UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Video Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-28-2012, 11:02 AM   #1
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney


Looks like we lost our original thread for the first game. Placeholder post. (If I never update this and someone else wants to, feel free to PM your post body suggestion to someone who can edit this post. No problem.)

EDIT: This thread for the discussion of the first Phoenix Wright game only. We have separate threads on UPN for most of the other games in the series. Here are the links to them for your ease:
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice for All (Game 2)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations (Game 3)
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (Game 4)
Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright (Game ??)

Last edited by Talon87; 09-29-2012 at 10:38 PM.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #2
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
DaisyInari has been playing through the Ace Attorney games diligently over the past few months and has made her way into the early middle of Game 3. And both Daisy and Loki have recently watched the live-action Phoenix Wright movie. These things spurred me on to do something I'd wanted to do for a while: replay the Phoenix Wright games. A, to freshen up my memory on them in a way far superior to just reading Wiki articles. B, to relive the enjoyable experience.

So here I am, a third or so of the way into Case 3 of the game, and it's just as good as I remembered. It's very interesting to come back to the series' roots and see what all is the same as what we see later on and what all is different. The two most noticeable differences have been the absence of Psyche Locks and the courtroom's five-strikes system instead of the green health bar. I haven't gotten a strike yet (thankfully! ) and I actually don't mind Psyche Locks as much as most of the fandom seems to so it's not like these changes affect me all that much. They're just very noticeable.

What surprises me most isn't what isn't here but instead what already is here. Hidden courtroom clues or modifications to evidence which show up via pressing the witness is one thing. I always press the witness on every single text bubble (except in cases where you can get penalized for doing that ... and even then I tend to save my game first and still do it anyway just to see the text ) 'cause I'm obsessive like that. But it still surprises me that even as far back as the very first game they had important evidence clues hidden away in the seemingly optional Press system. I would've thought that that didn't happen until Game 2 at the soonest and that in the first game you could've, if you knew what to do, just skip right ahead to the text block which contains a contradiction and present the corresponding piece of evidence. But I guess not! Interesting. Another thing which is core to the Phoenix Wright franchise and which surprised me to see show up here in the first installment were several of the characters' various trademark habits or traits. For instance, Gumshoe's stereotypical precinct jargon laden with words like "pal" is one thing ... but for the game to already have broken the fourth wall in Case 3 by having Maya call him "pal" and then Gumshoe freak and say "Hey, you can't do that, pallie! Calling people 'pal' is my endearing character trait!" just really surprised me. It reminds me why this series was such a hit right from the very beginning, why a sequel was all but inevitable and why the franchise continues to go strong (imo) six games on. Fun, quirky, witty comedy writing left and right. It's just a very fun series that is always bringing a smile to your face, inwardly or outwardly, in so many different ways. Finally, a third thing which surprised me was just how high stakes the cases were even as early as Game 1 Case 2. Like, everyone remembers ...

(spoilers for Game 2 Case 4)
Spoiler: show
... how the big shocker + ethical dilemma for Phoenix in Game 2 was having to defend his very first guilty client.

And everyone remembers ...

(spoilers for Game 1 Case 5)
Spoiler: show
... how the Chief of Police was the bad guy ...

But like, I completely forgot that in Case 2 of Game 1 such major things happened as ...

(spoilers for Game 1 Case 2)
Spoiler: show
... Maya being arrested and tried for murder, Phoenix being arrested and tried for murder, and Phoenix going up against a man who held the prosecutor's office, the judge, and politicians in the palm of his hand.

It was really quite amazing to me to see Phoenix come up against such a powerful foe so early on in the series. I suppose this is why I, and so many other fans, fell so in love with this series right from the start. "If the second case in the game is this good, imagine how good what they're saving for last must be! "

Anyway, I'll be sure to update you as I continue to play back through PW1. Anyone who wants to discuss any of the cases, please feel free to. Just be sure to be respectful of others and please place things which constitute spoilers in appropriately-labeled spoiler tags. I would like this thread to be useful for any future members who might never have played the series before and want to check in here and read what others had to say about the cases they themselves have only just beaten. (Like, say he beats Case 3 and wants to read our thoughts on Case 3. I don't want him spoiled on Cases 4 or 5.)
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #3
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
This might sound horrible, but I'll tell you anyway.

I cannot think of the game anymore without Pitbull's "Hotel Room Service" ringing in my head. Why? Game 1, Case 1. If you have played it or seen the characters, you'll know exactly why my brain drew such a strong link between those two things. x.x
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 02:15 PM   #4
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
I've never heard of that before and can't load the video right now ... but are you sure you meant Case 1 and not Case 2? Case 2's the one with the hotel.

Figured I'd share some quotes here as I play back through. Won't be more than a small handful though. I'd have to put the game down every three screens if I tried to list them exhaustively!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
No, this isn't a bad dream, Your Honor. Witness the power of the Oldbag ...
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 02:16 PM   #5
deoxys
(づ-̩̩̩-̩̩̩_-̩̩̩-̩̩̩)づ
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A Place Further than the Universe
Posts: 6,505
I saw the movie about two weeks ago as well, I really loved it. I had a few problems with it in terms of story progression, but otherwise I think it may have been one of the best video game movies ever made.
__________________





MAL (updated frequently) - Fizzy Bubbles - tumblr

avatar credit: neverthrive


deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #6
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I've never heard of that before and can't load the video right now ... but are you sure you meant Case 1 and not Case 2? Case 2's the one with the hotel.
Oh right. Case 2. I keep forgetting the "obligatory instructional case" with all other Ace Attorneys except Apollo Justice.

I've only seen the trailer of the movie, but it looks AWESOME. Tried finding the Takarazuka Musical as well, but there are only some clips on Youtube, haven't found the full performance.

BORKED

Yes. Edgeworth now sings and dances. He is that fabulous amazing.
__________________

Last edited by kaisap112; 09-28-2012 at 02:35 PM.
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 07:34 PM   #7
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
Completed Case 3 with only one hiccup.

Spoiler: show
Thought surely Dee had a motive but I guess not. Not only that but guess I completely forgot that Hammer was trying to kill her! Figured the whole time that his reason for approaching her in costume as the Steel Samurai wasn't to frame his coworker but to persuade Dee he deserved a shot at being the star. Whoops. ^^;

As much as I enjoyed the case overall, I think it had one of the most unsatisfying endings out of any PW case. Dee's reasons for covering up Hammer's manslaughter of Manuel were murky at best. The flashback scene seems to suggest that, if she is the one begging him not to die, she loved him? So maybe she somehow (uhhhhhhhhhh...) on the fly concocted this blackmail plot to make her lover's killer's life a living Hell? Aside from that though we never saw any reason why the studio would have risked total liquidation (actors boycotts, public boycotts, you name it!) should word of their cover-up have ever gotten out. What was to keep someone like Oldbag from squealing? No actor, not even Hammer at the peak of his career, is worth that sort of risk. And it's not like he murdered the guy either! It was the most innocent of manslaughters! No judge would've given him anything more than the lightest sentence possible.

Overall it was a good case. Now on to Case 4!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maya
What are you getting me for Christmas, Nick?
I'm not going to read into this too deeply but it is still interesting given the nature of Christmas in Japan and the fact that Maya's known Phoenix at this point for approximately three months (which imo isn't long enough to reciprocally feel like family but is long enough to y'know).
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 03:33 PM   #8
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
I just completed Case 4. Wow, what a case! Not the greatest in the series history -- a credit to Takumi Shuu and the other creative minds on the team at Capcom who worked to bring us even more exciting cases in each successive sequel -- but it definitely serves as one of the most memorable and important in the franchise. This is the case where we learn about Edgeworth's past, Phoenix's reasons for becoming a lawyer, ~all of the unknown details about the DL-6 case, why Edgeworth became a prosecutor, and then some. There were some things I'm pretty sure I had forgotten about over the years but remembered the moment I saw the characters pop up. And there were other things that I 100% forgot all about. More in the spoiler box below.

Spoiler: show
I completely forgot about Gourdy. I also completely forgot about Polly the parrot. I didn't remember Yanni Yogi at first but the moment I saw the boat shack for the first time it came back to me -- both that this was associated with the bizarre old man in the cap and rags and that he was faking being crazy and was in fact the man who was trapped in the elevator with the Edgeworths. However, I did completely forget about his innocence. ^^; I thought von Karma had put Yanni up to the task of offing Gregory Edgeworth for him. I totally forgot that Yanni was in fact 100% innocent of any wrongdoing and that von Karma pulled the trigger himself when the elevator trio were all unconscious.

But of course there are some details you just cannot forget. Like ...

Spoiler: show
The fact that von Karma is behind it all. Or that this was the first case with Lotta Hart. Or the part where Phoenix confronts von Karma in the Records Office like an idiot and gets himself and poor Maya tasered and their crucial evidence stolen by a cornered von Karma.

So I was pleased to discover that even though I remembered these details it was still great fun playing back through. Admittedly, it's been roughly 5˝ years since I first (and last!) played this game circa Christmas 2006, so I definitely have time on my side with making this replay super enjoyable as opposed to a chore. I can't promise it'd have been as fun to play back through had I tried to do it, say, only one or two months after completing it. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would not have been. Does that mean I'll put Phoenix Wright back into storage for another five years before picking it up again? Hard to say. Five years may have been a little too long. But two or so years? That I could see.

I could press on to the bonus case (Case 5) at this point ... but instead I think I'll go ahead and check out the live-action movie first. Might me enjoyment of that be diminished for the very same reasons I suggested it'd be a bad idea to replay PW1 so soon after beating it the last time? Sure. But it was a risk I was willing to take since I was adamant about rediscovering the magic of the game via the game itself rather than a cheesy 2-to-3-hour cinema adaptation. Daisy and Loki really seemed to enjoy it though so I am cautiously optimistic about it. Not sure how they plan to cover all of Case 4 in just two hours but I guess it could be done. We'll see!
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:11 PM   #9
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
As I'm typing this post I'm watching the new Ace Attorney movie - and here's what I have to say: if you love the games, like yours truly does, you have to see this. No going around it. Go find it, watch it, love it. And wish Phoenix looked a little less like he has horrible diarrhea when he's at a loss for words in court.
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:16 PM   #10
DaisyInari
Nice neck u got there
 
DaisyInari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waiting to be invited in
Posts: 2,271
Send a message via MSN to DaisyInari
Altaria

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisap112 View Post
And wish Phoenix looked a little less like he has horrible diarrhea when he's at a loss for words in court.
Ahaha, looks like you and Loki share the same sentiment~

*hi-fives for movie loving*
__________________

Hi, I'm Daisy!

Spoiler: show
W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

~Fizzy Bubbles~


Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


Credit to TheKnightsFury for the sprite!

Fear my abnormally large signature~

Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
DaisyInari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:36 PM   #11
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaisyInari View Post
Ahaha, looks like you and Loki share the same sentiment~

*hi-fives for movie loving*
Although I have to admit, while I was playing the game, I probably had the exact same expression on my face at the toughest witness testimonies.
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:09 PM   #12
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
With half an hour to go, here are my initial / main thoughts on the live-action Phoenix Wright movie. I'll provide concluding thoughts in a second post.



If you have not played the games before, do not I repeat do NOT use this movie as a substitute for them!

If I had to say one thing about this movie it would be that. While the director, actors, and writers may have each tried their best to make a Phoenix Wright film based on the game, what they've produced is a botched nightmare of confusing plot details, omissions, and just an all-around mega-inferior product to the actual games. This movie is actually worse to Phoenix Wright than the Unlimited Blade Works movie was to the Unlimited Blade Works of the FSN visual novel. And while I've never seen M. Night Shyamalan's The Last Airbender myself, I have to say that I don't think this movie is too far off that film's mark as far as the whole condensing things approach goes. I also don't think this movie is overall as bad as that film. I'm merely stating that this movie cuts out a lot of material from the court cases it attempts to cover.

But even if we ignore all of the things which the film omits -- after all, you say, it's not fair to criticize a 2-hour film for omitting so much from a 12-hour video game! -- there's still a lot stuff that this film keeps but changes. That's the #2 thing I'd say about this film. It keeps things from the game yet changes them into something new. Here follows an obviously spoilerific list of just some of the things the movie changes:

Spoiler: show
In the film, Maya is a detached cheerleader in the courtroom audience. In the games, she's right by Phoenix's side and serves as his aide in court. Point: Game

In the film, Edgeworth suggests that Maya be held in contempt of court for speaking out of order. In the game, Maya herself suggests this. Point: Game

In the film, there's a crazy mechanical spiderleg chandelier thing which produces monitors that show all the courtroom evidence. This is pretty ridiculous considering the games only ever meant for their evidence to be treated just like it would be in an actual court of law where the very same sorts of evidence -- bullets, guns, videos, photographs, and eyewitness testimonies -- are presented to the judge no problemo.

The film changes whose lunch money was stolen when the boys were in the 4th Grade. In the movie, it's some no-name kid the Japanese call Terada. In the game, it's Edgeworth whose lunch money was stolen. Point: Game

In the film, Mia Fey is interested to know the truth behind DL-6. In the game, Mia is only interested in DL-6 insofar as it relates to her mother and Redd White.

In the film, Redd White looks like a Severus Snape reject. In the game, he looked like someone you could actually believe was very arrogant and wealthy.

In the film, after court lets out the day Maya was held in contempt, she greets Phoenix from a set of stairs inside the court house. In the game, Phoenix has to go to the detention center to pick her up. Point: Game

In the film, the boat rental shack looks like an abandoned ghost house in a bog. In the game, it looks like an actual boat rental shack. Point: Game

In the film, Larry has the metal detector. In the game, Phoenix gets it from Gumshoe.

In the film, Larry uses the metal detector to find his own air compressor. In the game, Phoenix finds it.

In the film, the first time Phoenix ever sees Yanni Yogi is in court. In the game, he first meets him in his boat rental shack at Gourd Lake.

In the film, Edgeworth speaks up a number of times during the court proceedings to voice objections or to pass along suggestions to Phoenix. In the game, Edgeworth is silently watching in the wings. Point: Game

In the film, Hammond's time of death is 11:30pm. In the game, it's 11:50pm.

In the film, Lotta's camera will take a picture provided it picks up any loud noise. In the game, it's specifically set up to only take snapshots if a gun-like noise is detected. Point: Game

In the film, Phoenix and Maya find the letter von Karma sent to Yanni Yogi just sitting out in Yogi's shack. In the game, they have to open the lockbox using the password 1228. Point: Game

In the film, von Karma is waiting for them inside Yogi's shack and tasers them from behind, snatching up the letter and escaping before they come to. In the game, von Karma is in the Records Room at the police department trying to hide evidence from DL-6 when Phoenix shows up, brandishes the letter in von Karma's face, and thus leaves von Karma no choice but to taser him and take the letter. Point: Game ... although it's stupid the game makes the player do this. But it's even MORE stupid to imply this old man was just waiting for them in an abandoned shack in a bog on a lake!

In the film, Yanni Yogi, Gregory Edgeworth, and Miles Edgeworth were in the Records Room of the police department. In the game, they were in an elevator in the courtroom when an earthquake cut power to the building. Point: Game for the reason you'll see next!

In the film, Gregory Edgeworth is a bad guy who is trying to hide or destroy courtroom evidence. In the game, Gregory is a hero and supposedly one of the best defense attorneys the country has ever had. Point: GAME!

In the film, Miles Edgeworth's reason for wanting to become a prosecutor is because he saw what a villain his father was and swore he'd never become like him. In the game, Miles worshiped his father and the only reason he became a prosecutor instead of a defense attorney was specifically because he was so disgusted in the courts for agreeing with Hammond's defense of Yanni Yogi and letting Yogi go. Point: Game

In the film, Polly is Yogi's wife. In the game, she is his fiancée. Point: Film

In the film, Mia found the plastic baggie containing the bullet that had killed Gregory Edgeworth. In the game, Maya had found it and it ended up becoming Phoenix's proof to Maya that she was not worthless. Point: Game (Especially since Movie Maya ends up being kinda worthless. >_> Her deliberate plan to get herself held in contempt of court becomes Edgeworth's plan instead; and her getting the crucial, case-winning piece of evidence against von Karma is passed to her hot sister. Way to go, writers Way to go.)

In the film, the human-sized Blue Badger shows up a lot. He even puts a paw out to prevent the judge from rendering a verdict one time! In the game, there is no human-sized Blue Badger yet.

In the film, Edgeworth is the one who suggests fingerprinting Yogi. In the game, Phoenix is the one and (as mentioned previously) Edgeworth never speaks up. Point: Game

In the film, the three things Polly the Parrot recites are all numbers: 1102 (human Polly's month and day of birth), 0912 (human Polly's month and day of getting married), and 0602 (human Polly's month and day of dying). In the game, the three things Polly the Parrot recites are 1228 (the month and day of DL-6), her name, and "Never forget DL-6!" Point: Game simply because the game's ones feel more like things Yogi would've said out loud and the parrot would've committed to memory

In the film, it's really nicely explained why Yogi wanted revenge against Hammond despite the fact that Hammond got him acquitted. In the game, it's also explained but imo the movie did it much better. Point: Film

As you can see from this partial list, a) there are a SHIT TON of changes to the game even for those elements they did keep in the film and b) the game typically does them better or else the changes have no real impact one way or another. Only the ones I labeled in green represent changes where I feel the movie actually did a better job than the game. Anything unlabeled is "Why the heck did you change this? " and anything labeled red is "Why the heck did you change this when what you've changed it to is clearly worse than what the game had?"

Now, having said all of these negative things, what are the film's positives? Surprisingly, the acting for starters. While there is a bunch of hammy acting from many of the supporting characters, I actually really quite like Phoenix's actor's acting in this film. I've gone on record before numerous times saying I don't care for this actor's work usually. And indeed I don't. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen him in Japanese television or cinema and felt he did a great job. But I'm pleased to add this film to the list. He does a very good job, even if he's not quite how I picture Phoenix to be ^^; , and I say three cheers to him. The guy who plays Manfred von Karma earns similar praise: not how I personally picture von Karma but also not bad. He strikes me much more as a stereotypical Japanese yakuza boss or bank CEO than a prosecutor who feels like a devil in the skin of a man but putting that to the side the actor does a fine job. Larry's actor is a tad silly and over the top but surprisingly he comes quite close to how silly and over the top the Butz really is in the games. I was a little less satisfied with Edgeworth, the judge, and Maya's actors but they all did fine jobs too, the sort of jobs which going into this film I was expecting were as good as I could hope for things to get. Instead I got Phoenix, von Karma, and even Larry pleasantly surprising me. So good job, guys.

Are there any other positives for the film? Well, it looks pretty, how about that? ^^; There was a lot of on-site filming for the Gourd Lake scenes and they even went the extra mile and had a life-size replica of the Steel Samurai balloon of Larry's made for the film. Very nice. There's a lot of questionable lighting changes the film makes -- whereas the games feel very real and friendly with locations, the film often times foregoes reality for the feeling one gets out of a haunted house and thus foregoes friendly feelings for more ominous ones. The detention center looks like a prison in the film and the offices of Fey and Wright look like a dark and stormy night death trap rather than an office that one could really find in real life. Still, even if I think these changes questionable, I admit they are at least visually stunning. So that's a plus, no?

I've still got half an hour to go but from where I am so far I'd give the Phoenix Wright film a grade of C+. It's not a failure but it's too bogged down by the A+ game's shoes it's so desperately trying to fill; and as a result of trying to strike out on its own and say "Hey! We're creative! We can do things too!" it makes a whole bunch of unnecessary changes, many of them bad, that keep me from giving it a B ranking. Might these feelings change in the final half an hour? We'll have to see!

Oh yeah, one last thing: in the film, Maya randomly knows how to play piano and decides to play it on Day 3. What the hell. Point: Game! Just because this was a silly-stupid thing to randomly introduce, even if piano playing is awesome! *sigh*
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:40 PM   #13
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Wall Of Text
You never fail to show up with a Wall Of Text if there is even a hint of me liking something, do you? >.>

Care to also make a post about the Takarazuka Ace Attorney Musicals? The plots aren't the same as the ones in the games, but my lord, the characters singing and dancing? They never did that in the games! What a grave sin!

Seriously though. Is artistic license always such a horrible thing?

This movie is still, so far, the best movie adaption of a video game I've seen that hasn't gone its separate way from the original material. Silent Hill did a good job, but it's a far cry from the original games - plotwise.
__________________

Last edited by kaisap112; 09-29-2012 at 08:42 PM.
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:57 PM   #14
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisap112 View Post
Seriously though. Is artistic license always such a horrible thing?
Typically, I don't care for artistic license, no. And you'd better be God's gift to the art world when you're trying to invoke artistic license for changes made to an A-rank game like Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. That's something which I don't think applies here: the writers are not God's gift to the art world and what they produce is a passable adaptation of the source material. Passable. As in, not as good as but still okay. It's not like this movie is Samurai Shodown or something. It's not bad. But ... well, back to your question, no: I, Talon87, normally do not like changes made to source material in the name of artistic license. So there's that.

Now, on to your next point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisap112 View Post
This movie is still, so far, the best movie adaption of a video game I've seen that hasn't gone its separate way from the original material.
I think this is where we disagree. You say it hasn't gone its separate way from the original material because the core plot is still the same.

Spoilers for the very start of Game 1 Case 4
Spoiler: show
"Edgeworth is on trial, Phoenix defends him, and the guilty party is _____. DL-6 comes up a bunch too." So yeah, it's the same core story. But the thing is, I want you to imagine this for me if you will.

Take Lord of the Rings ...

... and change Frodo to a female collie ...

... and Sam to a male basset hound ...

... and Pippin to a peregrine falcon ...

... but leave Merry as a Hobbit.

Now make Gandalf a woman ...

... and make Saruman's motive for going bad, hmm, I dunno, he wants to seduce Gandalf and make her his wife?

Make it so that the Fellowship goes to Minas Tirith first ...

... and then goes to Rohan second ...

... before going to Rivendell third ...

... and it's not Elrond who proposes they cast the One Ring back into the fires of Mt. Doom, oh no! It's actually Sam the basset hound! Woof woof!

You get my point. The core story would still be the same but when you change too many seemingly superficial details it ends up producing what feels like such a different story that people like myself take issue with it when you say "They didn't go their separate way from the source material." Oh, but I think they did! I think they did. They took a lot of liberties with the source material. Movie Maya is pretty worthless. Movie Edgeworth is more outspoken. Movie von Karma doesn't object all that much. Movie Blue Badger is ... there? ^^; But the biggest change of all, and an unacceptable one imo, is

Spoilers for the final third of the film and the final third or so of Game 1 Case 4:
Spoiler: show
the change they make to Gregory Edgeworth. Having him be a villain who tries to hide or destroy court evidence is terrible. And likewise having Edgeworth's reason for growing up to become a prosecutor be that he wanted to become the opposite of his bastard father is a significant departure from the game Edgeworth's motivation to never allow other boys to go through the same thing he had to go through 15 years ago when his own father's murderer was let go.

So yeah. I'd say they made a different story than what's in the games. ^^; Now, is it worse? That's for you to decide. And have other movies been even worse about this? Why, of course! Super Mario Bros., Street Fighter, Dead or Alive, Tomb Raider, need I go on? By all means I'd agree with you that Phoenix Wright is a paragon amongst video game live-action adaptations. But I'd still say it went off the charted path quite a lot. And I'd also still say that it's definitely inferior to watch this movie than it is to play the game. If somebody's logic is "I'd rather not touch Phoenix Wright at all than sit down and play the game for 12 hours," well, then I don't know what to say as that's quite the moral dilemma. But if someone is willing to check out the game, then I absolutely do not think they should watch the movie first. The movie should be enjoyed second as something you can say "WOW! Look at my friends in LIVE ACTION! " to.

Last edited by Talon87; 09-29-2012 at 09:02 PM. Reason: spoiler tagging most of the post body for people who are playing the game for the first time
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 10:30 PM   #15
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87

Okay, just finished the movie and ... the best part was definitely those final thirty minutes. von Karma actually ended up kinda disappointing me with his final bit in the movie ^^; but Phoenix was trčs incroyable, both the actor (*whistles*) and the character. What really sold me on the final bit though I think was the pacing: whereas for most of the movie they cut out so much and were going at breakneck speed, here was the one part of the game where they only cut out 10-15% of stuff and they were going at only slightly faster than an ideal speed. Both of these changes were welcome and resulted in me really quite enjoying the final stretch of the film much more than I did the first bit.

It was ... shall we say "interesting" to see how the movie tied things up versus how the game did it. Like so much of the rest of the movie, much the same and yet oh so different. More discussion inside the spoiler box.

Spoiler: show

So it turns out that Gregory Edgeworth wasn't a villain after all (yay! ) but Edgeworth still grew up thinking he was (hrmph ). I guess I'm halfway better off than I was before so I'll settle. We find out in the final act that Edgeworth's father was snooping into the Records Room not because he wanted to steal or destroy any evidence but because he was going to borrow the bullet from the case von Karma had just gotten a victory for and he was going to prove that the bullet's markings didn't match up the way von Karma claimed they did in court that day. Basically, he was going to expose von Karma for the cheat he has sometimes been. This is different from the games where Gregory Edgeworth already got von Karma penalized by the chief prosecutor. Even though I just beat the game earlier today I've already forgotten what exactly Gregory got the judge to punish von Karma for ^^; but all that matters is that the deed was already done in court in the game whereas in the film Gregory was preparing to tarnish von Karma's immaculate record when he met his untimely demise.

I wasn't as big a fan of how the movie had Phoenix catch von Karma vs. how the game did it but the movie was still very fun to watch in this regard. Movie von Karma actually had a much better poker face (which made for +1 to realism but -1 to drama/excitement ^^; so it balances out) whenever Phoenix would accuse him of stuff. And Phoenix's acting here was superb. It's clear why they made the changes they made here: the director must have felt that the more cerebral, sleuthy victory of Game Phoenix over Game von Karma wouldn't have made for as good of a scene on camera so he changed things around to include the visually eye-catching statue of Larry Butz just so we could have that scene where it crashes to the ground, shatters, and Phoenix kneels down to examine the pieces.


While I've already criticized the movie plenty for making Maya nothing more than a pretty bit of eyecandy, I admit it was nice to see the goodbye scene at the train station. While the movie version completely lacks all of the emotional punch that the game version has (owing to the fact that we don't give two hoots about Movie Maya whereas Game Maya is a dear and loyal partner), I thought they did a cute job that's sure to make Muyo gnaw at his shirt with having Maya be all "No, Phoenix, I love you , I don't want to go! Please stop me! " and Phoenix being all "I like you too, kiddo, but it's best you go back to Kurain Village for now and train up. Don't worry: I'll come visit soon. " And, just as in the game, none of what I just said happens in words: it's all in the body language. The eyes, the facial expressions, the gestures, all of it.

lol @ the Jamming Ninja showing up there at the end. I guess that was the film's way of indiscretely telling us that we're probably not going to get a second PW movie "BUT MILES' AND PHOENIX'S ADVENTURES LIVE ON! " Was hoping to see Maya back in the courtroom with Phoenix and for little Pearl to show up too but either I missed them or they just weren't there. Oh well. Maybe next time.

Would I watch the movie again? Maybe some day. But yes. I would not not watch it again. It ended up being a bit better than I signed off feeling last post. I think in the end I'd give it a generous B or a critical B-. Still not an A production by any stretch of the imagination, but as kaisap's rightly drawn my attention to, there's just no comparing this to Jean Claude van Damme's and Raul Julia's trainwreck masterpiece Street Fighter.

Would I watch a sequel? Honestly, much as it pains me to admit it, Phoenix's actor's won me over and I think the answer's a mildly enthusiastic yes if only because I want to see him take up the mantle again. You dun good, Hiroki-kun. You dun good. That stated, I'd be concerned that a sequel would cast child actors who act just as poorly *shot* dorkily as the child actors in this movie did. And that would mean taking my favorite character in the franchise and ruining her completely. So maybe it's best they never make a sequel film. ^^; But yes, if they did make it, I'd likely watch it.

Finally, do I take back what I said before about the film being unacceptable as a substitute for the games? No way, Jose. If you're thinking about watching the film, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease play the game first if you haven't already.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 02:20 PM   #16
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Finally, do I take back what I said before about the film being unacceptable as a substitute for the games? No way, Jose. If you're thinking about watching the film, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease play the game first if you haven't already.
I still agree with that. But having played through the games already, I enjoyed watching "someone else" do the brainwork for a bit.
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:14 PM   #17
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Wright
Miss Starr, you are a curious person, aren't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Starr
Sort of like the first person who sucked a cow's nipple to discover milk.
I'm very near the end of the final day of field investigations. Just a few more conversations with Lana (and possibly other people I've forgotten about?) and I expect I'll be moving into the courtroom for the third time. It promises to be a long one with one of the most enormous evidence lists in PW1 history, a trait almost certainly inherited from work on PW2 and PW3 which predated work on this bonus chapter.

I had largely forgotten the details of this case. All I really remembered were things like:

(Spoilers for the end of Case 5 so DON'T CLICK if you don't want to be spoiled!)
Spoiler: show
Damon Gant is the ultimate villain in this case.
Damon Gant is the chief of police.
Damon Gant has dark brown skin, white hair, and a flashy orange suit.
Ema Skye, the forensic science whiz kid, is our assistant in this case in place of Maya Fey.
Ema's older sister, Lana Skye, is the defendant.
There are some crazy human characters here.
This is where the Blue Badger really takes off (from an American perspective, anyway, since we got this case bundled along with our first exposure to PW) with the large mechanical Blue Badger in front of the police department.

And that was pretty much it. I had forgotten things like:

(Spoilers for the end of Case 5 so DON'T CLICK if you don't want to be spoiled!)
Spoiler: show
Lana Skye is the chief prosecutor.
Most of the characters in this case were all related to one another by their involvement with a case from two years ago labeled SL-9.
Joe Darke.
Jake Marshall.
Angel Starr with the possible exception of how she looked. (I can't remember for sure now whether I remembered her look before replaying the case. Bias and all that.)
Neil Marshall.
Mike Meekins is in this case. (And, from an American perspective, this is his debut case.)
This whole thing was a ploy of Damon Gant's to kill at least two birds with one stone: kill off snooping into SL-9 once and for all and also tarnish Edgeworth's name enough to get him to resign or to justify forcing him to resign.
The bizarre pot of Gant's.
The piece of fabric with Ema's handprint on it.

And much more. So like, the case cannot be said to have bored me because I knew it all already: because after five and a half years away from the case, I'd forgotten so much that in many ways it was almost like playing the case for the very first time again.

And yet despite this, there was something which struck me the other day after I was sick and tired of Angel Starr clogging up the witness stand. And when I was struck by this something, I then suddenly remembered that I had felt this exact same way almost six years ago. What is that something? An unpleasant feeling, impossible to satisfactorily rationalize or put into words, that while this case should be one of the all-time greatest it's actually nowhere near that for me. In Game 1 alone I would probably rank the cases something like 4 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 1. The rankings may not be 100% accurate but the point is that I would rank both Cases 3 and 4 ahead of Case 5 in terms of overall entertainment value. One of Case 5's problems is that it frustrates me too much, in ways none of the other Game 1 cases did. Some of these frustrations are quite familiar and brought a smile to my face: 'cause they're inherited from Games 2 and 3, the result of later game design decisions which were absent from Game 1. One example I can cite is time, or how long things go on for. In the first four cases in Game 1, you rarely have to play a guessing game with where to go next. And you even more rarely have to move around all that much during investigation phases. But in Case 5, there is a crapton of guessing where to go next, talking to craptons of people, presenting boatloads of evidence, and backtracking. After a while it can get kinda wearisome, fun as the game otherwise is. ^^; Courtroom segments aren't much better in this regard. While the first four cases' courtroom segments never stretch on for too long, the two segments I've been in for Case 5 each felt like they dragged on FOR-E-VER. By the time Angel Starr was asked to leave the witness stand I'm pretty sure the entirety of Case 4 Courtroom Day 3 played out. ^^; It was that long ... for the first flippin' witness! ^^; I know it *should* be fun -- like I said, I can't rationalize why I dislike this ^^; -- but for some reason being given so much at once and having to mash through it makes the case feel a little more grindy than it should.

The story is another perplexing matter for me. You'd think a story like this one would be amazing. Like, it should be! ^^; You consider who the accused his, who the victim is and why he died, who the ultimate killer is, what the relation of this case is to all the people you run into, and it has all the makings of one heck of an epic case! And yet for some reason, don't ask me to justify it please, I'd rank Case 5's plot below Game 1 Case 4's, Game 2 Case 2's, Game 2 Case 4's, Game 3 Case 1's, Game 3 Case 5's, and the latter half of Game 4 Case 4's.

That stated, Ema Skye is wonderful fun and it's very interesting to see her back when she was quite the clone of Maya. (Oh Apollo Justice Ema, how you've changed! *munch munch munch munch munch munch munch munch munch munch*) Lana Skye is ridiculously gorgeous, one of the prettiest Phoenix Wright characters in the history of the franchise. (Yes, Iris and Rookie Mia, you've got competition.) And best of all DS functional stuff like Luminol and fingerprinting! It's definitely going to suck if/when I move on to replaying PW2 to lose these awesome features for two solid games before seeing them show up again in Apollo Justice. But at least I got to enjoy them here for one case.

Last edited by Talon87; 10-02-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #18
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
Completed the game today. Boy oh boy! I had forgotten the most exciting aspect of Case 5's plot and was mega-shocked by it as it came out. Of course, subconscious memories began to seep forth as it unfolded and I had no trouble figuring out what evidence to produce in order to pursue this line of inquiry.

(MAJOR spoiler for the first half of the final bit of Game 1 Case 5! Click at your own risk!)
Spoiler: show
I had totally forgotten how it was that Damon Gant was blackmailing Lana. I knew he was doing that, but it just totally slipped my mind how he had done it. In my mind, it went something like this:

Layer 1 (falsehood): Joe Darke killed Neil Marshall.
Layer 2 (truth): Damon Gant killed Neil Marshall.

I had completely forgotten that Damon took advantage of the situation to pin it on Ema, thus making the mystery a multi-layered case as follows:

Layer 1: Joe Darke killed Neil Marshall.
Layer 2: Ema Skye accidentally killed Neil Marshall.
Layer 3: Damon Gant purposefully killed Neil Marshall and framed Ema Skye for it.

Forgetting such a major plot twist allowed me to enjoy the final act to this case a lot more than I should have been entitled to as someone who had previously beaten this game. Unfortunately, my memory of the ultimate truth behind the case was unshaken even five and half years later and that made it kinda anti-climactic and very easy for me to prove the ultimate villain's guilt. ... That stated, I actually got my very first ever Game Over (err, "Guilty") towards the end of this case. What happened was ...

(MAJOR spoiler for the first half of the final bit of Game 1 Case 5! Click at your own risk!)
Spoiler: show
I guess I was too smart for my own good (or perhaps subconsciously remembered how things ultimately are meant to play out?) when the judge asked me whether I had any additional evidence to present (referring to the piece of fabric cut from Neil Marshall's vest with Ema's handprint on it). Because I recognized that there was no blood on the cloth (again, not sure if 2012 deduction or subconscious knowledge from 2006) I figured "I should present this because if I don't then we won't be able to gnab Gant. It's okay: even if he tries to peg this on Ema, I can draw their attention to how there's no blood on it and exculpate her." Well, it didn't work. ^^; I presented the cloth, Damon Gant gleefully clapped, the judge frowned at me, and he rendered a guilty verdict for my client right then and there. Instant Game Over. ^^; >_< Turned the DS off, turned it back on, made the opposite choice ... and was flabbergasted when not even five minutes later Phoenix presented the cloth anyway and followed it up with the very thought process I had had regarding how it didn't prove Ema's guilt but rather her innocence.

That honestly is one of my problems with some of the crux moments in later cases in the franchise and is one thing I can praise Game 1 for mostly avoiding: and that is presenting situations where if the player is too smart for his own good he'll be told by the game that he's wrong and that he's instead expected to be a bit dumber, make the wrong choice, and THEN the game tells him "okay now you can make the right choice ". None of the first four cases in the franchise do this thankfully, and while I don't remember when the bad habit first started I do remember that it has since shown up in quite a number of cases. It was unfortunate to see it happen so late in the game (my winning streak ) but meh.

There was another thing I'm surprised I totally forgot about regarding the post-verdict part of the game and it makes me sad actually. ^^;

(MAJOR spoiler for the first half of the final bit of Game 1 Case 5! Click at your own risk!)
Spoiler: show
I totally forgot that Lana admitted in court to helping Damon Gant forge evidence (as well as do other criminal favors for him) over the past two years in a bid to keep his mouth shut regarding what she believed to be her sister's guilt in the death of Neil Marshall. Which is to say, I totally forgot that Lana not only got fired as Chief Prosecutor but was also pretty much disbarred. A real shame. However ...

Apollo Justice spoilers for beginning and end of that game
Spoiler: show
... if Phoenix Wright lost his own license for a similar crime but was then later allowed to resit the bar and get his license back, maybe just maybe Lana Skye could do the same thing if she demonstrated good behavior.

While it's nice to think of Lana getting a second chance to be a prosecutor again, I'll agree that that'd be a bit too rosy of a world. ^^; In the real world, you sure as hell would never trust her with a position like being a prosecutor ever again. In fact, in the real world she'd be lucky to be allowed back into law enforcement period. ^^; Still, it'd be nice if she managed to get her license back.

And with that, I've wrapped up Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney.

Overall, the game definitely holds up and remains one of the very best DS games I've ever played. It's not really a "game" in the traditional sense though: it's pretty much an interactive visual novel, a veritable crossover between Law & Order and anime. Take Law & Order, anime-ify it, and then make it an interactive VN instead of a television show. That's pretty much Phoenix Wright in a nutshell. So while I realize many would challenge whether you can even fairly call it a game, and while I realize that for many more it's probably not their cup of tea, to me it's one of the greatest hits in the DS's rather large library of games. While a few staple characters and game mechanics introduced in the sequels are missing, a surprising amount of the franchise's core elements are present right from the get-go. Great criminal drama, a sense of humor which playfully dances between witty and silly, excellent 2D artwork, a heavy emphasis on pressing all things witnesses say, and much more. I was worried the game might not've held up after six years and 4+ sequels but it's done more than hold up: it's been just as wonderful as I remembered. Would highly recommend it and look forward to playing it again myself in a couple of years.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 06:52 PM   #19
Loki
Yummy
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,071
Okay, about the movie:

Spoiler: show
What was up with the scene where the Judge was about to make his decision and suddenly the Blue Badger came out and stopped him? And then moments later, the suit was empty! Did no one in court notice the giant blue mascot outfit teleported up and did everything all on it's own? I mean.... that shit freaked me out! Like the scene in The Shining with the Furry and the Butler (you know the scene if you saw the movie). It came out of nowhere and just weirds you out. And there was no explanation for it. No one questioned that the suit did it all on it's own. Like... WTF?
__________________
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:44 AM   #20
McSweeney
Soul Badge
 
McSweeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 1,458
Phoenix Wright is pretty annoying to play through, but the humour and such is great. I was also overwhelmed with emotion after the last case in the game (the "real" last case, not the extra one added for the DS version).

Here's a funny story: After playing the first Phoenix Wright game, I wanted to play Justice for All but could not find it ANYWHERE. I told my roommate that if he ever saw it on one of his excursions to buy it for me. Many months passed, with neither of us having any luck. One day he came home and said, "I couldn't find it, but I did find this in the used games section" and presented me with the third game, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations. I thanked him, but was ultimately disappointed since I couldn't even play it until I had played the second game.

HOWEVER!!!!

Upon opening the box, I made a shocking discovery. The used game store had actually made a mistake: they put THE WRONG GAME INTO THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS BOX. And what was that game?

Phoenix Wright: Justice For All.

At that moment I quoted the vaguely British sounding Ash from the first episode of Pokemon and exclaimed, "It's ah lucky daiy!!"
__________________


Smoking Gary sez:
"Stay in school kidz"
McSweeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:47 AM   #21
kaisap112
Volcano Badge
 
kaisap112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsweeney View Post
Upon opening the box, I made a shocking discovery. The used game store had actually made a mistake: they put THE WRONG GAME INTO THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS BOX. And what was that game?

Phoenix Wright: Justice For All.

At that moment I quoted the vaguely British sounding Ash from the first episode of Pokemon and exclaimed, "It's ah lucky daiy!!"
And now you'll spend ages trying to get a real copy of Trials and Tribulations.
__________________
kaisap112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:51 AM   #22
Talon87
Nebby. Back into the bag.
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,496
Send a message via AIM to Talon87
That's pretty funny, Mcsweeney. Though I have to admit it'd drive me nuts to have the wrong box for the game. >_< Also, yeah: did you ever end up getting Trials and Tribulations?
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #23
McSweeney
Soul Badge
 
McSweeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 1,458
I haven't looked that hard yet, but I figure it'll be easier to find, being newer.

Of course I can always find it online but I'm too lazy. I'd rather get it from a store. I've only ordered one game online in my whole life, and that was Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Caliber for N64. Atlus games are notoriously hard to find, and that was one of the worst offenders. I finally ordered it because I was so desperate for my JRPG fix during The Great N64 RPG Drought.

It was pretty exciting seeing people use swear words in a Nintendo game!
__________________


Smoking Gary sez:
"Stay in school kidz"

Last edited by McSweeney; 10-04-2012 at 10:17 AM.
McSweeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Video Games


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.