Pokemon Black and White. Are you getting it?

[EpicScizor]

Well, I made this thread to ask you guys if you are getting this when it comes out in the USA. I for one, don't really like most of the pokemon, but I'm getting the game anyway. Because I am just that awesome of a pokemon fan.

So what is your opinion on the games and are you getting them or not?

[Blastoise]

Well, I just ordered an import copy of White. So...uh, yeah.

[Copygoo]

I shouldn't say I love all of the new Pokemon, but there are plenty that I adore. So, yeah. I'm going to get White.

[Ethereal]

Originally Posted by Copygoo

I shouldn't say I love all of the new Pokemon, but there are plenty that I adore. So, yeah. I'm going to get White.

This, but I'm getting Black.

[Cyprus]

+1 for Black, and though I don't love all the Pokemon, and am a little disappointed that they don't have any evolutions for older Pokemon that could really use one, this was always my main gripe about the last Gen or so. It's refreshing to see over a hundred -brand new- faces in the mix, and you have to give them credit for that. It also makes me happy to see that they are -listening- to what fans want. Repeatable battles, Global Trade, and it looks like they're trying to add sort of a co-op element with the High Link system as well. All things that will hopefully keep Pokemon strong for more Gens to come!

[Talon87]

>are listening to what the fans want

NO, THEY ARE NOT. -_-; And that's precisely why I'm not going to get it.

[Jerichi]

Just because they haven't fulfilled your desires doesn't mean that they haven't listened to others, Talon.

[Talon87]

If you look at most of the desires voiced by Cyprus, you'll soon realize that they're all old fulfillments.

Repeat battles? Welcome to Generation 2.
Global Trade? Pretty sure we saw that happen in 2006/7 with Generation 4.

Generation 5 has brought very little to the table to address a wide berth of fan demands. And how can you say "just because they haven't met [mine]" like I'm some whiny exception to the rule when you know full well what the community-wide demands include!? Things like:

• much improved graphics. Perhaps even a main console game?
  • GameFreak's response has been, "No, Pokémon belongs on handhelds and we like the graphics. Request denied."
  • Which is pretty stupidly selfish of them. Fans have been begging for a main console title since 1st Gen. Saying that Pokémon belongs on handhelds because that's where it started is about as retarded as saying that Mario, Metroid, and Mega Man all belong on main consoles because that's where they started. Yet I think New Super Mario Bros., Metroid Fusion, and Mega Man Zero would like to have a word with GameFreak if that's the case. And insisting that it keep a graphical style which has been unpopular with many fans ever since the first generation of games, just because that's the way they like it, is sound reasoning for "this is our company and we'll do with it whatever we goddamn well please" but it's poison to your argument that they give a shit what the fans think and place the fans before their own selfish interests.
• a Pokémon MMORPG?
  • GameFreak's response is covered above.
  • Too bad a Pokémon MMORPG would fit right at home with bringing the television show to life. Too bad this is another of the community's strongest desires we've seen voiced again and again and again for five, six years now.
• do away with the HM system
• make self-trading easier
• make it easier to trade items and other non-creatures
• allow dump transfers from old paks to new ones instead of forcing Pal Park-like concepts onto us

I could keep going, but I'd be re-iterating my thread from a few months ago. The point is that these complaints aren't restricted to me nor even to a vocal minority. I read posts on multiple Pokémon forums and see these complaints. I talk to softcore Pokémon gamers in real life and hear these complaints. I read video game news websites and see the columnists comment on these lacking features. The view is nigh-on ubiquitous.

And you have the nerve to chide me like a whiny child and say, "Just because you haven't gotten what you wanted ..." Give me a break. You know as well as I do that the fanbase hasn't gotten what the fanbase wants.

All they appear to have done right with Gen5 is:

• listened to the fans' requests for better stories. Gen5 looks to have one of the best Pokémon stories ever.
• keep doing right those things which you have already done right in previous generations

[Blastoise]

Originally Posted by Talon87

I am Saint Ignatius, listen to me bitch

Yeah, we all read the gen 5 thread and realized that nothing short of a handjob from Satoshi Tajiri would appease you. Don't let that stop you from complaining about how Black and White is THE ULTIMATE BETRAYL, though.

[Talon87]

Steady! No need for personal attacks. I was forced to defend my position so I did. I didn't want to bring that thread back up and the proof's in the brevity of my original post. If you don't like what I had to say in the second post, then object to it based on facts and not personal attacks. For example, you could list some of the ways in which you believe GameFreak have shown with Gen5 that:
(a) they give a shit what the fans think, and
(b) they are taking the necessary steps to make their games meet the fans' expectations

[Emp]

How unethical for you to download the rom with no intentions of purchasing the game, Talon ;;

make self-trading easier

It's apparently possible to trade 3 Pokemon at a time now. Whilst I don't think they're solely gearing their developments around their fanbase - which I think would be a bad idea - each gen seems to bring some good and not so good new features.

[Talon87]

I only did so to see if it would persuade me to purchase the game. To discover if maybe I was wrong and needed to eat crow. But no: I was right, at least for myself. No crow eating necessary. I played through the third city and put the game down for good. Haven't touched it ever since.

By contrast, I logged over 100 hours in my Japanese rom for Heart Gold, bought the American version on Day 1, and have logged over 200 hours on it since. So it's not like the language barrier alone had me putting down Black. It was disappointing in many other arenas. (Most notably the graphics which, due to the DS's small screen resolution and BW's insistence on scaling up/down every object in real time, actually makes Gen5 uglier than Gen4.)

I sincerely hope that those of you who believe yourselves to have many good reasons to expect happiness with BW find that happiness. Those of you who do not and are merely praying that I'm a lunatic? You'll find out the disappointment for yourselves soon enough. BW does some things right, but it does too many wrong to be considered an evolutionary step in the franchise.

[Concept]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Spoiler: show

If you look at most of the desires voiced by Cyprus, you'll soon realize that they're all old fulfillments.

Repeat battles? Welcome to Generation 2.
Global Trade? Pretty sure we saw that happen in 2006/7 with Generation 4.

Generation 5 has brought very little to the table to address a wide berth of fan demands. And how can you say "just because they haven't met [mine]" like I'm some whiny exception to the rule when you know full well what the community-wide demands include!? Things like:

• much improved graphics. Perhaps even a main console game?
  • GameFreak's response has been, "No, Pokémon belongs on handhelds and we like the graphics. Request denied."
  • Which is pretty stupidly selfish of them. Fans have been begging for a main console title since 1st Gen. Saying that Pokémon belongs on handhelds because that's where it started is about as retarded as saying that Mario, Metroid, and Mega Man all belong on main consoles because that's where they started. Yet I think New Super Mario Bros., Metroid Fusion, and Mega Man Zero would like to have a word with GameFreak if that's the case. And insisting that it keep a graphical style which has been unpopular with many fans ever since the first generation of games, just because that's the way they like it, is sound reasoning for "this is our company and we'll do with it whatever we goddamn well please" but it's poison to your argument that they give a shit what the fans think and place the fans before their own selfish interests.
• a Pokémon MMORPG?
  • GameFreak's response is covered above.
  • Too bad a Pokémon MMORPG would fit right at home with bringing the television show to life. Too bad this is another of the community's strongest desires we've seen voiced again and again and again for five, six years now.
• do away with the HM system
• make self-trading easier
• make it easier to trade items and other non-creatures
• allow dump transfers from old paks to new ones instead of forcing Pal Park-like concepts onto us

I could keep going, but I'd be re-iterating my thread from a few months ago. The point is that these complaints aren't restricted to me nor even to a vocal minority. I read posts on multiple Pokémon forums and see these complaints. I talk to softcore Pokémon gamers in real life and hear these complaints. I read video game news websites and see the columnists comment on these lacking features. The view is nigh-on ubiquitous.

And you have the nerve to chide me like a whiny child and say, "Just because you haven't gotten what you wanted ..." Give me a break. You know as well as I do that the fanbase hasn't gotten what the fanbase wants.

All they appear to have done right with Gen5 is:

• listened to the fans' requests for better stories. Gen5 looks to have one of the best Pokémon stories ever.
• keep doing right those things which you have already done right in previous generations

I frequent SPPfail (by which I do mean sections outside of the ASB), which is one of the larger boards out there, and you're pretty much the only person I've ever heard mention most of these things. The only one I've ever heard from anyone else at all is the main console version, which comes up every now and again but is hardly "RAEG THEY MUST GIVE US CONSOLE VERSION RAEG". The main bitching I've heard has been hatred of the new designs, but that's mainly off people like me who grew up with gen 1 and gen 2 and didn't like the gen 3 designs initially (which have grown on me although I still don't like them as much as gen 1).

In response to the thread, I'm probably going to pick up white version. Not my fave gen in terms of pokemon design granted, but three and four grew on me and I've heard good things about the story and such.

[Blastoise]

Originally Posted by Talon87

For example, you could list some of the ways in which you believe GameFreak have shown with Gen5 that:
(a) they give a shit what the fans think, and
(b) they are taking the necessary steps to make their games meet the fans' expectations

u r so gud at logical fallacies

Only in your universe is selling 2.6 million copies in two days proof that Nintendo isn't catering to their fans. But oh em gee they didn't listen to a handful of nerds on the Internet, Pokemon is RUINED FOREVER

Okay, point by point I guess:

HURR CONSOLE RPG

Pokemon Colo/XD. Next question?

This isn't a particularly hard question to answer if you look at how Pokemon is designed (emphasis on social interaction/trading). With a console you lose a good portion of the social aspect without getting much in return.

HURR MMORPG DURR

1. MMOs are games as services, while Nintendo makes games as products. You can certainly change a company to go the service route (as Blizzard did with WoW), but there's a lot of financial and material risk involved with comparatively little payoff. Contrast this to how the Pokemon games are relatively cheap to make ($4-5 million for a "high-end" DS game is the number I've seen thrown around) and sell millions of copies sight-unseen and the smart choice is obvious.

2. In the west, you have to compete with WoW. In the east, you have to compete with a shitload of F2P MMOs and an audience conditioned to treat them as products with a shelf life of only a few months or so. MMOs also suffer from massive social stigma (far beyond that of most "normal" games), which runs counter to Nintendo's oft-stated desires to expand the gamer base. Why beat yourself bloody for no gain?

3. As designed mechanically, Pokemon would not make for a very compelling MMO (unless you consider someone /w you "noob fag ninja'd my Groudon" compelling). Any viable Pokemon MMO, then, would only be superficially similar to the games. I think this pretty much means that a Pokemon MMO would be a case of people asking for something, but then getting it and realizing it wasn't really what they wanted in the first place.

HM HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR

According to people who've played past the third gym HMs aren't nearly as onerous as in previous entries. It's something, I guess.

TRADING POKEMON WITH MYSELF (don't fuck with this guy)

Since a lot of Pokemon's staying power has to do with social interaction (e.g. trading with other people to get the Pokemon you need instead of "OMG YOU NEED TO PLAY 15 BAJILLION POKEMON GAMES TO COMPLETE A POKEDEX, WHAT THE FUCK"), I wouldn't count on this. Let's be honest, we hyper-competitive neckbeards who trade Pokemon (WITH OURSELVES) are a minority.

TRADING ITEMS HURRRRRRRRRRRRRG

See TRADING POKEMON WITH MYSELF. Trading isn't intended for you to use your DS as a Wal-Mart distribution center for cloned masterballs.

PAL PARK DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Eh, maybe. This clearly doesn't bother me (or anyone else) as much as it bothers you though.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Blastoise

u r so gud

Quit reading here. Saw something about "don't bother telling me" as I deleted the rest of your text out of the quote. Seriously: what part of "no need for personal attacks" don't you understand? If you don't wish to or are otherwise incapable of engaging in civil discourse, then why should you expect the favor returned?

[Lady Kuno]

As much as I'd like a Pokemon MMO, Blast hit the nail on the head 100% with that one.

[Rangeet]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Quit reading here. Saw something about "don't bother telling me" as I deleted the rest of your text out of the quote. Seriously: what part of "no need for personal attacks" don't you understand? If you don't wish to or are otherwise incapable of engaging in civil discourse, then why should you expect the favor returned?

What part of "having the ego the size of a elephant is bad" don't you understand? Also, what part of "read the whole post plz" don't you understand?
Talon, I know I'm not really anybody to say stuff about you, but from the day you got provoked by Zora in the TO, I waited for a slight opportunity to say this to you.
I think I'll be getting Black on the ROM, but in English, tyvm. And I like this game, but I hate the pokemon. Meh.

[Talon87]

If having a level of self-respect which disallows being treated so spitefully and rudely is "having an ego the size of an elephant," then I'll proudly wave the pachyderm flag. I'm not going to read someone's posts who displays ZERO respect for me. I'd have to be a fool to do so.

[Rangeet]

Respect goes both ways. Not reading his post is showing zero respect for him, too.


Also, that's what he does.

[JustAnotherUser]

Talon, do you know something? I play pokemon because, quite frankly, I enjoy the games an incredible amount. I don't care about tiny things like what you've listed - if you think Game Freak sucks so much, stop getting the games. And stop the constant Gen V hate; you're opinion is not the word of god. You hate Gen V. We get it. I personally like some of the designs. I'd gladly buy it.

[Concept]

Guys, this argument isn't worth the effort, can we just get back to the thread at hand.

[Emp]

Blast is about the only person who went the right away about challanging Talon's opinion

Anyways, it's no substitute for sugimori but we have some official artwork here


COLOUR CHANGE!


AAAH!!! REAL MONSTERS

[Blastoise]

Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite

Blast is about the only person who went the right away about challanging Talon's opinion

Talon is perfectly entitled to his worthless opinions so long as those opinions are not used with the royal "we".