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Old 11-11-2011, 03:38 AM   #1
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

I'm excited. Are you excited?

IGN has given it a 10 and it's just getting amazing reviews everywhere. I mean yeah it's a Zelda game and should get great reviews, but my expectations are higher than usual for this one.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:46 AM   #2
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I'm excited yes, but I try to not spoil myself. Partly because I don't like spoilers and partly because it makes it more difficult to wait for the actual release.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:48 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by IGN
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword is the greatest Zelda game ever created. It's the best game for Wii and one of the finest video game accomplishments of the past 10 years.
Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up. That's quite a mighty statement.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:31 AM   #4
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I can potentially believe the last two parts. The first... we'll see.

On an unrelated note, deoxys, your avvy is amazing.
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:08 AM   #5
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Man, I really want to play this game. I'll try to get it around Christmas and play it then.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:14 AM   #6
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I wish I could play this game. ;.;
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up. That's quite a mighty statement.
If this game is actually better than Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess/Majora's Mask/Super Mario Galaxy/et al... wow. Just wow.

I mean Ocarina of Time (in terms of average ratings), is the greatest game of all time, followed by SMG and SMG2. And tbh, I'd mostly agree - they are spectacular. If this is even in the same class.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:25 AM   #8
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This shows how far out of the loop I am in terms of general gaming. A couple years back and I'd have had a countdown timer set to the launch date for a game like this, and yet now before I saw this thread it was still just an E3 poster game in the back of my head.

I may have to dig out my Wii and get this. And also finish the other Zelda games I have. I never did get round to completing OoT and TP...

EDIT the first: wtf is up with the release dates? Europe -> America -> Japan -> Australia?

I mean yay for Europe actually getting games first, but before Japan? I was amazed when we got Black and White a whole two days before America, this is just crazy.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:06 AM   #9
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So having just picked this up, I wonder if I can finish it before it comes out in the states?
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:14 AM   #10
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I'm playing it right now in the standard intro location, cutscenes galore.

I would try that challenge, but I have no idea how long I'm working tomorrow. Should probably have it done in a week or so though.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:35 AM   #11
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Read some reviews online. Am no longer nearly as "aww man, I wish I could play this " as I was just yesterday. It seems that a lot of the people who gave the game a 100/100 rating are under fire for lack of journalistic integrity and that there are a variety of problems with the game, including but not limited to:
  • the harp in this game is much more worthless and unimpressive than either the ocarina in OoT or the baton in WW
  • there's no way to change day to night or night to day, so you're pretty much stuck having to wait around for the daylight to change. (If this is true, WOW, what a flub.)
  • the game is being compared with Majora's Mask in several ways, including the fact that the game very much has a "fetch-and-return" flavor to it where everything core takes place at Clock Town this game's central hub. Majora's Mask fans, rejoice. For the rest of us, this bodes poorly. Fetch quests are dumb.
  • I even read one reviewer writing that this was some of the most unimpressive Zelda music he'd heard in a home console game D:
Obviously opinions will vary, but I guess this just goes to show that the same fever pitch which surrounded Twilight Princess ("OHMIGOD, BEST ZELDA EVER!") is already enveloping this one, too: and that, like Twilight Princess before it, perhaps Skyward Sword isn't as deserving of the A+ grade certain journalism outlets have been so quick to give it.

1Up - 85/100
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As amazing and genuinely surprising as moments in Skyward Sword can be, the game isn't without flaws. Fetch quests quickly become a tiresome and repetitive exercise. Even dowsing, a compass-like ability of the Goddess Sword designed to help locate hidden objects and make these quests bearable, becomes overused quickly. Having an open overworld space shouldn't require finding so many scattered objects (even if they're "sacred" scattered objects), and it's not long before repetition and boredom sets in.
EGM - 85/100
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n the grand scheme of things, this could be construed as minor, but what really keeps Skyward Sword from reaching the level of several of its predecessors is the control scheme. Remember how I mentioned that the visual design emphasizes enemy strengths and weaknesses? Well, this graphical quirk comes from the conscious decision to make Skyward Sword too reliant on motion controls and Wii MotionPlus—and it’s this element that singlehandedly holds the game back from elite status.

[...]

So, yeah, the controls are pretty rough. And it breaks my heart, because I think this could’ve been one of the greatest Zelda games yet had the controls just worked. But, despite the controls, this is still a great Zelda game.
GameTrailers - 91/100
Watching this video review, it becomes quickly apparent that in several of the cutscenes the graphics actually look jaggier than Wind Waker's smooth cel-shaded graphics or Twilight Princess's minimally-jaggy realistic graphics. This is very disappointing. Graphics don't really make or break a Zelda game for most of us, but still ... the whole point of going for cartoon graphics was precisely to avoid this sort of blemish which doesn't age well with games. The reason Wind Waker is such a timeless title for kids even today to play is because, courtesy of its "toon" graphics, it looks like it could have been released just last year. The same phenomenon holds for Super Mario World (SNES). Yet the graphics here not only look like they're in danger of becoming ugly to future generations very quickly -- they're already ugly , jaggier than any home console Zelda since Majora's Mask on the N64.

Thankfully, this seems limited to only a few of the scenes I've seen in the GameTrailers trailer, so here's hoping they're the exceptions to an otherwise pristine rule. Not holding my breath, though ...
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:44 PM   #12
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So, I've started playing Skyward Sword. (See here for how I just got done playing Ocarina of Time for 3DS.) Yuki kinda sorta talked me into it.

I'm still very early into the game. (I only just met Fi about ten minutes before where I saved and put the game down.) I'm enjoying it so far. For me, often times Zelda has been a franchise where I've enjoyed the games in spite of their gameplay because of their stories. That seems like it's going to be the theme with Skyward Sword. Gameplay's off to a rough start, but I have absolutely zero qualms with all of this story they keep dumping on my plate. Fine by me!

The best way I can sum up my feelings on the story so far (admittedly as shallow as I am into it) ... I would say, it's like reading a pretty good fanfic. As fanfics go, it's good! But I don't want it to feel like a fanfic. And it kinda does right now. So, we'll see.

If nothing else, they really, really knocked it out of the park with this one:

BORKED

The quiet, solemn harp part is sublime. And perfect. So, so perfect. It perfectly captures the ideas of beauty, ancientness, and mythicality.

Then you have the switch into the adventurous rendition of the melody, and it's like ... fuck yes, here we go! Time for adventure, boys!
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:55 AM   #13
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Isn't that the opposite reason to play a Zelda game from everyone else?

Most of my friends growing up appreciated the gameplay and puzzle solving the most, especially when Zelda's backstory was little more than a frame tale. That changed with Ocarina and Majora's Mask but such things didn't really carry over so much into the Gamecube era. And while we had stuff like Twilight Princess for the Wii, that had also revealed that the Zelda universe is subject to malicious, devastating, and ultimately pointless reincarnation, which regressed the enthusiasm created by the N64 games.

There are no true stakes in Zelda, because sometimes Ganon wins, sometimes Link wins, and time marches forward no matter what.

I have strong, fond memories of the Oracle series and want to play the N64-era games but I have lost most of my interest in Zelda beyond that. Skyward Sword has a gimmick premise.
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Isn't that the opposite reason to play a Zelda game from everyone else?
Pretty much!

I think Mario and Zelda started off a lot alike. Both had threadbare backstories provided to flavor what you were playing. Ganon and Koopa, Hyrule and the Mushroom Kingdom, Moblins and Koopa Troopas, Peach and Zelda ...

Then, as time went on, Zelda games became increasingly story-driven whereas Mario games remained gameplay-driven. You could argue that Ocarina of Time is the perfect Zelda game (in that it is both story-richer than its predecessors while also still being comparable in gameplay to them, and gameplay-richer than a game like Skyward Sword), but I'd still argue that Ocarina is hugely a love letter to fans of Link to the Past's story and provides a hands-on look at not only the genesis of the Zelda mythos (ignoring "Me first! Me first!" Skyward Sword which came much later) but also the backstory which flavored Link to the Past.

Playing Skyward Sword, I feel like it's easy to see that the team progressively "lost their way." With Skyward Sword, you have a game who gameplay-wise is an odd mishmash between "made for ages 4-10" (90% of the game) and "far too difficult to decipher for anyone younger than a teen" (10% of the game but a 10% which utterly blocks the little ones from progressing easily). Most of the time I'm playing Skyward Sword, it's:
  1. very hallway-ey
  2. very easy mechanically ("just swing your Wiimote around like crazy and you can't lose!")
  3. very simple (usually no more than 2-3 enemies per screen-zone at a time)
There's little in the way of exploration, and this trend away from exploration is something you can easily see if you compare Zelda I against LttP against OoT against Skyward Sword. (Each game in that list being progressively less "Now where do I go next?" than the last.)

There's little in the way of puzzle-solving (outside of dungeons). The primary gameplay experience is a tepid hack-and-slash.

So really, for me personally, the only/main reason to be playing this game is for the story. I enjoy the Zelda mythos enough to want to explore more of it hands-on. It may not be the best-written universe ever, but I feel like OoT, WW, and TP together make a nice, neat little package -- and building off of that you then get my interest in things like Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild.

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Most of my friends growing up appreciated the gameplay and puzzle solving the most, especially when Zelda's backstory was little more than a frame tale.
Sure! And that's the thing: as a kid, I hated Zelda I; and as an adult, I'm not much interested in it either. I don't much care for games that ask me to blindly go around to every single square, one at a time, thousands upon thousands of them, and to mechanically go through my inventory and blindly try items to see what works and what doesn't. "Can I bomb A4 of Screen 1? No. Can I bomb A5 of Screen 1? No. Can I bomb A6 of Screen 1? No. Can I ..." Boooooooooooring. And dumb. That's just my opinion. But I really don't care for it. Once you take the "puzzle-solving" out of Zelda I, i.e. the mind-numbing tile checking, the game ... really isn't that fun to play. Again, at least not for me it isn't. I'd much much much rather be playing something like Super Mario World, Mega Man 3, or Super Street Fighter II.

Ocarina is fun to play, I will give it that, but I'm much moreso in it for the story. It's the story that pulled me back. It's the story that I enjoyed the most out of this revisit.

Skyward Sword, so far (I'm about to enter the very first temple), has been pretty drab gameplay-wise. But what I enjoy out of it is the story and characters, poorly developed (compared with proper novels and films) as they may be. I enjoy looking at the relationship between First Link and First Zelda. I enjoy Fi so far. (As I described to Yuki, she is essentially "a sassy Nagato Yuki.") I'm interested to see what the writers have planned for this retconned genesis of the Zelda mythos. That's why I keep playing. Not to catch bugs in my bug net. Not to knock Moblins off of tightropes with my slingshot. Not to shield bash Deku Babas. But for the story.

You might ask, then, why I'm even playing at all. Why not simply watch a playthrough on YouTube? Well, it's just not the same, usually. I'd rather be playing the game myself than watching someone else play it. Simple as that. This isn't always the case; but here, for my first time playing Skyward Sword, it is.

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The Zelda universe is subject to malicious, devastating, and ultimately pointless reincarnation.
I don't think it's necessarily pointless. Rather, I think it's part of the appeal of the series.

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There are no true stakes in Zelda, because sometimes Ganon wins, sometimes Link wins, and time marches forward no matter what.
On the contrary, it's this having all these timeline shenanigans that makes the modern series interesting to people like me. I really, really enjoy the split timeline following the conclusion of Ocarina of Time and the consequences it has for any of the games set after OoT. In point of fact, a good portion of my hype-gushing with Yuki over the past two weeks with Breath of the Wild has been steeped in this. Breath of the Wild has the potential to be really, really emotionally gripping IMO if it explores either of two possibilities I've considered, both of which are consequences of a timeline split:

Spoiler: show
One theory is that Breath of the Wild takes place on the Defeated Hero of Time timeline; that BotW's Link is the Hero of Time resurrected; and that BotW will be the story of his second chance. That's interesting.

A second theory is that Breath of the Wild takes place on the Adult Link timeline, and that its history forks off from Wind Waker's during the events portrayed in Wind Waker's tapestry. In Wind Waker, we're told that the people of Hyrule cried out for the Hero of Time but he didn't answer, none showed up, Ganon was about to win, and the goddesses were forced to seal Hyrule away under an ocean. But what if during that same crying-out-for-a-hero moment, the royal family of Hyrule does something desperate? What if they possess a sample of the Hero of Time's DNA (be it blood from a tunic, be it a lock of his hair, be it ...) and they take that DNA and place it in the so-called "Resurrection Chamber" to produce a clone of the Hero of Time? So he's not the same person as the OoT Hero of Time, but he is, genetically, the same person? This is an interesting theory too.

You can't have these without the timeline fork. You can't have these in a world where the hero is always triumphant and there's only ever been one, linear history. It's this enjoyment of exploration of timeline forking by the Zelda team that allows for them, as story writers, and allows for us, as story consumers, to both enjoy exploring a wide array of tales that might not otherwise be possible in a more locked-down universe.

As a visual novel fan, you should be able to easily appreciate this. This is little different from VN authors wanting to have their cake and eat it too by writing multiple paths set in the same setting with the same cast of characters. "I want to explore Shirou x Sakura ... but I also want to explore Shirou x Rin ... and I don't want it to be some stupid-ass harem where he has both girls at once ... What do I do ... " The VN writer answers this by simply saying, "Aha! I know! I'll write multiple paths!" Essentially, those paths can be treated as different timelines.

That's all the Zelda team is doing. They're VN'ing it up. "Wind Waker's the sequel to OoT that takes place in the Adult Link timeline ... Twilight Princess's the sequel to OoT that takes place in the Child Link timeline ..." Who knows where Breath of the Wild falls exactly, but wherever it falls, I think it should be interesting.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:50 PM   #15
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Yuki kinda sorta talked me into it.
For the record, I specifically recommended SS solely for its story/implications its ending may (or may not) have on BoW and Zelda canon as a whole rather than its gameplay, which I personally found difficult due to the Wii motion controls. (Granted, it's the only Wii game I've owned/played.) And that's unfortunately the major drawback of the game: It's just not as "fun" to play as other Zelda titles. There's a reason I've only played it once as opposed to most other installments; if it were easier to handle the Wiimote/less tiring I'd be more eager to replay.

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There are no true stakes in Zelda
Tell that to all the people who had their homes flooded by the Goddesses. (Or Link himself as he lies dying at Ganon's hands, according to the official timeline.)

Also for the record, I'm not as invested in the whole "Zelda timeline" as other fans/Talon. I appreciate the fact that each game can be enjoyed separately as its own legend, while having hints at an overarching tale. Trying to make all the pieces fit together cohesively isn't my priority though.

That said, Dopple does bring up a point of "pointless reincarnation", which is something that pisses me off at the direction the series has taken. But we can discuss further once Talon finishes the game.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 02-04-2017 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Sure! And that's the thing: as a kid, I hated Zelda I; and as an adult, I'm not much interested in it either. I don't much care for games that ask me to blindly go around to every single square, one at a time, thousands upon thousands of them, and to mechanically go through my inventory and blindly try items to see what works and what doesn't. "Can I bomb A4 of Screen 1? No. Can I bomb A5 of Screen 1? No. Can I bomb A6 of Screen 1? No. Can I ..." Boooooooooooring. And dumb. That's just my opinion. But I really don't care for it. Once you take the "puzzle-solving" out of Zelda I, i.e. the mind-numbing tile checking, the game ... really isn't that fun to play. Again, at least not for me it isn't. I'd much much much rather be playing something like Super Mario World, Mega Man 3, or Super Street Fighter II.

Ocarina is fun to play, I will give it that, but I'm much moreso in it for the story. It's the story that pulled me back. It's the story that I enjoyed the most out of this revisit.

Skyward Sword, so far (I'm about to enter the very first temple), has been pretty drab gameplay-wise. But what I enjoy out of it is the story and characters, poorly developed (compared with proper novels and films) as they may be. I enjoy looking at the relationship between First Link and First Zelda. I enjoy Fi so far. (As I described to Yuki, she is essentially "a sassy Nagato Yuki.") I'm interested to see what the writers have planned for this retconned genesis of the Zelda mythos. That's why I keep playing. Not to catch bugs in my bug net. Not to knock Moblins off of tightropes with my slingshot. Not to shield bash Deku Babas. But for the story.
My experience is much different. I was a complete Zelda grasshopper before playing Oracle of Ages, but I had just beaten Pokemon Blue and staying on the same platform (with the same game engine!) seemed like a natural transition.

Ages didn't really dig into the mythos a lot, it was very show-not-tell, but the story in front of you was one that you could easily get invested in:

-you're sent to Labrynna to meet Nayru
-you meet Nayru, a beautiful singer, and see how important she is to her friends and the world
-she's possessed by Veran against her will (because of you), teleports into the past and starts to unravel the present you've been introduced to
-the world you're thrust into has an established culture, common sense, and racial dynamic that you don't understand

Say what you will about Capcom, but for an impressionable child, this was a great way to introduce a new world. The game immediately tricks you, and then guilts you for falling for the trick, and you the player feel obligated to the lives lost/affected by Veran to rescue Nayru.

In that sense, I didn't care for the puzzles of Zelda so much, because the underlying meta plotline of revenge on Veran more or less made everything in front of me a frustrating obstacle. This wasn't Pokemon, where you were having your own adventure at your own leisure. This was a race against time, and a fight against someone who did you wrong.

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You can't have these without the timeline fork. You can't have these in a world where the hero is always triumphant and there's only ever been one, linear history. It's this enjoyment of exploration of timeline forking by the Zelda team that allows for them, as story writers, and allows for us, as story consumers, to both enjoy exploring a wide array of tales that might not otherwise be possible in a more locked-down universe.

As a visual novel fan, you should be able to easily appreciate this. This is little different from VN authors wanting to have their cake and eat it too by writing multiple paths set in the same setting with the same cast of characters. "I want to explore Shirou x Sakura ... but I also want to explore Shirou x Rin ... and I don't want it to be some stupid-ass harem where he has both girls at once ... What do I do ... " The VN writer answers this by simply saying, "Aha! I know! I'll write multiple paths!" Essentially, those paths can be treated as different timelines.
The three paths isn't a problem, and is something I appreciated, but I have two points in my grievance toward it. The first is that within the three universes, the same story is repeating over and over, based on events spun-off from Ocarina of Time. It gives off the impression that the events are cosmic in design, and are not decided by the characters themselves. I find the idea of destiny or fate something offensive in video games, which is why I also dislike the idea of a "main path" or "true route" in VNs too. It's like saying there's a right future, and everything else is a bad future.

On top of that, could you tell me which of the Zelda timelines is the real good end?

In the Fallen Hero Timeline, the A Link to the Past Link defeats the most powerful Ganondorf/Ganon incarnation ever, who had the assembled Triforce on his side. OoT Link couldn't defeat Ganondorf with just the Triforce of Power, and yet LTTP Link beats him at full++ strength. Ganon revives twice and is KO'd twice more. Is this not the good end, where the Hero is always triumphant?

In the "supposed" good timeline, the adult one, Hyrule floods and civilization ends. Doh?! In either child/adult split of the Successful Hero timeline, Ganondorf continues to revive or reincarnate, or get out of jail free. This is another reason to me why Majora's Mask is underrated, even today - we don't need Ganon/Ganondorf as an antagonist all the time

My other big beef is with something like Skyward Sword itself, which predates OoT, along with other games in the series. SS effectively gets around your argument of the benefit in having three timelines by having a versus Ganon-like story as a predecessor to OoT. Except this time, for reasons that might be spoiler, it's something else.

MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS!

Spoiler: show
"gods". Boy, I really dislike gods with a lowercase g in fiction, especially RPGs/medieval fiction. It's like the complete anathema to who I am religiously - I am a strong monotheist who believes in a disembodied, perfect and omnipotent being who didn't give his creations a set destiny and has a hands-off approach to his scenario.

Instead, fiction and in this case Zelda opt for human-like, imperfect beings who play a direct role in the world and then set designated individuals on a destiny of reincarnation. Jeez.

Who was the first man who popped Hylia's mortal cherry? I don't know, nor care, but the idea is offensive to me.
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:37 AM   #17
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This is another reason to me why Majora's Mask is underrated, even today - we don't need Ganon/Ganondorf as an antagonist all the time
Hear hear. *inb4 Talon voices his grievances with the game*

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My other big beef is with something like Skyward Sword itself, which predates OoT, along with other games in the series. SS effectively gets around your argument of the benefit in having three timelines by having a versus Ganon-like story as a predecessor to OoT. Except this time, for reasons that might be spoiler, it's something else.

MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS!

Spoiler: show
"gods". Boy, I really dislike gods with a lowercase g in fiction, especially RPGs/medieval fiction. It's like the complete anathema to who I am religiously - I am a strong monotheist who believes in a disembodied, perfect and omnipotent being who didn't give his creations a set destiny and has a hands-off approach to his scenario.

Instead, fiction and in this case Zelda opt for human-like, imperfect beings who play a direct role in the world and then set designated individuals on a destiny of reincarnation. Jeez.

Who was the first man who popped Hylia's mortal cherry? I don't know, nor care, but the idea is offensive to me.
While I don't have the same antipathy towards concepts of "fate", I am bothered by the fact:

Spoiler: show
SS tells us flat-out that Ganondorf is essentially evil reincarnate. That he is not just a mere man (with possibly initial good intent, as evidenced by WW) corrupted by power, but one who is as bound to play out his role as Villain as the Princess and the Hero. It basically makes him a "cursed" and pitiable being, in my opinion. Forced to do eternal battle with the boy in green, fueled by an ancient feud and hatred that might not even be his own. Who knows, if he hadn't this piece of a "dark god's soul" brewing inside him from the beginning, he might've ended up a great leader. Guess we'll never know, because Destiny states he must hate Hyrule and therefore try to conquer/destroy it. Ugh. And as you said, in the end no one really "wins". Because they're just stuck in an endless circle (or triangle, as it were).


In the end, it seems we all have different approaches to enjoying these games, and one type of Zelda title may inherently appeal to one over the other. Dopple's first experience with the franchise actually reminds me somewhat of my own when playing OoT. Yet, even if efforts to fully "defeat the bad guy" ultimately prove fruitless on a grand scale, I don't think that undermines the accomplishment of saving Hyrule/whatever land Link happens upon and bringing peace to its people, even if only for a "short" period. After all, even but one life successfully spared by his bravery is better than none at all. There will always be evil that poses a threat in some form (because this is fantasy and we wouldn't have a continuing series otherwise, but also generally speaking), yet (hopefully) there will always be someone courageous enough to step up and stand against - if not definitively stop it for good.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:45 AM   #18
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So, I know the story and details of Skyward Sword and obviously have my own take as a non-player, and the opinions above here.

But lately, I've seen random people invoke this title as an example of something of a schism that destroyed the Zelda fanbase forever. Skyward Sword is being pulled into the same conversation as The Last Jedi or Sword & Shield, which is remarkable as both those examples are polar opposites. TLJ is so different it's off-putting, while SS is so bland and inoffensive, it's aggressively offensive.

So, what is it? A decade after Skyward Sword, why is this title considered the most hated Zelda game? You'd have thought WW, Majora, Minish Cap or ALbW are the worst games, but I dunno. My Zelda experience is relatively limited compared to most, but it's enough that I'm very interested in this.
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:47 AM   #19
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If a game has more than one sequel, people will find one to hate no matter what. I didn't find Skyward Sword all that bad. It's not my favorite, but I don't hate it in the least.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:32 PM   #20
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tbh I don't think I've ever seen Skyward Sword hailed as the worst Zelda. That typically goes to one of the DS titles.

As for the unpopularity, Skyward Sword mandated motion controls, which was a big issue. Everything in the game revolved on motion controls, making it very hard to sit and play casually: you kind of had to do significant directional swings to get anything to register. Compared to some of those titles on there, most of which I've often heard touted as viable contenders for top 3 best games... It has its flaws. Plus you have to do a ridiculously long sidequest to get a shield, which does not help.

Then look at the perspective of when it came out: It was following on from Twilight Princess, a widely-renowned game, after a pair of handhelds that were pretty bad for Zelda games (not bad games per se, but when you rank the Zelda games, PH and ST usually end up low). At the time, there were aspirations and they ended up leading into a clunky motion control-centric game with the most irritating assistant since Na'vi.

That being said, the motion controls are still slightly better than the shitty touch screen controls in PH/ST.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leighqu View Post
If a game has more than one sequel, people will find one to hate no matter what. I didn't find Skyward Sword all that bad. It's not my favorite, but I don't hate it in the least.
Not necessarily...see my observation below.

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most of which I've often heard touted as viable contenders for top 3 best games... It has its flaws. Plus you have to do a ridiculously long sidequest to get a shield, which does not help.
I picked those titles just because there's a split audience. You'll never find someone saying ALTTP or Ocarina are bad, but the dislike for WW are reflected in its poor sales, and there are definitely negative comments toward Majora and ALBW online.

The Star Wars comparison is interesting because people often stereotype SW fans as never being satisfied, but that's a strawman. Shows like The Mandalorian show that the fans can be united and not be at each other's throats.

So when there's a sharply divided opinion, I get interested, hence why I asked about it.

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Then look at the perspective of when it came out: It was following on from Twilight Princess, a widely-renowned game, after a pair of handhelds that were pretty bad for Zelda games (not bad games per se, but when you rank the Zelda games, PH and ST usually end up low). At the time, there were aspirations and they ended up leading into a clunky motion control-centric game with the most irritating assistant since Na'vi.

That being said, the motion controls are still slightly better than the shitty touch screen controls in PH/ST.
Motion controls sounds like a really grounded, understandable complaint, but is that really enough reason people get passive aggressive and mention this title specifically?
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:28 PM   #22
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Bear in mind this game came after a five-year gap from the console Zeldas and did little more than double down on the worst parts of its predecessor, Twilight Princess. The game itself has little more than a gimmicky control scheme to stand it out, and there were two games immediately before that with similarly bad control schemes. Add in that apparently it's also a very linear game, and it kind of just lacks a lot of anything to make it particularly stand-out.

Oh and it hard required both a MotionPlus and a Nunchuk to play, because they really went in on the control design. The former of which typically had to be recalibrated every half hour or so.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
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You'd have thought WW, Majora, Minish Cap or ALbW are the worst games, but I dunno.
Wait, who says Minish Cap is the worst Zelda game? '~' I can't speak for ALbW since I haven't played it, and while I can understand why some people would dislike WW/MM, I'm not sure what would qualify Minish Cap as "bad" other than it being kinda short.

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Motion controls sounds like a really grounded, understandable complaint, but is that really enough reason people get passive aggressive and mention this title specifically?
SS had more issues than just the motion controls, though I'd say it was a huge factor. Really, rather than a singular flaw, I'm sure it was a lot of little straws that broke Naboris's back. As also brought up, many found Fi frustrating for her constant intrusive input which was merely stating the obvious or else parroting back instructional text boxes that had already popped up - and just the general hand-holdiness of the game felt like a giant step back, along with other bizarre miscellaneous mechanics that bog it down further. (One of my "favorite" draggy design decisions is how every time you turn the game off and back on, whenever you pick up a collectible it opens up your menu and shows where it goes again, even if you've obtained it before. It was already an annoying feature in TP with rupees, not sure why they'd make it even *more* obnoxious.)

Story-wise, I do think there are some charming points (despite the contentiousness of the ending as aforementioned). A few of the characters are really great, but then there are others that fall flat IMO. Fi being one of them - I don't mind her overbearing function so much (same with Navi), but she was sorely lacking development I would've liked/frankly expected to see - especially coming off the heels of Twilight Princess where Midna had such an amazing sidekick arc. Fi's robotlike personality meanwhile stayed completely static throughout the entire game, and her final small shift in demeanor was just "too little, too late" for me.

Really, like SwSh, SS's biggest problem overall is that it reeks of a rushed job, with plenty of repetitiveness to pad out its runtime. (Ex: Fighting the same boss multiple times, and revisiting a limited number of areas over and over again.) SS did have a lot of cool and original ideas (heck it has a couple of my favorite dungeon concepts), but it felt more like a hodgepodge haphazardly thrown together, with several things being cut out due to crunch I imagine. As its main selling point was to show off the Wii's motion control capabilities, yet released towards the end of its cycle (with the Wii U coming out the following year) - not to mention five years having already passed since the last Zelda installment (most of which was probably spent towards tinkering with said controls when the technology just isn't at that advanced stage yet) - I suspect it was simply rolled out under a "it's either now or never" mentality.

Hence why I'm glad that the team took their time to really polish up BotW, even if it meant pushing back the release date repeatedly. (In addition I love that it actually addresses all my grievances with SS's plot.) Having re-experienced SS last year with Talon, and just started another rewatch of a stream, there are many things I do enjoy about it as a spectator, but sadly again the biggest block for me is that it's just not very fun to play, with the motion controls being my major gripe. It's a shame too that similar to SwSh, there's a sense that it could've been so much better/"more" if given the time. In this case at least they took the criticisms to heart and improved vastly upon them in BotW to give us a free, open world adventure with tons of content to explore and a dynamic battle system that doesn't get old; that breaks conventions but also treats the player as competent enough to figure things out on their own (whether or not they've played a Zelda/video game before), and lets them forge their own path without forcing anything down their throat (even if at the cost of some more compelling story elements compared to past titles). I can only hope Gamefreak does the same in the future, but I doubt it we'll see.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 01-02-2020 at 11:52 PM.
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