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Old 02-26-2010, 06:39 AM   #26
iAmDewgong
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Zora - Male (?) Jolteon
Signature attack: Mean Passtrick

Jolteon can use the moves Mean Look, Trick and Baton Pass at once. In that order. However he always goes last and he is very weak, defensewise. Also Trick is worthless in the ASB. :c
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:55 PM   #27
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...Entei got Flare Blitz.
Thoughts?
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:56 AM   #28
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Entei is still useless, just slightly less(?). Compared to other useful Fire types like Arcanine and Houndoom, it is considerably less useful.

On the physical spectrum, it lacks the movepool type diversity Arcanine has. It lacks the useful Abilities like Flash Fire and Intimidate, which hurts because Entei has almost no chance at switching in and isn't good enough to switch in against most enemies. On the special spectrym, it lacks the movepool type diversity of Houndoom by a large amount. At the same time, it's typing is vastly inferior and again leaves Entei almost no chance of getting a good switch in.

Adding Flare Blitz changes almost nothing as it doesn't give Entei enough to really be useful. If they added like Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Thunder Fang, and Crunch, then Entei might be useful. But purely Flare Blitz is just not nearly enough to make it go from crap to usable.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:48 AM   #29
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>it lacks the movepool type diversity of Houndoom

Wut?
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:02 AM   #30
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Houndoom has a lot of moves of a lot of different types from Fire, Dark, and a good long list of useful, powerful attacks of varying types. Arcanine has a decent number of moves of varying types, but even among the moves of the same type, they have varying effects and can still be useful (i.e. Extreme Speed and Body Slam are both useful in different ways). Meanwhile, Entei has SHIT. It has Fire moves, Solarbeam, and maybe another handful of decent attacks, and a long list of crap. Like I said, no EQ, no Thunderfang, no priority attacks and it's typing is horrid.
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Old 03-12-2010, 01:41 PM   #31
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Actually, I've heard smogoners complain for a long time that entai should get Flare Blitz.
Me think this give him BL.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:41 PM   #32
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No, it's simply something that should have had been logically done from day 1 of Gen 4. Entei is a physically bulky Fire type yet had no good physical fire attacks prior to Flare Blitz. Being a legend on top of it really hurts Entei's image. It would be like Mewtwo not learning Psychic.

It does not mean Entei, a still crappy Pokemon with crappy moves and a crappy typing now qualifies for ALMOST OU. In OU, it is still inferior to Infernape as a fire type and is largely inferior to other bulky physical attacks due to their typing being better and their movepool being more useful.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:48 PM   #33
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Ah.
Well, at least he'll get some more use in UU. Maybe.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:43 PM   #34
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...I just found out Wailren is NU.
I know he has a stealth rock weakness, but that seems a little low for one of the best stallers in the game. Loki, would you mind providing the answer for this placement?

PS: Are there any Double Battle Shoddy networks?
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:48 PM   #35
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1) Tiers are based on usage
2) Single battle only
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #36
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empoleon dynamite is right.

There's a large number of NU Pokemon who qualify as an OU except for the fact that no one really uses them.

Aside from Uber, I generally ignore tiers.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:43 AM   #37
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...But then, if it's based off usage, is Walrein, whom I see quite a lot, NU, while shaymin, who I NEVER see, is BL?

Personally, I find the 'placed in lowest tier it doesn't over centralize' explanation the best for explaining tiers.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:08 AM   #38
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Well, Shaymin is an Uber, and not a lot of people play Uber.

And the tiers are subjective. As in, the opinion of smogon. That's why I generally don't care for tiers.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:31 PM   #39
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Wrong.
Shaymin is BL. Skymin is Uber.
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:09 PM   #40
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Jeezus. Do I care?

Like I said. Subjective- All based on opinion.

Is Alakazam UU? Probably not. Is Gardevoir NU? Not really. Is Exeggutor useless in Uber? Absolutely not. There's a lot of Pokemon who work just fine and are easily better than their tier, but their overall lack of popularity over whatever Smogon's sample size is just enough to list them as something lower than their optimal.

Seriously, unless you find yourself in a specific tournament, don't care so much about tiers. Just use Pokemon you think are good and if it works, work it. If not, find out what works for you.

I wish everything was as simple as Little Cup.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:06 PM   #41
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^That's what I do. You're talking to the person who uses Glaceon in OU. XD
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:31 PM   #42
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...But then, if it's based off usage, is Walrein, whom I see quite a lot, NU, while shaymin, who I NEVER see, is BL?

Personally, I find the 'placed in lowest tier it doesn't over centralize' explanation the best for explaining tiers.
BL is the equivalent of the Ubers tier for UU down: it's meant to indicate the Pokemon is too strong for UU use, not that it is the hottest shit ever.

And Walrein is NU probably because it has one good trick (Stallrein), heavily depends on its team to set up that trick, and can be screwed by weather changers (Ttar, Hippowdon).
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Old 04-10-2010, 04:07 AM   #43
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"BL isn't a tier, it's a banlist"
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:06 PM   #44
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Thread needs revival.

Something interesting I once saw someone say. They thought that Electabuzz shouldn't be NFE, similar to Porygon2 and Scyther. Thoughts?
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:09 PM   #45
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No, because the use of Electabuzz and Electivire is almost exactly the same, the only real difference being Motor Drive and no Motor Drive and some stats (making 'buzz UU by comparison).

Scyther is very different from Scizor because of the vast difference of speed and typing. Scyther is on it's own a different Pokemon in many ways because of this.

Porygon2 seems similar, but the difference between Trace and Adaptability clearly changes how it is used. Additionally, PorygonZ is much less defensive and more offensive compared to it's devolved counterpart. Porygon2 is the defensive counter to sweepers like Gyarados and Salamence thanks to Trace and good defenses. PorygonZ could never counter them in the same fashion, as switching in against them could easily lead to death. Porygon2 also counters all those Flashfire/Water Absorb/Volt Absorb and similar Pokemon, something Z also can't do. Despite Z being effective, 2 is quite usable and deadly in it's own right.

'Buzz and 'Vire are used in virtually the exact same way shy of the electric immunity 'Vire. Both are used as versatile sweepers. The end.

Also, dead threads don't automatically need revival when people stop caring.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:52 AM   #46
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Well then we'll try to revive it the old fashion way, with more questions!

What is the one Pokemon, that maybe given a slightly better stat or the addition of one move, would jump from UU to OU?

I think Blastoise, with some unique move besides most bulky waters, would make a good transition to OU. Thoughts? Death threats?
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:19 AM   #47
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The starters need an ability that isn't retarded imo. >.>
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:40 AM   #48
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The most obvious means by which to make each creature potentially useful in competitive play is to grant them (1) at least one unique move which nobody else has access to, and (2) at least one ability which is based on the creature as a whole and not on any single aspect of them (e.g. Levitate is a single aspect of Weezing, whereas Toxic Fumes -- Flying-types who switch in to fight this Pokemon are automatically given the PSN status -- would be something pretty unique to a floating orb of noxious fumes). Not all abilities must stand out as omfg awesome (see: Toxic Fumes suggestion, which is by no means impressive as compared with, say, Clear Body or Intimidate). All they need to do is to secure a niche for that creature.
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:09 AM   #49
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I wonder if the reason they didn't do that is to simplify the battling system? Or possibly because of data restrictions, with having to add more formulas which would slow down the battle process?

Who knows, either way it'll be good with more Pokemon/more attacks/more abilities from the next game. I just don't care much for the PokeContests but the PokeAthlon was pretty damn fun.
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:51 AM   #50
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Contests > Pokéathlon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Super Contests.


Also, every Pokémon needs to be upgradable somehow to give it a base stat total of at least 530, except a few like Smeargle or Shedinja.
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