07-21-2013, 08:20 AM | #551 |
Foot, meet mouth.
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http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/randombattle-40780680
It's not very interesting, reasonably one-sided thanks to great RNG for me...but just watch 'till the end and...well, see what happens. |
07-21-2013, 01:48 PM | #552 |
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
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Yeah, Lost, what blaze is saying about banning both Sun and Rain is that if one was banned on it's own, the other would utterly dominanate.
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07-21-2013, 03:39 PM | #553 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Strategic switching. (Random Battle ; 70 turns)
It's not really an annoying stall match -- it's just a lot of switching -- so if you want to see an (imo) exciting lengthy match, check this one out. Not super exciting or anything, but it's not like we sit there spamming Rest or Recover a whole bunch. (Okay, there is one part with two Roosters squaring off, but I swear it's not that long nor bad a portion.) Spoiler: show
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07-22-2013, 02:30 PM | #554 |
Volcano Badge
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tl;dr- people need to stop complaining and banning things without reason. Either keep all weather, or ban it- the only reason people are bitching about Sun+ Chlorophyll is because they didn't think about what happens when Drizzle/swift swim got ban
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07-22-2013, 02:37 PM | #555 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Not really. Sun + Chloro only gets bad once rain is totally out of the picture.
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07-22-2013, 02:51 PM | #556 |
Problematic Fave
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I can't believe that we have a weather meta but no Castform.
It seems criminal, to me. :< Probably an anti-Sun thing, from the looks of it, seeing as Weather Ball is fire typed in Sun and the primary threat from Sun teams is Chlorophyll which is almost exclusively restricted to Grass types.
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07-22-2013, 02:55 PM | #557 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
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Yeah, there's a core difference between rain + Swift Swim and sun + Chlorophyll and it's this:
Your average Swift Swim Pokémon:
That stated, I do actually share the same ban views as Firewater on this. Either ban all of the weather or else ban none of it. The reason being that there's always going to be a tier when it comes to weather (Sand > Rain > Sun > Hail as of Generation 5 when allowing 100% of non-legendaries; I'd put Rain ahead of Sand myself in past generations, but the combination of Garchomp and Excadrill in Gen 5 pushes this one over the edge for sand) and so whenever you defang the current king, you're always going to promote the prior prince to king status and renew the cycle of bitching and nagging about things. Which is pretty much exactly how this went down. ^^; First one to get banned? Sand Rush Excadrill and (once again) Sand Veil Garchomp. Bye-bye sand dominance in the breaking dawn hours of Gen 5 competitive play, hellooooooo Kingdra teams! Second one to get banned? Why, Swift Swim Kingdra, of course. Now you guys are talking about banning rain completely, which just means that sun is going to rule the roost undeterred. People will tire of that bullshit very quickly and soon after Drought + Chlorophyll Venusaur will get the ban, just as Drizzle + Swift Swim Kingdra did. And then what'll happen if you wind up pushing it farther and you ban sun entirely? You'll be left with just hail. Poor, pitiful hail. And then people will nag because hail teams are actually pretty decent, especially when they don't have to worry about vying for weather supremacy with any of the other three weather types. People will ask "Well how come hail gets special treatment, huh? " and before long it, too, will get banned. So can we just cut the crap and skip right ahead to the inevitable end result please? Can we just agree to either ban all of the insta-weather abilities from OU or else to ban none of them and laugh at how unfun that makes modern Pokémon because seriously fuck Sand Rush Excadrill and Swift Swim Kingdra?
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07-24-2013, 03:57 AM | #559 |
Mrow?
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Yeah Sand actually still works very well, speaking as someone whose main OU team is Sand.
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07-24-2013, 07:15 AM | #560 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
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Where did I say sand doesn't work without those two? I said sand is king with those two allowed in. Without them, I feel the balance tips back towards rain. And would you look at that: the usage stats agree. (Sand is still up there, but Politoed ekes out Tyranitar and Rotom-W, Starmie, Keldeo, etc. are really only accompanied by Garchomp [wtf, he's back still? ] and that's about it. Terrakion, Gliscor, etc. show up but quite a bit later.)
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07-24-2013, 10:15 AM | #561 |
Insanity
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Agreeing with both FW and Talon here. That would of been the route how it would of gone if that proposal didn't happen. Besides, I do think rain is king as of right now, and it really was king in the days of Torny-T. They let Garchomp back in and banned the Veil abilities since the evasion boosts proved to broken. I still want then to suspect test Exca in OU again since it has so many more counters now. Mainly Keldeo and TechniLoom. It's really gimmicky in Ubers anyways, where Rain and Sun are the absolute king.
Speaking of Keldeo I hope it gets banned. It's only hard counter is Celebi and that can be taken care of easy enough with team support.
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I fill my lungs with everything You want someone that I can't be You say it's insanity, but I say that's my life Fizzy Bubbles |
07-24-2013, 10:51 AM | #562 | |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Quote:
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07-24-2013, 10:59 AM | #563 | |
Insanity
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Quote:
Even if Ubers is a ban list it's still pretty fun. I personally consider it a one way in, no way out tier myself, which is essentially a ban list.
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I fill my lungs with everything You want someone that I can't be You say it's insanity, but I say that's my life Fizzy Bubbles |
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07-24-2013, 11:08 AM | #564 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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Well there's a way out, but it's only if people overestimate your power before you're released, but then realize that your movepool is garbage and you get destroyed by Scizor.
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07-24-2013, 11:21 AM | #565 | |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Quote:
Which has all the movepool it ever needs.
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07-24-2013, 12:03 PM | #566 | |
時の彼方へ
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Sand Rush Excadrill is simply too good for OU. Period. The only reason you can call it "gimmicky" in Ubers is because the other weathers so utterly dominate as to leave no room for sand, hence why sand teams can be perceived as gimmicky in Ubers. But in OU, Excadrill's Ground/Steel typing (which affords two immunities and a boatload of resistances), his free Choice Scarf in sand (and again, it's better than that since it's doubling his speed, not 1.5x'ing it), and his choice of either a held Choice Band or a Swords Dance set (almost always the latter as I recall, with Air Balloon for good anti-Earthquake measure). Yeah, sneaking a quick peek at Smogon reminds one of this:
Quote:
Memories of Excadrill and annoyance with rain teams were pretty much the driving factors behind my decision to place Sunny Day on one of my team members. It was an utter waste of a move save for the fact that it allowed me to erase the enemy's desired weather once their weather generator was knocked out. I recently got rid of the move, but I'd bring it back in a heartbeat if Excadrill were brought back to OU. That ... or I'd continue to sit out OU since such an OU environment would almost certainly boil down to 45% sand teams 45% rain teams 10% people who like to be different but end up failing to reach the top. To put things into perspective with Excadrill, consider this:
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07-24-2013, 01:33 PM | #567 |
Problematic Fave
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What if I just like Kingdra?
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07-24-2013, 01:42 PM | #568 |
時の彼方へ
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You can just like Kingdra. One of my Story Mode Six in Ruby was Andromeda the lady Kingdra. But I'm just saying that if more and more people want to see Drizzle banned period, and if they already did ban Drizzle + Swift Swim Kingdra ages ago, then what on earth would make you think that they'd allow Drizzle + Swift Swim Swords Dance Kingdra were such a thing possible? ^^; And yet that's precisely what Sandstream + Sand Rush Swords Dance Excadrill is.
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07-24-2013, 01:45 PM | #569 |
Problematic Fave
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Let's say I really, really like Kingdra and want it to be the best Pokemon in the world.
EDIT: is anybody else unable to connect to PS? |
07-24-2013, 01:56 PM | #570 |
Insanity
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Yea, Talon had the perfect counter argument. The best counters I can think of is BandLoom, Bulky Landy-T, and SpecsKeldeo before a Swords Dance. Still, pretty broken...
I have no problems getting onto Showdown...
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I fill my lungs with everything You want someone that I can't be You say it's insanity, but I say that's my life Fizzy Bubbles |
07-24-2013, 02:37 PM | #571 | |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Landy-T is easily the best "counter". Kinda like how its a good "counter" to Terrakion. But Jolly Excadrill outspeeds CS Keldeo. DAYUM. And I think you overestimate Excadrill's bulk. You don't need band or specs to get rid of it. But Excadrill definitely deserves to be banned, no question.
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07-24-2013, 02:55 PM | #572 | |
Insanity
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Quote:
Besides that, anyone up for a battle?
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I fill my lungs with everything You want someone that I can't be You say it's insanity, but I say that's my life Fizzy Bubbles |
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07-24-2013, 03:39 PM | #573 | |
Double Dragon
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Quote:
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07-24-2013, 03:43 PM | #574 | |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Quote:
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07-24-2013, 04:24 PM | #575 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Go to PS to play a few Random games.
Server is refusing new battles because of planned server reset. Decide to chat a little bit with people in the lobby because WHY NOT. Say a few typically Talon things. Five minutes later find myself invited to private chatroom with half the mods and admins. ^^;; (Well, there were at the time. Quite a few signed off since then.)
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