Upcoming anime events...

[Mercutio]

I guess that they'll just make him want to improve as a trainer again after his seizure.

[kusari]

There was the Johto/Sinnoh Frontier. They could have him take a short detour to Johto and do the challenge on his way back to Kanto. Then he goes home to Pallet and finds out about the new region and goes there.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Except that he did the Battle Frontier in Kanto. The Johto one wasn't different enough to warrant it, I guess.

[Spikkle]

Originally Posted by Gemini Spark

So does this mean we could have

Spoiler: show

a trip to the Orre region in the near future? =3

I have a sudden and totally nonsensical urge to see this made into a spin-off series

Spoiler: show

with better animation

More seriously, why has a spin-off never been done? Excluding the specials, of course, since those really only build upon the events of main series canon rather than going off in a new direction.

[Talon87]

There aren't many cases of any serialized television show getting a reboot or a "spinoff" as you put it but with all new characters while the first show is still airing. Cheers had a spinoff in Frasier, but that used several pre-existing Cheers characters (Frasier and Lilith). Friends had a spinoff in Joey but not only did that use a pre-existing character, it also waited for the original to end first. Pinky and the Brain got their own series spun off of Animaniacs while it was still airing, but that too used pre-existing characters from the parent franchise.

To put it another way, we can consider many of the examples where a franchise had a long-running television series and no reboot nor "spinoff but with all-new characters" aired at the same time. DragonBall. Naruto. Bleach. Doctor Who. Battlestar Galactica. 24. Lost. The X-Files. Garfield & Friends. DuckTales. On and on we could go. Some of these had spinoffs but with preexisting characters (like Darkwing Duck from DuckTales), others were reboots but didn't happen until after the original finished airing (BSG, Doctor Who with respect to its various series). And many just plain never got any do-overs or spinoffs (like Naruto or Bleach).

The only example I can think of that fits your criteria would be Star Trek: Voyager as its main crew were 100% new characters and it started airing while its predecessor, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, was still on the air. It took us somewhere completely new while still being recognizably "Star Trek" on the surface. And even that series still had cameos from characters or civilizations in previous Star Treks.

But I suppose you could say none of what I've said really answers your question. Why don't they do a Pokémon reboot or a Pokémon "spinoff" series with all new characters in an all-new region. (Can you really call that a spinoff? ^^; ) I suppose there are several reasons.

First, Nintendo wants to protect their intellectual property. That means trusting as few parties with the rights to do stuff with it as possible. They're afraid that the more people they allow to play around with those properties, the greater the risk of the IPs losing their value.

Second, Nintendo may see a second Pokémon series with a stand-alone plot animated by a separate studio as unhealthy rather than healthy competition with their first or main series. If this is the case, I don't think it's very perceptive of Nintendo given the large demand from fans who have long since grown up for a more realistic, better animated, adult series for adults, and the overlap there with the anything-goes super-cartoon-physics lighthearted kids show is marginal. But that doesn't mean the fear isn't there.

Third, it's quite possible that most animation studios are turned off by Nintendo's terms in any negotiated contracts. Perhaps the cost for the license is far too high. Perhaps Nintendo stipulates that come Hell or high water the studio has to get x many episodes out each year. Perhaps Nintendo wants their own insider to be the chief storyboard writer who gets final say over everything plot-related. Perhaps they demand that the mascot character be a currently-popular Pokémon. On and on the list goes. It may just so happen that ShoPro, way back when in 1997 or whenever, offered Nintendo the most generous terms (out of desperation to get the license) and Nintendo now wants these same terms out of any other suitors.

I could keep going, but I think these three examples are enough to illustrate why we may not have gotten to have another studio take a crack at the Pokémon universe.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Didn't DS9 and TNG have a one-season overlap as well? I'm sure that DS9 started airing during TNG's final season.

Wasn't there that Pokémon Chronicles that was terrible and didn't really go anywhere? It would've been nice if that got picked up. Hell, even one about prior companions like May or Dawn would have been good (seeing how May should have been the chuffing main character during Hoenn in the first place).

[Talon87]

DS9 also launched with Miles O'Brien, had its pilot episode with Jean-Luc Picard, and ...

Season 4 spoiler

Spoiler: show

later added Worf to the main roster.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Ah, fair enough. Misinterpreted what you meant with the 'all-new characters' thing.

As said, I'd rather see a spinoff with existing characters, which seems to be a formula that works well. Torchwood springs to mind.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy

Ah, fair enough. Misinterpreted what you meant with the 'all-new characters' thing.

As said, I'd rather see a spinoff with existing characters, which seems to be a formula that works well. Torchwood springs to mind.

Well, it was Spikkle's own stipulation, so I had to work within that framework. He said a "spinoff" but then he specified that Pokémon Chronicles didn't count because it used preexisting characters like Brock, Misty, Butch & Cassidy, and Gary. I don't really agree with his use of the term "spinoff" in that case then (to me, it isn't a spinoff unless it has some obvious character connection or event connection to its predecessor!), but I took it to mean "a reboot with all new characters," as opposed to "a reboot with Red/Ash as the main character and Pikachu as his starter," which is what I took his use of "reboot" to mean given his definition of "spinoff".

Personally, what I most want to see when it comes to this discussion topic (and have wanted to see for many years now) is a Kanto reboot that is game-faithful and written for a young adult audience.

Spoiler: show

Have Red be the star, especially now that the fanon has a better sense of his character owing to what was learned in GSC.

He doesn't need any human traveling buddies. That's kind of not the point with Red. The point with Red is that his Pokémon are his best friends but that he's otherwise very much alone. (Picture the scene in Bivouac/Snow Way Out! with Ash in the make-shift igloo and his Pokémon keeping him alive with their body heat. That's what I want to see.)

Work your way up with a core team of five (and, as we near the midway point, six) and develop them each as authentic characters. To be honest, they did do a decent job of this in the original series. Four of his main six -- Pikachu, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charmander/meleon/zard -- had unique personalities fans could recognize and describe. The only ones who suffered were Pidgeotto (who remained bland for the entire series run, poor thing) and his ever-shifting sixth slotmon (Butterfree, Primeape, Muk/Kingler/Tauros, and Orange Islands Snorlax).

Follow the game's plot but make it better. Whatever that means and whatever that takes.

Axe comic relief Team Rocket. Completely. In fact, axe Jessie and James period. Generic Rocket grunts early on and named Rocket admins later on are good enough. We don't need named, recurring Rocket grunts, let alone bumbling fools.

Game-relevant strategy. Strategic switching. Taking advantage of same-type attack bonuses and type weaknesses and resistances. Comboing moves. Do still do what you did before with "things that make sense in the real world but don't occur in the games," that I'm fine with, but less of "HA HA HA HA! MUSCLE OVER MIND! " Ash Ketchum School of Battling.

Most gym battles should not be less than 3v3. You can get away with one 1v1, but it has to come late in the series or else the drama behind such a challenge is meaningless.

And more. But I'll stop here.

And what I really most want to see, more than anything else, be it in anime form, game form, whatever, is a franchise reboot that takes humans out of the equation. I want to see a Kanto-style league challenge ... but instead of it being a human child who rounds up six magical animals and barks "DODGE!" at them, I instead want it to be a band of brothers who coalesce around a shared dream or goal. They themselves train, like martial artists in the real world. They themselves come up with their strategies. They themselves adventure. No humans. No PokéBalls. Just a group of friends (that caps at anywhere from five to seven) who are aiming for the top.

[Gemini Spark]

Originally Posted by Talon87

And what I really most want to see, more than anything else, be it in anime form, game form, whatever, is a franchise reboot that takes humans out of the equation. I want to see a Kanto-style league challenge ... but instead of it being a human child who rounds up six magical animals and barks "DODGE!" at them, I instead want it to be a band of brothers who coalesce around a shared dream or goal. They themselves train, like martial artists in the real world. They themselves come up with their strategies. They themselves adventure. No humans. No PokéBalls. Just a group of friends (that caps at anywhere from five to seven) who are aiming for the top.

Soooo... a Pokemon Conquest anime? =3 Or maybe have more Pokemon Mystery Dungeon anime?

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Sounds more like Dragonball but with Pokémon instead of martial art schools to me.

Talon: No! That's not what I meant at all!

[Talon87]

Pokémon Conquest, no, that had humans. And Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, not quite either, but close. Like I said, what I want is the Kanto story (and closer to the game's than to the first anime's) but with humans completely removed from the equation. Rather than capturing new teammates, you're recruiting them. Think of it like Journey to the West. Or Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Or any tale where the protagonist starts off on his own but bit by bit he recruits the team members who will become his second (or in some cases his first) family. There are no more PokéBalls. The fighting done by the various team members is now a lot more like "magical martial arts" than it is generic chess. (In this sense, you can find an easy comparison in Avatar: the Last Airbender where real-life martial arts styles were combined with one each of the four Aristotelian elements to produce an in-universe martial art.) The team, as a team, challenges gyms/dojos/whatever to collect badges. The badges are shared by the team. A team that collects eight badges gets to compete in the league tournament held once yearly. And the winner of that tournament gets an invitation to challenge the top squads in the land, the Elite Four. Defeat them and you earn the right to challenge the sitting Champion. Defeat them and your team is now the new Champion team in all the land.

Saying that what I want is "a Pokémon Mystery Dungeon anime" is close but is not precisely what I want. (I'd like that separately, sure! But that's not what I am talking about here.) PMD doesn't have a league system. PMD isn't focused on martial arts / combat prowess. PMD is basically "Pokémon rescue rangers / firefighters", which is but one focus of a Pokémon world without humans. Also, squads are really limited in size in the PMD games. Also, to date, PMD games have had the heroes anchored to a specific geographical location -- Treasure Town, for example -- whereas what I want is a journey that actually takes our heroes around the world, or at the very least throughout the nation, as they pick up new team members, learn new arts, and so on.

You would probably be very, very close to the mark if you said "what Talon wants is PMD meets Avatar: the Last Airbender." That would be very, very close to summing up what it is that I want in as few words as possible.

[Gemini Spark]

Wouldn't that just be a Pokemon version of Final Fantasy, plus Pokemon League stuff?

[DaveTheFishGuy]

I have the sudden and depressing urge to write a fanfic now.

God damn it, Talon.

[Mercutio]

So, you take Wartortle, Shuckle, Grotle, Torkoal and Raticate and have them go adventuring?

Cool.

[Talon87]

The trailer for this summer's movie is out now. Don't click it if you don't want to see spoilers regarding the anime. Don't watch past 1m20s (I mean it, it happens real soon after that) if you don't want to be spoiled on something I think we've all unfortunately been spoiled on already regarding Gen 6. ^^; (Hint: it was a spoiler from February.)

Anime spoilers inside but no Gen 6 spoilers:

Spoiler: show

Not really sure what the deal is with all the Kanto crossovers we're seeing recently. Charizard comes back in the anime, even if it's probably only temporarily. Then Mewtwo is one of the co-stars of this summer's movie -- hell, you might even say he's the main star considering he's in the hero's spot this time playing opposite Genesect in the villain's / antihero's spot. Then you look at the trailer and it's got mostly Kantomon and Unovamon. Butterfree, Persian, Bellossum, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Herdier, and possibly others (too lo-res to be able to tell). So two Kanto, one Johto evolution of a Kanto line, and three Unova. So where exactly are we? Somewhere in Unova that has Kantomon? Somewhere in Kanto that has Unovamon? Neither? Given Ash's wardrobe hasn't changed, he's still with Dent and Iris, and there's not much additional evidence that points to Kanto, I'd lean towards us being in some made-for-the-movie city in Unova, but still. It is strange that they're pushing Kanto so much. I'd expect the summer movie that comes out before a new generation in the fall to showcase a Gen 6 legendary, not a Gen 5 one vs. a Gen 1 one. Not to mention the Gen 1 one already had his own cinema movie plus a direct-to-video sequel. I dunno, it just seems strange, is all. I'm not against it though, and if we weren't getting a new generation this fall, I'd even have dared to hope that this might've meant Ash was finally going back to Kanto, challenging his home league again, and winning, thus enabling him to move up the ladder (challenging the Elite Four, entering the Champion League, whatever). But since we know that we are going to a new region this fall, it's just very strange to me that they're being all "HEY, KIDS, IT'S CHARIZARD! HEY, KIDS, IT'S MEWTWO! " on us.

Gen 6 spoilers:

Spoiler: show

As for the sneak peek look at Sylveon, she seems rather ... large. ^^; Maybe it's just how they drew her? And maybe part of it is that, in that group shot at the end, only Pikachu and Sylveon are in the front, while all the others are behind them by one row? But I dunno, she seems very ... tall.

PLEASE DON'T BE A NORMAL-TYPE EVOLUTION. -_-;

[kusari]

>Where are we?

Spoiler: show

Serebii is saying the place is called New Tork City.

[Gemini Spark]

Anime spoilers:

Spoiler: show

So, Charizard comes back in exchange for Unfezant getting dropped off at Oak's lab! Yay, Charizard, I can't believe he's back now! =D And now Unfezant is at Oak's lab with the rest of Ash's Pokemon, namely a few certain boy birdies... inb4 Unfezant x Staraptor or Unfezant x Shiny Noctowl shippings ;)

[Amras.MG]

Talon: Here's the answer:

Spoiler: show

"We swear Ash doesn't suck, look at Charizard that's cool right, and Mewtwo, remember how kickass he was in the first movie, don't leave =3"

Spoiled to be on the safe side: no gen 6 stuff, only recent anime developments

[Talon87]

Not saying you're wrong as to what their thinking might be, but the problem with that answer is,

Spoiler: show

they've brought back Charizard so many times already that it's not nearly as big a deal as it was when he first returned at the end of the Johto saga and fought against the berserker Dragonite. (In fact, how are they bringing Charizard back this go around? By having him fight against a formerly berserker Dragonite. I swear, if Charizard loses to Iris's Dragonite despite managing to hold his own against Clair's father's/grandfather's Dragonite, he will be majorly emasculated e-Bro-izard-ulated. [Man, that's a hyphenated mess. ]) So like, since they've already brought him back so many times, it's ... just not quite as amazing. It's still welcome though.

What they really need(ed) to do to make this awesome is, they need(ed) to have Charizard remain wish Ash quasi-permanently this time. And by that I mean, have him be like Pikachu #2. Sure, it cuts down on the number of new Pokémon he'll be adding to his team in France, but so what? I'd rather Ash have Charizard than have the fire fox (even if the fire fox is my favorite of the Gen 6 bunch). I'd rather we get some serious further character development for an already established character and fan favorite than reinvent the wheel once again with somebody new. Forgive me my fan soapbox here, but here's what I'd love to see them do with France (even though I know they won't):

• Pikachu, because he's the de facto team captain of Ash's squad. Nobody acts like a captain, including Pikachu, but he's Ash's starter and clear #1 favorite.
• Charizard representing Kanto. Because he's fucking Bro-izard, man.
• Bayleef representing Johto. Bring back Ash's best (and, imo, only really good ^^; ) Johtomon, and let's finally give her that opportunity to evolve past the fairly hideous Bayleef stage and into the fun Meganium stage. Plus I look forward to Meganium glomping Ash. :3
• ??? representing Hoenn. I dunno who the fans think would be the best fit here. Didn't watch it. I'll just say, no repeats for core types, so that means no Sceptile ('cause we already have Bayleef). Keep this rule in mind with the later generations too.
• ??? representing Sinnoh. While I did watch this one, I'm not really sure who'd be a great pick. Infernape was sort of supposed to be the star of this region, I gather? What because of Paul's abandoning him as a Chimchar and all? But I never really actually got that feeling from Chimchar / Monferno / Infernape while watching. Turtwig / Grotle / Torterra never really stood out and definitely not moreso than either Chikorita / Bayleef or Treecko / Grovyle / Sceptile. Going to stop myself here and just reiterate that I dunno who'd be the best pick. Surprise me, ShoPro.
• Oshawott representing Unova. Clearly the best of the Unova bunch as far as personality goes. And he still has loads of room for development, particularly because he's the least evolved of any of Ash's personalitymon.
• Francemon for Slot #6 or #7

If we want to restrict it to just six, axe the Hoenn, Sinnoh, or Unova team slot. If we want to allow for marginal rotation, then keep the ones listed above and hell, maybe even allow him to catch a couple more Francemon too. Just don't go getting too many. We saw how that sadly worked out for a lot of the Pokémon on Ash's Unova team.

Anyway, it won't happen, but this is what I wish they would do. Go back, develop the best Pokémon characters from the various regions, prepare a sort of "dream team" for taking on the Indigo League ... and then go fucking do it.

The other problem with your answer is ^^; ...

Spoiler: show

Kids? Don't leave ... kids? I'd say most of the "kids" who remember Charizard and Mewtwo are now adults. The little kids today barely even recognize a lot of the pre-Unova Pokémon, or so we're told by UPNers who babysit for or interact with little kids. (I recall Daisy experiencing this when she visited England, and I seem to vaguely recall Hana mentioning it once before?) So I doubt they'd even really appreciate who or what a Mewtwo is. Charizard maybe, because of all of those anime cameos he gets each region , but Mewtwo ... this is the first time he's shown up in anything animated since Mewtwo Strikes Back over ten years ago.

[Mercutio]

But Oshawott is so very terrible.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

But Oshawott is so very terrible.

Watch the series first, then come back to us. Oshawott is the single best-written Ashmon since his Chikorita over ten years ago. He's single-handedly the reason so many people, self included, went from hating the Pokémon (that terrible design! >_<) to loving it, and is easily the fan favorite of Unova, with Ash's Snivy, Ash's Krookodile, and Iris's Emolga fighting over 2nd, 3rd, and 4th places and with everyone else in a distant 5th place and beyond.

[Mercutio]

See clearly I have outgrown the series because I think those pokemon are pretty shite. Oshawott has the virtue that is less irritating than Piplup and Torchic.

Chikorita was well written in hindsight.

[Talon87]

Chikorita was well-written period, I don't know what you're talking about. I loved her in 2000, most fans loved her in 2000, I love her still in 2013, and most fans consider her the best developed Johtomon to this day. Hindsight has got nothing to do with it. Maybe for you it does, but that makes you weird. You weirdo.

As for Oshawott, Snivy, Krookodile, and Emolga ... "there's no accounting for taste." Not really sure how you can rationalize hating the four single most developed Pokémon with unique personalities that pass the RedLetterMedia test, but that's life for you. Opinions: people have 'em.

[Amras.MG]

Talon, why do you think they nerfed Ash even more in Unova, in general?

Does that need to be spoilered? /fuckifIknow