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Old 10-07-2013, 05:43 PM   #76
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Yeah you guys can handle it. You ow the default currency, which helps.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:04 PM   #77
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Colbert's It's Not a Game - Home Game about the Government Shutdown
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:35 AM   #78
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Apparently the GOP fucked up so bad last night that Boehner has basically given up and the debt ceiling will probably be raised some time today.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:41 PM   #79
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I've said it since the 2012 election and I'll say it again: the GOP is really fucking up lately.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:51 PM   #80
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Everyone's fucking up lately.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:12 AM   #81
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It's mostly the GOP, MG. Not to knock your political beliefs, but the Republicans (specifically the hardcore Tea Partiers) weren't willing to compromise. Obama called their bluff so all the "moderate" Republicans caved and voted to raise the ceiling and end the shutdown.

We definitely need a fiscally conservative party/group to keep the liberals from spending like crazy, but one would hope for a less retarded group of people.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:09 AM   #82
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> but one would hope for a less retarded group of people.

Hey, I have a friend who is retarded, and he's not even that dense.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:35 AM   #83
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Obama doesn't help things. He's a poor president.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:42 AM   #84
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I wasn't referring just to the shutdown, more of a general observation. I actually don't know much about the shutdown b/c it's not very interesting.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:17 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
I wasn't referring just to the shutdown, more of a general observation. I actually don't know much about the shutdown b/c it's not very interesting.
Something that nearly led to a worldwide economic catastrophe is not very interesting? You have a weird definition of interesting, dude.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:42 AM   #86
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The end of the shutdown.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:42 AM   #87
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Tyranitar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Obama doesn't help things. He's a poor president.
Obama is a shitty president?! Please say it 10 more times so we fully understand this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
I wasn't referring just to the shutdown, more of a general observation. I actually don't know much about the shutdown b/c it's not very interesting.
Yeah as a whole, both sides are terrible. It'll likely get to the point where I seriously contemplate moving out of this country.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #88
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I don't understand you request :p
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:05 AM   #89
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CNN's gotten to be pretty abysmal as a source for any news, but a recent article I saw had this to say and I felt it pretty appropriate to share here. The bold emphasis is my own:
Quote:
The battle has also been beneficial to Republicans in that they have continued the process of normalizing the use of radical tactics in pushing for cuts to the federal government.

Just as many Americans seemed to accept sequestration, conservative Republicans have not yet felt any serious political threat as a result of their having forced a government shutdown.

Nor is it clear that there will be any negative consequences to them for having gone to the brink of a federal default in their fight for concessions on the budget deal.
If they are left standing, there is little reason to think that they won't use these tactics once again. The last month offers them a template.
This is preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty much what I said right here. The only thing CNN's gotten wrong here is that they're acting like the events of October 2013 are the first blueprints of their kind when, in fact, they're dusty blueprints we've seen used time and time again over the past ten to fifteen years. It's not always been Republicans pulling this sort of stunt either -- how quick we are to forget events like Wisconsin's Democrat senators fleeing for Illinois in 2011 in order to lock down the Wisconsin state senate -- but on Capitol Hill in Washington over the past five years, it's safe to say that this brinkmanship tactic has been the favorite of the Republicans ever since Obama was first sworn into office.

I saw a BBC article the other day which claimed that the current government shutdown was the first time that this had happened "in seventeen years," i.e. this hadn't happened since the days of Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. I found that very hard to believe -- still do! In spite of the evidence! -- but the one thing I can say to that is this: even if the government never actually shut down shut down for seventeen years, there have been puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenty of cases over the past seventeen years where it must've been averted on the very last day. Because this is nothing new to American politics. This is not the sort of thing which just happens once every two decades and that's it and man it's so scary bad that neither party ever dares to try it again. Hell no. Both parties have proven quite fond of this brinkmanship where they'll go on Congressional holiday -- "because the calendar says I can!" -- even though some major, major shit is set to hit the fan either a) while they're away from office or else b) mere days after their planned return. And eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevery time we go through this circus of affairs, the media plays it up like the sky is falling (and maybe because it is! Who the fuck knows anymore!) but at the end of the day nothing bad happens, people notice no real impact on their lives, and so the parties responsible for this brinkmanship suffer no negative consequences come election time.

That's the really sorry state of American domestic politics right now: that it's going to take the shit actually and irreversibly hitting the fan before we hold anyone accountable for this nonsense.

Last edited by Talon87; 10-17-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:04 PM   #90
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One could go further and argue that your entire political culture has fractured. I don't know that I would but it's an interesting thought.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:08 PM   #91
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Yeah as a whole, both sides are terrible. It'll likely get to the point where I seriously contemplate moving out of this country.
I was absentmindedly daydreaming about living in Britain the other day and it was a nice little thought. Never been there before, so obviously couldn't say either way, but there's not really anything tying me here besides family and friends (i.e. no really good job prospects or patriotism).
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #92
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My idyllic fantasies about uprooting to England were pretty harshly demolished the last time I visited in 2007. It's a fine country, but in a whole lot of ways it's basically "America except worse." I'm not saying every way, but in a whole, whole lot of ways it's like you moved from America to WorseAmerica, and it's like, why would you ever do that? Either move to a better place or else stay right where you are.

Even the fish and chips weren't as good in '07 as they'd been every other time I visited.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:14 PM   #93
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How do you mean worse? Like economically? I already know I'd be moving into a religious and political environment that isn't as inviting, but not sure what else you're getting at.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:45 PM   #94
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It's a lot of little things.

Things where Indiana > Lincolnshire as of 2007: Lawns. Meat. Air. Climate. Weather. Television. Book stores. Roads. Release dates. Fast food. Urgent care. Price of petroleum. Conventions & celebrity appearances.

Things where the UK used to be magical but has since dropped in quality to near US levels: Chocolate. Fresh fish. Cheese.

Just a lot of little things, many not listed here because they're not coming to mind off the top of my head and because it's been six years since I was last in England. Anyway, the point simply is that England is not this magical land where if you move there you're promised to be 30% happier than if you stay put in the United States. By and large, England and the United States have converged in a whole lot of ways.

To give credit where credit is due, the trains in England were still good enough in 2007 to astonish an American like myself. Maybe they've fallen in quality over the years, I dunno, but I was still really impressed by them in 2007. When you can go but twenty miles from your current position, reach a new town, and that town has an active train station, that's pretty cool. When you can reach London in like a matter of hours, hang out there, and then head back home for relatively little expense, that's amazing. I would love to be able to get on a train and be in downtown Chicago in like 45 minutes and downtown New York in like two or three all for a very low cost. Would be incredible. Unfortunately, checking out sites like this one, I'm finding something which doesn't mesh with my memories of England very well -- rather expensive fare. I mean, it's not terribly expensive, but it's not exactly pocket change either. £85.60 for round-trip fare from Grimsby to London? I could've sworn that it used to be something easily half that price for purchases made the day of, yet when I try to make a purchase for tonight, it catapults the price into the hundreds. And I could've sworn that locals who had a pre-paid for year-round pass could get a ride for like £1 to £2, but with prices like £85.60, that's not seeming very likely to me at all. So I dunno, maybe even the British railways have taken a dive since I was last there. No clue. But yeah, these prices are comparable (as an American tourist, not as a British local; we're allowing for exchange rates now) with American prices on airplane tickets that would take you round trip from Indianapolis to New York. (Can't link you because of how Orbitz does URLs, but it's $176 for the round-trip ticket, which is £108 today which is pretty darn close to that £85.60 for a trek that doesn't take but four hours by car. Yeah, Google Maps confirms this: 178 miles, 3h37m estimated by car. Versus the 709 miles or 10h52m it'd take you to get from Indianapolis to New York City.)

Anyway, this is rather off-topic. All I'm saying is, it's best to take the rose-colored lenses off as an American when you fantasize about uprooting to the UK, Canada, etc.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:48 PM   #95
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Depends on your point of view. Our politics is objectively superior to yours, subjectively better in my opinion but obviously that requires being ok with pseudo-socialism. Our political culture is much more functional than yours but you have to be ok with the europe debate and scottish independence.

Also guns are bad mkay.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #96
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You're seeking a career in politics so for you I can appreciate that it's different, but I suspect that for most of your countrymen, if we take it as fact that British politics is less dysfunctional and just plain "objectively superior" to American politics, then that probably means that they perceive even less of an impact on their daily lives from the politicians in London than we Americans do from ours in Washington, from which I infer that the superiority of British politics to American politics is a fairly moot point in any debate over whether Britain is the better place to live or America. At the end of the day:
  • The same nations unlikely to bomb the United States are unlikely to bomb the UK. (Examples: France, Japan, South Africa, Australia)
  • Jihadists are pissed at both of us. (Examples: Libyan jihadists, Afghan jihadists)
  • Both of us feel like we've slipped towards a Big Brother state over the past fifty years.
  • Soon, both of us will have shitty national health care plans. ("Shitty" not because the concept overall is shitty but because in practice I've had UK friends of the family nearly die in the 2000s from what would be routine in-and-out ER procedures in 1990s American hospitals.)
I really don't see life and death as a British citizen as being significantly different from life and death as an American citizen. You're no safer in Country X as a Brit than you are as an American, and in some cases you're probably a fair bit worse off. (Wouldn't want to be a British tourist in Argentina or Ireland, personally ...) We send our sons to die in the same wars. We're both unhappy with too much intelligence gathering. (I mean, let's face it: you guys are infamous for your CCTV state.) I don't really think it matters that much to the average Brit that his MPs are "objectively superior" to the American Congressmen in Washington, D.C.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:18 PM   #97
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Significantly more likely to be shot in America.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:40 PM   #98
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http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/?...t-wsj#view=all

In 2010, there were 9,601 homicides in which the victim was killed by a firearm in the United States. From 2000 to 2010 inclusive, there were 111,289 such homicides.

In 2010, there were 1,775 homicides in which the victim was killed by a knife in the United States. From 2000 to 2010 inclusive, there were 20,503 such homicides.

http://www.citizensreportuk.org/repo...olence-uk.html

In 2011/12, there were 640 homicides in Great Britain in total. Of these, 44 (6%) involved a firearm. EDIT: this is half of each year, not both years put together.

We can't grab 2011 or 2012 using the first link, but we can grab 2009 and 2010. there were 28,721 homicides in total, of which 19,533 (68%) involved a firearm. EDIT: too lazy to split this statistic apart. Corrected the numbers below though.

Conclusion: even if you erased all homicides by firearms in the United States and even if you pretended that none of those homicides would have been carried out by other means, you would still have been way, way more likely to be murdered in the United States than you would have in Great Britain. Indeed, for comparison, there were approximately 2.7 times as many murders by knife alone in one year in America than there were murders of all kinds in Great Britain in just one year (1,775 vs. approx. 640) while the population of the United States is only approximately 5.0 times as large as that of the entire UK.

So while you can try and develop an anti-gun rhetoric for why the UK is better, I think you needn't really bother: you may as well go for the jugular and develop a low-homicide rhetoric instead. "The UK! We're better! Because we're less likely to kill one another! "

But yeah, wow, only 640 homicides a year ... I have a hard time even believing that figure. I feel like there are 640 homicides in a city like Chicago or New York alone each year, never mind the whole of the country. In America, many of the suburbs with the highest property values are those which can boast to have known either a) no murders in living memory or much more commonly b) no murders in over 10 years. I guess I always just took it for granted that murder happens no matter where you are, but that's pretty remarkable that you guys only have 640 murders a year. Even if we scale for population differences, that'd be about 3,200 murders. Good job, guys!

Last edited by Talon87; 10-17-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:58 PM   #99
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What you have to remember is that Brits are allowed to kill welshies without it counting.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:43 PM   #100
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There are probably way more than 640 homicides in Chicago in a year.
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