04-04-2017, 10:40 AM | #1 |
Marsh Badge
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FB:UPN Changes 2017
So with the recent News Update, the UPN section of FB is being handed over to the community. Shops and member lists will be transferred to UPN it seems meaning most will post here on UPN for pick-ups and RP'ing. If there are objections to having your Member post being transferred, the mods have allowed for you to request to stay on the homeboard where you are.
With that said, a lot still needs to be discussed in terms of how we're proceeding from here on out. We need both new leaders or mods to take over for the changes but that'll be something that'll wait for the time being. First we need to decide on the changes before we can elect people we trust to implement those changes. For now we need to focus on what it is we want to see in the FB:UPN section. It would seem best if tackle each topic one at a time, lest we create a mess of different topics.
--- For convenience: the link to the work file. the link to the 1st proposal file. --- Proposal #1: Basics In response to the decision of the former Fizzy Bubbles moderators to relinquish the UPN branch to the community, there has been active discussion regarding what we, as a community, should improve. The following is a list of proposals created by FB members who are active on Discord, who would like to formally present their ideas to the general community for approval or disapproval. Nothing is completely set in stone, and everything written in this document thus far is intended to be flexible instead of binding. These proposals were designed with the community in mind; hence, the writers intend for general community to review and discuss this first draft before anything is put into place. We intend to take the time and effort necessary to make sure that the community is accurately represented, and that the resulting discussion from this initial draft will hopefully lead to a cohesive framework for this new incarnation of Fizzy Bubbles. Zones and Updates: Each zone will have an administrator of its own. These Zone Admins (or ZAs) are responsible for dictating the rules for their zone and how it operates. They are able to appoint updaters when it is deemed necessary for the health of the zone. They will also oversee events within the zone such as prize distributions and monitor their Zone Updaters (or ZUs) to ensure their quality standards are met. The ideal situation is to make sure the ZA can smoothly run the zone and provide ZUs with guidance and direction when needed. If a ZA requires the help of another ZU, they will post in a ‘as of yet to be made Updater thread’ indicating they require help. They will post the minimum qualifications, expectations for the new updater and how they can apply for the position. Similarly, members interested in updating may also post in the thread indicating their interest in updating. ZAs can discuss amongst themselves, if need be, whether the noted member fulfills their requirements and if the member in question can be assigned to a zone’s ZA. When a new ZU is appointed, the ZA should monitor the first few adventures the ZU updates to ensure quality and to offer advice to their ZU. Major problems should be solved by the time this period is over, and the ZA should act more like a mentor than a commander to their ZU. Every few months, the ZA should conduct a status report on their ZUs to make sure everything's running smoothly, and providing feedback on what the ZUs are doing right. If any problems occur, the ZA should discuss this with the ZU and address ways to improve or solve them. If a ZU have not been able to resolve their initial problems in the allocated time period of ZA mentorship, then the ZA can have the option of asking the ZU to step down. If disciplinary action is required, the ZA may work with the moderators on this manner. With regards to length requirements in updating, we believe , the stipulations for both updater and updatee should be more lax. The word count required should be lower than normal, with requirements of anywhere between 200 and 250. A higher or lower word count may be instigated at a later time. Leniency should be instituted for other aspects of updating and responding, as well; in short, as long as self-updating, bunnying or god-modding is not present in the writing of updaters and updatees, and the Pokemon (and Pokemon moves) used by trainers are those listed on their official member profile, writers should be given relative freedom. When zones are reinstated, an adventuring limit, with current suggestion of up to 2 or 3 zones, should be put into place to gauge updater stress and activity levels. This should be temporary and once stress levels are properly assessed the limit could be removed based on the results. Distribution and Balance of Power: One of the major problems that occurred in FB in recent years was the lack of a balanced power structure. We propose to have a tiered system that checks and balances itself, with those higher up making sure the tiers under them are following the rules while the lower tiers of power have the means to remove those higher up if they are abusing their power. At the basis of Fizzy Bubbles is the members. Members make up the majority of the player base, and are here to participate within the RP, form friendships and create stories of their adventures. All systems in place should be at the benefit of the members, instead of harming or limiting them. Community members will have the power to approve, modify, or veto proposals from the mods or from fellow community members. As explained earlier, Zone Admins oversee a specific zone and make sure that zone runs smoothly. They have the opportunity to appoint updaters when needed, usually announcing when they are interested in hiring new ZUs. Zone Updaters are responsible for the adventures of members within the zone, driving the plot and story and as well as giving them appropriate rewards for the adventure at end. Shop Owners run a specific shop, overseeing the shop and making sure all transactions run smoothly. They are also responsible in making sure no one abuses the system for gain and try to remain unbiased in terms of luck-based shops. At the moment we are considering finding a site that has a built in, free to use, raffle system or asking a member/s to help code one for us. Members can propose new shops to the community, and if approved, they can take over as that shop’s owner. Moderators are community leaders and role models. They are primarily responsible for moderation actions such as stickying threads, editing, setting up events, disciplinary action, and policy change. While they have full discretion in terms of discipline based on the severity of the the offender’s actions, they must submit potential policy changes to the community for review before it is instigated or scrapped. If times require executive action, then the mods should not be afraid to put their foot down. However, mods should not abuse this power and ultimately should be there to serve the community and make sure that Fizzy Bubbles is well maintained. The initial moderators will be elected on a voluntary basis, either from volunteering themselves or nominating a community member. If someone is nominated, they are able to state they do not wish to be a moderator. The candidates will then have a discussion among themselves on the three most qualified members, with people able to defend others or point out their flaws, but can’t defend themselves. Once it has been narrowed down to these three, the forum will then give their results to the community to vote on. Each mod will be voted on individually, and as such must have a yes majority to be considered elected. If they do not have majority vote, then the process will start again until three mods are approved by the community. If a new mod is needed, the current mods will announce this to the community and open an application for the post. The current mods will discuss amongst themselves the top 5 candidates for the position and present them to the community. Candidates are then expected to discuss among themselves who is the most viable candidate. If a mod or another person of higher power is acting out of line, members are able to impeach them. The instigator of impeachment can create a community discussion thread to see if the mod/other in question should relinquish their power or not. Both the moderator/other and a forum admin is PM’d, so that the discussion is controlled and the member in question is aware of their impeachment. The member is given the opportunity to step down, and if they refuse, a vote of no confidence is started. If an overwhelming majority votes for impeachment, based on the severity of the member’s actions, a forum admin will remove their powers and they will return to once again being a member. A new moderator will be elected to take their place. Economy: One of the most debated topics since the UPN branch of Fizzy Bubbles became independent, we consider the Economy to be important to the health of Fizzy Bubbles. While we anticipate that there is still much debate, the following summarizes the Discord group’s consensus regarding the FB economy.. Rare Candies are being stripped of their value in terms of currency; however, they will still be used for trading as an item. As such, they will follow current restrictions as other items in terms of trading. They will also be serving their in-game purpose: leveling Pokemon. As such, the Pokemart will still offer a weekly candy to members. With the removal of candies, we propose two currencies we’d like to have in place. Pokedollars are the main currency of FB, gained primarily through role playing; this is the currency of most shops, which has the ability to purchase common goods. Cash can be traded between members, and shouldn’t be abused in terms of transfers or trades between members. A to be determined cash value can be earned from every RP post that meets the requirements set. This does not mean posts under this limit won’t be updated; it means that players who put in more time and effort will be awarded accordingly. All members will start with $3000 when they join, akin to the standard starting amount of cash you start with in-game. Pokedollars are designed to be the common currency and will be the main currency in terms of obtaining and purchasing. Coins will be the luxury currency. They are much harder to obtain, can’t be traded between members, and are used primarily in purchasing luxury goods. Coins can be obtained from sources outside of RP, such as Battles, Contests and Holidays, or as prizes and giveaways. Updaters can also give coins as part of the end-of-adventure reward, but coins themselves won’t be earned from RPing. There are talks of a Coin Zone, where members will earn coins instead of dollars, but ideally at a rate that doesn’t cause mass inflation. Coins will also be used in luxury item shops, as of yet to be determined. As of now, the Casino will most likely be scrapped while discussion is still being had on the Lucky Draw and CfP. At this moment in time it has not been decided on if trainers will be allowed to exchange currency or not, and discussion is encouraged. Pokemon: The main driving force of FB, Pokemon are important to all of us. While the Egg House will be changed, there will be new ways to get Pokemon outside of capturing them in the main zones. While these won't be as consistent as the old egg house, there will still be ways members can get new squad members without waiting it out in a zone. Members are allowed to create a post in a specially designated wishlist thread for the Pokemon they want, in order to allow people to see if anyone wants their unwanted mon before they take it to the AC or White Market. This is also to declutter the Cable Club and prevent wish posts from getting buried with all the trades. The wishlist is also meant to act as a guide for updaters to determine a reward for zones that will be more meaningful to the player, though updaters retain the ability to decide what the final reward is regardless. There are also suggestions that people can RP posts in this thread to obtain the Pokemon they wish for at an extended interval of time. Details are still being hammered out and more discussion on the manner is encouraged. In terms of obtaining from shops, the Egg House will not be the primary way of getting new Pokemon. Breeding will still be a part of Fizzy Bubbles, with much more relaxed rules on how Pokemon can breed. The main change will be the Adoption Center. Every week, a few stray Pokemon will come into the AC for members to adopt. This list is updated weekly and Pokemon are rotated out after a month of not being adopted. Additionally, members are still limited to adopting once a month. This is to make members think more heavily on whether they should adopt right away or wait and see if something else they want comes into the Center at a later point in the month. Next is a modified version of the Egg Zone proposal. Members can RP in this mini-zone, in which they find an egg and hatch it. The idea is that it is a small, mini-adventure similar to the Evolution Zone, with RP quality much more laxed than in regular zones. This is supposed to be a replacement for the old Egg House, while also preventing an overflow of Pokemon. Members will have restrictions on when they can enter, which will be determined at a later time. Lastly, in terms of obtaining, Event Eggs will be given out at certain times of the year. These Eggs will be special and free to everyone, with the proposed events for these eggs being Christmas, Easter, FB’s Birthday, and a Trainer’s Birthday. Next, in terms of mechanics, levels will be given much more freely. Pokemon will be able to gain levels faster in zones, with updaters having more freedom in giving Pokemon levels while they are being used in zones. Of course, this doesn’t mean handing out free levels for every miniscule task a Pokemon does, but having more ways to level than just battling and end of zone rewards should improve leveling progress for active Pokemon. Pokemon can also gain levels in Trainer Battles(if this feature returns to FB). Rare Candies, as stated earlier, will also be used for leveling. Pokemon left in the Daycare can stay indefinitely once dropped off, with the trainer having the ability to pick them up at any point or once they reach Lv. 100. Daycare Passes will only apply for one week instead of a Pokemon’s entire stay at the Daycare. Other than these changes, the one level per week and two Pokemon at a time will still be in place. We will also have more restrictions in place to prevent power-leveling and abusing the system. In terms of Moves, Pokemon can now be dropped off at the Move Tutor to learn any MT, TM/HM, or EM in their natural learnset. They may now also learn MT/TMs that can’t learn naturally in-game again, but with them taking longer than normal to do so; a restriction on this has yet to be discussed. Tutors can also be found in zones, offering specialty moves or freely teaching Pokemon moves, though it may require an in RP task to actually tutor these moves. Items and Shops: Shops in Fizzy Bubbles exist in order to assist members with their various needs. Trainers can freely purchase items from the Pokemart, tutor moves at the Move Tutor, store their candy/currency in their respective banks, and so forth. Zones and Events will give out rarer items as potential prizes, with these items not normally found in shops. If it comes back, the Lucky Draw will weekly give trainers random items. Also, the SoaT, if it comes back, will be changed so trainers will just exchange shards instead of trying to find a Pokemon for a riddle. Shops will be able to be proposed by the community, and will be implemented by majority vote. Old shops can come back or new types of shops can be created and used to assist in cosmetics or training. Bases: Newer members will start with a standard base in their desired location, with their a possibility of a community created list on where members can start with their new base. They will also be given a starting set of basic furniture that they can arrange themselves. The Base Shop will now be cash operated, and will primarily be used in purchasing expansions for bases and moving real estate if desired, as well as special tiles such as water or stairs. These will be much cheaper than before, and as such allows members to modify their bases at a much faster rate. This shop will also sell furniture for members to buy, as well as members being able to request custom furniture, recolor existing ones, and as well as special tiles for things such as carpet. None of this is final! It is heavily encouraged by those of us in the Discord for the community at large to discuss this before anything is put into place. Feedback is encouraged from all members, and as of yet none of this is set in stone. Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 04-10-2017 at 04:43 AM. |
04-04-2017, 10:58 AM | #2 |
Insanity
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1) The focus on RP is tricky, as RP in itself always has time periods of activity that can range from good to... terrible. The Bar atm is booming, which is good, but zones still feel a bit sluggish. We should take out less incentives to just shop farm and put more into the zones. I know the mods have tried to do this in the past, so looking on how to solidify it makes more sense. We already have a system that allows us to get currency from RPing, which is good. We could probably lax the word limit to at least 250, so there is still at least quality but people aren't trying to reach towards quantity. Of course, there should be things that you can only get exclusively from zones that people want, and Pokemon should be a major thing in obtaining from zones.
2) The Egg House is the elephant in the room. I know some people have huge problems with it existing, and I can see why. While it does discourage RP, changing the mechanics on how Eggs are obtained and hatched could have people more willingly to RP than just Egg Farm. If we had a way to gate Egg obtaining that didn't inhibit newer members, that would be ideal. Also, instead of just waiting, it would be easier for people to RP them going through an adventure with the Egg that isn't some minuscule chore like Berry Farms. Maybe an Egg Zone that's supposed to be a fast pace like the evolution zone? 3) Zones should be the obvious place to get rarer items and Pokemon. What should be zone exclusive is more of something that can be decided on once 1 & 2 are more solidified
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I fill my lungs with everything You want someone that I can't be You say it's insanity, but I say that's my life Fizzy Bubbles |
04-04-2017, 11:12 AM | #3 |
The Scientist
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,211
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You guys also need to address the current power vacuum and in what way you plan to fill and restructure it.
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04-04-2017, 11:48 AM | #4 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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That's coming later. At the moment, there aren't many candidates for mods and just choosing people who RP regularly is not a good choice. We also need someone who is capable of modding and modding well. My hope is that the discussions on various topics will help us figure out who is capable of being a good mod.
Now, that said, time to answer some questions. How to get the focus back to roleplaying? In order to answer this question it needs to be understood that a major reason why RP does not seem as incentive as just playing the shops every Monday is that the shops gave too much. The Egg House is the biggest culprit here, as it provided too many Pokemon over too short a timespan. What reason was there to go to a zone and wait however long for an adventure to finish when you can wait three weeks and get a free Pokemon? There have been attempts by the mods to push the balance, but the unwillingness to touch the most contested shops has always been an issue. Secondly, activity. People have lives, and that's very understandable, but when we don't have consistent updaters that can become a problem later on. There was a system suggested by Ex-Ad that I think we should adopt here, and that's a revamped Zone Admins system. Every zone should have an admin who oversees things, keeping track of their updators and how many people need updating. The Zone Admins would be the ones to decide to pick someone up as an updator or not; not only does this make it a little easier to get updators in times of need, but the ZA can also act like a mentor to more inexperienced updators. Keep in mind though that the RP is going to have slow periods, such as schooltime. There isn't a lot we can do about that. What restrictions, limitations or even removals do we want to see for some of the shops? I'm going to address the shops first of all, because they are the easiest things to change. Daycare Center: I think this shop is fine as it is. At the moment Pokemon leveling can be quite laborious, but if we make it easier to level up while on an adventure, I can be persuaded to let this shop go. But I think its mostly fair at the moment. Training Center: No real problems with this shop. The Salon: I'm a little split over this. On one hand, there is not much of an advantage to this shop, but gaining friendship points, at least in my mind, should be something you do in zones. However, I can understand where that might disadvantage some Pokemon who have evolutions which depend on this mechanic. If the shop stayed or left I wouldn't be too fussed, but we may need to give a rough guideline on how friendship works in an adventure. Move Tutor: I think this shop could maybe use some limitation, or make move tutors more common in zones. This is more on a level of "This could be a neat thing to have in the zones" however. Casino, Coins for Prizes: This is complicated. I think the Casino should definitely go. There have been solid, RP based alternatives given for it that I think will be better overall. CfP can probably stay, but we may want to consider looking at prices to see how we can readjust them. Rare Candies: Rare candies are a bit of an oddity. I feel like we can sort of disregard them as currency from now on, if we haven't already. I don't feel that there is a significant need for having a complicated currency system. But I do think the one candy every week is a fine and okay thing. Boutique: This is basically a shop that's there for fun. There is no reason to ever get rid of this. The PokeSpa: Honestly? We can either choose to get rid of this and make Pokeblocks a "use whenever, wherever thing" or keep it there for record keeping purposes. Either solution is fine. The Egg House: Hoo boy. What I feel about this is that it needs to be gutted. No more free eggs. The constant overabundance of Pokemon was not great for FB in the slightest. I think that eggs should be zone rewards. There is an appeal to the egg house: its essentially a gacha game. People like gachas. I'm going to be against any method of using the egg house in which you can use it without having to RP. Whether you can buy eggs with RP generated currency or get them as rewards, it should always, always be a reward for RPing. I obviously lean towards the latter. If we can keep zones more consistent, we should have no problem in these areas. I understand every RP has periods of slowness where people's lives get in the way, but I'd rather not have things go out of wack when the RP is alive. One thing I think is a good idea is that updatees will be able to turn down a Pokemon they might catch in order to get an egg; not everyone will be able to get what they want (although I don't expect it will be a common occurance) from a zone, and I think that's fair. There shouldn't be any disadvantage to newer people either. The AR is actually a good idea but it needs to be executed well. Newer people should be getting their first captures quite easily. In addition, no more trading future eggs. I am also somewhat considering making it so Pokemon higher than Rare can't be hatched, but its not something I'm convinced on yet. Shop of all Trades: There's really nothing here I think that shouldn't be in a zone somewhere. It might also become more cumbersome in the future, so I think its a good idea to axe it. IQ Shop: I have no issues against this one. What options should be opened for the zones to replace what we'll lose from the shops? I like the idea of having move tutors and most of the SoaT stuff in zones. This means people are going to have to RP in order to get these things without going too much out of their way. A central hub type zone could also be made to allow easier access. Rarer Pokemon should be more common (and require less effort to get, especially for new people), and zone rewards more plentiful. Updators should be allowed to be flexible with what they give people if they feel one reward is more appropriate than another (for example, a person whose character is a breeder should probably get more eggs, it fits!). I think most of us are competent, intelligent human beings and that we can be kind and point out mistakes others make in this regard. If we keep CfP, we should implement the Coin Zone. I will go see if I can find the draft again (the thread it was in may have been deleted however), but an RP based zone focused around coins is significantly better than the Casino. Coin Zone Draft: Spoiler: show
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Last edited by Emi; 04-04-2017 at 11:55 AM. |
04-04-2017, 11:59 AM | #5 |
Weavile Pillow
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No one seems to be using the contest stuff at all, so maybe we should just remove the shops pertaining to the contests like the Poketreats Store, PokeSpa, and Berry Shops? I know I personally consider the contest stats my Pokemon have as a formality than anything else, so I wouldn't mind scrapping those shops. If there's a real interest in bringing contests back later on, we can look at what to do for them then.
Most of the other shops I'm fine with staying, the only exceptions left would be the Coins for Prizes and the Casino. In fact, we could easily dump coins as a currency altogether and just keep track of candies and money obtained from zone RP. Any coins we already have can just be turned into either candies or Pokedollars, at our discretion. Another option would be to give players some time to spend the remaining coins, after which the two shops close down for good, and the coin currency is scrapped. As far as what to do with the Pokemon and TMs normally bought there, just make all TMs available in the Pokemart (knock a zero off the coin prices, and you have good Pokedollar prices), and the Pokemon can just go to the zones. Next is what to do with Gen 7 and for any future generations of Pokemon. There's no real need for fanfare or a whole intro event to gate their implementation, we can just switch to the current gen and its Pokedex whenever we figure out what to do with the new Pokemon/items/mechanics. Another thing to bring up is infinite PC slots. It looks as though we're revamping the Egg House so it's more regulated as to how we get them, and the Egg House was the whole reason people didn't like infinite PC slots in the first place. Now that the Egg House wouldn't be a problem, we can just go back to infinite PC slots and not worry about throwing a bunch of candies at our Pokemon to level them to 100 for the purpose of opening a new PC slot. The FB Calendar we can keep as is, though we could move it into the shop subforum if we want to call it another shop. (because it kind of is ) I personally like the IQ/Shadow shop, though we may want some discussion into the perks our Pokemon could get from IQ. Other than that, a lot of the discussions in the development subforum on BMG have what people have talked about already, so we may want to refer to those discussions in order to avoid repeating stuff.
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04-04-2017, 12:27 PM | #6 | |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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I wouldn't want to see the game become overly politicized, but by following these relatively few rules you could have the framework for a working republic: Spoiler: show Happily ignore this entire post if you're perfectly fine running the game sandbox-style.
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04-04-2017, 12:35 PM | #7 |
a quick fly cuppa
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re: talon
No disrespect, but that system is perfectly fine for running a massive game, or a county. I don't think a lesser political system would work well in a game here, though there is some agreement that the people should have their say. This is a forum RPG, not America. |
04-04-2017, 12:38 PM | #8 | |
Dance till you're dead~
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I personally believe we should scrap the TCG corner though, I don't think there's any real need for the place in an RP environment?
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04-04-2017, 12:43 PM | #9 |
a quick fly cuppa
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This is also a great point to make. The TCG system's pretty much another unnecessary block that serves little purpose other than hoarding. Cards can be simple little roleplay elements, rather than a completely seperate game within a game. I'll admit, card battles did work well enough, but then who'd seriously play FB to play cards when there's several alternatives and little roleplay involved?
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04-04-2017, 12:48 PM | #10 | |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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The important thing to me is, I want everyone to come out of this happier and healthier. It's possible. But it's going to take hard work and sacrifice on the part of those who vocally and visibly fought for the old leaders to step down. I just hope they're prepared for the monumental burden they've inherited. Meeting the demands of the playerbase, even in the simple form of once-weekly RP updates, is not easy. I hope that it is, for those who rise to the challenge.
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04-04-2017, 01:08 PM | #11 |
An actual game I made!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,145
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I'd like to open by saying, holy crap. This is certainly one way to wake me up in the morning! Alright, so, getting right into it...
First off, RP incentives. A lot of what I'm gonna say is just echoing things that have already been mentioned, but yeah- we need to make it so the shops don't make everything possible without RPing. The Evolution Zone and the Dream World are both good examples- little mini-zones that make you RP to get certain things done, be it evolving a Nosepass or getting a Hidden Ability on something. Removing evolution items from Coins for Prizes was also a step in that direction, but yes- zone rewards need to be made more worth it. First off, items. GS suggested something over at BMG that would basically bring back the concept of the old Lucky Draw from the Casino, but in a form that makes you RP to get in in the first place- basically you'd have to buy your way in, and you could only do it with your earnings from RP posts in lieu of banking them. I personally like that idea. Another idea that I believe was brought up was shops popping up in the zones themselves, thereby making you RP to even get to them in the first place Another issue is Pokémon you can get as zone rewards. The Egg House is the only means of getting Shinies as it stands, since apparently we can't catch them in zones at all. That should change. Obviously shouldn't be easy to get Shinies, but at the very least, it should be possible. Also, catching evolved Pokémon. If someone makes a zone adventure that heavily features a Weezing, and it would make sense for the member in question to catch said Weezing near the end of said adventure, then why not? As long as they got to earn it, right? One idea I have in that regard is to make it so Pokémon that a player can catch in zones cannot be higher in level than their highest-leveled Pokémon, and make it so underleveled evolved Pokémon wouldn't be an option in zones. For example, if a member's highest-leveled Pokémon is a level 53 Qwilfish, then they could potentially have the option to catch a Salamence in a zone, but not a Tyranitar or Dragonite. It's just an idea, of course, just want to give my two cents. Now, then, onto the shops. Which ones should go, and which ones should stay? Daycare: Even if things improve on the frequency of RP posts, leveling up within zones alone would still be a slower and more tedious process than it necessarily needs to be, so I'm all for this one sticking around. Training Center: Once again, I have no problems with this sticking around. Salon: This, I think, can stay, but I'd be in favor of there being more options for increasing a Pokémon's happiness. There should be a way Happiness Points can be earned in zones. Like, if your Mareanie gets kidnapped, and you rescue it, you could earn a few Happiness Points for said Mareanie in that way, assuming it's not already maxed out. Move Tutor: I like this shop... but once again, this is about trying to put more focus on RPing. Maybe the Move Tutor can be kept as is, albeit maybe with increased prices, and the removal of Rare Candies as an accepted currency, so the only accepted currency is the one you have to RP to get. In addition, I'm in favor of move tutors in zones- maybe ones with reduced prices, or ones that can teach the XD tutor moves, or teach more moves at once for the right price... whatever we go with, the idea with this is to give in-zone move tutors something that the Move Tutor shop can't offer. Casino: ...Bring on the Coin Zone! I wanted it to happen then, I want it to happen now. Gambling for coins is kind of a Pokémon tradition, so it's not exactly unreasonable for the Casino to remain, but my opinion is that the Coin Zone should be the main means of obtaining more coins. If this can be done while still keeping the Casino, great. If the Casino's got to go in order to make the Coin Zone the main means of getting coins, though, then by all means, axe it. Cable Club: Obviously this one stays. Candy Store: If we're sticking with the free Rare Candy every week (which I am in favor of), then yes, this should stick around, IMO. Pokémart: No reason not to have this. Boutique: Absolutely no reason to remove this shop. PokéSpa: My honest opinion? This should be reworked into more of a record-keeping thread like the IQ shop. Because let's be honest, why would it take a weeklong stay for a Pokémon to pop a little piece of candy in its mouth? PokéBank: No reason to get rid of this, as Pokédollars were already a step in the right direction. Adoption Center: I'm all for keeping this. Egg House: Heeeere we go. I have been a frequent customer of the Egg House, and it's helped me get a good chunk of my team, but in all honesty, I am in complete agreement with those who want to heavily restrict it. I don't think it should be removed completely, but I'm all for it being reworked so we gotta do some RPing in order to get to utilize its services. IQ shop: I'm with GS on this- this should stay, but there ought to be some talk on what sort of benefits should be tied to IQ increase, especially since one of them is something we ought to be able to do in zones anyway. Shop-of-all-Trades: I'd like this to be reworked into a mini-zone akin to the Evolution Zone- enter with a Blu Apricorn, complete a small adventure, leave with a Lure Ball. Something like that. Maybe you have to battle something or someone in order to reach the house of a Poké Ball craftsman or something. Just my opinion. Coin Exchange: If we're keeping coins as currency, might as well have a place to store them. Maybe change the coin exchanging deal so you can't exchange things for coins that you can get without RPing, if we retain the ability to exchange stuff for coins, IMO. Berry Shop: There was talk of reworking this into a berry farming kind of deal. I'd be interested in seeing that happen, personally. Coins for Prizes: If we're keeping coins as currency, might as well have a use for them. Breeding Center: No real reason to get rid of this, IMO. Pokétreats Store: I don't see why this can't stay. As for other stuff... Contests: I'd like to see these make a comeback. My Ivysaur, Beedrill, female Weedle, Umbreon, and Toxicroak are already intended to be the future Contest stars of my team. TCG: Oh my Arceus, kill it with fire, please! No disrespect to the TCG in and of itself, but... I mean, it's just... I just think we can really do without it in FB. It's to the point where I'd accept literally any trade offer for my TCG cards. Raves pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one. Infinite PC slots: My vote is for this to become a thing again, personally. Introducing new generations: I like the idea of making a big deal out of the sudden new moves and new Pokémon, but at the very least, I don't see a problem with making the new stuff immediately available while the introductory event is still ongoing. Even if not the Pokémon, then we can at least change over to Sun and Moon's Pokédex in terms of moves I probably overlooked a bunch of stuff, but here's my thoughts so far, anyway. |
04-04-2017, 01:12 PM | #12 |
Flashbacker
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,068
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While I agree that Talon's system is a little hamfisted for our needs I think it has to be said that the major disconnect people felt with how the game used to be run was a lack of community input being heard by the leadership. In this sense I feel like there are some aspects of his system that we should definitely adhere to - in that while we may want a few people in general creating policy or changes, they should always be brought to the player base as a whole for critique. We are never going to please anybody but the important thing is that people feel consulted and that their ideas are at least being heard, even if they ultimately do not see implementation.
Of course, the very fact that this thread exists is a step in the right direction in that vein. With regards to Egg House, I'd more or less echo Emi's statements. Eggs should be awarded as "now and then" adventure rewards, maybe for something a little longer or for an adventure wherein a capture doesn't happen. We shouldn't be able to buy them and we certainly shouldn't be able to obtain them for free - this was something that helped propagate the idea that FB was nothing more than a shop simulator, and if the only way to go about reliably obtaining Pokemon is to RP it already shifts a good deal of onus back onto that. |
04-04-2017, 01:50 PM | #13 |
Sayonara Bye Bye
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,003
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I wanted to make the Breeding Center more accessible, and so I did a mock-up for you guys to consider. We could potentially incorporate a 'mini' egg house into it, with 'unwanted' eggs being given away to the public a couple of times a year, or something. Anyway, here you go: Spoiler: show
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04-04-2017, 01:54 PM | #14 | |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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One of the things I'm _against_ is mandatory RP in the shops. It's one thing if people want to do it, but something like Berry Farms I feel like is missing the point. On Berries though, one thing I think might be neat, if only minor, is the ability to plant berries in zones. How this would be handled would have to be discussed, but I'm in favor of a more communal thing: you plant a berry down, knowing that its going to grow more berries for others to use. Maybe I'm hokey and have been playing too much Stardew Valley, but things like that are cute to me: knowing that one small action can help others who are on their adventures (especially new people). In addition its not tedious; the plants just grow naturally. I'm all for either nuking the TCG section or making the prices a lot better. Like, its never been needed, but I think its a fun diversion, just way too costly. If people want it gone or for it to stay, I'm not fussed either way.
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04-04-2017, 01:58 PM | #15 |
The Scientist
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,211
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The Egg House seems to be the largest problem, so I'll try to tackle that one first.
As has been stated, getting a massive number 'mon essentially for free is bad, because it devalues actually catching 'mon in your adventures. At the same time, I don't feel like it has to be as heavily restricted as some of the previous comments might suggest. I propose a bit of a compromise. Once per X length of time, a trainer may pick up an 'egg quest' for whichever zone they are adventuring in (the cooldown on this applying globally), which rewards the player with an egg of their choosing (based on the zone) at the end of it. It doesn't have to be a long adventure, but rather something relatively short and sweet. This removes the "weekly chore" feeling that the Egg house previously had in favor of actively promoting players to roleplay. Ideally, these would function as side quests to complete during an ongoing adventure. The only potential con I see to this is that such a system would certainly require updater activity to be functional.
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04-04-2017, 02:07 PM | #16 |
Insanity
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So on the topics of Eggs, I drafted this up earlier. Can't cp here but everyone can view the link.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?usp=drivesdk Only topic from feedback so far is allowing trainers to pick up an egg of common ratity 4 times a calander year with time limits in between, and with Enigmas counting as 2. Trainers at the start can choose to send them to the AC from the start before it is hatched. Thoughts?
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I fill my lungs with everything You want someone that I can't be You say it's insanity, but I say that's my life Fizzy Bubbles |
04-04-2017, 02:34 PM | #17 |
Team Mother?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 861
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Time for my 2 cents.
1. How to get the focus back to roleplaying? I'm with the general consensus on this one. Sorry to say but we do need to revamp the shops to where you don't get everything for no RPing effort. Updater incentives would be really nice too. I'm not sure whether we should implement them to have their own rewards, or if each individual they update should count towards the rewards you get for RPing. 2. What restrictions, limitations or even removals do we want to see for some of the shops? Okay, so for the most part, I don't think that the shops need to be changed that much. Daycare: I think it's fine as is. Leveling up is tedious in zones as is. Training Center: no problemos here. Maybe combine it with the Move Tutor??? Salon: As MM said, I believe happiness should probably be reflected more in Zones (since in the games, traveling with your Pokemon increases their happiness more than going to the Salon would). Other than that, I'm pretty cool with it as is. Move Tutor: Honestly, I don't have any real problems with it. Though like with the previous bit about the Salon, maybe either put Tutors in zones that teach after doing some sort of quest, as an alternative to leveling? Or maybe even as an addition. I don't mind that. Casino: .......Emi's already got this. :P:P:P Cable Club: it's good enough as is. Candy Store: Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we had some alternative candy rewards other than just the Rare Candy. Maybe have a little RP post that gets you something a bit better. Like maybe a Poffin Candy, or perhaps a Happy Candy? With smaller benefits than going to shops or Zones. Pokemart: I feel like this should have really just basic amenities, things that are already easy to get to without it being too luxurious. Hell I'd say combine it with other shops that use the same currency and do the same basic function. Bank: well, I uh, can't really comment on this one, as I haven't had enough time to use Pokedollars as is. Egg House: .......this is probably the biggest controversial issue we have. On one hand, capturing Zone Pokemon does take a long time, however, it should be also said that we do get to bond with those Pokemon more so than we do in the Egg House. It's also where we're also able to somewhat control what Pokemon we can add to our team without it being too easy in most cases. On the other hand, free Pokemon is harmful for this as a whole and is the biggest contributor of "Shop simulator". I'm with Emi in that it should be used as a reward center for RPing, with or without a Zone capture. I feel like maybe taking the egg on a little mini-adventure is a good way to hatch it, but that's just me. I do think we should keep it, though. Not get rid of it entirely. Berry Shop: Honestly, I think we should sell berries in the Pokeshop, and rid this shop as it is. I wasn't really a fan of the Berry Farm that was mentioned earlier. Actually, while on the subject of restrictions, there is something that's been on my chest that I might as well say here. I think we should lift the restrictions for starters to anything non-legendary (and Phione since I don't know if we count that as legendary or not???). I also would like to lift the restrictions on capturing shiny Pokemon. The original argument for it was that it felt less special, but to be honest, I feel like it'd be the opposite. Same goes for UPCmons. I feel like that the winners could be found in the wild (with the creators' permission of course) 3. What options should be opened for the zones to replace what we'll lose from the shops? I think a lot of what I said above answers this question. Last edited by CyberBlastoise; 04-04-2017 at 02:40 PM. |
04-04-2017, 02:35 PM | #18 |
a quick fly cuppa
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So time for my thoughts on what is currently the biggest discussion point right now: shops.
I most certainly believe that right now we have FAR too many shops. I counted and UPN has 20 of them. Twenty. So let's go through all 20 and my thoughts on them currently, in no particular order other than going down. 1: Jirachi's Casino. Kill it. I'm absolutely honest here, this must go, and for a couple of reasons. One, its purpose is to technically increase the number of coins people have, which is fine and all...but for the fact that during the earlier years of FB, we had the Monthly Stockpile, which on its closure gave numerous lucky folks an absolute killing in coins, with no feasible way to burn through them all. I mean, I have a seven floor or so base and a large number of mons with all their TMs and I still have a stupendous number of coins. I'll elaborate on coins when I get to the Coin Exchange. Two, it's gambling. Gambling isn't good for a roleplay game, and this only serves to give a greater illusion of 'shop culture', making this more a gacha than a roleplay game. 2: Daycare Centre. Keep it. This actually is fine as it is, though hold onto your hats for later. 3: The Training Centre. Scrap it. The shop has little actual utility. HMs and TM confirmation? Okay. Custom moves? Usually learned in the events you get them. Advanced moves? Ehh. What the training centre offers can be covered by the move tutor. 4: The Salon. Scrap it. Maximum happiness through abandonment in some store for 10 weeks does not constitute proper happiness through roleplay. All it gives us is a bunch of pampered Eevee brats and whatnot without developed personalities save for a nice coat. 5: The Move Tutor. Keep it. This can be expanded so much and reworked well. 6: Cable Club. Keep it. Far too important a system to scrap, and works very well. 7: The Candy Store. Keep it. This is more a service that is easy to update than a shop. 8: The Pokemart. Keep it. The mart need some rework mind you, if we're wanting to think about zone shops. It's good for the bare essentials a trainer needs. 9: Pokemon Boutique. Keep it. Pokemon cosmetics help add flair to your Flareon and zing to your Zubat, as well as the whole mega stone thing. 10: The Pokespa. Scrap it. We can work on contests after we get some infrastructure sorted out here. The spa's purpose is completely vestigial. 11: The Pokebank. Keep it. Much like the Candy Store, this is an administrative service rather than a shop. 12: Adoption Centre. Scrap it. You may be asking if I'm out my damn mind, but the adoption centre's not really needed. For new members wanting to bolster their ranks, we have people with pokemon for trade who're willing to give them away for relative peanuts. The AC's served its purpose as far as I'm concerned. 13: The Egg House. Kill it. With Fire. No other shop screams gacha like the egg house. With the current way it runs, one can go through an adventure in a year or two for one pokemon if lucky, or visit the egg house and get up to seventeen a year. This is supply and demand at its most disgusting, and this shop needs to be torn down and completely rethought. 14: Shadow Purification and IQ Shop. Scrap it. Shadow pokemon are a gimmick, as are IQ skills, and having a seperate shop to deal with gimmicks makes little sense. 15: Shop-of-all-trades. Scrap it. Who even uses this? Evo stones suffer under gacha syndrome with eggs, nobody gets ash anywhere these days, shoal items are equally extinct and flutes are handed out frequently at events. 16: The Coin Exchange. Scrap it. You heard me right, scrap it. We have three currencies in FB, and only coins are untradable. Candies are a pseudo-currency that have value as a commonplace rare, which have great utility in raising pokemon, while pokedollars have supplanted coins as the currency of choice for buying things and using services. Coins as they stand are a relic of the toxic Monthly Stockpile, and I'd be glad for us to do away with them entirely. Many of the old guard would protest at this, sitting on their seven-digit mountains, but let's be honest. The CE's TMs and pokemon can be obtained with pokedollars and actual roleplay, and items you don't have use for can be sold for pokedollars. I'll elaborate more on the fate of coins further down. 17: Berry Shop Scrap it. We never did have that trial of the berry garden, even if the Pelago as doomed as it is intended the Isle Aplenny to be that. We can rework the berry shop elsewhere. 18: Coins for Prizes. Scrap it. See the coin exchange. 19: Breeding Centre. Scrap it. A super specific shop that is all about taking A and B to make C is only taking up time and gets used once or twice a year. 20: The Poketreats Store Scrap it. lol who even makes poketreats We'll address that when we address contests. ------ So with that out of the way...how about a proposal on cutting down those shops even more? Shop 1: The Vault. Notes: We have a place for candies and a place for pokedollars, as well as a third place for coins. Why not consolidate three into one? By having one store to rule them all, we cut down on the number of links here and there, while allowing for easier access. Accounts have a candy stock and a pokedollar stock, and can withdraw/deposit/claim whenever needed. As for coins? Well... We should scrap coins as a form of currency. Coins as I said before are redundant with pokedollars, and due to their untradable nature, we'd be better off removing them, as their existence only serves to promote shop culture, which we as a group need to reduce drastically. This of course questions the coin exchange and our millions already stored. Simple. When the shop is first made, you may post quoting your Coin Exchange stockpile, which will then be converted to pokedollars at a fair rate. For those with less than 100k coins, the rate would be 100 coins - 1 pokedollar, while folk with over a million will see a rate of 1k coins to 1 dollar, for example. This also removes the CfP's purpose as a finance sink, renders the TCG palace obsolete even more and lets us actually use proper pokedollars in the base shop because, well, let's face it, a table costing more than the power to make your pokemon explode is just silly. Shop 2: The Bazaar. Notes: Taking the standard item stores to heart, the bazaar combines the pokemart, CfP, SoaT and berry shop and rolls them all into one wonderful package. Whether you're looking for some more pokeballs and potions for adventuring, seeking some TMs to bolster your team's capabilities, hunting for some new berries to plant or if you just need to sell those treasures you found, the bazaar has it all. The old CfP will incorporate pokedollars and a revised pricing system that's fair to the customer, and the setting will allow for a hint of roleplay to your purchases. Shop 3: The College. Notes: The Fizzytopian College of Further Monster Development is the pride and joy of Fizzytopia. Consisting of the campus ground and buildings, your pokemon can enrol in tutelage to learn new moves and hone their own. This place will combine the daycare centre, move tutor and training centre as well as your shadow pokemon studies and IQ needs into one expansive location, with all the effects of each of the four stores. The daycare would be less daycare and more a lesson in survival skills and knowledge, ensuring those who leave have proper experience rather than those pansies at the daycare centre with their 'love and caring treatment' and alleged use of hormones. Shop 4: The Nursery. Not too far from the college is this place, run by the best poke-medics and carers. You'll find this combines the defunct egg house with the salon, the breeding centre and a revised adoption centre to give you all you need to raise your little ones with care and attention. The egg house will most certainly not dish out free eggs though, this is a nursery, not a charity shop. The salon fits this locale best as the pokemon are treated to helping out the little ones, making them feel better about themselves, as well as providing them with an insight towards parenthood should they choose to do so. Additionally, this would also be where we would grow berry trees to get more berries, once we sort out our berry system. Shop 5: The Concourse. What town centre would be complete without a forum for others to discuss and do business with each other? Taking the cable club and boutique together, the concourse would be the place for trainers to trade with each other and to obtain small trinkets and oddities as well as accessories for themselves and their pokemon. Serving as the base for these things, the concourse brings the community to you, and you to the community. |
04-04-2017, 02:47 PM | #19 | |
An actual game I made!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,145
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Agreed completely on removing the inability to catch Shinies. Shinies, as it currently stands, are exclusive to the Egg House, which I think we can all agree is not good. I mean, granted, I still feel like the Shiny Slowbro I got from the Egg House is pretty special to me, but the point still stands- Shinies should be available in zones. We should trust updators to not just hand out Shinies like sparkly pieces of candy. Also agreed on the idea of being able to catch UPC winners if the winner approves. |
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04-04-2017, 03:09 PM | #20 | |
Sayonara Bye Bye
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,003
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I love all of this. I'm working on a write-up of the Nursery now, but I'm treating it more like a mini-zone (like the Evolution Zone) than a shop. In this way, I think we could also tie in Alto's Egg Quest idea, potentially, which was also pretty popular.
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04-04-2017, 04:41 PM | #21 |
An actual game I made!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,145
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Gonna just offer a few more thoughts, this time in regards to IQ. Not the most pressing issue at the moment, but it's where my mind is at at the moment.
1: Gummis. As it stands right now, Gummis are only available from holiday giveaways. I think they ought to be a bit more accessible than that, personally. Maybe expand the PokéTreats Store so that you can make Gummis there as well. Or even buy Gummis for Pokédollars. 2: Make it so any Gummi can be fed to any Pokémon regardless of type, and feeding a Gummi to a Pokémon with a corresponding type would mean a bigger IQ boost. This is how it works in the PMD series, if I'm remembering it right. Basically, you could feed a Red Gummi to a Weezing to boost its IQ by 1, and feeding it a Pink Gummi would result in a +2 IQ boost. 3: Mysterious Gummis. This one is a minor thing, but it's always kinda irked me a little bit- maybe we could change the name. Their in-game counterparts are called Mysterious Gummis... in the Japanese version. The English name is Wonder Gummi. Again, this one isn't a big deal- in fact, it's probably the lowest priority of anything I'm saying here- just wanted to include that in here. 4: The IQ benefits. For the most part they're OK, IMO- Gummi Bomb is a fun attack, the extra STAB and increased ability to avoid status conditions, those are useful. Defensive Shield, I guess it's OK- it's not one of my favorite attacks, but it's still fine. BUT. The bonus as far as catching evolved Pokémon? IMO, we should be able to do that by default. Not easily, but it should be an option independent of IQ level. Point being, that particular bonus, IMO, shouldn't be necessary at all, and we should find a suitable alternative. My suggestion? Pokémon with that IQ level will more easily level up in zones- small battles that wouldn't normally result in a level-up on their own would now actually be able to result in a level-up for that Pokémon, and battles that would normally result in a level-up could now result in two, something like that. Just an idea, something that I'm trying to adapt from the Affection bonuses in the Gen VI and VII games- this'd be as close as we can get to the Exp. Point multiplier, IMO. |
04-05-2017, 07:43 AM | #22 |
Marsh Badge
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So my thoughts and suggestions on everything so far.
I kind of led people on with the first question by stating a focus needs to go back to roleplaying rather letting others state their own opinion. Sorry for that but at least everyone seems to be in agreement anyway. The biggest issue is of course the vast amount of shops and our weekly chores (yes; chores) of receiving items rather than earning them. From what I gather, everyone’s in agreement with restricting shop hand-outs and increasing the rewards from zones and roleplaying – with various ideas and suggestions on how to approach that. Egg House: This has been mentioned as the biggest problem by more than one member and I agree wholeheartedly. You can basically get a new Pokémon every 3 weeks, which is roughly 17 Pokémon a year. An adventure, which can only give out 1 Pokémon at the end, may last longer than a year considering the current circumstances. One option is to increase the time-lapse but I much prefer the other idea that was mentioned in that we couple it to a roleplaying reward. My preference for this is to simply state milestones in an adventure that unlocks a pick-up, or to have it be something one can purchase from Pokédollars you receive at a high price akin to Mega Stones. The other option I read was to get an ‘Egg Zone’ in which players RP to get an egg and hatch it, similar to the Dream World, Evolution Zone and Berry Fields. Just want to say that I’m personally not in favour of this. While I do think we should involve some form of RP’ing I’m not in favour of creating a whole extra zone that’s dedicated to just the obtaining and hatching of eggs. It sounds way too tedious and emphasises the (un-)importance of obtaining new eggs to my mind. Just have it be a high-cost purchasable using roleplaying-currency and force your buyers to RP the pickup post is enough I think. In addition, I think eggs should be given out as zone rewards similar to how Pokémon are done. It is, basically, a Pokémon the player gets - just in a different form than usual that requires more time or roleplaying before getting a new party member. And yes, new players should have just as much access to the Egg House as older players. Adoption Centre: Scrap it. Practically the only reason this exists is because of the mass amount of Pokémon that are obtained at the Egg House. If we curb the influx of Pokémon from the Egg House than I think this will die on its own. The few Pokémon that could theoretically be dropped off might as well be kept by their trainers until they can trade it, or simply release it. Breeding Centre: I’ve never bothered to look at this shop or planned a use for it. I care little for it and wouldn’t mind seeing it go. If others want to keep it that’s fine by me but I want to point out that I’d prefer the rules for this place not become too relaxed lest it becomes the new ‘Egg House dilemma’ like we have now. But otherwise; scrap it. TCG Corner: It could be fun gimmick if it was fully running with players but it would still be a gimmick. We have no players, no referees or even new and current TCG cards. I say we simply scrap it altogether and stop handing out cards for this place. Contests: Another fun gimmick we could do but a gimmick I don’t want to look into until the rest is running. Scrap it for now. Pokétreats Store: With no contests we have no use for this other than for the Feebas evolution - who already has an alternative evolution method. Scrap it. Stop handing out Pokéblocks. PokéSpa: See Pokétreats Store Salon: Happiness (and affection) is something we should easily be able to work out a system for that grants someone points for interacting with their Pokémon. Heck, saying that ‘for every zone post where the trainer and Pokémon interact, the Pokémon in question receives a point’ would already require more effort from the player than it does now and is probably a slow enough method. I also wouldn’t be opposed to having Visionary Glade posts about the Pokémon in question granting happiness points. Jirachi’s Casino: Scrap it. It’s something that requires too much work to keep running. Add to that, it was meant to be a fun little distraction and a way to obtain more coins. I’d much prefer we simplify the system on FB and scrap one (or two) of the currencies in use; the coins mostly. Anything one could previously buy with coins they can now purchase with Pokédollars. We’d stil have to set up a fair conversion system so people who currently own coins can either quickly blow them on the CfP or get Pokédollars and rare candies for them. Coin Exchange: See Jirachi’s Casino Coins for Prizes: See Jirachi’s Casino Possibly transfer some of these items to the Pokémart where people can purchase them using roleplaying-earned currency. Pokémon Boutique: It is not something the mods have to interfere with as it runs on its own. As long as we have people dedicated to running it it’s fine. It’s a nice little extra we can keep at a low running cost. Pokémart: Keep it. We need a general store for our characters to use. Propose that at some time later in the future we discuss the items that can be bought here as well as their prices. Candy Store: Depends how you perceive Rare Candies. Considering it’s become a type of currency that older members have triple digit balances I guess we might as well keep this one as is. Cable Club: Keep it. I have no problems with this place and I think we should retain the ability to trade Pokémon and items somewhere. Daycare Centre: In an optimal world we’d only receive levels for our Pokémon through roleplaying. This is why I was for scrapping this. Realistically speaking I don’t think that’s possible though. Keep it as is for now but I propose we look into this again in a few months and see how better to balance it out with the new FB; either increasing the amount of levels gained, decreasing it, being able to deposit more Pokémon, or less, or the ability to have to RP for it to get a bigger reward. Again; to look at in a few months’ time. Move Tutor: See Daycare Centre (If someone has an idea for coupling this to roleplaying rewards without having to roleplay more I’m all ears.) Training Centre: See Daycare Centre (Combine it with the Move Tutor. It would be much simpler if we streamlined things and combined what we could. Both shops teach moves, they can stay together even if the rules and prices for them differ.) Berry Shop: It’s just an item you can buy like any other in the Pokémart, plain and simple. Though I wouldn’t be opposed to restricting the rarer berries to a ’Berry Field Zone’ if that idea is properly formulated. Berries are nice, small hand-held items that Pokémon can use in adventures to add flavour to the story. There are various moves that rely on held items (such as Trick), or berries in general (Natural Gift), and providing trainers with a small but consistent input of berries to use in zones might help with that. Shop-of-all-Trades: Ugh, shards, apricorns and shoal items. It’s a gimmicky thing. Instead of obtaining the item itself, players essentially get a ‘token’ and have to do something else to obtain the item as a reward. It’s much simpler if we combine this with the Pokémart and have the apricorns or shards enact as a type of voucher players exchange with the shop to get the item in question. So the ’Pokéball Maker’ and ’Treasure Hunter’ are part of the larger Department Store essentially. It's just too much of a runaround the way it is now. Shadow Purification and IQ shop: I don’t like either of the two gimmicks or the extra input that’s required for the players to keep track of another stat and for the staff to uphold another shop. Shadow Pokémon I can understand but the IQ is way too gimmicky, useless, unnecessary and frustrating to keep track of. Please, can we get rid of that concept instead of trying to make it work? Birthday Calendar: I got bored with keeping track of my Pokémon’s birthday. With all the give-aways we have, I find the ’obtaining more extra things for our Pokémon if you happen to be there are the right time of the year’ to be unnecessarily tiresome. Keeping it at one birthday for the trainer simplifies it and we can change the rewards for it if needed. Plus, it's 'another' thing that constantly requires mod oversight. Streamline it basically. ---- As for the topic on how to improve our zones: One thing I’d like to see is a proper guideline for what updators can hand out. Not strict rules but a general idea of what’s kosher. I mean if we get a whole new troupe of updators, they might all have different ideas of how much they might give their players which could create an uneven balance. For guidelines I just want something simple like ’X amount of Zone Replies (not intros) with X amount of words in X amount of real time, would entitle a player to roughly X amount of levels, X items and/or X Pokémon’. I don’t know about others but I want to be able to give out more to the people on Phantom Isle. In the games, players come across items on the ground all the time – something simple like a Pokéball or held item – so why can’t we do that as well to increase the amount of zone rewards? Levels should be handed out more freely as well. If a Pokémon overcame a tough obstacle they should level up in the zone, not necessarily just one level either. But again; we also need a good guideline to ensure even hand-outs across all the zones. EDIT: Now I recall what it was. Possibly an unfavourable opinion but I vote that for now players can only adventure in one (active) zone at a time. There are a few reasons for this; first, more updators in theory means that more updatees can be handled, but this is not the case if every updator was in a different zone and everyone decided to visit every island - that just means every updator essentially has to update the entire community! We need a small restriction so everyone, old and new players, can have the same amount of (active) adventures. Second, since we're starting afresh here and hopefully growing with a new influx of members, we still need to balance everything and make sure we have enough updators for all the players. The limit of 'one' is just meant to slow things down until we reach a steady state. Once we have enough updators we can up the number to two adventures, or three, or higher. Essentially the number of (active) adventures changes over time depending on the updator-updatee balance. Now though, until everything is properly sorted out, we need a limit of 1 to start with. For those in more adventures than one; they can simply place the others on hold until the restriction is lifted or they finished their current (active) adventure. ----- Other topics that were discussed: New moderators/admins: Yes! I know we need new ones but the Discord chat has been tugging back and forth between this topic and the discussion of the shops. To explain the thoughts of the few who wanted to wait with discussing this: it’s preferable to see how the discussion goes and decide people based on that. I’d much rather we know who we’re re-instating based on those facts, rather than electing people now only to find out later that their ideas differ greatly from the community’s majority opinion. So for those who felt it necessary to hammer in that we need look at new moderators as well: we know! It’s not that we didn’t forget that fact, it’s that we made the conscientious choice of waiting with its discussion. Relaxing word limit to 250: I don’t think 300 words is a tough update-minimum and I think it could stay. I’m okay with 250 words as minimum though but definitely nothing lower than that. Zone Admin: Emi mentioned my idea earlier and it’s one I would like to see implemented if I can get the backing for it. It’s a low-tier responsibility position that removes a lot of the burden from the moderators themselves. The more we can get things running without the need for constant mod approval or interference, the better. Having Zone Admins who in a sense ‘own’ the zone - ensure it’s running, hire new updators if needed and make up an application test for their zone – might help streamline the process of getting new updators over time. The idea: Spoiler: show Coins: As mentioned above, I want to scrap at least one of the existing currencies that are in circulation and streamline purchases. I think the Casino should go and that players should be allowed to exchange the last of their balance for items, Pokédollars and/or candies. Basically what GS suggested. Updator Rewards: Just more Pokédollars and maybe some extra purchase options in the Pokémart. This is simply to remove ‘another’ form of currency that is going around and I think it can be simplified. GenVII: Yes, let’s just introduce it and be done with it. I don’t need a special event for this per se. Infinite PC Slots: Throwing it out there; I’m against the initial high number of party slots we have and I’m definitely against ‘limitless’ PC slots. This is of course all very dependent on how often new Pokémon end in circulation but I’d much prefer new players start with a low number of party slots (say; 6 or 10) and then loosen up the rules on obtaining new party slots (say; +1 for 2,000 words written in a zone adventure, +2 for 5,000 words in a zone adventure, +1 for every Lv.50 Pokémon or higher, +2 for every Lv.100 Pokémon or higher, purchasable at the Pokémart, whatever). The exact rules would still have to be hashed out, and if it so happens that someone might lose party slots because of this implementation then I think their ‘extra’ Pokémon should just be put on hold until they get the right amount of party slots, rather than forcing that player to trade them away and lose them. We could always look back at this in a few months and see what a good new balance is, but I’m against re-instating limitless PC slots immediately. Contests: Not a direct priority but once the game is up and running and someone wants to design its implementation (without affecting too much of the FB state we have at the moment) I think we should go for it. Gyms: If we’re going to have contests come back I’d personally also like to see gyms make a return, either as part of the zones or as players taking up the symbolic role.
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Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 04-05-2017 at 09:15 AM. |
04-05-2017, 08:17 AM | #23 |
An actual game I made!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,145
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Definitely all for Gyms returning- been wanting to see that happen for a good while now.
As for the Adoption Center, I feel like it could still have its uses, though you make a good point in that the Egg House as it currently stands is the major reason this shop sees use. My thinking is we could keep it initially and see if it sees much use after we make the other changes we want to make. If it turns out we still need it, then it stays. If it just sits there gathering dust, we axe it. Also all for merging the Training Center and Move Tutor. I see people confuse the two shops from time to time, and not without reason, considering the two shops serve very similar purposes. Quickest and most logical fix would be to merge them into one shop for all your move teaching purposes. As for the Daycare, I believe I once voiced the idea of spending Pokédollars to be able to gain more levels in a single week. That'd be a nice way to tie it to roleplay- the more you RP, the more Pokédollars you get, and the more levels you can get for your Pokémon in a given week. I don't think the Pokétreats Store should be scrapped altogether. Maybe put on hold until we can get around to Contests, because when those become a thing again, we're gonna need to be able to make Pokéblocks. I also suggested that the store be expanded to make Gummis- I personally disagree with scrapping IQ. I think it can be made to work. |
04-05-2017, 09:08 AM | #24 |
プラスチック♡ラブ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
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First off congratulations on taking back FB. As much ire as I have for some of this game it's still important to UPN and holds importance for me. I'm at work right now so I can't dispense the specific advice is like to but I wanted to just give you a broad tip: take your time. I know this is all new and exciting but you have a lot of things that need to be sorted out. Focus on game structure and member retention first, then you can retool all the extras. It will be important to handle the power vacuum problem ASAP. I'd be glad to help with sorting moderators and granting power with Kuno approval of course.
You might also consider negotiating a deal with Tess over Serebii and BMG, at least to stay affiliated so you can attract new members. I'll post with more specific thoughts and some personal experience later but I just wanted to give my regards and wish you luck. |
04-05-2017, 09:32 AM | #25 |
Silver LO
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Former and possibly returning FBer here. I echo Jer-bear's sentiments both on congratulations and on taking time when needed to feel out how things work. I think Raves put out a nice, solid structure to start with, and that can be a good base to build from. I also like the idea of opening up the breeding options significantly to make it a legit thing and not just pretty much glorified filler like it's been lately.
I also wanted to bring up the idea of, as something like sidequest rewards and possible holiday promotions, an Egg Pass that would allow you to procure an Egg at the Nursery and do a mini-quest to hatch. Perhaps you repay the Nursery for incubating the egg for you by doing an errand or some odd jobs or somesuch, bringing in the RP element as a requirement to hatch eggs. I'd also personally propose that shiny Pokemon would be unobtainable through eggs (unless said egg is obtained from the breeding centre), meaning shinies would be almost exclusively tied to having to adventure to catch them. As waa brought up before, the ability to catch an evolved Pokemon shouldn't be IQ linked, but something that's just innately possible (though potentially difficult, depending on the Pokemon. A Kakuna shouldn't be much more difficult to catch than a Weedle, but a Gyarados would be leagues more difficult to catch than a Magikarp). As a personal thing, I'd support bringing back the ability to teach any TM to any Pokemon, within a level of reason. Possibly even expanding that to basic move tutors (though possibly at a premium). As it stands, older members often have a large amount of moves that were ones fully legitimate, and while of course older members have advantages over newer ones, with more resources, experience, etc, I feel like TM-wise, we should make that a more level playing field. Plus, that was one of the big charms that initially brought me to FB when I first started, the idea Pokemon could learn "unnatural" moves and you could have a story behind it. I'm all for UPC Pokemon being introduced in the wild and in eggs (with creator's permission). In fact, I encourage it. It adds more legitimacy to the idea that, in the FB world, this Pokemon truly exists. I think it's a great way to add more dimension to the fizzby world. A final thing: make all eggs equal. There's no reason why a Psychic egg should be any different from a Normal Egg, and even Dragon and Ghost are populous enough types by now that there should be ease splitting the more commons from the rarer ones. And Enigma Eggs especially, since they could contain literally almost anything, shouldn't be more heavily restricted than other eggs just because a quite slim chance of obtaining a fossil (which, let's face it, should be introduced into their native types' eggs anyway). A bit jumbled, I apologise, but roughly here's what I think about all this. Cheers. |
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