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Old 11-21-2017, 11:53 AM   #1
Ex-Admiral Insane
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Meowth Re-Evaluating FB Aspects: Costs, Prices and Purchases

Dear all,

as of this moment, the moderators all seem to be in agreement that some of the prices as they appear now in FB have been set too low. It is our intention currently to re-evaluate some of the costs and prices that exist in FB and to, in most cases, increase the costs for them. Not every aspect has been discussed yet though the most crucial ones we've had an agreement on are listed below. As per usual, we bring these changes to you as a proposal to comment on before we implement anything. Please provide your opinion on the prices that have been set in FB and what you believe they should be in relation to the income (new) players gain. It is our intention to have this matter resolved before the BMG branch is opened to the public and the respective new players, though we will not delay it's opening if this goal isn't reached in time.

Proposed Changes:
  • TMs will be vastly more expensive. (See TM Development Thread for more.)
  • Natural MT moves will have their cost raised to $500
  • Unnatural MT moves will have their cost raised to $1000
  • MT services will no longer be 1 move a week. Instead, upon confirmation at the end of the week, a player gets all the moves they've paid for that week. This clause will only be implemented if the prices for the MT will be increased from what they are now, such as those listed above.
  • Heart Scales can be exchanged for 10 free levels at the Daycare, or 5 natural MT/EM moves at the Move Tutor.

  • Prices for Pokéballs will be considered for increase.
  • Price for Luxury ball especially will be increased. Most likely tenfold from what it is now. Alternatively/In addition, the effects of the Luxury Ball may be diminished. As of now, until this matter is resolved, players are limited to purchasing 2 Luxury Balls a week.
  • A free Premier Ball will be rewarded when purchasing 10 Pokéballs of any kind, rather than just regular Pokéballs.

  • Incognito Island will close down due to updator stress and our need to focus attention on the other zones we have. There is still a chance for it to open in the future. All current adventures in Incognito Island are allowed to be finished up in 4 more updates or less.
  • To make up for this, - and because players receive zone rewards in the form of Pokédollars for which they need more exchange options - evolution items will be made purchasable in the Department Store at a relatively high cost, with items appearing in rotation. See details below
  • Mega Stones and Z-Stones will remain zone-exclusive.

If there is a price that you believe needs to be re-evaluated and has not been mentioned above, then please state it in this thread for discussion.

-----

Evolution Items:
There are currently 25 different evolution-inducing items. Each month, 3 random items will be RNG'd and made purchasable at the Department Store. This means that some items may be present for multiple months, while others may not appear for a while. These items can of course still be obtained in regular zones, as they've always been. The price will be the same for all evolution items.
This set-up and the costs are an initial proposal set forth and not the final product. Topic is still up for debate.

Evolution Stones:
$1,000 Dawn Stone
$1,000 Dusk Stone
$1,000 Fire Stone
$1,000 Ice Stone
$1,000 Leaf Stone
$1,000 Moon Stone
$1,000 Shiny Stone
$1,000 Sun Stone
$1,000 Thunder Stone
$1,000 Water Stone

Evolution Items:
$1,000 Deep Sea Scale
$1,000 Deep Sea Tooth
$1,000 Dragon Scale
$1,000 Dubious Disc
$1,000 Electirizer
$1,000 King's Rock
$1,000 Magmarizer
$1,000 Metal Coat
$1,000 Oval Stone
$1,000 Prism Scale
$1,000 Protector
$1,000 Razor Claw
$1,000 Razor Fang
$1,000 Reaper Cloth
$1,000 Sachet
$1,000 Up-Grade
$1,000 Whipped Dream
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:26 AM   #2
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RE: The Pokeball discussion, they're currently:
$25 – Pokéball
$35 – Great Ball
$50 – Ultra Ball
$50 – Dive Ball, Dusk Ball, Heal Ball, Nest Ball, Net Ball, Quick Ball, Repeat Ball, Timer Ball
$150 – Luxury Ball

According to the Department Store OP.

Ingame prices are:
Pokeball- $300
Great Ball- $600
Ultra Ball- $1200
Heal Ball- $300
Other special balls- $1000

Personally I'd advocate that we put everything to half the ingame price, with the exception of the Luxury Ball being at full price and the Heal Ball joining the other non-regular Pokeballs.. This results in:
$150 – Pokéball
$300 – Great Ball
$600 – Ultra Ball
$500 – Dive Ball, Dusk Ball, Heal Ball, Nest Ball, Net Ball, Quick Ball, Repeat Ball, Timer Ball
$1000 – Luxury Ball

Thoughts?
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:04 PM   #3
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I'm putting this here right now, I absolutely cannot finish Mask's II adventure in four or less updates. I can keep it as short as possible, but that's not happening, flat out. Sorry, but I had no warning on this and their adventure has just started. You know I can be quick about it, but unless I just hurl prizes at them and tell them to gtfo, it's not four updates.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:17 PM   #4
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I'm pretty happy with the proposed changes, although I think $1000 for an unnatural MT is a bit steep. Maybe $750? Just a suggestion but 4 replies worth is a lot of money considering the increase in prices across the board. Additionally I think considering it is a month at a time, the rotation of evolutionary items might be a little low. Maybe if you went 2 stones rng'd and 2 evo items rng'd?? TM prices I think are fine. Also like Iron's Pokeball prices.

Is there going to be a way to make more money? Hopefully zones pick up and more replies happen but a lot of these prices are going to quickly burn through those who don't update imo.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:46 PM   #5
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Pointing out that evolution items, while still random, should be guaranteed to appear at least once per calendar year. Nobody wants to have that one item that just flat out does not show up for years on end.
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:05 PM   #6
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TM prices:
I'm fine with them going up at least somewhat, personally. I'm not really good with working out exactly what the prices ought to be, all I can say is that I'm cool with the prices I've seen in the TM development thread.

MT price increases:
...my inner cheapskate is throwing a tantrum right now lol. Natural MT moves going up to 500, I guess I can roll with that. Unnatural MTs going to 1,000, though... That I'm a bit iffy about. I'm inclined to agree with TKF on this one- maybe make them 750 instead?

MT services only taking one week per payment:
This I like. This, I think, will be what gets me to start dropping stuff off to learn multiple moves at once- I haven't done this so far because I like to take the shops one week at a time, because plans change, priorities change, and so forth.

Heart Scales for levels or moves:
HELL. YES. I like this. I like this a lot. Now, here's what I'd like clarified- is it just ten levels per Heart Scale, or ten levels per Pokémon? Say this goes into effect by next Monday, and I decide to drop off Blinky and Inky, my pair of level 8 Darumaka, and I throw in my Heart Scale. Does it make both Blinky and Inky gain 10 levels apiece that week so I pick up a pair of level 18 Darumaka the following week? Do I have to pick whether the Heart Scale goes to Blinky or Inky, so I pick up a level 18 Darumaka and a level 9 Darumaka the following week? Or can it be split between them, so I could pick up a pair of level 13 Darumaka the following week?

Poké Ball prices increases:
Not sure about this in general. I never had a problem with the current Poké Ball prices for the most part.

Luxury Ball changes:
This one I can agree with. It's very, very tempting as it is to just go hog-wild on Luxury Balls and house all the things in them for a big, beautiful head start on Bond all around. In fact, were it not for some of the Poké Ball plans I have for my team, I might have caved in to that temptation more than I already have. I don't know about diminishing the effects, though- I'm thinking either jack up the price OR dumb down the effects. One or the other, maybe. Both, however, I feel might be overkill, If you do both, the ball might no longer be worth the insane price. I guess it depends on how much we're talking diminishing the effects by, personally.

Free Premier Ball with any 10 Balls:
YES. This is how it was in X and Y, this is how it ought to have remained in Gen VII, this is how it just always ought to be.

Incognito Isle:
I can see the need to focus more on the other zones, but Meetan raises a good point about the four-update limit on finishing up adventures- for some updators, that might simply not be enough. I think that's the sort of thing that should be taken into consideration, though I'd definitely say prevent new intro posts at the moment if we're closing down the zone for the time being. Maybe the four update limit could be made a guideline, and updators just asked to move their adventures along as quickly as they're able to? I don't like the idea of rushing updators, or forcing them to wrap things up quicker than they were planning on doing. It could have a negative impact on the story.

Evolution items for sale:
Maybe I'm just biased because I'm in the market for something of that sort at the moment, but this gets my vote. Agreed with Sneaze- each evolution item should be guaranteed to show up at least once per year. It should remain random, but not to the point where sheer dumb luck ends up meaning nobody can buy Thunder Stones until the year 2023 or something like that, y'know?

Mega Stones/Z-Crystals zone exclusive:
This hasn't been a problem thus far, at least as not as far as I'm aware. I haven't had a problem with it yet, I don't think I'm suddenly gonna have a problem with it now.

~~~


One more thing I'd like to bring up would be the notion of paying the Daycare for extra levels gained in a single week. Like, I drop off my level 7 Binacle by himself (normally +2 levels), and also throw in a payment of... I dunno, 1,000 for him to gain five extra levels (200 per level), resulting in a level 14 Binacle the following week. The price I gave, of course, is merely for the sake of example- if you all feel it should cost more, or cost less, then by all means, change it however you need to.
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:16 PM   #7
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I'm writing from my phone, but regarding II, I'll paraphrase what I said on discord. It's unfortunate that we have to close II even if it's only temporary, but at the moment updaters are stretched too thin in FB and the vast majority of adventures in II haven't even gotten a whiff of evolution items which defeats the entire purpose of the zone. As we clarified on discord, the 4 update limit to finish off adventures wasn't meant to be a hard cap. We simply want things to wrap up quickly and not drag out much longer. If you are able to finish off an II adventure before new years that is fine.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKnightsFury View Post
I'm pretty happy with the proposed changes, although I think $1000 for an unnatural MT is a bit steep. Maybe $750? Just a suggestion but 4 replies worth is a lot of money considering the increase in prices across the board. Additionally I think considering it is a month at a time, the rotation of evolutionary items might be a little low. Maybe if you went 2 stones rng'd and 2 evo items rng'd?? TM prices I think are fine. Also like Iron's Pokeball prices.

Is there going to be a way to make more money? Hopefully zones pick up and more replies happen but a lot of these prices are going to quickly burn through those who don't update imo.
Same for those of us who do update if updatees don't reply or one doesn't have many.
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:28 PM   #9
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Sigh.

As someone who's used Luxury Balls since before the advent of bond, I can't help but feel slighted by all of this, somehow...

...moving on from my petty complaints...

I too am more or less fine with Iron's suggested prices.

I know for a fact Balmund's II adventure also can't be wrapped up in any quick order.

I'd rather have evolutionary items be more expensive (2-5k) and readily available than 1k and unpredictably rotating.

That's all I got, for now.

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Old 11-30-2017, 10:31 AM   #10
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First of all, thank you guys for continuing to invest time into perfecting the game. It's heartwarming to see this kind of dedication, considering the state of this game less than a year ago.

I'll be brief here: I am in complete agreement with all of the changes proposed here, and the obvious effort to streamline what can be simplified; the one exception is unnatural MT prices, which I feel are slightly excessive or, at the very least, lack some degree of basic scaling as was suggested for TMs. While I would be okay with paying 1k for Outrage, I most certainly am not for Water Pulse, for example (especially looking at TM prices, where the overall money being asked per move is considerably lower and they, too, are universal per FB's current rules). Either set the bar a little bit lower ($750?) or introduce some very basic tiers that stratify this investment.

As a side note, Sniz's advice is also a wise one. Ideally, all evolution items should be made available in the shop within some predefined time-span, rather than completely randomized every time they change.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:03 PM   #11
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Okay, it’s been a week so I think we can continue with answering some of the questions.
First off, I’ll be providing my own opinion on some of these matters and not that of the moderators as a whole.

Proposed Pokéball prices
Iron’s prices seem fair enough to me to use in the future. Where Pokéballs are concerned, I’m even willing to make them free if needed, letting players only pay for the special Pokéballs if they want something special for their Pokémon.

Luxury Balls
The $1,000 price proposed for these sounds fair enough to me. Any higher and players would probably be thrown off buying them, especially when there are other things to purchase. However, a 15 Bond point increase seems excessive when there’s a max of 50 to begin with. I’d prefer lowering it to 10 Bond Points with the price of $1,000, which is still a whole tier higher in Bond levels where you’d gain new benefits.

Unnatural MT prices
The reason this is so high is because, personally, I consider unnatural moves to be something you’d really want to teach a Pokémon, not something that can be as easily thrown on a Pokémon as any other move it could naturally learn.

Evolution Item Rotation
The number of 2 is indeed set rather low. I’d happily increase it to 4, or even 5 if need be. The randomness was done purposefully. I considered the purchase option to be a way of obtaining these items as a supplement to getting them in zones (as well as events, give-aways, etc.), and not as the conventional way. Making the rotation random seemed like a good way to do it, even if some items may not appear for a while (which, yes, I was aware of).
If the majority wants the purchase option to be a more dependable method, then you won’t hear me object. I’m fine with ensuring each item has an annual slot, but, then each month will only have 2-3 items and so each item will only appear once a year. I’m fine with increasing the number of items a month, or having a more regular yearly rotation, but preferably not both.

Heart Scale specifics
The question was asked on Discord whether Pokémon with max. Bond Points would gain double levels from the Heart Scale. For now, I’m going to go with ‘No’. They’re simply meant for you to have 10 extra levels for you to give to your Pokémon.
In the same vein, it’s 10 levels you can distribute across your Pokémon, not 10 each, or, it’s 5 MT moves you can distribute across your Pokémon, not 5 each.
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Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 12-04-2017 at 06:28 PM. Reason: I revoke my clause on free Pokéballs now
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:27 PM   #12
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I'm fine with the Bond fix on Luxuries. Pokeball pricings, I proposed them so...

For Evo items, there's 27 of them. Assuming each is forced at least once a year, three a month is the absolute minimum, with nine getting doubled up. I'd personally advocate three a year, with the stones getting the overflow because quite simply they're more likely to be needed. I'd probably say put it at one guaranteed random evolutionary stone and then RNG the other 2 slots on an exhaustive annual reel featuring all? That way it's 3 items a month, with a slight bias towards evolutionary stones going in because bluntly, that's the shit that's more likely to be needed. The non-stone items are for one mon each, maybe two. Each evo stone works for at least two lines, frequently more. Therefore to me, it should be for the three slots:
Item 1, pulled from a pool of both stones and items.
Item 2, pulled from a pool of both stones and items.
Item 3, pulled from a pool of just stones.

Obviously once put in the store the item's removed from the pool until next year. Thoughts?

For TMs/MTs... I hate to be the guy to overcomplicate shit, but I feel this needs addressing in a thread of its own. TMs are never going to fit into a 'one size fits all' price bracket. Ideally, I'd combine TMs with the MT and have set prices for each move, based on power, usability and RP utility, which'd extend into the moves currently offered by the MT. Have TMs still be given as rewards, but they're a free tutoring of said move rather than paying, and also extend into the MT movepool. Basically, merge the TM list and the MT list into one superlist that can be bought in the MT, with TMs being essentially a free learning of whatever move they're for.
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Admiral Insane View Post
Heart Scale specifics
The question was asked on Discord whether Pokémon with max. Bond Points would gain double levels from the Heart Scale. For now, I’m going to go with ‘No’. They’re simply meant for you to have 10 extra levels for you to give to your Pokémon.
In the same vein, it’s 10 levels you can distribute across your Pokémon, not 10 each, or, it’s 5 MT moves you can distribute across your Pokémon, not 5 each.
So are these Heart Scale levels separate from the regular dropoffs, or does it replace the normal dropoff we would normally do? Like, do we drop off our Pokemon and get 10 levels on one Pokemon or five levels for two Pokemon, or do they just get used independent of the dropoff and give levels divided among up to 10 Pokemon?

As far as Luxury Balls are concerned, if the Bond gain for them gets lowered, will older Luxury Balls be retroactively changed so they only give 10 Bond, or will we have to distinguish between which ones give 10 Bond and which ones give 15?

Other than that, I guess the one issue for me is Pokeballs being made free, even if it's just for regular Pokeballs. While it would be nice to not have to keep track of how many Pokeballs we have and not worry about needing to buy more, what's to stop someone from saying, "I throw INFINITE Pokeballs at this one Pokemon!!" Even if we say they can only throw one at a time per reply, they can still say, "I throw INFINITE Pokeballs at a Pokemon, though one at a time because rules say so..." And even if that trainer runs out of Pokemon, and the wild Pokemon decides that isn't enough and goes for the trainer, that trainer can still say, "I run away...and throw INFINITE Pokeballs one at a time while running away because that will either slow down the Pokemon while it breaks free or just be lucky enough to straight up catch it!" See, without the updater just going, "YOU DIE!" there's going to be someone at some point who tries to break the game and will likely succeed in doing so because of it. Remember, even if everyone turns out to be reasonable, we have to be aware of how someone can break the game and address the problem somehow to make sure it is as robust as possible.

With that in mind, I propose that, if we make Pokeballs free, there should be a limit to how many Pokeballs that can be used. In addition to that, because purchasing Pokeballs is normally the main way to obtain Premier Balls, we should probably make Premier Balls purchasable because Pokeballs being free would mean Premier Balls become more difficult to come by due to being obtained only by buying other special Pokeballs.

Other than that, the rest of the changes, including Iron's pricing for all of the Pokeballs, seem fine to me.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:11 PM   #14
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Just figured I’d come in here and say that I like the changes that were proposed for the MT. I really like the idea of being able to just give people all of the moves immediately at the end of the week that they purchased them if the prices increase. I also feel that the prices are fair. I personally feel that $1000 for an unnatural MT move is reasonable since it’s something that is very special compared to the natural moves and should be given to a Pokemon after a decent amount of consideration.

I don’t have much to add when it comes to any of the other topics since I don’t feel strongly about much and the main points of concern (making sure that all of the evolution items show up, etc.) seem to have been mentioned already. I just figured I’d throw in my opinion on the MT since I run the shop.
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:54 PM   #15
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Okay here are a few summations of the discussion that we are looking to place into effect:

1. As Iron proposed, here would be the new prices of Pokeballs:
$150 – Pokéball
$300 – Great Ball
$600 – Ultra Ball
$500 – Dive Ball, Dusk Ball, Heal Ball, Nest Ball, Net Ball, Quick Ball, Repeat Ball, Timer Ball
$1000 – Luxury Ball

Additionally, a Premier Ball will be awarded if you purchase 10 of any variety of ball.
Luxury Balls will now give a boost of 10 Bond, opposed to the original 15 Bond. There will be no changes or backlogging to bond and Luxury Balls already in effect.

2. Heart Scales will now act as a voucher for either: 10 additional levels at the daycare (Max Bond effect not included), or 5 natural moves at the Move Tutor.

3. As for MT prices and evolution items appearing in the Department Store: I'd still like to see a little more discussion on these two subjects before we wrap up discussion here.

If anyone has any remaining questions or discussion on the first two points, make them now before they are placed into effect.
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:54 AM   #16
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Wanted to weigh in.

I like the first two changes, I have no qualms with it whatsoever. I do think Luxury Balls should be more of a 'Luxury' persay. :P

Quote:
Evolution Items:
There are currently 25 different evolution-inducing items. Each month, 3 random items will be RNG'd and made purchasable at the Department Store. This means that some items may be present for multiple months, while others may not appear for a while. These items can of course still be obtained in regular zones, as they've always been. The price will be the same for all evolution items.
This set-up and the costs are an initial proposal set forth and not the final product. Topic is still up for debate.
Okay. I really really really like this idea. It gives more incentive to hope you get what you want from a zone, but it also allows you to maybe snag it from the shop if you've been having some issues. The one thing I would like to maybe say is upping it to 4? Mostly because I just like even numbers.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:21 AM   #17
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First off, someone can't count. There's 27 in the list provided, not 25.

I still advocate my 'two random items and a random stone' idea. Still random, but there'll always be a stone on offer because in all honesty they're what's needed slightly more than the other items.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:31 AM   #18
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I don't have much to say here, but I thought of something: in the randomisation of which evolution items are sold, perhaps we should make sure that not the same item(s) shows up two months in a row? It'll sill give a chance for an item to appear a few times within a year, but at least it'll remove a bit of the frustration of seeing the same item being sold again.

Edit: Otherwise everything else is good.
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