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Old 08-24-2013, 10:30 PM   #2251
Fallen Icarus
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People being stupid shocker.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:50 AM   #2252
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A new (old) deck impresses Dopple with its ability to make people quit.

The Kuriboh is actually in my hand, but Exchange doesn't really work on DN.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:40 AM   #2253
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I got mad at a guy who dropped Solemn Judgment on me and now I feel bad. I hope the dude didn't take it personally. I'm going to have to be careful up until the September 1 deadline just in case little kids, idiots or the ignorant are playing with the death row cards.

Incidentally, I think I impressed this guy-



Volcasaurus is incredibly broken with Mist Bird Clausolas. Since it can't attack directly, reducing a monster's attack to 0 effectively bypasses that restriction. Even more than Gaia the Thunder Charger does.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:28 AM   #2254
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I imagine the trolly effects of Muyo's decks are augmented by him behaving infuriatingly calm. People'd be less likely to quit if he threw in the occassional "u mad bro?" when they start raging :p.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:44 AM   #2255
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I've been looking to get back into the game (I was never a competitive player, but still). The last time I played was around the time when the expansion with Wind-Up Zenmaity came out and people starting to try out Inzectors, I think they were called. What's the landscape like nowadays? How much did I miss?
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:38 PM   #2256
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Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
I've been looking to get back into the game (I was never a competitive player, but still). The last time I played was around the time when the expansion with Wind-Up Zenmaity came out and people starting to try out Inzectors, I think they were called. What's the landscape like nowadays? How much did I miss?
If you weren't competitive I'm not sure how much relevance the recent history means, since that usually implies you were insulated from the popular decks. I'll summarize, though, since it's interesting nonetheless. A brief overview of the game's history since then-

Terminology

Aggro - aggressive play
Control - manipulating the opponent's behaviour
Beat/beatdown - using high attack monsters to win games with brute force
Lock/lockdown - a category of control, locks prevent the opponent from doing something
Stun - a category of control, stun punishes the opponent for doing something
Swarm - summoning a lot of monsters
Spam - summoning a lot of monsters at once
Loop - doing the same combo over and over
OTK - one turn kill, most commonly achieved by swarm but can be reached through other means
Search - look through your deck for a specific card, add it to hand, or bring it to the field
Float/floater - a card that replaces itself when it leaves the field
Boss - a powerful monster, usually the star of a deck

March 2012

Tier 1: Chaos Dragons, Dino Rabbit, Inzektor
Tier 2: Wind-Ups, Hieratic, HERO Beat
Tier 3: Plant Synchro, Six Samurai

This format was dominated by the three top decks, all of which were ridiculous creating a lot more diversity from the previous format where the single prevalent deck was Plant Synchro. Plant Synchro was wrecked by the banlist, seeing its most powerful cards (Trishula, Spore, Glow-Up Bulb, Reborn Tengu) banned or limited.

Chaos Dragons, the most powerful deck of the format, was an aggro/swarm deck. It involved using three Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon to swarm the field with huge, powerful dragons, then beat down the opponent with them. To back up the boss dragons, the Chaos monsters (x3 Chaos Sorcerer, x1 Black Luster Soldier) would banish/remove threats to the dragon onslaught. Lightpulsar Dragon ensured that even if the dragons were destroyed, Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon would revive from the Graveyard to resurrect the entire field. It was very difficult to stop this deck because monsters were easily summoned from the grave, banish zone and hand, and because they spammed so many monsters, they eventually ate up backrow protection. Their power play was a first turn Future Fusion, which allowed them to drop five dragons into the grave and potentially summon Five-Headed Dragon if the Future Fusion remained on the field.

Dino-Rabbit was a stun deck. It packed a high number of trap cards, control spells and lock down traps. They used Rescue Rabbit to summon two dinosaurs from their main deck (either Kabazuls or Sabersaurus) and create Evolzar Laggia, who could had the ability to negate one summon or spell/trap the opponent played. Their goal was to keep summoning Laggia or its cousin Evolzar Dolkka (who could negate two monster effects each turn) until the opponent ran out of resources. Tour Guide from the Underworld allowed access to Leviair the Sea Dragon, who could re-summon Rescue Rabbit for another Laggia or Dolkka, or another Rescue Rabbit could be played from the hand. Dimension Prison locked out graveyard based decks, and Vanity's Emptiness locked out the opponent making special summons.

Inzektor was a control/swarm deck. It's a re-make of the Duel Terminal archetype Dragunity, which involved using monsters like equip cards. Considered the most unfair of the top three, Inzektors could equip cards from their hand or grave, then detatch the equip for effects. The power play involved summoning Inzektor Dragonfly, who would equip Inzektor Hornet. Hornet could detach itself to destroy a card on the field, and whenever an Inzektor detached from Dragonfly, it would special summon a non-Dragonfly Inzektor from the deck, usually Inzektor Centipede. Centipede would then attach Hornet from the grave, destroy another card, then add Inzektor Dragonfly to hand. So the Inzektor player destroyed two of the opponent's cards, summoned a monster, and added another to hand. They could then double this play during their next turn, when they'd push for an OTK.

Hieratic was a pure OTK dragon deck. They'd run a long, boring combo of tributing a bunch of Hieratic monsters, clearing the field of spells/traps before attacking with three high attack monsters, usually Gaia Dragon the Thunder Charger. This deck was consistent, so its success usually predicated on the inconsistency of the opponent's deck to give a debilitating counter attack. One card could defeat Hieratic, but even a prepared opponent could lose to this deck if taken by surprise.

Wind-Ups were a special summon spam deck that abused a loop involving Wind-Up Hunter to discard an opponent's entire hand. Like Hieratic, it could be stopped by a single card, but could win games if it caught an un-prepared opponent.

HERO Beat appeared toward the end of the format, but was similarly mauled by the then-upcoming banlist. It was a control deck revolving around Elemental HERO Stratos, Elemental HERO Neos Alius, and various support trap/spell cards based around Alius. One of UPN's users Gemini Spark is named after the eponymous spell that made Alius powerful. This deck could easily swarm and OTK with Blade Armour Ninja and the introduction of Heroic Champion Excalibur, backed by floaters like Elemental HERO The Shining.

September 2012

This banlist killed Chaos Dragons by limiting Chaos Sorcerer, Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon, and banning Future Fusion. Inzektors were crippled by the limiting of Inzektor Hornet and Dragonfly. Dino-Rabbit took a blow with a semi-limit to Tour Guide and Rescue Rabbit, and Hieratic/HERO Beat lost a lot of consistency with limits to their search cards. Wind-Ups got away with a limit to Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity

Tier 1: Mermail, Wind-Ups
Tier 2: Macro Rabbit
Tier 3: Karakuri

In my opinion this was an excellent format, where decks that weren't Tier 1/Tier 2 could compete reasonably well. But nobody was interested in playing at this time!

From the rotting corpses of Inzektor and Chaos Dragons, Wind-Ups emerged to be the new top dog. They always had powerful XYZ capabilities, so once they stopped relying on the hand loop they were fully able to bring them out. Combined with the powerful Shock Master, Wind-Ups could lock the opponent's field for a turn while they build up monsters, and running a high trap count usually stunned any attempt at getting into the game. Wind-Ups could kill opponents and kill them quickly without the proper counters.

Mermail, was/is an aggro swarm deck with modest control options. It involved discarding water monsters to summoning powerful Mermails like Abyssmegalo and Abyssleed to overwhelm the opponent, while using the Atlantean support cards to search out more Mermail or destroy the opponent's cards. It's structurally similar to how the Fabled and Dark World archetypes work, but almost every card in Mermail floats, and because everything uses effects to summon monsters, they created special chains that were difficult to deal with.

Macro Rabbit was the next evolution of Dino Rabbit. Built to exploit Mermail's reliance on the Graveyard, Macro Rabbit didn't recycle its cards like Dino Rabbit did, reasoning that locking out the opponent using the more powerful banish card Macro Cosmos (as opposed to Dimensional Fissure) was worth the trade off of losing a chance at a reboot. Ultimately, this deck was far weaker and less consistent than the original, but was still competitive.

Karakuri is a Synchro OTK deck similar to Hieratic. It's older than Hieratic and has always been around, but was just lurking in the dregs and rose to modest prominence with the other decks falling. Note that this deck has gotten stronger each format and might actually be a big deal someday soon.

March 2013

The incumbent format. Not much happened except Solemn Warning was limited, and Thunder King Rai-Oh was semi-limited.

Tier 1: Dragon Rulers, Prophecy
-Huge Gap-
Tier 2: Mermail, Evilswarm
Tier 3: Constellar, Macro Rabbit

Dragon Rulers, the great nightmare, is the most frightening and powerful deck Yu-Gi-Oh! has seen in years. Like Chaos Dragons, Dragon Rulers can spam huge numbers of powerful dragons onto the field, but like Mermail, every dragon can float, and with a huge number of draw cards like Super Rejuvenation, Dragon Ruler players have an endless amount of resources to throw at the opponent. They can cut their decks in half by turn three, and even after a field wipe, they are capable of resurrecting that same field from the grave in a single turn. Using two extremely powerful XYZ Monsters, Mecha Phantom Beast Dragossack and Big Eye, Dragon Rulers were able to lock out their opponent (with Light and Darkness Dragon) or steal their opponent's powerful monsters to use against them. This deck is insane and is so powerful even a newbie who doesn't know how to use it proper could beat an experienced veteran using a well-constructed deck they're skilled with.

Prophecy was originally a gimmick spell deck that centralized around protecting a single boss, High Priestess of Prophecy. Its main weakness was it was slow and relied on searching, but with the semi-limit of Thunder King Rai-Oh and release of a ridiculous card, Spellbook of Judgment, the deck went into turbo mode, and was capable of not only dumping a huge number of spellbook cards into the grave, it could special summon a Spellcaster directly from the deck. This made their slow, but powerful defensive cards (such as Spellbook of Wisdom) immediately live, as well as search out Priestess quickly so it could wreak havoc on the next turn. Later in the format, players learned to summon Jowgen the Spiritualist, a spellcaster who blocks Special Summons and can destroy all Special Summoned monsters with the discard of a card. Jowgen has high defense for a small monster, but under normal conditions he'd never be able to make use of that defense, yet Spellbook of Judgment could summon him in defense mode. This meant that any monster big enough to destroy him couldn't be Special Summoned, and a Normal Summoned monster with large enough attack could be banished by Spellbook of Wisdom.

Mermail was the exact same deck as before. Exact same deck! But because of the overwhelming power of the above two, it was dropped a whole tier. In fact, Tier 2 in the current format is pretty close to what was Tier 1 in the last format.

Evilswarm is a lock deck surrounding its boss Evilswarm Ophion. Ophion prevents special summons of Level 5 or higher monsters. It also searches a spell card that makes it immune to spells/traps. Rescue Rabbit was also used in this deck. It only saw play because it has a great matchup against Dragon Rulers and Mermail. It hurts certain decks, but overall has a weaker stun environment than Macro Rabbit did, and Ophion is very vulnerable to alternative forms of removal.

Macro Rabbit is basically unchanged.

Constellar is the light counterpart of Evilswarm. It has a stronger boss, Constellar Pleiades, who is the most powerful Rank 5 in the game. A stun monster, Pleiades can return any card on the field to hand. Unfortunately, Constellars don't have good support cards and are very reliant on their trap cards, so while the deck can be formidable at times it's not that great, and completely overshadowed by the above cards. I'd call it a poor man's Six Samurai.

...

Whew. Well, now we're in the present day, a story yet to be told.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:50 PM   #2257
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I noticed that you went March-September-March. Does that mean the banlists are issued only once every six months?
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #2258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
This deck is insane and is so powerful even a newbie who doesn't know how to use it proper could beat an experienced veteran using a well-constructed deck they're skilled with.
hee hee hee

By the end of the tournament I actually knew how to use the deck really well though, which helped in my two matches against TDos. But I'll admit, the only reason I beat Muyo in Round 1 of the tournament was because of my sidedeck, and I had just Googled what to use for that. As the tournament went on I added in some of my own things that I didn't steal from the deck I looked up online (didn't have Light and Darkness Dragon for starters, which saw use in my match against Talon) but to the guy on whatever forums with whatever username that suggested I run Psi-Blocker and Deck Devastation Virus: thanks a bundle.

EDIT:

Talon: The September 2013 banlist is only valid until January 1st, 2014. I thought it was every six months as well, but it looks like it's whenever Konami wants to change the list apparently.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:57 PM   #2259
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It was previously two banlists a year. There was one exception a few years back when an emergency list was announced to ban Dark Strike Fighter, who was causing tournament attendance to plummet. From now on, there will be three annual banlists in the TCG, and four in the OCG.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:12 PM   #2260
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I should get back into YGO. I still have a Karakuri Deck somewhere, though I might as well get to building with some lesser use archetype that doesn't run much of that newfangled OP stuff people use these days. Or at least some sort of Deck that warrants thinking thoroughly. (Inb4Lightsworn)
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:37 PM   #2261
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So, why is Dark Strike Fighter banned? I had originally though it was because of the combos one could make with Hieratics, but then I learned that it doesn't work.

The same question towards sinister serpent. I don't get that either. But I'm still a bit of a newb.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:41 PM   #2262
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Dark Strike Fighter can OTK in a lot of decks that swarm and even a lot of decks that don't but can loop. Grapha in the grave + Ultimate Offering for example.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #2263
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Out of sheer curiosity, why is Mass Driver Banned while Cannon Soldier remains at 3?
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #2264
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Dark Strike Fighter can OTK in a lot of decks that swarm and even a lot of decks that don't but can loop. Grapha in the grave + Ultimate Offering for example.
Oh God that sounds lovely.

Also, went up against another Infernity Deck. Same one as Dopple's.

The deck basically falls apart when the Infernity Barrier's go away. I baited him by playing Dark World Lightning to try and get rid of them. Soon, I got out Zenmaines and stalled him out. My deck has too many resources for an Infernity deck it seems.

I had just discarded Snoww in this picture, and he quit afterwards.

Spoiler: show


To keep in mind how long I lasted, I didn't draw a single Grapha the entire duel, and I managed to go through all three of his Infernity Barriers, and stayed alive during a 1800 * 2, 2100 * 2 assault.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:39 PM   #2265
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Quote:
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Out of sheer curiosity, why is Mass Driver Banned while Cannon Soldier remains at 3?
I believe it's because Mass Driver OTK/FTK loops usually require Normal Summons somewhere along the line. Cannon Soldier would obviously need to be Normal Summoned a turn before if one was to pull off that OTK. Coupled with the fact Cannon Soldier is a weak(-ish) monster that won't often stick around for one turn in tournament play.

Could be wrong, but that's the only real difference.

EDIT: Also, people would never run Cannon Soldier over its Toon variant if they were planning an FTK. Hell, even if they weren't, it's unlikely. Same effect, just as potent, but can't attack for 1 turn? Worth the trade for easier search power (Toon Table of Contents). Not particularly relevant, as Toon Cannon Soldier has also escaped bans, but still Cannon Soldier-related.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:44 PM   #2266
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>Kratos

Quote:
Frog Burn FTK

With the release of Ronintoadin from The Shining Darkness, Frogs gained the ability to perform a First Turn Kill which involved following key cards: Substitoad, Swap Frog, Ronintoadin, and Mass Driver, Cannon Soldier, or a card with the effect that states you can tribute monster to inflict damage directly to your opponents life points. Catapult Turtle will not work because Ronintoadin's attack is far too low.

This FTK is hard to stop, and relatively easy to pull off. First, you need to get a Substitoad on the field (easy with One for One or Swap Frog + Salvage). Then, you just need another Monster on the field as fodder for his effect. At that point, dump as many Frogs as you possibly can into your Graveyard (cards like Banisher of the Light and Dimensional Fissure are the bane of this strategy). If you have three copies of Ronintoadin in your Deck, there is a very good chance that if he's not already in your hand, he will be very soon, likewise with Mass Driver. All you need to do now is get Ronintoadin in the Graveyard, either by Swap Frog's effect or by other means, and Mass Driver on the field. Use Ronintoadin's effect to bring him back to the field and then Tribute him for 400 LP damage. Repeat until you win.

This Deck proved consistent enough to make showings at many high level tournaments, including Championship Series events, World Championship Qualifiers, and the 2010 World Championships, being piloted to a 1st place victory by Galileo de Obaldia.

With the banning of Substitoad from September 2010 onwards, this strategy will no longer be playable in Advanced Format but you can still use a less quick modified Frog Burn Deck.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Frog_Burn_FTK
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:05 PM   #2267
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That needs Substitoad though, which is banned (sadly).
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #2268
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Yeah, Mass Driver and Substitoad were both banned because the Frog FTK was really good and consistent, hence why that guy won Worlds with it.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:46 PM   #2269
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So, Whilst playing WC2012 with a mate, We discovered a pretty tricksy tactic - Using the re-flippable cards alongside ECTOPLASMA. Which got me to thinking... Ghostrick House + Ectoplasmer would be soooooooo fun. Yay or Nay?

edit: Also, this dumbo was just reminded that Spirit Barrier is a thing. mmm, lovely synergy.
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In Mother 3 Swampy was Flint and you were Hinawa. You two were a wonderful couple. Icarus was your dog, and Toy and I were your twin sons. Well, until a dinosaur impaled you through the heart. So yes, where is he!?
Quote:
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#still
#fucking
#salty



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Old 08-26-2013, 02:29 PM   #2270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampertforever View Post
So, Whilst playing WC2012 with a mate, We discovered a pretty tricksy tactic - Using the re-flippable cards alongside ECTOPLASMA. Which got me to thinking... Ghostrick House + Ectoplasmer would be soooooooo fun. Yay or Nay?
Not convinced about Ghostrick House there, myself, but perhaps I'm missing the "fun" side of it. Feels like you'd be taking a fair bit of damage from remotely aggresive decks though (since you'd be attacked directly a fair bit either way)

EDIT: Spirit Barrier, though, makes it interesting. For some reason I completely blanked the fact that these two paragraphs were clearly meant to be read together.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:40 PM   #2271
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I run Spirit Barrier in my Ghosttrick deck. Mine currently sucks balls though so don't take my advice :p.

Will probably be on for a bit, trying to adjust for the banlist/taking the opportunity to tweak my decks/trying to improve my latest two.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:44 PM   #2272
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Yeah, Spirit Barrier stops Direct atrack damage, Ectoplasmer makes them lose a monster each turn (forcing them to start playing face-downs) which then only deals Quarter Damage due to Ghostrick House (as Ecto does effect damage... right?)
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Quote:
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In Mother 3 Swampy was Flint and you were Hinawa. You two were a wonderful couple. Icarus was your dog, and Toy and I were your twin sons. Well, until a dinosaur impaled you through the heart. So yes, where is he!?
Quote:
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#still
#fucking
#salty


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Old 08-26-2013, 03:06 PM   #2273
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Dear DN community: Why would you knowingly start a Match then quit after the first Duel? I've had about 2 opportunities to look at whether my Side Deck is remotely useful. Out of probably half a dozen games, which isn't much, but still bothersome.

EDIT: Having said that, a lot of the Side deck is kind of straight-forward. There are 2 slots I'm not happy with. But still...
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #2274
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Got sidetracked doing things for Kuno. Back on now if anyone fancies a game.

EDIT the first: Got my World lock set up properly against an empty field. First game of a match, my third turn. Guy just resigned the whole match then and there.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:33 PM   #2275
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Thanks for the in-depth reply Dopple, was great to read. For some reason, I remember the time I left as a period where Dark Worlds were absolutely everywhere, and I distinctly recall hating Grapha with a passion (still do)... But maybe that happened earlier.

This question is about as old as it gets, but I'd like to know what are you guys' favourite decks currently. I had a lot of fun playing Quickdraw, Gemknights, TGs and Nordics (yeah, I know)... maybe I'll rebuild some of those for casual duels in Unrated or whatever.
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