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Old 12-03-2019, 06:13 PM   #5076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Median Dia View Post

On a different note, can someone with a bit more hands-on knowledge judge the validity of this summary image?
Spoiler: show
I think it's accurate.

-Dragapult is the best overall Pokemon
-Magic Guard Clefable sucks compared to Hatterene and Grimmsnarl
-Aegislash is only OK
-Tyranitar kind of sucks because he can't punish the Psychics, Ghosts with Pursuit
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:31 PM   #5077
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I lost to a guy who spammed Choice Specs/Band on everything, with a Scarf Ditto. Even though I had a Scarf Dragapult, I couldn't get a free switch to put it in, and I wasn't confident the Dragapult could 2HKO Specs Clefable.

On the other hand, the only reason I did lose was because of an unlucky miss from Garmanitan. His Grimmsnarl was able to switch in safely because of that, and both KO Garmanitan and Dracovish.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:10 AM   #5078
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I'm at 35 games with a 26-9 record. Only about 3 of those games would I have felt I misplayed hard and could have won with better judgment. My GXE is 73.1%.

How the fudge are you supposed to get to 81%? That mandates like near perfect play. Yet I see a bunch of people with 85%+?

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Old 12-04-2019, 03:58 PM   #5079
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damn dude. I have many GXEs, none of which are that high. My highest is 46%
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Old 12-07-2019, 02:14 AM   #5080
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I think it's dumb that Strength Sap regains 20% HP from a burned, -5 Toxapex and said Toxapex can't kill the poisoned Jellicent in return with Struggle.

WTF?

The only way that's possible is Strength Sap ignores burns. Because while I can imagine a -5, burned Toxapex doing almost nothing with Struggle, why the fudge can Strength Sap do enough to prevent death by poison?
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:39 PM   #5081
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Usage stats for SwSh so far:

Code:
 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1    | Dragapult          | 34.77819% | 921374 | 35.663% | 660270 | 34.170% |
| 2    | Darmanitan-Galar   | 34.63651% | 845528 | 32.727% | 639910 | 33.117% |
| 3    | Ditto              | 33.01591% | 485493 | 18.792% | 324063 | 16.771% |
| 4    | Excadrill          | 32.75617% | 647707 | 25.070% | 503401 | 26.052% |
| 5    | Corviknight        | 32.13087% | 624516 | 24.173% | 464274 | 24.027% |
| 6    | Ferrothorn         | 28.40382% | 601620 | 23.286% | 499486 | 25.849% |
| 7    | Rotom-Wash         | 19.51660% | 346122 | 13.397% | 286766 | 14.841% |
| 8    | Gyarados           | 18.54957% | 386563 | 14.962% | 271719 | 14.062% |
| 9    | Hydreigon          | 17.63615% | 282357 | 10.929% | 212233 | 10.984% |
| 10   | Toxapex            | 17.42956% | 333812 | 12.921% | 262702 | 13.595% |
| 11   | Aegislash          | 15.62743% | 332485 | 12.869% | 241280 | 12.487% |
| 12   | Hatterene          | 15.49125% | 318647 | 12.334% | 238932 | 12.365% |
| 13   | Clefable           | 15.28517% | 162871 |  6.304% | 125676 |  6.504% |
| 14   | Grimmsnarl         | 13.80130% | 396861 | 15.361% | 297956 | 15.420% |
| 15   | Cinderace          | 13.63177% | 405609 | 15.700% | 304119 | 15.739% |
| 16   | Seismitoad         | 13.20005% | 162603 |  6.294% | 134726 |  6.972% |
| 17   | Corsola-Galar      | 12.69631% | 388387 | 15.033% | 311135 | 16.102% |
| 18   | Dracovish          | 12.43686% | 287527 | 11.129% | 218752 | 11.321% |
| 19   | Tyranitar          |  9.94552% | 210848 |  8.161% | 166683 |  8.626% |
| 20   | Mandibuzz          |  9.42030% | 115892 |  4.486% | 88759  |  4.593% |
| 21   | Toxtricity         |  9.22502% | 290826 | 11.257% | 205602 | 10.640% |
| 22   | Pelipper           |  7.76577% | 198975 |  7.702% | 178933 |  9.260% |
| 23   | Barraskewda        |  7.05556% | 251096 |  9.719% | 173026 |  8.954% |
| 24   | Conkeldurr         |  6.58137% | 140911 |  5.454% | 107156 |  5.546% |
| 25   | Hawlucha           |  6.27095% | 154211 |  5.969% | 105540 |  5.462% |
| 26   | Rotom-Heat         |  5.75952% | 87298  |  3.379% | 71794  |  3.715% |
| 27   | Dracozolt          |  5.66516% | 143643 |  5.560% | 105355 |  5.452% |
| 28   | Mimikyu            |  5.54591% | 97463  |  3.772% | 69012  |  3.572% |
| 29   | Dugtrio            |  5.43636% | 101633 |  3.934% | 77751  |  4.024% |
| 30   | Bisharp            |  5.33964% | 85092  |  3.294% | 61439  |  3.180% |
| 31   | Togekiss           |  5.29094% | 113864 |  4.407% | 84388  |  4.367% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
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Old 12-08-2019, 01:32 AM   #5082
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I've seen Obstagoon more commonly than Grimmsnarl. Otherwise looks about right.

Bisharp is honestly the scariest threat on that last.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:13 AM   #5083
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I don't see Centiskorch anywhere on that list
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:29 PM   #5084
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Probably because rocking a double weakness to Stealth Rock isn't all that great, especially when you're outsped by most things.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:43 PM   #5085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdragons_in_atrenchcoat View Post
I don't see Centiskorch anywhere on that list
That's because it's not good.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:15 PM   #5086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
That's because it's not good.
Absolute, undying, unimaginable rage. You fiend. You dare insult my child.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:19 PM   #5087
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Look, man, my most favorites are hot garbage on the competitive scene as well. You just gotta deal with it and make do.

Centiskorch in particular suffers from a lot of the same problems volcarona did before it (losing half your health to Stealth Rocks is attrocious, and using the Heavy Duty Boots means that your held item slot can't be used for anything else), without the Speed+Quiver Dance combo the moth had to try and skirt around the issue. As far as the metagame is concerned, Emi's statement is valid.

...I should probably try playing in some lower metas than OU, now that I think about it...
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:50 PM   #5088
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I don't even use Stealth Rock anymore. The only hazard I have is Leech Seed.

When you look at those usage stats, the only Pokemon that are affected by grounded hazards in a meaningful way are Dragapult and Darmanitan. Everything else is Steel, flies, is a Poison-type, has Magic Guard/Magic Bounce.

Then there's Cinderace.

There's too much risk stacking hazards right now.
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:03 PM   #5089
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tbh I think the threat of SR has defined the meta to a point where SR itself is mostly irrelevant but the threat of it still barricades the tier for some mons.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:09 PM   #5090
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People still prioritize Stealth Rock, but I think that's a mistake/waste of time. Like I commonly see players use Clefable or Seismitoad to drop Stealth Rock on Toxapex and Ferrothorn, because they think those Pokemon aren't offensive threats, but then I switch to Darmanitan and there goes their Clefable/Seismitoad. Without Seismitoad and Dragapult, Dracovish disembowels teams.

I'll say this, there currently isn't a good special wall to stop Dragpault. Specs Ghost, Electric, and Fire coverage hit all of Corpsola, Ferrothorn, and Toxapex. Chansey would be really good right now.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:10 PM   #5091
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It's less that stealth rock exists in the meta right now and more that a pokemon stops being good if it has a readily available counter. In the case of Centiskorch (and charizard, and volcarona, and moltres, and most fire, bug, ice, and flying types), the counterpick is especially egregious because the counter doesn't even need to actually attack it but can just click a button at the beginning of combat that says "You may not use Volca until you have dealt with this." It is criminally easy to deal with a Centiskorch that has clawed its way into OU usage. You give up almost nothing to put Stealth Rock onto your defensive pivot mon like Ferrothorn, but the Centiskorch picker HAS to run defog and rapid spin and all sorts of strategic bullshit just to put their mediocre Timmy pick onto the field.

As seen with Volcarona meta, counters (even hazard counters) can be and are played around. But if something is handled by a single move that can be used before you even send that something out? People generally aren't going to try very hard to make it work.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:03 AM   #5092
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omg, Glalie got Moody banned from OU again.

Freaking Glalie. What the fudge?
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:56 PM   #5093
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I’m late but @those usage stats:

Do we think that Dragapult and Garmanitan are actually that good or are people just wanting to use Gen 8’s shiny new toys?
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Old 12-10-2019, 03:18 PM   #5094
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Garmanitan yes, Dragapult probably a lil less so
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Old 12-10-2019, 05:04 PM   #5095
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I'll take the contrary on that. I think Dragapult is underrated relative to its usage, while Garm is overrated.

Scarf Garm hits incredibly hard for a scarfer but like Scarf Dracovish it is an anti-HO tool. It misses important KOs against defensive mons like Clefable, Ferrothorn, and Hatterene that force awkward switches.

+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 171-202 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

versus

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 280-331 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So what are you trying to outspeed with Base 95 speed?

Dragapult
Rotom-W/Rotom-H (scarf)
Dracovish/Dracozolt (scarf)
Dugtrio
Cinderance
Gengar
Hydreigon
Mimikyu

Look at this list of targets. Dugtrio is almost always sash, Mimikyu has Disguise, the Rotoms resist most of Darmanitan's moves.

Scarf Darmanitan is quite literally "overused", especially compared to band which (at worst) is a 2HKO against anything slower than Base 95, meaning if you switch it in safely against something slower, you're almost guaranteed to kill something.

By comparison, Scarf Dragapult is even better at cleaning and anti-HO, as Draco Meteor/Fire Blast is a clean kill on other common scarfers like Hydreigon and Darmanitan, and Infiltrator makes it an emergency button for common sub spammers like Corviknight, Hydreigon, and Gengar.

There's really no other answer to sub/NP/DD abusers because even though Pex can Haze them, she can't break their subs and is otherwise useless at stalling them. Dragapult is really the only answer to a NP Hydreigon with Dark Pulse and Flash Cannon.

Bulk Up, Roost, Brave Bird and Substitute Corviknight is also a huge pain. Darmanitan is a bad check because it gets OHKO by Brave Bird when it breaks the sub. Clefable and Hatterene take significant damage trying to hit Corviknight with fire-type moves. Neither Ferrothorn or Toxapex can Corviknight behind the sub and they get Pressure stalled.

So yeah. I think Dragapult is absolutely worthy of the #1 slot right now. People are dumping on the scarf set too when it's insanely stupid and forces you to run something like Bisharp to deal with it.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:34 PM   #5096
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Why would I run Defog or Rapid Spin when I could just, like, not use Centi during any match with a Stealth Rock? I'll just put in one of my other 'mons, Sandaconda and Drednaw have rock resistance.
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:05 AM   #5097
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Because Stealth Rock is basically a staple for most OU teams, and hell probably more than a few in lower tiers.
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Old 12-12-2019, 04:28 AM   #5098
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Only one of those Pokemon have Rock resistance
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Old 12-12-2019, 04:44 AM   #5099
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I don't see how to get 81% GXE without cheating. The higher you go, the more you lose matches to HAX like Pyro Ball or Flamethrower burning Dracovish or Ferrothorn.

Draco Meteor misses, Pyro Ball/Flamethrower burns, it's ridiculous. The closest I came was either 78.6% or 79.4%, and that was with a 21-1 record. That isn't sustainable!

It's also tougher now that everyone figured out how to cheese Dracovish. I'd hoped that information wouldn't disseminate so quickly, but it did.
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