Pokemon Plus: Nobunaga no Yabou

[Allishinca]

While I love any Pokemon game where you start with Eevee, I know I'm not good with strategy RPGs. However, I know someone else who will be playing through it, so I'll be watching the plot unfold. :3

[kusari]

So, english release was yesterday. I got it today at 3 pm. Holy fucking hell was Talon right when he said it was easy. I lost literally once (only because Mitsuhide's slippery ice was fucking up movements).

My favorite example of the easiness:

Spoiler: show

I'm out training my guys and accidentally leave Kenshin alone where he's perfectly open to attack by the Flying nation. They attack and I proceed to curbstomp them with one Pokemon, in three turns without taking a hit (keep in mind that this was three Fliers vs a Gallade).

So yeah. Not too terribly hard.


Favorite part of the main story:

Spoiler: show

The initial meeting with Masamune and Magoichi. The quips back and forth managed to get a few chuckles out of me.

All in all, it's a decent game. I recommend it, just don't expect too mich of a challenge.

[jolteonjak]

Originally Posted by kusari

My favorite example of the easiness:

Spoiler: show

I'm out training my guys and accidentally leave Kenshin alone where he's perfectly open to attack by the Flying nation. They attack and I proceed to curbstomp them with one Pokemon, in three turns without taking a hit (keep in mind that this was three Fliers vs a Gallade).

So yeah. Not too terribly hard.

The problem with this:

Spoiler: show

Kenshin is pretty overpowered. Also of the three that attacked (was it Starly, Staravia, and Golbat for you too?), only one of them has an attack that's super effective against Gallade.

I took him to the main battle against Avia castle, and he very easily could have taken out more than just Golbat and Carnivine. But I wanted some of my NFE Pokemon to get some battling in. I also had the Samurott Warlord and the Gyrados Warrior (not sure on names), who are also wicked overpowered.

I hear the different side stories, after the main story is complete, aren't easy with the enemy attacking often which is unlike the main story.

[Talon87]

They're quite easy imo. When I played the Japanese game, I completed one or two four-star rated campaigns and maybe even one five-star rated campaign if I recall correctly. The three-star or lower rated campaigns are as easy as if not easier than anything you're seeing right now in your first story. I guess it depends on how you play, who you like to use, etc. I'm pretty sure I blogged about how I beat the Kenshin vs. Shingen missions in three turns or less. (Even beating them in five turns would be considered swift considering the mission ends once you get 5 wins.) And iirc those missions were rated as three-star missions, so yeah, not very hard.

I think the missions will be harder for people who rush to complete each mission rather than doing what I did which was to grind in the very first mission you unlock. I ground and ground and ground in there until I had gotten like 20+ of the main bushous paired up with their partner Pokémon and gotten them to bushou evolve and everything. As a result, when I then went to do a mission like (say) the 4-star rated mission of Yukimura's, I already had Charizard for my partner whereas a lot of people might have whatever he starts with (I forget what it is) or at best a Charmeleon if they managed to pair him up with Charmeleon during an earlier mission. But because I had gotten him and Takeda Shingen to really high linkages as a result I not only unlocked Charizard but I got Yukimura to bushou evolve, and even though 'Zard is slow as molasses he's so powerful that he's pretty much a giant beat stick for that campaign, all the more so when you have Yukimura's advanced bushou power. Considering this then, I guess I can imagine that maybe some of the missions would be harder if you just rushed from mission to mission without bushou evolving anybody or getting any of their partner Pokemon to fully evolve.

[jolteonjak]

I'm trying to grind in the main story, and that's proving to be a little difficult (as in tedious not I keep dying or something). What can I say I'm a evolution freak.

Spoiler: show

Do you have Registeel? I hear that's thorn in other players' sides.

[Talon87]

I didn't bother to get him, no. I do have Tokugawa Ieyasu bushou evolved though. And that was a bit of a bitch since IIRC he doesn't evolve until like the Level 80s or something.

DO NOT GRIND IN STORY MODE. I REPEAT, DO -NOT- GRIND IN STORY MODE!

Just beat the first mission ASAP. Do not grind.

I grinded/ground/whatever in the second mission of the game (the first of the unlockables not counting DLC), and even that proved to be a technical mistake only because you can't get certain characters to evolve until you've completed certain missions. For example, ...

Spoiler: show

IIRC Akechi Mitsuhide will not evolve until you've beaten his stage at least once.

But if you want to grind early, then I would recommend grinding in the first non-DLC stage rather than grinding in Story Mode. The first non-DLC mission is, like Story Mode, a full campaign (conquer all of the other nations), and it has all of the recruitable characters available for you save ...

Spoiler: show

... the three boys, the traveling bard, and the Hero

... which will allow you to level up 20+ characters if you so choose. It's what I did.

[jolteonjak]

Spoiler: show

I'm having Eevee issues. What to evolve my first one into? What are your thoughts? I'm on the last 3 kingdoms (Steel, Ice, Ghost)

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by jolteonjak

I'm having ...

Spoiler: show

Eevee issues. What to evolve my first one into? What are your thoughts? I'm on the last 3 kingdoms (Steel, Ice, Ghost)

Well ...

Spoiler: show

You should go with what you like. I held off on evolving my Eevee too, just like you have, not sure whether I wanted a Glaceon or a Leafeon (style faves for this game) or an Espeon or a Vaporeon (power faves for this game) and I ended up getting pleasantly surprised when I kept pressing on. You might too.

Expand the spoiler box below if you want to know what I'm talking about and possibly save yourself an hour of trouble should you find the surprise to be an unpleasant one. (I loved it. ) Do not expand it if you would instead prefer to find the surprise out on your own. You're so close anyway.

Spoiler: show

After I defeated Mitsuhide, my Eevee evolved into a Glaceon all on her own. It was then that I found out that the way the non-stone Eeveelutions evolve in this game is by using them in a successful battle in a corresponding stage -- Kenshin's psychic stone stage for Espeon, Kotarou's dark ninja lair for Umbreon, Motonari's grass kingdom for Leafeon, and finally Mitsuhide's frozen-over pond for Glaceon. Since the game is designed such that you typically clear those first three well before your Eevee is ready to evolve but you don't clear the fourth and final one until he/she is ready to evolve, many players wind up with Glaceons, an outcome I am all but certain was deliberate on the part of the game design team. Read on to see why.

Personally, I think Glaceon is the best Eeveelution to get in the game hands down. Very good power (even if not quite as powerful as Vaporeon supposedly) and the thing is good Ice types are very hard to come by, especially in Story Mode where you pretty much won't get any. This makes Glaceon a champ-beast for taking out Nobunaga. He resists four of the other six Eeveelutions but to Glaceon he falls faster than a house of cards. It's really awesome and Glaceon is, to quote Daisy, "totes adorbs."

[kusari]

>Evolving Eevee

After reading Talon's playthrough, I just waited until late in the game and did what he did. Makes even post story missions wickedly easier when you're lucky enough to recruit the Hero.

I've gotten most of my Warlords evolved to their best point (exceptions include Hideyoshi because I have to wait for his episode to come out DLC and Inahime because fuck her best link sucks) and I've skipped getting the legends because I don't feel like waiting on them to appear.

Most trouble I've actually had was in Nobunaga's episode with

Spoiler: show

Mitsuhide. The guy can own you for a bit with Lapras. I decided to just grab the rest of Ranse before challenging him and it proved for a damn good training time. Evolved most of my bushou during this point actually.

[jolteonjak]

I think Espeon and Umbreon also require a certain link percentage (to reflect the frenship requirement of the base games). But I see what you're saying. Glaceon and Jolteon appear to be the popular choices from people who've commented on the subject. I think I'll decide on Glaceon first too.

[Talon87]

I don't recall what Jolteon's move is but the reason it may be popular is because (unfortunately) many of the other Electrics in the game have shitty moves in their final form and you don't find out of course until it's too late and you've already saved your game. (Not to mention you'd still want the final form anyway.) But yeah, Luxio and Flaaffy are especially bad with this iirc: both have the excellent move Discharge in their second form but they have the terrible Thunder when they evolve into Luxray and Ampharos. (Thunder has to be one of if not the worst full-power moves in the game. Only affects one square and it's the terribad distance of three squares away. One, fine. Two, better. Three, you had damn well better be an epic boltbeam move like Flamethrower or else you are the worst piece of shit ever.) It's not all bad, of course, as many of the other Pokemon who evolve in the game evolve into awesome final forms with great moves. But the electrics overall get shafted like this.

*looks up Jolteon* Ah, I see. It learns Thunderbolt, the same as Pikachu. It's an okay move. Definitely better than Thunder but not as good imo as Flamethrower. (Give me 1 square wide x 3 squares long any day over 3 squares wide x 1 square long.) I like Raichu, though Volt Tackle is an arguable downgrade over Thunderbolt. (It's basically an Electric-type Brave Bird. Some people love the free movement it gives, other people hate it. I tend to not be a fan simply because it prevents you from attacking from the safety of ledges / the other side of a gap and such, but it's certainly leagues better than shitty Thunder. It's fine on Staraptor though owing to his Flying type.)

[jolteonjak]

Thunder sucks? Good to know. I may evolve those electrics just for the novelty, but in the end I'll use Luxio and Flaaffy instead.

Spoiler: show

Musharna really got the short end of the stick, eh?

[Talon87]

I don't remember if Thunder deals so much more damage that at the lower levels it would be worth it, but by the time you have your bushous evolved I'm pretty sure you manage perfectly fine with the mid-level damage attacks even at the lower linkage levels, never mind the higher ones you eventually re-reach in longer hauls.

Would I discourage you from evolving based on personal actions? No, because I ultimately evolved (or sought to evolve) them myself 'cause I wanted the most evolved forms to pair off with the bushous once they had bushou evolved themselves. But would I at least like to alert you to the fact? Absolutely.

The best thing you can do is to save right before a rinkydink (non-plot related) battle, go do it real quick, let your dude evolve, don't save, and then go take him into any other battle. Test the move for yourself, see if you like it or not. I personally think that a one-square-only attack that is stationed three squares away is really awful (especially in narrow areas where the enemy closes the gap >_<) but you may love it for reasons of your own.

Yeah, though: I would say Discharge is the best move in the game for Electrics while Thunder is the worst, so it's a 180° swap for the worse when your Luxio or Flaaffy evolves (imo).

And yes: Musharna really, really sucks in Pokemon Conquest. So does Gothitelle for that matter. Dream Eater is by far the more terrible of the two, don't get me wrong, but Future Sight isn't pretty either. It's a fine enough move in the real games but in an SRPG the idea of "I let you hit me twice before I can even hit you once" is a terrible tradeoff, especially when (owing to bushou evolutions and/or higher linkage values) all your other attacks OHKO anyway so it's not like Future Sight can even try and curry favor with you by saying "Well at least I deal a lot of damage! "

[Shadowshocker]

Originally Posted by Talon87

The best thing you can do is to save right before a rinkydink (non-plot related) battle, go do it real quick, let your dude evolve, don't save, and then go take him into any other battle. Test the move for yourself, see if you like it or not. I personally think that a one-square-only attack that is stationed three squares away is really awful (especially in narrow areas where the enemy closes the gap >_<) but you may love it for reasons of your own.

I think the idea is to force certain tactics that make things easier - for Pokemon that target faraway enemies you'd have them behind the guys that can only attack the tiles in front of them. This way you'd also be able to use ally-boosting warrior powers. Where Luxio and the other Electrics have a problem is that you usually can't place allied units next to them without risking friendly fire. On the other hand I might be making things harder for myself by forcing myself to get everybody's fully-evolved Best Links, being the completionist I am.

A few other notes from my personal playthroughs:

- Grinding is pretty much not the way to go in the early story since a good number of best link stuff isn't even available until post-credits, when you can invest in territories and obtain otherwise unavailable species. Still, it's probably not a bad idea having a few normal warriors get their best link and re-recruiting them later on; I used Scolipede, Lilligant and Whimsicott best linkers in the early parts of Hideyoshi's mission.

- That said, in accordance with mentioning Hideyoshi, based on a guide I skimmed through his mission is the best to link with Warlords and get their best link Pokemon (Ina to Piplup) even if you don't evolve them. To some extent this makes later missions a lot easier, though to be fair, I've only completed Hideyoshi, Ieyasu, Mitsuhide, Kotaro and I'm still grinding through Yukimura.

- Attacking/defending cities nets you the most link, though admittedly I didn't figure this out until I discussed this with a TCG acquaintance who pointed it out. This is where the game's general lack of challenge kicks in: defending - especially on certain maps - is hilariously easy even if your warriors aren't up to snuff, because you can easily run away. Valora's gears and grappling claws, I've found, make defending extremely easy because your opponent loses if they don't completely defeat you. It's also a good idea, I've realised, to focus on levelling up a few Warlords by using them almost exclusively in the initial phases of "Unite Ransei" missions. Yukimura evolved Kai, Ina, Magoichi and Aya this way.

- The AI will only attack you if their combined power exceeds yours. Leaving a powerful Warlord with some weaker warriors in cities close to opponents will settle things. Especially if said Warlord is broken like Kai and Darmanitan's Fire Blast. Ina and Empoleon is also pretty decent; very decent attack range without the awkward limited movement range of Yukimura's Charizard. Your warlord will completely destroy the invading opposition and your weaker warriors get the link anyway. An alternative I've used is to vacate a city, let the enemy invade, and based on their reshuffling of warriors, send in warriors (with optional Warlord) to take back the city. Effective, but slower than the above. Right now on Yukimura, Muneshige is being held back by Kai, alone, while the other warriors have been leaving Terrera open so they can use Ranmaru as their punching bag.

Uh... I rarely post outside the usual forums. If anyone's already mentioned the above, apologies for repetition.

[Lindz]

Get!

Before I start does this game log your time played like most other PKMN games? Keeping track of that stuff manuallys a pain! Oh and I really like that game card. Can always appreciate a good use of yellowish coloring!

[Talon87]

I'm pretty sure it logs your total time played and that you can confirm it by playing for a bit, saving, turning off the game, turning it back on, and looking for it as you click through the title screen options. Pretty sure it tells you it there. (Too lazy to go fetch my own DS and check for you. Sorry. ^^; )

[kusari]

>Lindz

Just went and checked mine and it's keeping time just like the main series.

>Played 156 hours

Holy shit. I knew I'd played it quite a bit but that's surprising.

[Lindz]

Thanks thanks! I started now and oh gawd this really is a SRPG. Slow and tactical and that awful 3/4 screen view!! Not that I didn't expect any different but I feel overwhelmed already. I don't even know how to pick up or open what looks like items on the field and I read the manual! You won't beat me, game!!

edit! Okay just sit and wait on spots with items! So simple I shoulda thought of it sooner! Useless manual begone!

[jolteonjak]

The travelling salesman a random occurence, right? Can it ever happen before the main story is beaten?

[Schala]

Originally Posted by jolteonjak

The travelling salesman a random occurence, right? Can it ever happen before the main story is beaten?

Yes, it happened to me in the main story at least once.

[Lindz]

Originally Posted by Schala

Yes, it happened to me in the main story at least once.

He just showed up for me! Now I can evolve Eevee & Jigglypuff! But I dunno what I wanna evolve Eevee into and I only got enough moneys for 2 things! Decisions!

[kusari]

Originally Posted by Lindz

He just showed up for me! Now I can evolve Eevee & Jigglypuff! But I dunno what I wanna evolve Eevee into and I only got enough moneys for 2 things! Decisions!

Keiji (the Kabuki/Bastiodon-having wanderer guy) will show up and give you the three main stones at some point. Not worth wasting money on.

[Talon87]

Keiji and the wandering salesman jolteonjak asked about are two different people. Keiji is a wandering entertainer and shows up during the first story as well as during his own DLC mission.

[kusari]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Keiji and the wandering salesman jolteonjak asked about are two different people. Keiji is a wandering entertainer and shows up during the first story as well as during his own DLC mission.

... I know. Hence my saying that buying the main three stones from the salesman is a waste of money.

[Talon87]

I wasn't responding to you at all. The reply was to Lindsay. She brought up Eevee and Jigglypuff evolving so it was clear that she was talking about Keiji. You then gave her advice about Keiji ... without making it clear to her that the "he" she was so excited to meet was not in fact the same "he" jolteonjak was talking about. So I provided that very advice. To make sure she wasn't confusing the one for the other.