04-14-2017, 01:06 PM | #1 |
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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
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04-14-2017, 02:38 PM | #2 |
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If the Bendu doesn't appear, I'll be sad...
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04-14-2017, 06:58 PM | #4 |
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I won't (can't) accept that explanation. It makes Star Wars even more kiddie than in the Lucas era films.
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04-14-2017, 07:51 PM | #5 | |
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I believe that line is more towards the beginning of the film since he wouldn't train her if that point is to be taken seriously
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04-14-2017, 08:04 PM | #6 |
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It looks fun to me. Though with the "compassion for her" line makes me want to bring up that I do hope if Ren does get a redemption arc it isn't intertwined with a romance with Rey. although thinking about it seems like:
Spoiler: show At least to me at the moment. |
04-15-2017, 02:33 PM | #7 |
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04-15-2017, 05:42 PM | #9 |
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@Talon
A lot of your speculation hinges on what Abrams considers the philosophy of the Jedi. This (or rather, the nature of the Light-Dark Side) have changed over the years. In the original films, Light/Dark was the difference between embracing emotion and detachment from it. A true Jedi always saw himself as merely a snapshot in time, a pixel as part of a larger picture, and their existence in the here and now was transient and mere preparation for their unification with the Force. It's a vague admixture of East-West Philosophy - you have the Buddhist idea of escaping suffering through meditative understanding, and the Christian idea that we're just "passing through" Earth on the way to the much-better realm of Paradise. These qualities are why the Republic allied with the Jedi as they were ostensibly warrior monks, with their philosophy advocating a disinterest in the worldly affairs of the day. The Sith were a lot simpler bunch - value and embrace living in the present, and use your skills to control it for your betterment. The Sith were not all about power as they went through a great deal of suffering in the process to gain it - the very nature of the Dark Side would not allow them to simply be nihilistic like the Jedi. It's not surprising then that most Sith try as much as possible to achieve eternal life, so they never move on to the next world. Writers realized that the former makes for less interesting drama than the latter. The Jedi are motivated for the same reasons in every era, while people might turn to the Dark Side for any reason under the sun. So the Light/Dark dichotomy, for at least since Jedi Knight II in 2002, has been about "positive emotions" versus "negative emotions". The Light/Dark Side is now White/Black, because Jedi can have their cake and eat it too, while Sith are just angry, violence-oriented losers. I'm pretty sure Abrams knows the distinction and why everyone has gotten on board with the latter. There was very little "emotional detachment" in the previous movie and pretty much none in his Star Trek films (even out of Spock, the most Jedi-like Trek character). Luke leaving society however is a very Jedi-like thing to do, like Yoda, because Jedi are perfectly content with withdrawing from society in preparation for uniting with the Force. But if Luke isn't ready, or doesn't want to, he isn't necessarily deviating from the Jedi principles. Being a Jedi is something you have to constantly prove, and Luke did it in Return by 1) going back to Dagobah and 2) not killing Vader. Obi-wan did it by confronting Vader and allowing himself to be slain; Yoda did it by accepting death, as long life is the hallmark of the Sith.
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04-17-2017, 12:41 AM | #10 |
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FYI, Abrams isn't working on The Last Jedi.
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12-17-2017, 02:22 PM | #11 |
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12-18-2017, 12:49 AM | #12 |
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Time for some more in-depth or specific thoughts. Incomplete list, just some of the stuff floating around my head right now. I'll probably have more to say tomorrow. For what it's worth, this is the last post which I'll have written without getting feedback from anyone else. Have yet to discuss the film with any friends, no one here's replied yet since I posted, and I haven't read others' thoughts on Reddit or YouTube or the like yet. (About to, though.)
Spoiler: show
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12-18-2017, 01:13 AM | #13 |
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Talon, that is a savage beat-down. You might feel modest about that review and throw up the disclaimer that you liked it...but a rabid Star Wars fan, upon letting that iron-barbed logic sink in their skull, would respond with blind, keyboard abusive rage.
You've succinctly removed all credibility of Disney, who needs to prove they know what they're doing to reel in wiser, more internet savvy fans.
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12-18-2017, 03:06 AM | #15 |
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6/10 isn't really acceptable when, at the very least, A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are true cinematic classics, alongside being fun popcorn films. A franchise that spans multiple excellent films like that is truly rare since changing social attitudes threaten to diminish that status - think westerns, or Bond films - but those two, and maybe Return of the Jedi, have withstood the test of time.
The only comparison I would think is The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, with their lesser 1990 sequel. I might invite a lot of rancor inviting a comparison between SW and TGF, but while SW might be "on the second floor" compared to "the penthouse suite", I can't name another trilogy that pulled off two classics. And so, the bar is raised without any need for Disney to hype it up any more than it can.
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12-18-2017, 03:33 AM | #16 |
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12-18-2017, 03:42 AM | #17 |
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Rotten Tomatoes lost all credibility after the Ghostbusters fiasco, though that was merely the last straw. What is clear in the current world is that press, especially online press, cannot be allowed to sabotage a $500M+ investment. Why allow RT to bomb your movie for free when you can spend $1M under the table to silence those critics?
When Ebert was still alive, he began to eclipse RT in credibility because he wasn't biased by studio money. Crowd consensus was really good early on but has become trouble when you can't maintain financial transparency and a NPOV, which is why Wikipedia is going strong and independent and why RT is jointly owned by Warner Bros and Comcast. That said, RT is still good...for low-profile indie films. You get the most honest reviews for something that makes no money or is hated by audiences. Basically put...if the movie is intended for a wide audience, listen to the audience consensus. If it's intended for the clever viewers, go with the critical consensus.
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12-19-2017, 03:50 PM | #18 |
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Solid 5/10 from me due to inconsistent and occasionally straight up garbage writing and character development.
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12-19-2017, 09:34 PM | #19 |
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Warning! Spoilers!
Critic attempts to explain The Last Jedi backlash, comes across as an entitled prick in the process.
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12-19-2017, 10:05 PM | #20 |
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More selections from Reddit. And some from YouTube too.
Spoiler: show And speaking of YouTube, RedLetterMedia's appetizer Half in the Bag is up, with a main course Plinkett review almost assuredly in the works. (There was also a Nerd Crew review first, a sort of "appetizer to the appetizer", if you will.) Like so many other fans, Mike and his friends weigh in with the general verdict of: Spoiler: show
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12-19-2017, 10:31 PM | #21 |
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It says a lot to me when the immediate reaction is 5/10 or 6/10. It took a while for the badness of the prequels to set in, people willing to admit or even entertain the idea that they were bad, even if some felt that way out of the theatre and tried to reassure themselves that Star Wars was beyond criticism.
We live in a more armchair critical world but...things can only go down from here.
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12-20-2017, 12:36 AM | #22 | |
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Quote:
On the other hand, I think he's wrong about a few things, unintentionally dishonest about a few other things, and most importantly fails to present his hypotheses as clearly hypotheses instead of as facts. (Paying lip service and calling them hypotheses really isn't enough. The way he writes is, not unlike myself and many of us here, very sure.) There is something to be said for echo chambers and podiums for the poles. The sorts of people who are going to rant or rave about this film on Reddit, for example, are only going to be those sorts of people who are opinionated, confident, eager to share, and above all else passionate. It's entirely possible that the Reddit landscape appears one way while the IRL landscape looks entirely different. But at the same time, we can't just dismiss the Reddit, the YouTube, or the Facebook forums like this. There is an undeniable, large contingent of people who all felt the same way about the film. The Vox journalist brings up that one man's trash is another man's treasure and that what one fan thinks ruined the film is what another fan will think was its very best feature. This is true, I can't deny it -- but it's also irrelevant to the case at hand. Spoiler: show
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12-20-2017, 01:38 AM | #23 | ||
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What drew my ire were the low-hanging fruits he picked and surreptitiously wiped under his armpits before offering them:
Quote:
This doesn't make any sense. There's been eight Star Wars movies, I'm extremely skeptical that someone who bothered to see those eight but still "doesn't get it" gets it with a movie that is criticized as out-of-character for the franchise. Maybe, not as OOC as Rogue One is, and it's possible he's finally filled with the SW spirit, but Occam's Razor suggests he's mistaken and is fond of the very thing the other fans don't like. Quote:
Yes, anti-progressivism is a thing. Sorry, your princess is in another castle. Why anyone would think this is a thing in a franchise populated by aliens, humans, and robots speaking different languages in harmony. Oh wait there's no black, Mexican or pregnant working droids, SW is racist! Let's not forget the Galactic Empire, which evokes Nazi Germany and noble privilege, is openly racist and of course was going to skew toward white males. Arguably, Phasma, a woman leader in the Empire's successor state, is a much clearer and easier to grasp example of progressiveness than any of the minorities in the resistance's army. Also, if you know anime, you know that men prefer women in lead roles. The more the merrier, dude. Otherwise, why is My Little Pony so popular?
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12-20-2017, 01:57 AM | #24 |
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Something I haven't gushed about much yet ...
Spoiler: show And some more Reddit quotes now. This time, we have two members with opposing views on how they think Episode IX is going to play out for one major character ... Spoiler: show
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12-23-2017, 01:54 AM | #25 |
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Someone asked director Rian Johnson what his thoughts were regarding the divided opinions on The Last Jedi, and Johnson replied.
What follows below are a few replies from Redditors that I want to share: Spoiler: show
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