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Old 09-03-2014, 07:27 PM   #3151
Talon87
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...

...

...

... I think you owe PB an apology, Myles, for calling them idiots who don't know how the game works. And I think you owe me an apology for wasting my time. -.-
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:35 PM   #3152
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Having used Aegislash against Smeargle with Spore plenty of times, I can say that Stance Change never activated once while asleep. Ever.

But you know what? Fuck if it matters. This is what I damn get for going back on my word and getting into any of this bullcrap in the first place. I know I said I was going to try for VGCs, but hell if I care enough now. I'd just be slaughtered by MegaMom anyway. Comp just went to shit for me after Aegislash got Ubered and I'm just done.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #3153
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:23 AM   #3154
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>2HKO's w/ crit not 2HKO'ing without it

Aren't crits 1.5x in 6th gen? Because that makes it very possible for something that 2HKO's (like, doing ~50-66%) to still take two hits to KO even it a crit (the crits being ~75-99%)
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:40 AM   #3155
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They've always been 2x from my memory.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:51 AM   #3156
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Come on Myles, there's being misinformed and then there's being uninformed. Crits have been 1.5x, and I think but am not sure their chances of occuring was changed too, since Gen VI.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:54 AM   #3157
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Must have been changed recently then, because certain misfortunes from a LeafGreen Nuzlocke indicate that they were 2x at least in Gen 3.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:19 AM   #3158
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You could do the research yourself, but crits were changed in Gen VI.

Their power was lowered to 1.5x, and while their base chance for occurring hadn't changed, every step afterwards had a more likely chance of occurring.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:20 AM   #3159
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On the topic of how skilled players' use of multiple alts whilst laddering crowds out less-skilled players from being able to make the cut for Top 100, 200, etc, I was just reading a Nugget Bridge article written by the US National 2014 champion and saw this:

Quote:
I decided my team was ready when I was able to put 3 different Pokemon Showdown accounts in the top 10 of the VGC 2014 ladder.
See? I'm telling you, this is a real thing that actually happens. I know I've brought this up in the past, phoopes said he liked my thinking, and then he talked to Zarel and Zarel was like "No. " But I dunno. Just figured I'd bring it up again more to point out that it occurs than to ask for any change.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:32 PM   #3160
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*dies inside as one generation screws up half his life in experience with crit mechanics*

Old habits die hard indeed.
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:39 PM   #3161
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At the same time that is what ladder decay is for, and it isn't fair for highly skilled players to no longer test out new teams without suffering huge blows to their ladder score.
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:41 PM   #3162
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That makes no sense?
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:54 PM   #3163
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Ladder decay isn't going to remove people from the top 10/50/100. That's like saying that gravity is going to reduce the number of active planes at any given time. The limiting factor is airspace, not gravity, and in this analogy the highly skilled players are operating something like 10 planes when they should only be using 1. How would you feel if you were the #2 player in the entire world, but the #1 player operated 10 alts and got them all into the top 10 of the ladder?
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:07 PM   #3164
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Originally Posted by rotomotorz View Post
At the same time that is what ladder decay is for, and it isn't fair for highly skilled players to no longer test out new teams without suffering huge blows to their ladder score.
Well, what I proposed to phoopes the last time this came up was, what if Showdown were to code the ladder to only display the currently highest score of any given account holder? So for example, if Showdown is smart enough to know that Juisho, Suisho, and Zuisho are all alts of one another, then it could ask, "Okay, who's got the highest RandBats score right now?" and only display that particular name and its Random Battle Elo score on the ladder.

phoopes liked the idea himself, but when he reported it to the higher ups, they sent him back with this message (paraquote): "No, we don't like that idea. Different people sometimes use the same IP address." (Brothers in a household, students in a school, employees in an office, etc.) "And we tend to identify that alts go together based on what IP address they've logged in from. So if we were to try to show the highest score across all alts, we would end up showing the highest on that IP address -- meaning that it'd be possible for none of your scores to show up on the ladder thanks to someone else using the same IP address as you being better at Pokémon battles than you."

I can see their point, but I think that they have misidentified the lesser of two evils. I'd rather the scenario they described happen than the status quo. Clearly they disagree. Their approach to alt crowding has historically been ladder decay, but that's a tug-of-war solution between the staff (who likely have no problem bumping the decay rate up considerably) and the populace (who detest speedy decay rates; what's the point in even bothering with a ladder if your score won't stay up there for more than a day? ). I suppose that if alt crowding became too severe a problem, they would look into my proposal. But for the time being, they're comfortable doing things the way they do it. And while I don't agree with their decision, I can respect it.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:42 AM   #3165
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Wherein Jynx and Gastrodon put on the pressure. (Random Battle, 31 turns)

Wherein I battle someone who challenged me via PM. (VGC 2014, 6 turns)

Wherein freeze hax changes the course of Fate. (Random Battle, 34 turns)

Spoiler: show
I dislike it when people say "gg" in response to a game that, per our earlier discussions about when to and when not to apologize for hax, they've clearly won because of last-minute luck. Battles are the sum total of their turns, and there's something to be said for our illogical behavior in putting more weight on endgame hax than midgame hax. Nonetheless, in games like these, I feel like it's unsporting to say "gg" when the game was ruined for the ultimate loser by the final few turns.

Revenge of the freeze. (Random Battle, 39 turns)

Spoiler: show
This is less bad than the previous game. And not because I'm the one benefiting from the freeze this time around. It is still a case of freeze deciding the victor, which is unfortunate, but he was aiming for hax too: we were in a stalemate situation where whoever received their hax first would be assured the victory. He needed a critical hit, I needed him to not critical hit. I needed a freeze, he needed me to not freeze. This is different from the previous match where the person who had been about to win (me ) had not needed hax to achieve his goal whereas the person who had been about to lose did in fact require hax in order to achieve victory.

"So long as it doesn't miss twice, I'll win, right?" (VGC 2014, 9 turns)

Spoiler: show
A double Hydro Pump miss costs me the game. Odds of only 1 in 25. Not the world's worst odds, but still. The only way I could lose in that position happened. Even my opponent felt sorry for me.
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:27 AM   #3166
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Watched some videos of Alex Ogloza's on YouTube last night and this morning. The two most relevant finds:

First, Carbink the VGC Warrior. This video may as well say, "To Yuki with love, from Alex." Enjoy!

Second, Kingdra and Gen VI critical hits. I did not realize that Focus Energy has competitive relevance now. O_o

Keep in mind that many of his videos consist of (or at least appear to consist of) cherry-picked Showdown battles, showing replays after the fact rather than battles live. Thus, your results may vary from what the videos show. Still: I figure it's worth checking things out if you're interested.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:09 AM   #3167
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Yeah, Sniper Scope Lens Focus Energy Kingdra has become sorta popular (comparatively). I've seen it a few times talked about and maybe once or twice in battle. It's a weird but effective gimmick, especially considering how things like Clefable and Shiggyliph and other Stall stars have become popular.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:25 AM   #3168
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The problems keeping him in check appear to be:
  • vulnerability to Fairy-type attacks
  • vulnerability to speed (no Swift Swim!)
  • no priority attacks (or at least none worth fielding)
  • no room for defensive investment
  • counter Kingdras or even Storm Drain users if spamming AOE Water; Steels and Fairies if spamming Dragon
I have not seen any Sniper Kingdras pulling off this strategy. I have seen maybe one to three Sniper Kingdras over the past five or six months, and I don't recall any of them using Focus Energy. I think that must speak to either a) the gimmick's gimmickiness or else b) the gimmick's efficacy. Either I'm not seeing them because the strategy sucks or else I'm not seeing them because I suck and all of the Sniper Kingdra users inhabit the 1450+ domain.

I like Alex's use of Amoongus to redirect attacks to it, freeing Kingdra up to use Focus Energy.

I'd like to try it out, just to see for myself how potent the gimmick is.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:15 PM   #3169
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Wherein a mind-reading pig, a frigid swan princess, and a phytoserpent take on a deranged bat with lobster hands, Zeus's giant obese hamster, and a prehistoric anemone. (Random Battle, 34 turns)

Spoiler: show
Not sure how this one is to watch, but I was quite proud of this match. (And despite its comparatively low ranking [1600s], too.) I feel like we both fought pretty well, we both understood the game, and in the end I was just one or two steps ahead of him.

Air Slash + Thunder Wave did its job -- which it could have easily not done -.- -- and I was able to remove Cradily with Swanna alone. Had things backfired, I would've had to have hoped that I could lower him to below 50% HP, tempt him to KO Swanna first, and then send out Mr. Mime and pray for one final paralysis (thus permitting the two necessary turns to KO with Psychic).
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:35 PM   #3170
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The best part is that it's not even luck-based at that point if you have 100% crit chance - it's all about the setup. If it turns out to be crazy strong, Smogon cannot even complain.

I gave it a try. It just leaves a horrible taste in my mouth.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:40 PM   #3171
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Critdra really isn't a good Pokemon, at least in singles. I'd much prefer LO Swift Swim Kingdra any day of the week.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:55 PM   #3172
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Quote:
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The best part is that it's not even luck-based at that point if you have 100% crit chance - it's all about the setup. If it turns out to be crazy strong, Smogon cannot even complain.
I think you misunderstand Smogon. They're not always about banning random chance: they've banned plenty of low-chance or no-chance strategies in the past year as well. Mega Blaziken, Mega Gengar, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile ...

And most notably fitting in with your choice of words, their ban of 2+ instances of Baton Pass on the same team. That wasn't just ensuring victory -- that was ensuring victory through a setup phase during which time you were vulnerable, just like Focus Energy Kingdra.

If Focus Energy Kingdra were great in Singles, I very much doubt the current Smogon OU ban council would leave it be.

Last edited by Talon87; 09-07-2014 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Critical error; wrote "I've little doubt" by mistake
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:35 PM   #3173
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CritDra also works better in Doubles since you're gonna get the most out of it with Spread Area attacks (which tend to be low powered and need help), which is something you don't get in Singles.
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:39 PM   #3174
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Crit Muddy Water is not fun

Wide Guard is
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:22 PM   #3175
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Bird Jesus comes to the rescue after a hasty "gg".
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