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Old 08-15-2012, 07:11 PM   #1
deoxys
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Upcoming anime events...

So I was browsing around when I noticed some interesting things that look to be happening in the anime within the next year. I saw a few promo pictures and was a little bit surprised at what I had seen. I don't follow the anime anymore though I've been willing to watch Black and White (Best Wishes), so anyway, let me know your thoughts (I wish I still had the link to the pictures).



Spoiler: show
So the first thing I noticed in three of the promo posters I saw was that Ash had seemingly acquired an Eevee and a Riolu, two things that made me kind of go 'Whaaa?' at instantly. Then, in two of the promo pictures, Dawn was depicted to have come back as a sidekick and group companion, alongside of Cilan and Iris. She appears to have a Combee. Cynthia also played a prominent looking role in the promos, as if she was going to join the group as well. This seemed a bit insane to me, but hey... I guess anything is possible, especially considering the two of the posters also depicted Ash's Charizard re-joining the group as well. Oh, and Giovanni was on one of them, alongside his Golem and Rhydon.


So yeah... I don't follow the anime, but if I did, a lot of that would seem pretty damn spoilerific. Thoughts?
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
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And are you sure they aren't BW Season 2 things?

This wouldn't happen to be one would it?
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
I don't follow the anime anymore though I've been willing to watch Black and White (Best Wishes)

[...]

So yeah... I don't follow the anime, but if I did, a lot of that would seem pretty damn spoilerific. Thoughts?
You kinda answered your own question. If what you saw was the promotional poster (a crude copy of which Kusari linked you to), then there you go: this poster came out right around the time Ash made his final gym challenge (which is what technically capped off Best Wishes' first season). The very next episode, which is the first episode of Best Wishes' second season, both of those character spoilers you mentioned are revealed. What's also revealed if you care to know now rather than later ...

Spoiler: show
... is that Dawn's team hasn't changed at all since we last saw them except for one evolution:
  • Piplup
  • Buneary
  • Pachirisu
  • Mamoswine
  • Quilava (evolved; last time we saw him he was a Cyndaquil)
  • Togekiss (on loan still from her rich doppelganger)
Does she have a Combee? Does she have anything else new? Who knows. The six she reveals (which doesn't happen until Episode 002 of Best Wishes S2) are the six listed above.

As for your questions about acquisitions of Ash's, as far as I know (last episode I watched was BW S2E003), ...

Spoiler: show
... he doesn't have an Eevee or a Riolu and it's unlikely he'll be getting any any time soon. Either they're just being put on the poster 'cause they're cute and popular and they're going to show up in someone else's possession in the Junior Cup tournament or else they're there on the poster for when Ash finishes with the Junior Cup (win or lose) and perhaps heads off to the next area, be that in Unova or back home in Kanto or wherever.

Is Pokémon still a kids show? Absolutely. It comes with all the pitfalls of stereotypical kids shows, many of which are probably reasons you quit watching. However, I would argue that Best Wishes is one of the strongest seasons (and fans could persuasively argue it as the strongest season) of all time. Relatively little filler, only one painful gap between badges (and it's nothing like what you experienced in Johto), some fun distractions for when he's not getting gym badges, a great supporting cast of characters (as far as Pokemon goes), no more stupid Team Rocket (they only show up once every ~5 episodes and whenever they do they're pretty damn serious and occasionally even win small victories for their side), and best of all some of the best creature personalities since the old days. Again, it's 100% a kids show so don't go into it expecting Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Richard Attenborough's Gandhi. Shakespeare it is not. But if you're curious to see what they've done with the Pokemon cartoon since you last watched it, now's a great time to sate that curiosity, if even only for a few episodes before you put it down again.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:55 PM   #4
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Yeah, I guess I could give it a shot. I quit during the dub VA switch, I just thought the new theme song and VAs (at the time) were just utter shit. That and it's repetitiveness... god the repetitiveness of that show was terrible.

One thing that you said that surprised me a bit was Ash's final gym challenge... in season one? So... like... what... what now? I mean... that's...unusual.

And yes that was one of the three promo posters I saw. Another had Ash still with Riolu and Eevee next to him among other things and had "2013!" scrawled at the top.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Yeah, I guess I could give it a shot. I quit during the dub VA switch, I just thought the new theme song and VAs (at the time) were just utter shit. That and it's repetitiveness... god the repetitiveness of that show was terrible.

One thing that you said that surprised me a bit was Ash's final gym challenge... in season one? So... like... what... what now? I mean... that's...unusual.

And yes that was one of the three promo posters I saw. Another had Ash still with Riolu and Eevee next to him among other things and had "2013!" scrawled at the top.
The way the Japanese and the English fandom define "seasons" for Pokemon is very weird and doesn't fit any of the usual conventions. I began to write an unsolicited essay on the topic but you didn't ask for one so I won't make you sit through it. Suffice to say, the Americans and the Japanese divide Pokemon up differently. Going by the Japanese system (since it's what I'm familiar with for Best Wishes), Season 1 of BW is eighty-six episodes long. Season 2 just started a few months ago and is currently six or seven episodes in. So when you say "Wow, isn't that kinda fast?", no, not really. In Kanto, for example, we had 82 episodes by the end of which Ash had eight gym badges and had participated in several rounds of the Pokémon League championship tournament. But before you say, "Oh, so then BW's slow?", consider the other regions. 157 episodes were spent in Johto. ^^; (SLOWEST. SLOG. EVER.) 145 were spent in Hoenn pre-Battle Frontier. And a whopping 191 were spent in Sinnoh. ^^; (But it at least had contests and the Team Galaxy + Pokemon Hunter J subplot.) So yeah. For Ash to have already gotten all eight badges by Episode 86 is indeed fast when you compare it with the timewaster series but when you compare it with the lean-and-mean original it's perfectly natural.

The fact that the Japanese waited eighty-six episodes before giving us a new OP, plus the fact that the Japanese are calling this new step "Season 2" at what would otherwise seem to be such a late stage in the game, all but proves that we've got another 50-60 episodes minimum of Ash doing stuff with his Unova buddies. But given what we know is on the horizon, fans have been wildly speculating about what will happen after November.

Spoiler: show
We know that the Unova League championship tournament should get started some time this September (as that's three months after June; historically, when Nurse Joy has told Ash in the show how far away the tournament date is, it has corresponded with the IRL time gap for when the show was airing. So says AK2 anyway). That means it'll get started pretty soon after the Junior Cup tournament finishes. And if we assume a length similar with past series, it shouldn't be more than ten episodes long, win or lose. There's no way in hell they'd bust out the brass trumpets and the red carpet for such a small chunk of episodes and label them as "Season 2." Instead, the label pretty much has to mean that after Ash loses (as he probably will. ^^; My money's on him getting to the semifinals again) he's either going to:
  1. explore Unova more
  2. do plot-related stuff with Team Plasma who have been missing this entire time
  3. go back home to Kanto and prepare for the Indigo League championship tournament ... which the writers will then have him win
  4. other
My money is on #1. My second bet is #2. AK2's hoping for #3, and I have to admit that would be pretty great, but I'm not sure they'd call it "Best Wishes Season 2" if that was the case. #4 is probably the safest bet of all though. ^^;

Regardless of the outcome, it's pretty probable that if they felt the need to call this second chunk "Season 2" when they could've perfectly well called it anything else, and if they felt the need to wait this long before demarcating where one season ended and where the next began, that BW Season 2 is probably going to be at least five-eighths as long as its predecessor, probably just as long and possibly even longer, who knows.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:21 AM   #6
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In regards to the Riolu and Eevee: Both are available in B/W2. So while they might just be appearing in a couple episodes or something, it's not completely out of realm of possibility that Ash gets one or both. They're popular Pokemon, and it's a good way to say "Hey, if you like these Pokemon, you can get them yourself by buying B/W2!" Whatever you want to say about how good/bad the anime is, they often use it to promote the games/toys/etc.

Granted, I'll admit that I don't really watch the anime religiously anymore. It's more of an "Oh, this is on, and I'm bored, so let's watch it" sort of thing right now, so I've got no clue what direction they're going in currently.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:26 AM   #7
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The Riolu will most likely be the one Ash met in Sinnoh that knew Aura sphere. They developed a bond and it was hinted that they'd meet again, then again Ash made the same promise for Butterfree, Pidgeot, and Primeape.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:10 PM   #8
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The latest news for upcoming Pokémon episodes is, uhh, interesting. ^^;

(details for episode that has not yet aired in Japan)
Spoiler: show
Apparently Giovanni is in danger of going mad with power of some sort and falling into it? And Jessie, James, and Meowth leap forward to personally rescue him? And the caption up top says "Farewell, Team Rocket"? Obviously I think that's just to excite people about what's coming up. I doubt Giovanni's about to die or get teleported to some alternate dimension. And I doubt Team Rocket's about to disband. But man that would be pretty nuts if they did!

Still sad that the anime has had jackshit nothing to do with Team Plasma so far. Would've been nice to see Anime Ghetsis, Anime Shadow Triad, and so on, but I especially wanted to meet Anime Anthea and Concordia. So I can't help but wonder if this news is going to herald a phasing out of Team Rocket entirely from Ash's adventures in Unova and if Team Plasma is finally going to take center stage. Could explain why they're committed to calling this "Season 2" of Best Wishes even though we just spent 86 episodes in what's now being called "Season 1" exploring this region. With the gym badge acquisition out of the way, maybe it'll be bam bam bam bam Ash doing the plot-related stuff from the games with Team Plasma. I kinda doubt it, especially since some of those events (like the stolen Dragonite skull) have already been done in the anime and by Team Rocket no less, but we'll see.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:12 PM   #9
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BIG spoilers for the Unova League:

Spoiler: show
What the fucking hell? Can someone please tell me what the fucking appeal to having Ash lose OVER AND OVER is? He came in the Top 4 again, whoopty fucking doo. You know the message that this sends to kids? "FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS, THEY'LL NEVER COME TRUE!"

Are you fucking serious? Holy shit, have him win a fucking tournament for once. Why the fuck does anyone still give a fuck about the anime at this point? Ash is an uninteresting character who quite frankly sucks at this whole Pokemon business.

Just. For fuck's sake. I can't even comprehend the amount of bullshit this is.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
BIG spoilers for the Unova League:

Spoiler: show
What the fucking hell? Can someone please tell me what the fucking appeal to having Ash lose OVER AND OVER is? He came in the Top 4 again, whoopty fucking doo. You know the message that this sends to kids? "FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS, THEY'LL NEVER COME TRUE!"

Are you fucking serious? Holy shit, have him win a fucking tournament for once. Why the fuck does anyone still give a fuck about the anime at this point? Ash is an uninteresting character who quite frankly sucks at this whole Pokemon business.

Just. For fuck's sake. I can't even comprehend the amount of bullshit this is.
Spoiler: show
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:38 PM   #11
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Called it. AK2 asked me many times, and I called it.

Spoiler: show
He was hoping for Championships, but I was confident Ash'd lose at the semi-finals because I knew ShoPro wouldn't want to take him to the finals this go around; and obviously they wouldn't have him regress; so that means 4th place.

As for your frustration, here's the pattern now:
- Kanto: Top 16
- Johto: Top 8
- Hoenn: Top 8
- Sinnoh: Top 4
- Unova: Top 4

So like, it's pretty likely he'll make Top 2 in France, and then either:
1) we take a break from new regions, he goes home to Kanto, and he wins the Indigo League tournament; or
2) we go to one last new region, he gets 2nd there too, and then we do #1

Either way, there's no point in him winning abroad. The anime established that you can't access the Champion League until you get 1st place in your home region. Which means if they ever decide to put this dinosaur to rest, they'll have to have Ash go home first. If you see that ever happen, you can expect 1st place.

Orange Islands: What about me? Why didn't I make the list?
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
BIG spoilers for the Unova League:

Spoiler: show
What the fucking hell? Can someone please tell me what the fucking appeal to having Ash lose OVER AND OVER is? He came in the Top 4 again, whoopty fucking doo. You know the message that this sends to kids? "FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS, THEY'LL NEVER COME TRUE!"

Are you fucking serious? Holy shit, have him win a fucking tournament for once. Why the fuck does anyone still give a fuck about the anime at this point? Ash is an uninteresting character who quite frankly sucks at this whole Pokemon business.

Just. For fuck's sake. I can't even comprehend the amount of bullshit this is.
That's kind of how the real world works, though.

Not every person who dreams to be president becomes president. And even the guy who dared to dream and became it, didn't turn out to be a very good president anyway.

I understand how Americans can be intolerant of this view - if we don't shoot for the Moon, we'll never leave the ground - but the message isn't the problem. The message is a product of something else which is the problem.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:54 PM   #13
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Heavy spoiler.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:59 PM   #14
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Heavy spoiler.

Aww crap. XD Then I guess I didn't call it.

Spoiler: show
And wow that they did that to him. Wow. We've regressed back to Hoenn.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:15 PM   #15
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Yeah I was pretty shocked, too. Not a good sign. Haven't you been saying the last couple seasons have been the best yet? Why would they do that?
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:27 PM   #16
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Because they have been. We have gotten to enjoy seeing non-Ash characters challenge in-the-games gyms, some of them getting badges. We finally saw one of the franchise's most potentially amazing confrontations between two human characters, and boy was it amazing. Ash had a legendary for a traveling buddy for some twenty-odd episodes. The number of filler episodes is less than 15% of all episodes (with at least a capture or an evolution occurring in most non-gym, non-tournament episodes). A huge cast of supporting human characters. Pokémon with the best personalities since Charizard and Chikorita. Four of them! (Oshawott, Snivy, Krookodile, and Emolga.) And no Comic Relief Team Rocket! They're serious, they're dangerous, they're often successful, and above all else, they only show up like once every five to seven episodes. The Pokémon anime has never been better.

So why do this? I dunno, because your hands are tied by higher powers to stall indefinitely?

Spoiler: show
By having him regress to 8th place, which takes us back to like 2005 in North America when Pokémon Emerald came out, it sends a very clear message that fans cannot count upon guaranteed gradual improvement towards a championship title. It's heavy-handed, absolutely, since even 4th place would've worked, but it's just their way of laying the groundwork for many generations of failures to come.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:30 PM   #17
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The only reason I can think of this happening, besides PLOT LOL, like you said, is because his team was weaker. Is this true? How does Ash's team, power-wise, compare to his Hoenn and Sinnoh teams?

Also that Eevee and Riolu Deoxys pointed out for the start of the thread totally makes sense now.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
Spoiler: show
The only reason I can think of this happening, besides PLOT LOL, like you said, is because his team was weaker. Is this true? How does Ash's team, power-wise, compare to his Hoenn and Sinnoh teams?

Also that Eevee and Riolu Deoxys pointed out for the start of the thread totally makes sense now.
My answer isn't really a spoiler. Pretty sure everything I'm going to say has aired in America. That stated, I guess I'll put it in a spoiler box because even discussing it clues people in to probable outcomes.

Spoiler: show
Ash's team this go-around consists of:
- Pikachu (hi)
- Oshawott (mid)
- Snivy (mid; hi for a Snivy)
- Pignite (mid)
- Krookodile (hi)
- Unfezant (mid or lo)
- Leavanny (mid or lo)
- Palpitoad (mid or lo)
- Boldore (mid)
- Scraggy (lo or mid; powerful but a baby)

Those are his ten regulars. As you can see, he really only has two heavies: good ol' Pikachu, and then Krookodile, who is just ridiculously strong (and also his only fully-evolved Pokémon currently on the team besides his Unfezant, whoops and his Leavanny, double whoops! okay, so it's the only fully-evolved on his team that feels stronger than a Pidgeotto ). So like, if you want to argue based on stage of evolution and base damage output, then sure, this team is a whole heck of a lot weaker than his Sinnoh Six:
- Pikachu (hi)
- Infernape (hi)
- Torterra (hi or mid)
- Staraptor (hi)
- Buizel (mid)
- Gible (mid or lo; a baby but very powerful)

But I don't know that that's entirely fair or entirely what's going on here. Because, Ash's Kanto team by all accounts is something like:
- Pikachu (hi)
- Bulbasaur (hi or mid-hi; a God amongst Bulbasaurs, ready to evolve ages ago, practically is a Venusaur)
- Squirtle (hi or mid-hi; likewise, totally ready to evolve, mastered Hydro Pump, has felled many high-level Pokémon)
- Charizard (hi)
- Pidgeotto (Indigo; mid) / Snorlax (Orange; hi)
- Lapras (Orange; mid)

And ...

*recalls Ash only lost on a technicality in Kanto*
*recalls Ash won the Orange League championship, a 6v6 involving the likes of Gengar and Dragonite*

... well shit, son. Maaaaaaaybe you're onto something. ;p

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Old 02-14-2013, 11:46 AM   #19
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Some very strange news regarding the current story arc in the Pokémon anime. Don't click if you don't want to know about stuff happening months from now.

Spoiler: show
Apparently the stuff with N and Team Plasma is going to be wrapped up by mid-April, just eight or nine weeks away from now. That's very strange to me considering:

One, they're wasting time on fillers now, the first we've had in ages. Why waste time when we have so little remaining?

Two, the new games won't be out in Japan until October. So what is Ash going to do until then? Usually the anime airs the league tournament in the months leading up to such a release but ...

Three, they've already completed the Unova League. We have a tournament champion and everything. Sooo ... they can't buy time that way like usual.

Four, the Genesect movie coming out this summer seems to have a lot to do with Team Plasma. But why do that if you're going to wrap things up with them in the television series in April?

Five, we just got a brand-new OP that looks like it has lots to do with Team Plasma. Why would you make a whole new OP for only twelve or so episodes? Some studios do, but not TPC & ShoPro. Hell, they had us suffer with the first BW OP for over 80 episodes! -_-;

So it just seems very, very strange to me. I wouldn't even believe it were it not apparently reported in CoroCoro.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:27 AM   #20
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So does this mean we could have
Spoiler: show
a trip to the Orre region in the near future? =3
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:45 AM   #21
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No way, not enough time. With the Gen 6 games coming out in October, that leaves us with just ~37 episodes until the Gen 6 anime season should begin. 37 episodes might be plenty for them to wrap up what they're doing now and then take us to a brand-new region were this any other anime, but the Pokémon anime is by its own nature so drawn out that I can't possibly see them ever covering a new region in that few episodes. You would be far better off betting on still-unlikely-but-at-least-more-likely revisiting of an old region, with his home region of Kanto topping that list.

To be honest, it's going to be strange how the anime tries to justify Ash's trip to Region 6. When they had him head off to Unova, it was ostensibly some sort of summer vacation for him. He was accompanied by his mother and Professor Oak and they were pretty much tourists on vacation. Think of this like taking your son on vacation from Japan (where you live) to the United States ... him disappearing on you for a good half year to a year (putting aside Pokémon's cheating with the passage of time) ... and then him phoning you, back at home in Japan, to let you know that instead of coming home finally from America, he's headed off for Europe. ^^; The Pokémon anime makes no sense.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:10 PM   #22
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If anything, they should revisit Johto since they didn't do that in between DP and Best Wishes. If they do bring him back to Kanto, they should have Bulbasaur FINALLY evolve into an Ivysaur, it's been a long time coming. Also, Bayleef vs. Snivy. *nods*
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:30 PM   #23
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I'm pretty sure that Johto wasn't revisited because while, yes, we had HGSS, there wasn't anything massively new to build a story arc around. They went back to Kanto for the Battle Frontier because a) They wanted to revisit it after trudging all around Hoenn and have Ash swap his team around, and b) Somewhere else for May to do contests. At least, that's my own theory.

Add into that the fact that Kanto easily had the shortest story arc of the (then) three 'canon' regions, with 81 episodes compared to Johto's 157 and Hoenn's 131 (admittedly with Johto being filler-tastic), and you can see why they'd go back to Kanto for a bit. I'm pretty sure that they just timed it so that Best Wishes started when BW came out.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:02 PM   #24
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I'm pretty sure that they just timed it so that Best Wishes started when BW came out.
Not sure why you're singling Best Wishes out here when ...

Johto:
Video games launch - November 21, 1999
Anime launch - October 14, 1999

Hoenn:
Video games launch - November 21, 2002
Anime launch - November 21, 2002

Sinnoh:
Video games launch - September 28, 2006
Anime launch - September 28, 2006

Unova:
Video games launch - September 18, 2010
Anime launch - September 23, 2010

With the exception of Kanto (which for obvious reasons doesn't count since Pokémania had to be spawned by the games before anyone would've even considered picking it up for a TV series), every single region's anime debut has coincided with the games going on sale in Japan. The largest gap was also the oldest: Johto's roughly five-week gap between the anime and the games. Next comes the most recent: Unova, whose anime began five days later than the games' release (vs. Johto's anime's five weeks earlier). The only other two on the list, Hoenn and Sinnoh, both line up to the day between the anime debut of the new region and the sales launch date for the games.

If you're already well aware of this, apologies if the post comes off as insulting to your intelligence; that isn't my intention. I'm just pointing out the dates to you because your wording makes it sound like you feel they tried something different with Unova specifically. And as you can see, that's not the case.

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All of this stated, it would be very interesting if they were to try something new for Japanese fans who have never gotten to experience this as the international community has -- and that's to have the anime start you off in the region months in advance of the games' release. I for one would love to re-experience that, although obviously the international market wouldn't be able to since the anime dub is far, far behind the anime raw and there are logistical problems involved with trying to catch up and remain caught up. But it would be pretty neat if the Gen 6 anime started airing this April. What a surprise that would be.

This stated, I really doubt it's going to happen. Like, 1000:1 odds against it happening. ^^; For starters, the summer Genesect film says "Herro :3" and begs the question of why it should even exist if we're starting up a Gen 6 anime in April. Second, it's hard to imagine that they would not have announced this to the world already. Third, they have a 15+ year history of not doing this. While that's not necessarily proof positive that they can't try something new, the fact remains that they've had five generations to experiment with, especially Hoenn (where Ash finished his league circuit quite quickly), and yet instead of having one region's anime be uncharacteristically short so that the next region's anime could get started months in advance, they've given us staller seasons (like Orange Islands and Battle Frontier) as well as staller story arcs during main seasons (like May's and Dawn's contest circuits).
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:23 PM   #25
DaveTheFishGuy
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Oh yeah, I knew that. I just meant that we only tend to get 'bonus' seasons when the primary one progresses quickly. We pretty much only had Orange Islands because they finished the Indigo League and went 'Wait fuck what now? There's new games but not for months? What now? Let's make up some new area'.

Obviously they time the season overlap with the game release, I was pretty much just stating that with a new story arc only a few episodes in and new games on the horizon, there's no way of squeezing something like a visit to Johto in.
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