits of "Cliff's Notes" this time, having played the case once before and being absolutely certain about Morgan's motive (get Pearl's body to Dahlia) and Godot being the legally-defined culprit, but for the most part I've forgotten so much of the interstitial data that it's like I get to figure it out all over again right on up until the very end when I'm sure it'll all come cascading together in a mix of memories and in-game plot reveals.
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:05 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
[spoiler]CASE 5 SPOILERS FOR THE VERY END! Just sayin'. Friendly reminder.

Spoiler: show
does Dahlia's spirit go back to her body in jail?
I don't want to throw a wrench into any of your theories and ruin any of your enjoyment, but I do think I should clarify one thing. Think back to case 2 in Justice For All, Talon.
(Spoilers for aforementioned case)
Spoiler: show
Maya fails to summon Mimi Miney's spirit because Mimi was still alive.


Which of course (spoilers for case 5)
Spoiler: show
Has some pretty big implications for Dahlia's fate before the events of case 5 unfold.
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Old 04-12-2015, 06:32 AM   #64
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End-of-case spoilers. Response:

Spoiler: show
Well, I don't remember the technique being the same thing as what was seen in AA2 Case 2. For starters, Maya would have to be pretty fucking stupid to not recognize that the "Special Course" of Sister Bikini's is nothing more than the Kurain Channeling Technique she's been doing since AA1. Second, I can't even begin to fathom how Morgan could've hoped to have Maya seance Dahlia's spirit using the KCT. Using an unfamiliar second technique, sure, but not the KCT proper.

Furthermore, from what I vaguely recall of the case, it was always intended as a true body swap: Pearl's soul would wind up in Dahlia's body on Death Row while Dahlia's soul would wind up in Pearl's body. Then Dahlia (containing Pearl's soul) would be executed and that would be that as far as Morgan's concerned: no loose ends, no more chance of Pearl telling the world what really happened. If what you're saying is true and Dahlia is in fact already dead, then it doesn't really make much sense to me that Dahlia could've permanently traded places with Pearl: it would have to imply that Maya Fey was at risk of being replaced by a vengeful spirit in AA2.

Not saying you're wrong. You clearly exude the confidence of a man who either remembers the case better than I do or who freshened up with Wikia spoilers recently. I'm just saying, I fundamentally do not recall Dahlia already being dead and this ritual being a copy-paste of AA2's. Thought it was its own sister technique, one forbidden to less experienced members of the Kurain school (or indeed forbidden period given its ethical implications) that Maya was trying out under the guidance of Sister Bikini and, unknowingly, the interference of Morgan Fey.

I wouldn't say more in response to this specific discussion. If you do, I won't read it until I complete the case.

EDIT: On second thought, I have a change of position regarding one specific thing. (End-of-case spoilers for Case 5.)

Spoiler: show
I guess I always thought of the Kurain channelers as being psychic mediums with multiple powers, of which their signature power -- and the basis for the foundation of their school -- is the Kurain Channeling Technique, the ability to summon a spirit from the dead into the summoner's own body and to grant that spirit some degree of control during the time it's there.

But when I think about it, I guess it's unfair of me to presume that Maya's training should have anything to do with anything else besides seancing the dead. All we've ever seen her do is precisely that. Why expect anything else now?

So I take back what I said about the "pretty fucking stupid not to realize it's the KCT" bit. She can't have not recognized it -- not when it's precisely what she went there to train about, I guess. I hadn't thought that that was what she had gone to do, but that was presumptive on my part and I have only myself to blame for being wrong.

Last edited by Talon87; 04-12-2015 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:02 AM   #65
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THE PLOT THICKENS! (Continuation of end-of-case-spoilers discussion.)

Spoiler: show
Gumshoe just gave me the burnt letter. I didn't remember this until reading it, but now I understand: Maya isn't the one who summoned Dahlia -- Pearl is.* Morgan tricked Pearl into summoning Dahlia's spirit. Ahaaaaaaaa ... Now it all makes sense. Well, per your spoiler (;p) that Dahlia's dead already. But now I see ... it wasn't so much a "body swap" as it was a body takeover. Which means ...

Now I get to excitedly wonder about who it was exactly that got taken over by Dahlia -- Pearl, Misty, and/or Maya. * I'm guessing Pearl didn't (because Mystic Misty to the rescue), but the fact that any of the three of them could've done it possibly clarifies how Dahiris could've been in so many places in such short time.
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:29 AM   #66
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IT'S HAPPENING! (Safe to click if you've gotten the man in the Garden to name a certain person.) (Case 5 Part 3-2 spoilers.)

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Last edited by Talon87; 04-12-2015 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:21 PM   #67
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OH, HOW THE PLOT THICKENS! (Safe if you've reached Part 4-2 of Case 5.)

Spoiler: show


She's baaaaaaack!

I did not remember this position swap and boy was it exciting.

Okay, now on to end-of-case discussion. (Sorry, first-time players! ^^; )

Spoiler: show
So, new plot details and how they confirm/refute/confuse my hypotheses:

First off, Dahlia claims that Morgan didn't give a shit about her, even wanted her dead ASAP (so as to set the plan into motion sooner?), and has eyes only for Pearl. I can believe this if it's true, but it goes against everything I thought I remembered about the Morgan-Pearl relationship, specifically that Takumi enables players to fully despise Morgan by taking her semi-sympathizable AA2 self and rendering her wholly despicable in AA3 by canonically only viewing Pearl as the means to an end rather than as a genuinely beloved child.

Second, the game is sending some pretty clear signals that Dahlia is currently in possession of Maya Fey's body and that Iris is locked up in the Inner Temple. I'm fine with this in the present, but going back to the night of the murder it confuses me. If I misremembered / mistheorized about Misty summoning Dahlia herself so as to protect Pearl, and if it was really Maya Fey who summoned her, then how come Godot stabbed Misty instead of Maya? If I instead remembered correctly / theorized correctly, and Misty did in fact summon Dahlia, then how/why did Dahlia manage to find her way into Maya afterwards?

Third, the game's revealed Godot's can't-see-red moment for this case: the blood on the lantern.

Fourth, a dagger's been revealed but it's not yet clear who used the cane-sword (if anybody) on who and who used the dagger (if anybody) on who. It seems at this point that the cane-sword's a red herring not used by anyone and that the dagger was used by Godot to stab Misty-Dahlia. But we'll see.
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Old 04-13-2015, 03:13 PM   #68
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Completed Case 5. Alright, everyone, let's all gather 'round: nothing left to spoil because we've crossed the finish line.

Spoiler: show
Oh, man. One of the best cases in the history of the franchise. In fact, of the games I have played -- AA1 thru AA4 and then ME1 to boot -- this is probably the second greatest case of them all for me and is along those same lines either my second favorite or, if I put AA2 Case 2 ahead of it, my third favorite. It's just such a great case. Fun characters, a thrilling whodunit plot, and wonderful combinations of universe building and universe-tying-previously-established-things-together. Maya, Pearl, Godot, Dahlia, Iris, Morgon, Misty, Mia ... it's all just so good. I've said it once, I'll say it again: you can well appreciate how this case was originally intended as a fond farewell to Phoenix & Co. in case there were never another Ace Attorney game (or in case, even if there were another Ace Attorney game, there were never another game featuring Phoenix & Friends as main characters).

Re-visiting my theory from early on ...

I might have given Misty Fey a little too much credit. I think it's ambiguous, ambiguous enough to comfortably permit me my theory that she and Godot powwowed and that Misty beseeched him to kill her should she be taken over by Dahlia. But having now replayed the game and heard Godot's recounting of the events, it sounds like it's just as possible -- if not downright more likely -- that he acted on the spur of the moment, making a split-second decision to save Maya Fey no matter what. So there's that. (To be clear, though: they totally powwowed. That much is canon. Godot, Misty, and Iris all got together -- with Godot, not Misty, as chief orchestrator -- and agreed to work together to protect Maya from coming to harm.)

Next, they never did indicate that Misty gave Pearl the Kurain Master's protective charm to keep her safe. Instead, it seems to be implied that the charm fell off of Misty-Dahlia during the fight with Godot in the garden; and that, taking one step back, Pearl was never in a position to receive it because Misty never saw Pearl again after dinner that night. (It's not a 100% done deal, but the narrative seems to suggest this.) So as far as that faux memory of mine went, it was just plain wrong. A good theory, but incorrect.

Finally, the answer to my question of how/why Maya would have channeled Dahlia if Godot already slayed Misty-Dahlia. Well, it's explained! Sure enough, there are zero limits on Pearl's being able to attempt the Kurain Channeling Technique and thus zero limits on how many opportunities Dahlia Hawthorne could have had to be brought back to this world. Recognizing this fact, Mia Fey counsels her sister to summon Dahlia's spirit ASAP. This counseling takes place after Maya reawakens inside the Inner Temple's training chamber, having been carried there by Godot (following the fight in the garden). So basically 1) Godot slays Misty-Dahlia, 2) Dahlia is in a brief limbo state (technically I guess she should have returned to Hell or wherever it is that her spirit resides), 3) Maya does a seance with Mia, 4) Mia leaves behind a note for Maya to read, 5) Maya exits the seance with Mia, 6) Maya reads the note, and finally 7) Maya puts her sister's plan into action by summoning Dahlia Hawthorne whilst behind bars. Why she does it is explained simply: Dahlia believes herself to be inside of Pearl Fey while her target is Maya Fey; and therefore Dahlia would not commit suicide in order to carry out her objective of killing Maya Fey. It was risky (though the game never portrays it this way; they make it seem like more of a foolproof strategy that utterly outwitted Stupid Dahlia), but it was a risk the sisters were willing to take and it paid off.

In the end, I feel like the game provides so much more fuel for Phoenix x Maya shipping than it does for Phoenix x Iris shipping. Iris admits to being a co-conspirator and, while she escapes the guilty verdict for the murder of Misty Fey, is still convicted of her other crimes and sentenced to an unknown period of time in prison. (Phoenix visits her at least once, having a conversation with her at the Detention Center.) While Iris is generally sweet, this little spurt of impurity feels like the sort of thing that places her in a different world from Phoenix Wright. Maya, on the other hand, remains a pure girl in both heart and actions. Furthermore, and I'll admit a lot of this is what you bring to the table when you read the dialogue, but ... I feel like Phoenix's interactions with Iris are more like those of a guy who already got over the girl years ago (and has since moved on to Miss Right) and a girl who for her part is still crushing on the boy she dated for six months six years ago. Meanwhile his relationship with Maya feels very, very strongly like that classic relationship status that drives so many shippers crazy -- the halfway-between-friends-and-lovers zone. Is Maya a surrogate little sister to Phoenix? Is she his surrogate daughter? Best friend? Or is she something more? Pearl obviously seems to think so. And I think it's kinda telling, throughout the games, how Phoenix gets so worried about Maya's safety time and again, so much more so than any other character in the series, and likewise telling that Maya doesn't really tell Pearl off. She just sidesteps Pearl's insinuations completely. While that's not so common in anime, what with the whole tsundere trope, I feel like it's incredibly common in real life. Anyway ... I like Iris too, don't get me wrong , I just think I'd prefer to see Phoenix wind up with Maya more than anyone else I've met in-universe up to this point.

If you take Part 4-3 of the case as a whole to be Godot's explanation of why he did what he did, then it's just about as long as I remembered it being. But if you only count the part from when you get Godot to admit he did it (the last, ultimate time) and go on from there to when we exit the courtroom, then it's a whole lot shorter than I remembered.

Still, Godot's story is really quite nice. I remember when I first picked the game up that I was worried the series had jumped the shark with Godot. I mean, Franziska was fine but she was already inferior to Edgeworth. And now in Godot I felt like we had this really dopey-looking antagonist who you could never expect to find in real life today. But sure enough, by the end of the game you really grow to like Godot and appreciate how, in a number of ways, he was the very best opponent we could have asked for in a game which was trying to tie up all of the Fey family loose ends.

The revelation that Mia and Maya broke the Ami vase when they were kids too was kinda cute ... but it also would seem to suggest then that this vase has been shattered more times than there are years in one man's life. ^^; Because by our count alone, we've already seen it broken three times: once by Pearl (AA2 Case 2), once by Adrian Andrews (AA3 Case 2), and now once by Mia and/or Maya (AA2 Case 5, flashback). If Ami Fey's soul ever did reside inside that vase, I think it's safe to say it was long gone before Pearls broke it. ^^;



Finally, my playtime! I chose to play the game on my 3DS. The downside was, it made the game a little less pretty than it would have been on a proper DS. (Because upscaling.) But one of the upsides was that it meant I could count on the 3DS to log my play time even though the game itself does not. So it looks like I played for around 31 hours, averaging ~6 hours per case. Obviously they're not all of equal length. I would estimate that the playtimes go something like 4 hours, 6 hours, 6 hours, 4 hours, and 10 hours respectively for the five cases. Rough estimates, but something like that.

Last but not least, a little list of pop culture references I kept in a notepad file as I came across them. These don't contain any plot spoilers but cover ground from every case, so whether you choose to click now or only after you complete the game is up to you.

Spoiler: show
This is an incomplete list, to be sure, but represents the ones that stood out enough to me to be worth sharing or commenting on:

Case 1: Mr. Grossberg says that his hemorrhoids are doing "the Harlem Shake" at one point. This reference is particularly amusing since it predates the Harlem Shake meme that everyone is now familiar with! He's referring to an older song/dance.

Mia says that Dahlia's "milkshake brings all the boys to the yard," a famous line taken from the 2003 song "Milkshake" by Kelis.

Case 3: When meeting Lisa Basil for the first time, Phoenix comments on the "ghost in a shell," which can be taken either as a direct reference to Ghost in the Shell or else as a direct reference to what GitS is itself referencing.

Also while talking with Lisa Basil, at one point Maya exclaims "This is madness!" to which Phoenix replies, "No, Maya, that is SPARDA," an obvious parody of the famous line from the comic-turned-film 300.

Case ???: I think this one comes from Case 4. (Don't remember; didn't record sources.) But at one point someone mentions "midi-chlorians" [sic], a reference to Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.

Case 5: When presented with evidence that she has no comment on, Sister Bikini in an early interaction says that she is just an "immaterial girl" living in an "immaterial world," parodying the famous Madonna song "Material Girl."

During one of the courtroom cross-examinations, Phoenix remarks on someone's testimony, "... it'd mean that there's a bigger hole in her story than that movie The Grid: Revelations!", an obvious reference to The Matrix: Revelations.

Finally, there is one point in the case where the judge asks not to be treated like a "spoony bard," perhaps the single most famous phrase to be born out of the original North American localization of Final Fantasy IV.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:47 PM   #69
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Picked up AA3 again as planned. I had only completed cases 1 and 2 the last time (about a year back), so starting from the beginning again, for the sake of continuity. On Case 2 atm. Loving it so far.

Case 1 spoilers and some references to the other AA games:
Spoiler: show
Mia's story at the end of case 1 was quite touching and did indeed bring back 'painful and precious memories'. Thankfully the spirit channelling means that she is not dead dead and her being there at the right moments to help out really gives her a special place in the players' hearts.

I just love all the references, including those related to the past games. The ladder/stepladder argument makes me laugh every time!
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:41 PM   #70
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Completed Case 3. I agree with most of the things Talon mentioned earlier on this page. Some things I stronlgy agree on or have different opinions about:

Spoiler: show
I agree that this case was weak similar to case 3 in AA2, but unlike Talon, I liked the characters in AA2 better. The clown and the ventriloquist guy from AA2 were funny in a weird way. Also, Franziska had much more of a character than Godot. I find Godot too shallow so far (this is my first playthrough though, and I expect him to be one of the major characters in the coming cases). But, on the other hand, the story of the case in AA3 was much better built - contradictory evidences explained by the scene happening twice. I also liked how the last piece of evidence was used in a special way.

But in this case, the truth was laid out in the opening scene of the game, and it stuck to that which made this case somewhat linear. There was no suspense, only the need for things to be put together.

I agree with Talon that there were moments where the game was stuck for some silly reason. I got stuck once or twice, but I realized later that it was due to me overlooking some details, but it ended up taking a lot longer than I expected, and makes for a less interesting gameplay. Also, there were moments where everything was in place for me to show evidence to a certain person during the investigation, but the game didn't count it as being useful and led to one of the default replies, which I thought was somewhat annoying. For example, I had the MC Bomber disc and I could have showed it to Maggey to get her to confirm that that was the disc she saw and get more info about it, but she never seemed interested, when in fact, she was the only one who saw that disc on the victim's table before he died.


Other interesting things I noticed:

Spoiler: show
Palindromes and reversed names: There was a lot of focus on reversing the names and the phonies were given code names accordingly - Xin Oeph and the hypothetical Ayam. Among the other characters, the two working for Blue Screens Inc. - Glen Elg and Lisa Basil - had palindromic names. I was expecting this to matter somewhere (kinda like in AA1 case 5 where they used an ingenious trick with the dates 2/21 and the name of the case SL-9), but it didn't.

Also, on the sports newspaper that the victim carried, there is a sketch of Mask*Demasque. I was expecting it to be relevant to the case, maybe something relating to how the victim or the murderer came to know about Phoenix Wright, but it wasn't.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:02 PM   #71
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Completed Case 4:

Spoiler: show
And like Talon, I was very surprised at how short it was!

I was also expecting that Diego Armando would die dramatically and the case would be called off, but then I realized that the date when the case happened was around February, whereas Phoenix and Dahlia first met on August 27 (which was just after the poisoning incident).

It might also have happened that Mia and Diego developed their love interests over the six odd months after this case, prior to Diego's death. Diego's description in the court record mentions him as being Mia's rival and somewhat smug. But he seems like a smooth talker and is very much to Mia what Mia is to Phoenix when in court.

So here are some observations, which would likely only be safe after completing the whole game (and if they aren't true, I will feel like a complete idiot, which I'm fine with ):

Spoiler: show
Godot is Diego Armando: No doubt about this. Finally some hints in the game about Godot. This case hints towards how he might have known Phoenix, even though he supposedly 'died' the same day that Dahlia met Phoenix. It's clear that he did not die. My guess would be another of those faked deaths scenario that we have seen a little too often, including in this very case.
(I have another set of alternate stupid theoretical explanations:
1. Since Fawles drank some of the poison, the remaining amount might not have been potent enough to kill Diego Armando - something Dahlia might not have expected.
2. His extreme caffeine consumption has made him immune to certain poisons (or at least resistant enough to not die).)
He does keep saying that he has "come back from the depths of hell". And that he has a grudge. Still don't know what that is about.


So Dahlia has murdered Valerie, Diego Armando, Doug Swallow, was the cause for Terry Fawles's death and was about to murder Phoenix Wright. Plus she stole the diamond worth 2 million bucks, planned a fake kidnapping, faked her own death and was living with a fake identity for 5 years. Demonic indeed.

Also, I liked how they have maintained Miles Edgeworth's character before he changed in Justice For All. He hides evidence and knows things but chooses to reveal them only once the defence has figured it out after a lot of effort.
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Old 04-24-2015, 12:59 PM   #72
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Just started Episode 5 and there are so many things on my mind already! Some of these might just be theory, but it's too much and I need to write it down so that I can keep track of how my things change as this episode progresses.

Note that these may spoil the end-game depending on how accurate my hunches are. I cannot say as of now whether they do.

Spoiler: show
1. Dahlia is free again? What sorcery is this?! She is probably the most criminal criminal in the series so far! Refer to post above for the list of things she should have been charged for. And she's free!

2. Elise Deauxnim is Morgan Fey. So, she's another criminal who is free and has been free for a while (she has written famous books etc. since then). The whole plan screams 'It's a trap!'. Pearl has been influenced by unknown sources to take Maya and Phoenix right into the trap where Dahlia and Morgan finally get revenge that they have been waiting so long for. Also, there's no wonder Pearl has already taken such a liking to Elise. She's her mother after all!

3. Godot, who is Diego Armando, has come back from hell to take revenge, not on Phoenix, but on Dahlia. Once and for all. He is somehow aware of her ulterior plans.

4. Butz, oh Butz. I can see him being one of the reasons Phoenix is going down. He will testify for Dahlia, against Phoenix, as this time he is torn between Phoenix and a beautiful female he has a crush on. Being Larry, he will go with the girl and lead to Phoenix's doom.

So much is happening in my brain, even before things are yet to start! I'm just at the point where Pearl says dinner is ready, but I'm totally psyched already!

Also, I expect Misty Fey to make a dramatic appearance. It would be AWESOME to see Misty take revenge on the Dahlia and Morgan for what they have done to her daughters!

Phew! Now I can go back and continue playing ;)

Needless to say, I am thoroughly enjoying it so far!
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:48 PM   #73
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OH WHAT A PLOT TWIST!!! O_O (Part 2-2)

Spoiler: show
Made Larry show his sketch and it gave me goosebumps!! I am totally in HOLY SHIT land right now! This is just so inconceivable I would rate this THE BEST PLOT TWIST EVER! OH MY GOD!! He did see something truly incredible that day! O_O

Even coming from Larry, this is something I totally believe! ;)

This case has been extraordinarily awesome so far! WOW! And I expect this to be one hell of a case!

P.S.: Also, I'm loving playing as Miles Edgeworth. There's a certain degree of cuteness to it Even more so when you have Gumshoe as your partner during investigation and he cannot stop himself from thinking out loud
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:05 PM   #74
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OH MY GOD!!!! (Part 3-1)

Spoiler: show
Godot mentions "any trace of an acolyte gone missing"!!!!! MISTY FEY IS ABOUT TO MAKE A COMEBACK!!!! WOAH!!!

I've been in hyper mode for a while since looking at Larry's sketch, but this is getting ultra-amazing!! I AM LOVING how they are connecting ALL the strings together. I can see why this is the last of the Phoenix Wright Main Series. Deservedly so!
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:11 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takkupanda View Post
Just started Episode 5 and there are so many things on my mind already! Some of these might just be theory, but it's too much and I need to write it down so that I can keep track of how my things change as this episode progresses.

Note that these may spoil the end-game depending on how accurate my hunches are. I cannot say as of now whether they do.

Spoiler: show
1. Dahlia is free again? What sorcery is this?! She is probably the most criminal criminal in the series so far! Refer to post above for the list of things she should have been charged for. And she's free!

2. Elise Deauxnim is Morgan Fey. So, she's another criminal who is free and has been free for a while (she has written famous books etc. since then). The whole plan screams 'It's a trap!'. Pearl has been influenced by unknown sources to take Maya and Phoenix right into the trap where Dahlia and Morgan finally get revenge that they have been waiting so long for. Also, there's no wonder Pearl has already taken such a liking to Elise. She's her mother after all!

3. Godot, who is Diego Armando, has come back from hell to take revenge, not on Phoenix, but on Dahlia. Once and for all. He is somehow aware of her ulterior plans.

4. Butz, oh Butz. I can see him being one of the reasons Phoenix is going down. He will testify for Dahlia, against Phoenix, as this time he is torn between Phoenix and a beautiful female he has a crush on. Being Larry, he will go with the girl and lead to Phoenix's doom.

So much is happening in my brain, even before things are yet to start! I'm just at the point where Pearl says dinner is ready, but I'm totally psyched already!

Also, I expect Misty Fey to make a dramatic appearance. It would be AWESOME to see Misty take revenge on the Dahlia and Morgan for what they have done to her daughters!

Phew! Now I can go back and continue playing ;)

Needless to say, I am thoroughly enjoying it so far!
Quote:
Originally Posted by takkupanda View Post
OH WHAT A PLOT TWIST!!! O_O (Part 2-2)

Spoiler: show
Made Larry show his sketch and it gave me goosebumps!! I am totally in HOLY SHIT land right now! This is just so inconceivable I would rate this THE BEST PLOT TWIST EVER! OH MY GOD!! He did see something truly incredible that day! O_O

Even coming from Larry, this is something I totally believe! ;)

This case has been extraordinarily awesome so far! WOW! And I expect this to be one hell of a case!

P.S.: Also, I'm loving playing as Miles Edgeworth. There's a certain degree of cuteness to it Even more so when you have Gumshoe as your partner during investigation and he cannot stop himself from thinking out loud
Glad to see a fellow fan enjoying the case. Muyo, me, you, Daisy: I think everyone who plays this case through to the end would agree that it's among the franchise's best. Heck, iirc Muyo is amongst those who would argue that it is the best. (But I'll let him speak for himself! )

There's a famous Sherlock Holmes quote that will come up in the case fairly soon. They offer an abridged version of it, but the spirit is still the same. It's a pretty great summation of the wild rides Takumi & Co. have taken us on, and it applies equally well to some of the mind-blowing things you're witnessing for the very first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by takkupanda View Post
OH MY GOD!!!! (Part 3-1)

Spoiler: show
Godot mentions "any trace of an acolyte gone missing"!!!!! MISTY FEY IS ABOUT TO MAKE A COMEBACK!!!! WOAH!!!

I've been in hyper mode for a while since looking at Larry's sketch, but this is getting ultra-amazing!! I AM LOVING how they are connecting ALL the strings together. I can see why this is the last of the Phoenix Wright Main Series. Deservedly so!
Haha, you posted this in between when I started to reply and when I finished. You're quite clearly enthralled by this case and eager to share your enthusiasm with us. I love it, and I can relate. As I think the available evidence clearly shows. ^^;
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