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Old 02-12-2011, 11:47 AM   #76
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Rin doesn't have a flat chest!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Tohsaka sex scene:
This came completely by surprise. I have snubbed Tohsaka at every single opportunity except the one life-or-death scenario where I chose to surprise her by asking to talk (rather than fleeing for my life) when she sinisterly approached me at school that one time. But I wouldn't think that this would be enough for Shirou to be having sex dreams about Tohsaka of all people!

The other thing which was really surprising about this scene for me was that it was the first sex scene which I would say was at least kinda erotic. On a scale of -10 to 10, mind you, this only ranks a 2. It wasn't very erotic. It still suffered heavily from Nasu's terrible sex scene narrative. But a clothed Tohsaka hides her flat chest pretty well. She looks better with her hair done up. In fact, with nearly all of her clothes on, she doesn't look nearly as anorexic and gangly-looking as she does in her proper sex scenes in UBW: this in my book is a major plus. But I suppose the best thing about this sex scene was that there was no awkwardness on the part of either party. Whether because it was a dream or what, I don't know, Shirou didn't seem the least bit embarrassed or (even worse) Harry Potter 6 "Harry let the lion in his chest roar with delight" ridiculously giddy. He just seemed like a normal dude who was enjoying the moment. On the flipside we had Tohsaka who, for her part, was a standard bitch-in-heat character: which was a really appreciated erotic step-up from the "ow, Shirou, it hurts! But I'll bear it because it still feels good" masochism from other sex scenes in the game. No pain. No humiliation. No tsundere moments. Just she wanted him, he wanted her. It worked, if weakly. (Like I said: only a 2 on the -10 to 10 scale.)
Might want to replay that scene later in the route. You'll see something you didn't know the significance of until you're knee-deep in the Heaven's Feel stuff.

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Shinji's Visit to the Emiya Household:
Wow.

Spoiler: show
Well, let's start off with the biggest bombshell: Shinji has been having sex with Sakura. This is something I've seen in tons of FSN doujins, so I guess I should have expected it to be canon, but still ... there's a difference between imagining (or filling in the gaps for myself) that Shinji has this sort of relationship with Sakura and actually being told it canonically in the game.

But second: that punch to the poor girl's face. What the fuck. Even if he'd slapped her, he'd be way out of line, a bully, a horrible person, etc. But to actually punch her and knock her to the floor ... on MY doorstep ...!

Shinji is a terrible, terrible person. He deserved to die in Path 1 (and did!). He deserved to die even moreso in Path 2 (but didn't! ). And he most deserves to die in Path 3. I know it isn't nice to call for people's execution, but seriously, what a depraved individual. He's pretty much ruined Sakura's life. Now, even if she tries to have a consummate relationship with her Emiya-senpai, she's not going to be able to have sex with him without thinking about the times she was raped by Shinji. Those memories are burned into her mind. She will forever associate sex with Shinji. In that sense, sex is ruined for her. What a fucking prick.
He could have been a good guy, but a certain someone steered him down that path. Shinji completely reformed in UBW, for what it's worth (very little). I should note that the Matou family is pretty screwed up, though his Dad is probably the worst. His uncle was awesome, but wasn't without his closet skeletons.

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Rendezvous with Ilya, Part II:
That scene was really cute. It was also pretty awesome to finally get to see Ilya's servants Sella and Leysritt, although as expected they're not likely to become friends of Shirou's. I appreciated the nod (intentional or not) to Kanon's Ayu in having Shirou gift Ilya a bag full of taiyaki. Maybe taiyaki just conjure up an image of cute girls in heavy winter clothes in the minds of most Japanese men , I dunno. I would have LOVED to have had a CG of Ilya preparing to take, and subsequently taking, a big bite out of a taiyaki. That would have been awesome. Oh well.
It might be becoming a trend, Shana popularized the image of "lolis" eating melon pan. Though I haven't seen many little girls in snow eating taiayki since FSN (haven't seen many little girls in snow period).
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:20 PM   #77
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What? The fact that Rin's eyes turned a hypnotic red? I assumed it meant ...
A) Shirou was dreaming of sex with a hypnotized Rin
B) Shirou was having sex with Dark Sakura in his dreams, and she took on the visage of Rin
C) Shirou was having sex with Ilya in his dreams, and she took on the visage of Rin

But all three were pretty outlandish so I didn't even bring it up last post.
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:22 PM   #78
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Ilya Glomps Me, I Nosebleed:
So Ilya came out of nowhere and attacked me one day. (pic) And by "attacked me," I mean she jumped out of hiding and glomped me with a pouty face. What do I to turn her frown upside-down? Why, I invite her to my house, of course! Needless to say, Saber was not amused. But this was a very cool scene. Without actually coming out and saying it, Nasu more or less tells the player with this scene, "Ilya is looking around the house she would have grown up in had she been raised by Kiritsugu and not the Einzberns." It was awkwardly cute when she looked sad at the end and said that she was upset she hadn't been able to find the man her mission was to kill (i.e. Kiritsugu). She said it like that, but you know what she really meant was that she was sad that Daddy is really gone. Oh, Ilya, you poor thing ...

A Surprise Meeting in a New Location:
Rin tells me to meet her at 4pm after school at the Chinese restaurant in the business district. This was unexpected. New scenes this late in the game? Wow! I wonder what it looks like inside. I wonder if-- AUGH! What are you doing here!? This was a really cool scene. I really enjoyed it.

Spoiler: show
One thing that bothers me about Kotomine's role in FSN is, every time, every path, I feel like the guy's a nice guy until we get to the end of the path and realize that he's a sick fucker and also the mastermind pulling the strings behind all this. Like, in both Fate and UBW, the Kotomine-Gilgamesh duo are the final bad guys you face off against. They are the enemies above all enemies. Even if that slightly changes in Heavens Feel, it still doesn't change the fact that Kotomine's not a nice man. And yet: every time I play the game, I think "This guy's pretty neat. Why does Shirou have such a problem with him? "

This was especially true in the Chinese restaurant scene. Kotomine laid it out on the line that he was Lancer's master but that he was now out of the war since his Servant had died. (Whether he's lying or not, since obviously he's still got Gilgamesh in cahoots with him, I dunno. But taking him at his word, this is +1 point for Kotomine.) Then he goes on to have this funny scene where he's devouring bowl after bowl of really spicy food. I dunno, I just found it amusing. It's hard to hate somebody the more human they become. And I found it funny that Shirou used Kotomine's love of spicy food to justify his hatred of this man. LOL What fucked-up logic. lol


Dickworms:
So, yeah: the Makiri lustworms. I had not remembered from my doujinshi purveys just how phallic these creatures were until I saw them in-game. They look like a bizarre fusion of a silverfish, a penis, and the LOLWUT pear. They just ... look so weird. >_>

But it was pretty cool to learn all about Matou Zouken's usage of them in the scene where ...
Spoiler: show
... he kills that one young woman in Shinto in order to secure a new body.


Sakura in Heat:
So, I've reached my first teaser for the route's promise of Shirou x Sakura action. But nothing more than this yet. Sakura has a number of times gotten red in the face and panty, but so far Shirou's still identifying it as "the flu" and Sakura is writing it off as "being tired" .

To give you a feel for where I am ...

Spoiler: show
  • Sakura made lunch for Shirou and proposed they eat it together in the archery club dojo.
  • But Shirou spaced and went to the rooftop to discuss strategy with Rin. She ate half his lunch ...
  • ... and then realized "OH FUCK" when Shirou offhandedly mentioned that Sakura had made this for him but she had made so much it would be plenty for two.
  • So we go back down the stairs and run into Sakura who begins to go into her Dark Sakura mode, except Rin quickly defuses the situation by telling Sakura that this was all her fault and that it wasn't what Sakura thought it was.
  • Shirou and Saber go out on patrol that night. They run into Rin and Archer facing off against Matou Zouken.
  • Zouken got cut in half by Archer.
  • His upper torso fled when "the Shadow" appeared near the bridge.
  • The Shadow attacked Rin but Shirou pushed her out of the way and took the brunt of its attack. He seemed to become contaminated by it, but nothing more's been said on this matter.
  • Zouken's bugs devoured a woman fleeing for her life in Shinto.
  • True Assassin appeared and addressed what he recognized to be his master. So now we know that Matou Zouken is the master of True Assassin.
  • Though I am still confused as to whether he summoned True Assassin at the start of the war or whether he summoned True Assassin only after the war had started and we saw True Assassin punch its way out of Assassin's body. I'm also confused how/why the Grail would have allowed for an eighth servant to be summoned (whether you want to label Assassin or True Assassin as the eighth being entirely up to you).
  • Given the Shadow's colorings, I'm pretty sure that it either is Sakura already or else that it will join up with Sakura at some point. (Since I know what Dark Sakura looks like already.) It'd make sense if it's already Sakura since the Shadow seemed to want to hurt Rin, and that'd make sense since Sakura is jealous of Rin, believing Shirou to be in love with her (due to the combination of [1] the sex dream and [2] the boxed lunch fiasco).

Last edited by Talon87; 02-13-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:26 PM   #79
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True Assassin is Servant #7. He replaced Kojirou as the proper Assassin of the 5th HGW.

And a big reason Shirou hates Kotomine is because they're really alike. Kotomine even looks like Shirou in F/Z, though the similarities don't seem to have much bearing on what Archer thinks. Funnily enough, Kotomine also seems to have similar harem/seduction powers to Shirou, given his antics prior to the 4th HGW.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:31 PM   #80
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I thought so, too! Glad to hear I'm not crazy or imagining things. I thought the two were very similar as well.

You say True Assassin is servant #7. And I can see that being true, given that I've now seen his fight against Saber at the Ryudou Temple. But ... what does that make Sasaki Kojirou? Was he an imposter, summoned by Caster but never really a Servant recognized by the Grail? Or was he authentically Servant #7 and some sort of switcheroo took place between him and True Assassin?

One thing is clear: where Sasaki Kojirou seemed more swordsman than assassin, True Assassin is totally what you think of when you think "assassin." The throwing daggers, the trickery, the crawling-like-a-shadow up temple rafters and along the grassy ground ...

I just don't like how he is some identity-less Middle Easterner. I'd much rather he be a Heroic Spirit. But I even read the text in-game which confirmed that the Assassin Class is not compatible with Heroic Spirits, i.e. there really aren't any famous heroes in the history of Man who have been assassins. Wizards like Merlin, swordsmen like the Three Musketeers, lancers like Cu Chulainn, sure: but no assassins.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:55 PM   #81
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Kojirou could be created because there was a vacancy open for a Servant, but he's more of a "substitute" Servant #7. The amount of mana that went into his creation was far less than a regular Servant, so he's literally only a fraction of the soul power of average Servants like Lancer or Archer. But, even though he's a substitute Servant, the fact that he was summoned means all the vacancies were filled, since only seven Servants can be summoned in any one war (more than seven occured in the 5th because they were hold-overs from prior wars). To summon True Assassin, Zouken needed to replace an existing Servant, and so he basically appropriated Kojirou as a start up cost for TA. So I guess it's like Yu-Gi-Oh!'s concept of tributing monsters to summon stronger ones.

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I just don't like how he is some identity-less Middle Easterner. I'd much rather he be a Heroic Spirit. But I even read the text in-game which confirmed that the Assassin Class is not compatible with Heroic Spirits, i.e. there really aren't any famous heroes in the history of Man who have been assassins. Wizards like Merlin, swordsmen like the Three Musketeers, lancers like Cu Chulainn, sure: but no assassins.
Hattori Hanzou?
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:08 PM   #82
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Wait, is this always the case for summoning True Assassin? Because I thought ...

Spoiler: show
True Assassin was the one who filled the Assassin slot right from the get-go in War 4?
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:28 PM   #83
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It only happened like it did in the 5th because Caster, a Servant herself, summoned an incomplete Servant with insufficient mana. Hassan is supposed to be the only being who can be summoned as Assassin, Kojirou is "bugged" as it were.
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:47 PM   #84
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Of Superheroes and Sakuras:
Okay, well, now once again I feel like I've gotten to a crossroads, but who's to say in hindsight whether the choice I was presented with will really have any bearing on the unfolding plot or not?

Spoiler: show
After talking with Archer outside of the church and later Ilya in the park, I was presented with a choice: continue towards my goal of being a superhero or prioritizing Sakura's life. These choices are only mutually exclusive if Rin is correct about the danger Sakura poses to others being something which cannot be avoided. If Rin is wrong, then we can have our cake and eat it too. But anyway, for the sake of the romantic story -- and a gut feeling that this choice will unlock the True End -- I went with "I'll save Sakura no matter what." In real life, I wouldn't have had such a choice to make, so it's pointless to criticize me for not picking what I would have done in real life. Neither of the two options accurately fit what I'd do in real life. (In real life, I'd try to protect Sakura but I'd also try to guard the townspeople from Dark Sakura.)


So anyway, we'll see how things play out as a result of this choice. Maybe it was just an artificial choice, I dunno, but it seemed pretty heavy-duty. I mean, it got the Archer treatment, the Ilya treatment, and the song "This Illusion (Piano Arrangement)" playing during it. So yeah: if that isn't over-the-top obvious that the scene was important, I don't know what is.

Sakura, you're creepin' me out, girl!:
There's this scene in the game where Sakura says:
Quote:
"I see. I just have to keep [Senpai] from going outside."

She reaches a simple answer with a calm voice. Delighted by her sudden insight, she smiles and ...

"Right. You won't get in any more danger if you're hurt so badly that you can't walk."
When I saw this, I was like, "Hooooooooooooo shit! " But nothing came of it. Sakura never attempted to bust Shirou's kneecaps or anything.

RIDER! :
Backtracking a bit to the scene at Ryudou Temple (Saber vs. True Assassin) ...

Spoiler: show
It was pretty awesome to see Rider return. God damn, she is sexy! So cool to see her defending Shirou.


It was also really cool to finally, finally officially have her identity revealed. And her Mystic Eyes! Talk about great timing on my part to watch Kara no Kyoukai before picking FSN back up! I wouldn't have even remembered what the term "mystic eyes" meant from Tsukihime were it not for Kara no Kyoukai. So the whole explanation about Rider's particular flavor of Mystic Eyes and how they are of a legendary status not seen in the times of mortals was both well-understood and well-received.

I didn't like the handwavey bullshit Nasu pulled, though, at the end of that fight scene.

Spoiler: show
It looks like Rider has got the heroes backed into a corner courtesy of her eyes and then Shirou conveniently blacks out and when he wakes up everyone's alive and well. What the fuck. >_> I know, I know: it was all because Sakura went nuts and tried to kill herself and so the Andromeda Blood Fort spell weakened and Rider called off her attack to prioritize her Master's survival, etc etc, but come on. Talk about your obvious cases of writers not being able to figure out how their heroes can get out of particularly sticky situations.


Current Progress:
The sex scene with Sakura at Maison d'Emiya. Leave it to Nasu to take a touching sex scene and muck it up with ridiculously corny dialogue. "Senpai ... is my body dirty?"

Last edited by Talon87; 02-13-2011 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:11 PM   #85
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You chose wisely. Trying to protect the town would've lead to a Bad End, I think. Also,

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
It was also really cool to finally, finally officially have her identity revealed. And her Mystic Eyes! Talk about great timing on my part to watch Kara no Kyoukai before picking FSN back up! I wouldn't have even remembered what the term "mystic eyes" meant from Tsukihime were it not for Kara no Kyoukai. So the whole explanation about Rider's particular flavor of Mystic Eyes and how they are of a legendary status not seen in the times of mortals was both well-understood and well-received.
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Might want to replay that scene later in the route. You'll see something you didn't know the significance of until you're knee-deep in the Heaven's Feel stuff.
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Current Progress:
The sex scene with Sakura at Maison d'Emiya. Leave it to Nasu to take a touching sex scene and muck it up with ridiculously corny dialogue. "Senpai ... is my body dirty?"
Yeah, what a dumb question. Of course it is, Sakura.

I should chime in that most of the H-scenes I've seen in VNs tend to be rather bad, yet Nasu's personal charm seems to amplify the abberance. But the awkward ones are the worst.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:09 PM   #86
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I just remembered something mentioned in BMW and I'm wondering if it's canon or just something Wark made up.
Spoiler: show
Archer was talking to Sakura while she was being held captive, and he said that he was so driven by his morals, that he killed her. I mean, it would make sense if he did, but it was never mentioned in FSN (atleast as far as I remember.) Anyway, I'm basically asking whether he did or not.


Also, I wonder if Shirou catches worms in Heaven's Feel?
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:21 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
I just remembered something mentioned in BMW and I'm wondering if it's canon or just something Wark made up.
Spoiler: show
Archer was talking to Sakura while she was being held captive, and he said that he was so driven by his morals, that he killed her. I mean, it would make sense if he did, but it was never mentioned in FSN (atleast as far as I remember.) Anyway, I'm basically asking whether he did or not.
He did. It was mentioned in F/ha I think.

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Also, I wonder if Shirou catches worms in Heaven's Feel?
That didn't happen.
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:19 AM   #88
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Disclaimer: this post contains major spoilers, but nothing that hasn't already been spoiled earlier in the thread back when our community was smaller and so we all just assumed that everyone knew certain major details. Lil' Blue, you're safe to read all of this.

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Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post
First off, I am officially GAR for Lancer. Don't ask me how that works.

That being said...
Spoiler: show
CURSE YOU KOTOMINE. How dare you force my favorite character - let alone Servant - so far to suffer such a lame death as impalement by his own spear?! Gr... At least he got back up and stopped the priest from killing Rin (not to mention Shinji from raping her!). So at least his death wasn't in vain. It was still cheap though. T-T


The Archer vs. Shirou fight was cool, though I was hoping for Shirou to learn how to summon his own Reality Marble at this point so a scene like in the 2nd animé OP could take place. Archer particularly annoys me now since I have my own vision of becoming a superhero, so every time I feel like his words are testing me as much as they are his younger self.
Lancer is amazing in Unlimited Blade Works. I didn't care for the guy at all in the anime. I weakly cared for him after playing through Fate. But in playing Unlimited Blade Works, wherein he takes a major role in the plot alongside our heroes, I came to love the guy immensely. I was especially psyched to discover in the UBW path that Cu Chulainn could just as easily be summoned as a Caster as a Lancer since he was (apparently?) just as famous if not more famous for his runes than he was for his spear Gae Bolg. That's just crazy. It's so hard for me to imagine him as a Caster-class Servant having only come to know him through FSN, but on the flipside it is so, so cool to know that he's such a badass that he transcends classes. (I don't think the same thing can be said for many of the Servants, especially Arturia. To not summon King Arthur for his/her sword Excalibur is to pretty much botch the summons completely. I hesitate to say that Arthur is worthless as a non-Saber, but it's undeniable that he/she is at his/her best in the Saber class.)

The Archer vs. Shirou fight is probably the climax of the path, if for no other reasons than:
(1) should one enter it unspoilered, it is the point where one once and for all learns Archer's true identity, and
(2) the bad-ass theme song "EMIYA" plays during the fight and is just so, so perfect

But of course the scene offers more than these two things alone. As you mentioned, the scene is important because the future self chastises the younger self for his self-destructive dream -- a dream which we all admire. It is the ultimate tragedy that Archer, in successfully becoming a superhero, necessarily sacrificed some lives (cough cough) in order to save others. And that, afterwards, the people would reject him for his actions, despite the fact that he saved them, and he would become the pariah of his era.

The thing which bugs me most about the fight is temporal logic. If Archer is the future Shirou, and if (as in the UBW path) the events of UBW are what is playing out, then it follows that Archer must have himself, as a young man, experienced the UBW path personally. This means two things for the plot:

First, it means that we know that Shirou can't possibly lose the fight. For Shirou to die would be to introduce a paradox: for how could a boy who dies grow up to become the man who kills the boy later in the time-loop? It doesn't work. The boy has to survive such that he can grow up to become Archer. So if you think about it, this takes a lot of suspense out of the fight.

Second, it calls into question why Archer would even attempt to kill his former self in the first place. Yes, I understand his motivations, but what I'm saying is that he should know full well that the past cannot be changed: that even if you are summoned into the past, everything you do there will all lead towards the future you just came from.

I suppose the answer to the temporal paradox is the supposition that Nasu does not share in my theories of time travel -- namely, that he subscribes to the belief that multiple timelines originate from any one action-point in time and that he also believes that his creation, the Throne of Heroes, transcends all timelines -- and thus you can theoretically have Archer be the end-result of Shirou from Path 4 (Heavens Feel Unwritten End?), and you can have that same Archer be summoned into the Fate, UBW, or HF paths without any problems. In other words, perhaps Nasu believes that you can change the past with time travel. But I say bah to that. :\ This is where we have creative differences ... although I guess that's not the right term for it since I'm not on the creation staff for this game. ^^;

Last edited by Talon87; 02-20-2011 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:17 PM   #89
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Lancer is really awesome in UBW but F/ha is really where his character grows. If the Master-Servant dynamic is a major selling point to FSN's plot, you can imagine Lancer had such an interesting relationship with his original master.

We also get the TYPE-MOON version of his past, which is surprisingly accurate to the original legend (as opposed to Rider's...or Saber's).

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Second, it calls into question why Archer would even attempt to kill his former self in the first place. Yes, I understand his motivations, but what I'm saying is that he should know full well that the past cannot be changed: that even if you are summoned into the past, everything you do there will all lead towards the future you just came from.
Two reasons for that.

1. It was for his own personal satisfaction to kill Shirou, as if reaffirming his pessemism was correct.
2. A temporal paradox.

What Archer was gambling on in killing Shirou was the hope that UBW Shirou was going to become an Eirei. Records in the Throne of Heroes are composites of information from all time-lines, and they're constantly being drawn from the time-lines, it's not a one-time copy/paste, it's more along the lines of a computer running on vital resources in a system32 file. Archer wanted to delete a vital file in system32, which he hoped (he wasn't sure, and had a lot of doubts given he existed) would sublime reality and free him of his torment. If it wouldn't, he'd settle for #1.

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I suppose the answer to the temporal paradox is the supposition that Nasu does not share in my theories of time travel -- namely, that he subscribes to the belief that multiple timelines originate from any one action-point in time and that he also believes that his creation, the Throne of Heroes, transcends all timelines -- and thus you can theoretically have Archer be the end-result of Shirou from Path 4 (Heavens Feel Unwritten End?), and you can have that same Archer be summoned into the Fate, UBW, or HF paths without any problems. In other words, perhaps Nasu believes that you can change the past with time travel. But I say bah to that. :\ This is where we have creative differences ... although I guess that's not the right term for it since I'm not on the creation staff for this game. ^^;
The Throne of Heroes is part of Akasha, and does transcend the parallel universes of our world. However, the record of Eirei in the Throne is based on a composite of all incarnations of the original hero who would become an Eirei.
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:15 PM   #90
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Yeah, see, I think that's dumb. But whatever. I'm still enjoying the ride, so I can handle a few bumps in the road ...
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:16 PM   #91
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I was especially psyched to discover in the UBW path that Cu Chulainn could just as easily be summoned as a Caster as a Lancer since he was (apparently?) just as famous if not more famous for his runes than he was for his spear Gae Bolg.
That was a really nifty fact to learn. I would definitely like to have such a guy on my side, or at least see him paired with a Master who would recognize and make the most of his hidden abilities. Given that most of us probably never heard of Cú Chulainn before FSN, he'd be practically unknown in Japan and therefore hold the greatest element of surprise (as Dopple mentioned in the suggestion thread). An unluckier Servant than Saber would probably fall right for his Gae Bolg trap the first time he used it. It was just unfortunate timing and circumstances that forced him to leak his identity.

Anyway, finished UBW. I pretty much agree with Talon's complaints about the ending, but otherwise I very much enjoyed it.

Question: I'm missing one final CG after the one of Rin sitting on a desk with the sunset coming through the window. Is this from the "Good" ending Dopple mentioned? Is so, how do I achieve this ending?

Also, how does one go about docking onto Heaven's Feel? Should I just pay attention to Sakura from the beginning?
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #92
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About how to dock onto Heavens Feel ...

Spoiler: show
Yeah, you won't get any official confirmation for the longest time -- the first "Heavens Feel"-labeled Interlude is like on Day 3 or something. But you'll know you're doing it right if you meet a character you've never seen before. Don't want to spoil the surprise for you, though I can here if you must know:
Spoiler: show
Matou Zouken, Shinji's grandfather

This character was totally missing (or at the very least was operating behind the scenes? ) in Fate and UBW, but he's a major character in Heavens Feel so you'll know him when you see him.

Every time I played the games prior, I always lavished attention on Sakura anyway. When I played Fate, I was dedicated towards Sakura all the way until Saber was summoned. And when I played UBW, I did the same except for those rare instances where I was forced to pick between doting on Rin or on Sakura. So docking onto the Heavens Feel path for me didn't feel like I was doing anything special at all.

But to answer your question, yes: it seems from my own recent experience that all you'll have to do in order to dock onto the HF path is to dote on Sakura, to always pick the Sakura-related option, etc. When you do, now that you've cleared UBW, you'll occasionally notice some new screens' worth of dialogue following old and familiar choices you made. But really, the big clues that you're doing things right will be the appearance of the new challenger and, eventually, your first Heavens Feel interlude scene.


I was disappointed to discover that there was no Heavens Feel opening movie file. I was so certain there would be one. Oh well. Letting you know this so that you don't do what I did: panic that you may not have docked properly since you never saw the movie. (I quit panicking once I was already on, like, Day 6 or Day 7 and was clearly playing Heavens Feel but still had not seen a trace of any movie ... )
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:25 PM   #93
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Yeah, the CG you're missing comes from the Good End.

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Yeah, see, I think that's dumb. But whatever. I'm still enjoying the ride, so I can handle a few bumps in the road ...
I can't say I don't agree. It's needlessly complex, and the complexity only seems to arise because it has to tie into the TYPE-MOON world mechanics.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:51 PM   #94
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There's really no opening movie for HF? Darn, I was wondering why I couldn't find one when I searched YT.

I haven't particularly paid much attention to Sakura since I prefer Saber and Rin. I still support ShirouxSaber mainly due to the fact Shirou has you-know-what inside of him, so it makes symbolic sense. Rin's cool so I admire her, but I don't quite see her as a match for Shirou. Though UBW's ending did make me more partial to the idea of ArcherxRin, if that makes any sense. It's just that in my opinion I don't think any girl should settle for Shirou until he fixes that old-school "chivalric bordering on chauvanistic" view of his, which Archer thankfully seems to lack. Saber gets a pass since she has zero experience as a woman and therefore doesn't know any better, not to mention she lived during the age of chivalry anyway.

That being said, I guess Sakura would be the best choice since she seems weak and in need of protection anyway. I just don't personally feel anything special towards her. We'll see if this path changes my mind.

And Dopple, could you give me some advice on how to achieve the "good" UBW ending? I'm also curious to see how it turns out.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:10 PM   #95
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I just saw the dream sex scene with Rin. All I have to say is that those HYPNOTIC RED EYES ARE GONNA GIVE ME NIGHTMARES AHHH!!!

...

Anyway, my theory is that the dream Rin is somehow related to the "True Assassin" that was just summoned. As "it" consumed the corpses at Ryuudouji and kept repeating "It is not enough", Rin's sexual advances towards Shirou in the dream seemed to echo those sentiments.

I've been relatively unspoiled on the Heaven's Feel path aside from the knowledge of what Sakura eventually becomes (and only in name), so I'm pretty much playing blind from now on. All of these events and characters are new to me. o.o;;;
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:37 PM   #96
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Rin and Shirou really work optimally as best friends/partners, not as lovers, though I like Rin a lot as a heroine. I agree that Saber x Shirou is best, and Archer seems to feel that way too (the memories of his life are rather vague, but the one scene he distinctly remembers is his first meeting with Saber). I wish Nasu had given a more satisfying resolution to the Shirou x Saber, Fate doesn't cut it.

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And Dopple, could you give me some advice on how to achieve the "good" UBW ending? I'm also curious to see how it turns out.
Throughout the route make a lot of pro-Saber decisions.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:39 PM   #97
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Not a bad guess, but like Doppel said: it's all about the eyes.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:43 PM   #98
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I'm about to form a contract with Rin, and she's asking me whether I will obey her or not. I tested out both answers. Seems refusing actually nets a positive response, whereas accepting the condition places a geas of coercion on me. Talon, which option did you choose? I'm curious how this will affect the story later on.

As for the event that led to this proposal...

Spoiler: show
Holy crap Saber died. o.o;;; Totally did not expect this development.


Btw, Talon, you may want to go back to the Ilya glomping scene and choose the second method of apologizing to her. ^~
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:12 AM   #99
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I'm about to form a contract with Rin, and she's asking me whether I will obey her or not. I tested out both answers. Seems refusing actually nets a positive response, whereas accepting the condition places a geas of coercion on me. Talon, which option did you choose? I'm curious how this will affect the story later on.
I know the conversation you're talking about though I forget what all the questions were. I remember there were at least two, possibly three. Supposing there were two, I answered the first one saying I'd do as she asked but the second one I told her no. It was something along the lines of "Will you do what I tell you to, no matter what it is?" and I answered "No" because in real life my thinking would be, "No, I'm not going to do whatever you tell me" and as a gamer my thinking was "Oh shit, if I say 'yes,' then later on she'll ask me 'Please die :3' and it'll be a Bad End! " So I said No either way. And then she was all, "Good, I'm glad to hear it. I'd have worried you were a bad partner if you'd said Yes. I need you to be able to stand up and tell me 'No!' when you think I'm wrong, otherwise what good are you to me?" Something like that.

I didn't explore the other options -- to me, that's sort of like cheating in a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book where you look at the outcome for both options before sticking with one -- so I can't weigh in on the ramifications for what having told her "Yes" would mean. Which brings us to ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post
Btw, Talon, you may want to go back to the Ilya glomping scene and choose the second method of apologizing to her. ^~
Maybe on a second playthrough I will. What was the second option? I remember there being three, and I save at all question-points so it'll be very easy for me to explore it later should I want to. I just remember that option #1 was to invite her over to my house, which is the one I picked. And I'm very pleased with that outcome. She was adorably pleased to see where Kiritsugu lived and I got some good (if sadly limited) additional insight into her backstory.

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Spoiler: show
Holy crap Saber died. o.o;;; Totally did not expect this development.
Wow, you really haven't been HF spoilered. While I didn't know that she ____, per se, I did know that something like it would have to happen given the existence of D___ _____. I'm surprised you've never heard nor seen of D___ _____ before. Or maybe you have but the fact that Saber ____ still surprised you. Where and how it happened surprised me too, I'll confess. I was expecting ...

(do not click unless you can fill in the blanks I wrote up above all on your own already) (see comments below for more about this)
Spoiler: show
... Dark Sakura to bust out something like Rule Breaker and steal Saber from Shirou. So I, too, was surprised to see Saber get defeated by True Assassin prior to the evolution of Dark Sakura.


There's a very, very famous wallpaper that spoiled some HF stuff for me ages ago. But it was also one of those things which had me interested in HF from the beginning. However, it's a big spoiler, especially if you say you've managed to avoid HF spoilers, so only click this if you're wanting to verify that you already know what I'm talking about, yet do so at your own risk. If you have successfully avoided HF spoilers, then this will be pretty devastating.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:03 AM   #100
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I know the conversation you're talking about though I forget what all the questions were. I remember there were at least two, possibly three. Supposing there were two, I answered the first one saying I'd do as she asked but the second one I told her no. It was something along the lines of "Will you do what I tell you to, no matter what it is?" and I answered "No" because in real life my thinking would be, "No, I'm not going to do whatever you tell me" and as a gamer my thinking was "Oh shit, if I say 'yes,' then later on she'll ask me 'Please die :3' and it'll be a Bad End! " So I said No either way. And then she was all, "Good, I'm glad to hear it. I'd have worried you were a bad partner if you'd said Yes. I need you to be able to stand up and tell me 'No!' when you think I'm wrong, otherwise what good are you to me?" Something like that.

I didn't explore the other options -- to me, that's sort of like cheating in a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book where you look at the outcome for both options before sticking with one -- so I can't weigh in on the ramifications for what having told her "Yes" would mean.
I panicked when Rin placed a geas on me, so I went back and tested all options. Answering "yes" or "no" to her first two questions doesn't have any bearing, but whether you ultimately accept her conditions or not determines whether the curse takes effect.

The reason I decided to try agreeing to it first is because I thought Shirou just might be stupid and desperate enough to do so. In this scenario, he's lost Saber and Rin seems to be the only one he can rely on. Maybe I just can't forgive him for being so easily trusting of his enemies in previous paths (*cough*Ilya*cough*). Certainly in real life I personally wouldn't agree to such terms, but then I also wouldn't go stupidly running into danger all the time like Shirou does. =x

Having seen the animé first, I'm more familiar with animé Shirou's personality and view him as a seperate entity. Thus unlike the previous VNs I've played, I've discontinued the gamer thought process entirely and instead try to emulate the protagonist's. In that vein, I decided to lie to Sakura about the sex dream, since I see him as the type of guy who'd avoid the truth in order to protect somebody, as well as be too embarrassed to admit such a thing - especially to a girl he likes. We'll see how our paths may differ due to this decision.

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Maybe on a second playthrough I will. What was the second option? I remember there being three, and I save at all question-points so it'll be very easy for me to explore it later should I want to. I just remember that option #1 was to invite her over to my house, which is the one I picked. And I'm very pleased with that outcome. She was adorably pleased to see where Kiritsugu lived and I got some good (if sadly limited) additional insight into her backstory.
The second option was to obey a command from Ilya like a Servant. The result is that while you don't take her home, you do spend some quality time together. The bonus is an extra CG, and while it's no taiyaki, it's pretty cute. You also get to hear Ilya briefly mention her mum.

(This is another reason why I'm exploring more options now in search of hidden gems. As a warning, option three produces a scary response.)

Quote:
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Wow, you really haven't been HF spoilered. While I didn't know that she ____, per se, I did know that something like it would have to happen given the existence of D___ _____. I'm surprised you've never heard nor seen of D___ _____ before. Or maybe you have but the fact that Saber ____ still surprised you. Where and how it happened surprised me too, I'll confess.
I mentioned I have heard of the name D___ _____, but that's it. I don't know exactly what that entails or how D___ _____ comes into being. I didn't click your spoiler, though I did peek at the wallpaper. I think I recognize one of the characters as Saber, but I have no idea who the other is (although the URL just gave me a clue). Still don't know how it all relates to the plot.
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