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Old 08-31-2012, 07:52 PM   #51
Talon87
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I have not. Elaborate.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:16 PM   #52
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The details are messy.

Spoiler: show
SAO's author turned the story into a hentai when he published it on the web. He added a Chapter 16.5 to Volume 1 that included a lurid H scene with dialogue so quotable Kinoko Nasu likely borrowed some of Reki Kawahara's notes on human female biology. I don't even want to spoil it for you, if you can find a transcript of it online it's worth reading just because it crystal clarifies the true nature of the creativity that went into SAO.

When the novel was published, Chapter 16.5 was removed and retroactively declared non-canon (just the scene, not the encounter!), but BakaTsuki had it up for a while until the piece became so widely circulated, it sabotaged SAO's impression among a lot of viewers circa week 2/3. I heard about it during week 4.


Literally the most iconic line in the entire series comes from that chapter.

...

Eureka, I've found it!
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:20 PM   #53
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Can you link me to where I can read it? ^^;

Also, I read something on UTW's blog about an H scene that vanished from the anime (and then Raze later found out from the published books as well) but it had to do with Lizbeth's episode which is nowhere near Weeks 2, 3, or 4.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:27 PM   #54
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^^^^

Took a while to get it, there were a number of troll edits that made it out to be Kirito x Klein. D:
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:42 PM   #55
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How is this Week 2 material? This sounds like it would come way after where we are in the series right now. Which, in fact, would seem to be indicated by the chapter heading of 16.5! I'm going to quit reading where I am for right now but yeah I definitely see the Kinoko Nasu-esque writing for the sexually explicit stuff. As for the "quote of the series," I don't think I saw it (I skim-read through line 80 in that document) and don't tell me what it is either 'cause I want to see if they say it in the show or not.

But yeah, that's pretty, uhh, not PG-13.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:30 AM   #56
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I meant that the light novel community spilled the beans around Week 2/3, and I heard about the chapter in Week 4. There wasn't much communication between the LN camp and the anime camp, but this chapter definitely raised some eyebrows.

Incidentally, it's kind of a microcosm of SAO as a whole - a palatable dish doused in nasty dressing and clumsily cooked and presented. There's a few interesting ideas that frame the H in context of the series, but in the end, it's as corny as corn-bread.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:36 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Oh god, that thing. Finnish anime circles know it mainly for giving a whole new way to measure how sexy an anime girl is - it started with the math-inclined people going theory-crazy over line 368. "Two years' worth- okay we HAVE TO CALCULATE THIS."

And they did.

So now we have the liter-standard.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:32 PM   #58
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I just finished episode 9. Asuna has now officially lost every and all trace of independence.

Spoiler: show
This episode centered around the boss seen at the end of the last episode. To boil it down, the following happened:

-Kirito and Asuna ran from the boss and started making a battle plan...which somehow lead to Asuna pulling out a picnic basket and the whole conversation falling to "Asuna is an amazing cook and Kirito's little waifu".
-Klein appeared. THANK THE HEAVENS, FINALLY SOMEONE I CARE ABOUT. He and his guild seem to be doing okay, though the whole bunch started going fanboy over Asuna on sight. Kirito punched Klein for making a move on Asuna.
-The dumbest liberation army I've ever seen arrived at the scene, asked Kirito for the map of the dungeon and walked straight into the boss room. Even with Kirito's comments on the whole group being too tired to even stand. But Dumb Commander is Dumb Commander and we need drama.
-Kirito and Asuna both freak out and have flashbacks when, surprise surprise, the boss is slaughtering the Liberation Army of Dumb.
-After some unnecessary hesitation Kirito decides to pull off his new ability, Dual Blade. Which is exactly what it sounds like, two swords in use for the price of one. Kirito then kills the boss all on his own.
-Discussion about Kirito's new ability - which no one else has ever heard of and Kirito has no idea how he got it. Klein drops in the term Unique Skill, which will most likely become a pain in the future episodes.
-Asuna has an "I LOVE YOU I MUST SPEND TIME WITH YOU KIRITO"-moment and decides to take a break from her guild.
-The guild doesn't take this too well. Guild leader challenges Kirito to a duel: if Kirito wins, Asuna can leave (because hey, a vice-commander in a high-class guild is utterly uncapable of just saying "I'll leave" and then leaving!), if he loses Kirito has to join the guild.

Okay, I thought Asuna was a strong, independent young woman, but oh no. Her role has turned into being Kirito's personal lunch lady. If, for crying out loud, she wants to do something against the wishes of the guild, Kirito has to be there to get it done for her. Two guys fighting over Asuna AGAIN.

Bitch, you have a sword too, USE IT! Or is it against the rules for girls to take part in duels or is there something else I'm missing? Asuna's becoming the epitome of sovinist ideals in all senses of the term. I'm just waiting on "Kirito's wishes are my wishes". *feminist on a roll*
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:26 PM   #59
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Never read that light novel chapter until now.

Lol.

Episode 9...I dunno, didn't like the ending, rest was fine.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:15 AM   #60
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Episode 9 was a mixed bag. (Funny, so was Episode 20 of Hyouka! ) There were aspects I liked and aspects I disliked. And just like with my Hyouka post earlier tonight, we'll have to go into the spoiler box if we want to discuss it in detail.

Spoiler: show
Things I disliked about this episode: I didn't like how Asuna is continuing to be marginalized as Kirito's waifu-to-be. The way she freaked out after the battle about having almost lost Kirito was the sort of thing you'd expect from a lover, not from a crush who hasn't even formally become the character's girlfriend yet. Like kaisap points out, it's kind of crazy that Asuna can't speak for herself regarding her decision to leave the guild. Why is Kirito fighting for her? The whole scene reeks of the following roles:
  • Kirito: suitor
  • Asuna: daughter to be wed
  • Heathcliff: father of the bride-to-be who is telling the suitor "I'll only permit my daughter to marry you if you can beat me"
Even in the marriage scenario it's still kind of chauvinistic to act like the girl doesn't get a say or that she can't stand up to her own father and say "Now look, Daddy. I am marrying Kirito whether you like it or not!" But it's not even the marriage scenario: this is, as kaisap points out, the vice-commander of the guild telling the commander "I resign." Why would the commander then require Kirito to beat him? It only makes sense through the chauvinist lens of Kawahara Reki: view it any other which way and it's just silly.

Another point kaisap mentions that I too disliked was how the stupid other guild seemed to be written in by Reki purely because the drama demanded it. We needed someone to go waltz into the dragon's lair in order to justify Asuna barging in alone in order to justify Kirito barging in after her and this is what Reki came up with. But it's dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb! How would someone that stupid get to be a high-ranking officer within the guild? How would someone with that poor of judgment have the leadership skills it takes to command the respect of his men? It felt like very sloppy writing: a guild we've never even heard of before suddenly appears on the scene, is given a sloppy backstory, rushes in to conquer a foe far beyond their abilities, and gets their asses handed to them requiring Kirito to come and save the day.

Things I liked about this episode: Asuna is quite cute. They're starting to press the moe buttons with her and it's working. ^^; Chauvinistic Reki's depiction of her may be but hot damn if she isn't cute. Screencaps were taken.

Great to see Asuna leave the guild, great to see the story moving along at a good pace now, neither too fast nor too slow.

I liked how Lizbeth's sword turned out to be a hidden equipment of Kirito's and one he only busts out in dire circumstances. Kinda cool.

I really like how you can definitely tell that we're finally on a solid, continuous, singular plot thread. The story-of-the-week crap is over and done with for now, it seems, and it looks like episodes 8 (last week), 9 (this week), and 10 (next week) are all part of the same thread ... and there's no reason to believe that will be the terminus of that thread either. Which is great.

Things I am split on about this episode: I'm not sure whether I like Kirito's ability or not. Should it really be so special that someone can wield two swords at once? Why shouldn't the game ordinarily allow that? I realize that most/all of Kirito's swordsmanship and the others' swordsmanship as well comes from the game gifting it to them and not because IRL they are amazing with the sword; but like, if his other arm is not a limp wrist, if it's an arm that can be used, why shouldn't the game allow him to put a sword in that hand and use it at least nearly as well if not as well as the sword in his dominant hand? Is wielding two swords really so special that it should've been a secret ability? Perhaps most distressing of all, why should the addition of a second sword suddenly make Kirito a boss-slaying badass? I really would like to know. Does Kawahara Reki ask us to believe that two Kiritos could have slain this boss and that this is made evident by the fact that a single Kirito wielding dual swords was able to slay it? Or did having two swords in hand allow Kirito to pull off some magical spell (spoiler: it obviously did , we all saw it) which dealt damage equivalent to what, say, ten or twenty regular Kiritos would have done? If it's the latter Reki is asking us to believe, then I want to know why he expects us to believe it, how he explains that the mere addition of a second sword to one's hands allows one to cast a spell that is equivalent to the Gate of Babylon raining blades upon you? This may sound pretty negative, but I placed this point here under the "I'm not sure if I like it or not" category for a reason: I'm not sure if I like it or not. It was cool to see and at least somewhat exciting but yeah there are all these groan-inducing logical problems with it. ^^;

Another thing I'm not sure about is how Kirito activates this ability. It appears to be the case that he has to sacrifice every last ounce of his health right on down to 1 HP and that by doing so he either (a) powers up the spell or (b) unlocks the spell. That's kind of dramatic, I guess, and will presumably make future battles tense once we realize he's always one breath away from death. But it's also kind of a hollow dramatic plot point because we all know that there are like ten novels in this series and it's highly unlikely that Kirito has died and stayed dead in any of them. Died, maybe. Stayed dead, no, I don't think so. Hell, I wouldn't be half-surprised if he dies at the end of this very first novel ... and if it turns out that when you die, "PSYYYYYYYYYYYYYCH! ", you're still alive on the outside and you're finally returned to consciousness.

Final thing I'm not sure about ... is something I'm just frankly not sure about. ^^; And that's all of the Sachi flashbacks Kirito had. Now that I know that ...

(spoiler from the opening pages of the second light novel)
Spoiler: show
... all of the so-called "side story" episodes were in fact chapters that Reki wrote after he wrote the original story of Sword Art Online and which were published together as Volume 2 of the light novel series ...

... I have to wonder whether those flashbacks were in the original novel or not. 'Cause like, it seems to me like that was the animation studio's way of trying to address observant fans' criticisms of Reki's terrible plot holes the seeming contradiction between Kirito's words and Kirito's experiences in previous episodes. To be specific -- when Reki has Kirito express surprise over the fact that teleportation stones cannot be used in this boss lair, the astute viewer realizes that this was already the case in both the Sachi and the Lizbeth episodes. And while Sachi we could try and rationalize away as being "just some secret room with bad guy minions in it," Lizbeth's dragon was very much a boss-like character. Sure, he wasn't formally a boss, but that makes it all the worse! 'Cause like, if Kirito knew that even non-boss beasts could thwart the teleportation stones, then he must've anticipated that bosses would eventually thwart the stones as well! And I think the animators realized that viewers would catch this contradiction ... so they inserted the Sachi flashbacks as a sort of "We're going to beat you to the punch! " countermeasure. "If we bring up Sachi before you can bring up Sachi, then you'll have to acknowledge that we knew about it before you criticized it ... and thus this is all according to plan! ^^;;;;;;" But like, I'm not buying the animation team's bluff. ^^; I think the far more obvious answer is:

(spoiler from the opening pages of the second light novel)
Spoiler: show
Kawahara Reki isn't a very good author, he fucked up, and the fact of the matter is that when he wrote stuff happening in the side stories, he took ideas in his head biased from his experiences of penning the first novel and he implemented those ideas ... even though many/most of the side stories took place chronologically before Kirito and Asuna took on this dungeon.

All in all, it was just another week in Sword Art Online. Within this series, I feel like Episode 9 was an above average episode and I am not ashamed to admit that I enjoyed watching it. Outside of this series, it was rife with problems (some of them insulting) and it reinforces my belief that Sword Art Online is not a great anime. Entertaining, sure, but not great.

Last edited by Talon87; 09-04-2012 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:23 PM   #61
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Dumb, dumb, dumb! How would someone that stupid get to be a high-ranking officer within the guild? How would someone with that poor of judgment have the leadership skills it takes to command the respect of his men?
I instantly thought of George W. Bush. And Reagan. "Last best hope of man on Earth".
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:10 PM   #62
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Alright, episode 10. Talon will love all the Asuna-waifu-ism that happens in this episode. I, on the other hand, facepalmed so hard my hand almost went through my face.

Spoiler: show
So the fight for Asuna's hand between Heathcliff and Kirito happened. Lo and behold, for the first time ever, Kirito gloriously lost the battle and had to join the guild - which includes wearing a ridiculous outfit that looks awful on him. Heathcliff also seems to be a game-breaker and no one has anything against it.

This bothers me already: a guy who can raise his attack and defense as well as do some time-stopping-thing that helps him win everything and everyone so easily that his health bar has never hit even yellow. No one is bothered by this. Kirito's a beta tester and everyone hates his guts. Anyone else see something really weird here?

With Kirito in the guild, a guild boss makes the best decision ever: he lumps himself, Kirito and the A-Hole Knight from the previous episodes in the same training group. Crystals taken away for the duration of a skill assessment. Only the three of them going.

This whole setting is screaming "danger from the inside" so very loudly it hurts my ears.

So what else could happen other than A-Hole Knight paralyzing the other two through the water supply and then killing off the commander whose bright idea this was in the first place. It is also revealed that A-Hole is a member of a criminal guild, Laughing Coffins. Guess what the main hobby of this guild is?

As Kirito is almost 1HP away from death, Asuna appears to save his ass. This leads to a battle where Asuna is as gullible as ever, Kirito has to save her, Kirito loses a hand and kills A-Hole in the process. This leads to dramatic, teary-eyed conversations, which leads to the two making the decision to move in together and get married.

I'll break down the last part a bit here:

After the battle, Asuna and Kirito have dinner. Kirito's hand has been resurrected at this point. With the meal eaten, Asuna turns off the lights and starts stripping. Then she tells Kirito to start stripping as well. All the while we have the cliche blushing and "don't look at me" going on (because, you know, no way Asuna could've stripped in another room or anything!). Kirito then expresses that he only wants to sleep in the same room with her.

Asuna calls Kirito an idiot and power-punches him.

Now, here's where I lose grasp of what the hell the writer was thinking. This might be a culture thing, but I personally wouldn't get mad at a guy for thinking I want to get it on with him if I start stripping in front of him for no clear reason. If this scene was about changing into pajamas, Asuna lives in a goddamn mansion with tons of rooms she could use to get changed. But no, Kirito is there so he must get full-on fanservice and tsundere action. *facepalm*

The proposal itself happened as follows: Asuna is under blanket in bed, giving the image that she is indeed naked and Kirito is sitting on the bed fully clothed. He states that they will move into a house on Floor 22 and get married. No asking or anything, he states this like a common fact. Asuna does not question this in any way, instead crying her eyes out and agreeing with him. Kirito doesn't smile, he is wearing on his face the most serious expression I've seen, like he's prepping for a boss battle instead of marrying the girl he's attracted to.

Alright, we all knew these two were going to end up together from the moment they appeared on the same screen. What I don't like is Asuna's continuing downfall to a girl with no mind or opinions of her own, instead following Kirito around like a little puppy. I fail to remember the last time she was truly an independent badass instead of "KIRITO SAVE ME!". x.x

But now that we've finally got the main couple together, I hope the show can focus on more interesting issues, like the Laughing Coffins, Klein and other characters we've met so far. There isn't a whole lot further Asuna can be bitch-slapped to anymore.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:43 PM   #63
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Episode 10 was the first episode of the series I'd call great, warts and all. It was clearly written for me and no matter how much Doppel or kaisap try to crow about chauvinism here all I'm seeing is a hopeless romantic's (perhaps naive) take on the dream union between man and woman. And I thought it was great. I disagree with kaisap's frustration that Asuna is being treated like a powerless damsel in distress who can't wipe her own ass. The Asuna on display in this episode kicked major ass.

Spoiler: show
Getting fooled by Kuradeel might've been naive of her but it's no different than how Godfrey was naive too. The author was simply trying to set up the perfect situation where both Asuna saved Kirito's life and Kirito saved Asuna's, not because he's trying to show that Asuna is a helpless little girly-girl who can't do anything without big, strong Kirito there to protect her but because he needed that scene to set up for the pre-marital oaths the two swore to one another. Kawahara Reki appears to strongly feel that in the ideal marriage the husband lives for his wife and the wife lives for her husband. To him, this is romantic. And I think it's a romantic concept myself. But I can also appreciate that to others, it's a sick, naive interpretation of what a healthy marriage should be about. In another anime, NHK ni Youkoso, they actually address this counterargument. NHK ni Youkoso argues that people who define themselves in terms of their marriage to someone else are not living healthily. That is to say, it's neither spiritually nor psychiatrically ideal to say "I live for my wife." NHK argues, and many would argue, that a man must first and foremost live for himself. He must be able to take care of himself. NHK argues that if you can't take care of yourself then you can hardly expect to be able to take care of others. Rather, NHK argues that if you can't take care of yourself then you have no business trying to take care of others. Perhaps this is what a lot of people who watch this week's episode of Sword Art Online and hate it believe. Me? I can appreciate both arguments. I can appreciate that in a healthy relationship the man is able to support himself and does not define himself as his wife's keeper. But I can also appreciate that in a loving, romantic relationship the man does swear to protect his lady love at all costs, even at the cost of his own life. That, to me, is incredibly romantic. Call me naive, call me whatever you want, but I love that notion. And it seems that Kawahara Reki does too. And that's why we got the episode we got this week, with Asuna rescuing a Kirito who couldn't save himself followed by Kirito rescuing an Asuna who was about to get killed. It's not that Kawahara wants to depict Asuna as a weak female in need of rescuing. If it were, he wouldn't have depicted Kirito the very same way not but two minutes earlier. It's simply because he wants to show that in what he considers to be the ideal marriage the husband and the wife make up for each other's shortcomings and are there to save each other.


You are fighting so, so hard for the position of Waifu of the Year.

Regarding the Asuna strip scene, I think kaisap's misunderstood why Asuna got embarrassed, then angry, and finally punched Kirito in the face. It wasn't because (as kaisap thought) she was embarrassed that Kirito was thinking of her in connection with sex. Just as you wrote, kaisap, it'd be stupid for somebody to get upset over that when they were the one doing the stripping voluntarily in the first place. No, the reason why Asuna got upset was because she felt that Kirito had embarrassed her by leaving her hanging like this. She had mistaken Kirito's "I want to spend the night with you" as a stereotypically Japanese euphemistic way of saying "I want to make love to you tonight." What he had in fact envisioned was simply sharing the same bed as her. So when he tells her this, it makes her embarrassed: 'cause here she is having born body and soul to this guy and it turns out he's (quote unquote) "stood her up" and didn't intend to have sex with her anyway. Does that make sense? I may need to try and explain it better if it doesn't. Anyway, Asuna's embarrassment was understandable given what we know about her. Stereotypical otome character.

So what all did I think about the episode myself?

Spoiler: show
The duel was interesting but I would have liked to have seen more and I wish that it had been more than "whoever gets the first hit wins." It would have been better if it had been "whoever gets the first hit wins that bout but it's the best 2 out of 3 bouts." Or if it had been "only one bout but it goes until one of us is in the yellow" or "at 50% HP" or something. I actually didn't have any problem with Heathcliff's special ability but I think kaisap's been very astute in pointing out that it smells kinda fishy that no one treats Heathcliff like an outcast or that his ability is such common knowledge whereas Kirito was treated like an outcast and he kept his ability a secret for fear of the repercussions which would befall him once people found out about it. Perhaps Heathcliff was one of the people who helped to create SAO? Perhaps he knows more than he lets on? Who knows.

Godfrey seemed like a nice guy but yeah that was pretty obvious to us as audience members watching an entertaining story that Kuradeel was going to try to pull something over on Kirito. It's a shame that Godfrey got roped up in it and perhaps paid the ultimate price for his naivety.

I wonder if Kuradeel joined the Laughing Coffin after Kirito humiliated him in the duel or if he had been a part of the Laughing Coffin all along. I am guessing the former, the reason being that we saw a mysterious hooded figure observing their duel and seeming quite interested in the result. Perhaps they were a Laughing Coffin scout and they extended an invitation to Kuradeel once they saw how bitter he was about losing to Kirito. "We'll give you an opportunity to get back at him if you join us. ;3" I guess we'll find out in due time.

Man, Kuradeel made some really creepy faces this week. >_> Good thing we won't have to see them any more. (I hope.)

When Asuna came to the rescue, I thought it was awesome. "NOBODY, I MEAN NOBODY, LAYS A FINGER ON MY MAN! " Call it what you want but I call it awesome. Go Asuna!

When Kirito lost his hand, and the animation team made a big point of showing it disintegrating and showing Kirito with a new injured status, I figured he might've lost it for good or at least for a long while and that that'd basically put an end to his dual sword wielding ability. I also thought that that was part of what was happening when he skewered Kuradeel's body with his good arm: I thought that maybe he had unlocked a new hidden ability (given the loss of his other hand and the dual wielding ability he'd previously had) and that this new ability allowed his good arm to act like a lance that could one-hit kill any target he skewered with it. But I guess not? 'Cause he had his hand back in the very next scene? ^^; Whatever.

I liked the proposal even if kaisap is right that Kirito was acting out the rather stereotyped, unrealistic role of the Japanese stoic male who doesn't show his true emotions on his face. But as for Asuna, I felt her response was fine. kaisap's shouting feminist insults at the show kinda heavily now I fear ^^; and while I agree that we've seen a lot of chauvinism in SAO I don't think this was one of those times. ^_^; Asuna didn't object because, duh, he'd just proposed. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that when a man proposes and the woman accepts without saying anything else that (a) that's not how 99% of successful marriage proposals play out and (b) that's a bad thing? C'mon, kaisap. You're upset that Asuna just accepted ... but like, duh she'd just accept: anyone would just accept when they've been given what they want! ^^;

I dunno. I thought this was a great episode, SAO's first. Definitely my favorite SAO episode to date. But I'm pretty sure kaisap is going to have some strong backup in the form of lilbluecorsola if Skype is any indication so sit tight, kaisap! Backup is on its way!
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:46 PM   #64
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I started watching this late, being able to watch through 6 in two days.

It seems clear most of you guys have some low opinions of it, but personally, I like it.


If I may attempt a psycho-analysis of Kirito to explain certain behaviors:

Episode 1:
Spoiler: show

Kirito was a solo player in beta, and made it to room 8, higher than most others in the game. This means he knows most of the lower level tricks and traps. Being a solo MMORPG player myself, I can identify with desiring to go solo, it's faster leveling when you don't have to share exp and rare item drops other players, and getting a leg-up on the competition means he won't be as susceptible to the things that will kill most of the players. You're also not subject to all the internal drama and structure that guilds impose, which might actually limit progression.


Ep 2:
Spoiler: show
He's at the meeting for the boss room because there are some things that solo players just can't get done alone. He needs the group in order to progress, but has no loyalty to them. Basically it's like a Pick-up-Group.
Regarding his assumption of the title Beater, it's probably because of the hostility they others showed him after the leader died, coupled with a general "do-it-myself" attitude. He has big plans right now, and probably a slightly inflated ego due to his personal progress in the beta, he owes no loyalty to the group, and think it will just slow him down.


Ep 3:
Spoiler: show
After some long time soloing, he (assumedly) groups up with a guild to pass another challenge that would be difficult solo. Solo players aren't completely opposed to grouping, but prefer to keep it minimal. After reaping the spoils, he's approached to join the guild. Seeing the friendly atmosphere, and probably getting rather tired of grinding day after day, he grudgingly accepts under pressure. He turns out to enjoy the life, and starts to care about the other members, particularly Sacchi. Then the guild wipe occurs, and unfortunately, on the very worst day for it to occur, the day they accomplish meeting the requirements for a guild house. He's subject to survivors guilt, as well as heavy blame from the guild leader, which heavily influences his perception of guilds. The Leader commits suicide because he has nothing else to live for, all his friends are gone, his guild is gone, and all the work he's done up till now seems to have been for naught.


Ep 4:
Spoiler: show

Kirito's now an established Beater and front line fighter, but has taken a job to imprison a PK guild, which leads him to the lower level rooms. As he's searching for the Pkers, he runs into the other girl, and decides to help her out, probably slightly inspired by his guilt about Sacchi's death, as well as her resemblance to his sister/cousin. He establishes his capability as a player, and his superior strength as a fighter, with the slight coldness-hiding-compassion from his experience as a beater and his terrible loss in the previous episode.
At this point, we understand he doesn't care much for those he can't see, and criminals, but will not abide loss of life in his presence.


Ep 5-6:
Spoiler: show

Seemingly seems to start the ball rolling with Asuna, while explaining further and more intricate points of the game systems.

It's been a very long time now since being trapped in the game, and it's clear people are finally fully accepting the truth of their entrapment. Living is no longer solely about getting out of the game, but about enjoying life as it is, where-ever they may be. Players are moving on, or giving up, and accepting their new life in a virtual world. They may hope for eventually escaping, but it is less of a priority now, and the social interactions, and the little things, are what matter most.


Ep 7:
Spoiler: show

Kirito has already accepted the virtual world as his world, and while he hopes to escape, is starting to project reality on the virtual world. His adventure in this episode builds his character, changing his mind from purely solo player to becoming more cooperative with others, helping soothe his survivor's guilt. It also helps reenforce his projection of reality into the virtual world.


Further analysis possibly pending.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Kawahara Reki appears to strongly feel that in the ideal marriage the husband lives for his wife and the wife lives for her husband. To him, this is romantic. And I think it's a romantic concept myself. But I can also appreciate that to others, it's a sick, naive interpretation of what a healthy marriage should be about.
huh???

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
In another anime, NHK ni Youkoso, they actually address this counterargument. NHK ni Youkoso argues that people who define themselves in terms of their marriage to someone else are not living healthily. That is to say, it's neither spiritually nor psychiatrically ideal to say "I live for my wife." NHK argues, and many would argue, that a man must first and foremost live for himself. He must be able to take care of himself. NHK argues that if you can't take care of yourself then you can hardly expect to be able to take care of others. Rather, NHK argues that if you can't take care of yourself then you have no business trying to take care of others.
Oh, that's where you're going with it.

As a manga reader, I feel you've misinterpreted NHK, but I didn't watch the anime so the ideas might be different. But prior to decaying into a gratuitous NTR fest, NHK the manga pretty much blamed modern Japanese culture as forcing and glorifying a shallow lifestyle that would lead to forsaking the value of anything and everything. Sato's senpai was a perfect example of this, a woman who could never understand love, could not grasp the fundamentals of companionship and was destined for loneliness.

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I actually didn't have any problem with Heathcliff's special ability but I think kaisap's been very astute in pointing out that it smells kinda fishy that no one treats Heathcliff like an outcast or that his ability is such common knowledge whereas Kirito was treated like an outcast and he kept his ability a secret for fear of the repercussions which would befall him once people found out about it. Perhaps Heathcliff was one of the people who helped to create SAO? Perhaps he knows more than he lets on? Who knows.
I had a talk with BBB over this. He thinks Heathcliff is SAO's creator, because that would be the ultimate form of self-indulgence on the part of the author. I'd throw my coins in his bank because, while I doubt that the story would be so pathetic as to have a rich and successful programmer become a demi-god in his creation (why would a king in the real world seek to be a prince in a fake one?) it's pretty obvious to me Heathcliff is a pseudonym. Everyone else in the show has a real Japanese name, and the nicknames are along the lines of "Kuro no Kenshi" or something.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:33 PM   #66
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Everyone else in the show has a real Japanese name, and the nicknames are along the lines of "Kuro no Kenshi" or something.
Silica? Lizbeth? Godfrey? ^^;
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:17 PM   #67
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You caught my implication, but I didn't want to actually go out and say it because I don't know if those names could conceivably be given to Japanese-born kids. Some names like Ken, Amy (Ami) and George (Joji) seem common over there and even if they had Japaneses origin, their relationship to their English language equivalents can't be ignored. At that, what if their names were "Minazuki Silica" or something?

Heathcliff, though, isn't a name I hear often. I put it on the same level as hearing someone call himself Socrates - it's a name with literary significance that never caught on as a popular name online. In the Western mind, it evokes either the Wuthering Heights character or the better known cartoon cat named after him. Given Heathcliff's status in the guild as mysterious and powerful (much like the Bronte character), my gut was it's a self-proclaimed name, and if so it's one with more than a pinch of narcissism.
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:52 PM   #68
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You caught my implication, but I didn't want to actually go out and say it because I don't know if those names could conceivably be given to Japanese-born kids. Some names like Ken, Amy (Ami) and George (Joji) seem common over there and even if they had Japaneses origin, their relationship to their English language equivalents can't be ignored. At that, what if their names were "Minazuki Silica" or something?

Heathcliff, though, isn't a name I hear often. I put it on the same level as hearing someone call himself Socrates - it's a name with literary significance that never caught on as a popular name online. In the Western mind, it evokes either the Wuthering Heights character or the better known cartoon cat named after him. Given Heathcliff's status in the guild as mysterious and powerful (much like the Bronte character), my gut was it's a self-proclaimed name, and if so it's one with more than a pinch of narcissism.
I'm happy to discuss the theories as to why Kawahara chose that name as an author, why the man behind Heathcliff in-universe picked that name for his Aincraid persona, etc. I was just pointing out that it's not correct to say that his is the only non-Japanese name we've heard so far. ^_^;

And you're trying to bend over backwards to defend the argument but Doppel ... it doesn't work! ^_^; Silica is not a common name period, neither in Japan nor anywhere else. Neither is Lizbeth which appears by all accounts to be a corruption of Elizabeth which is 100% Western. (There are probably as many ethnic Japanese with 0% Western family tree influence in the past 100 years named Elizabeth as there are ethnic English named Harumi with 0% Japanese family tree influence over the same time period. ^^; ) And as for the Japanese names you just cherrypicked, you picked a landmine of a name with Nakata Jouji/George's name. That is not a typical Japanese name and immediately, immediately tells you that either (1) it's a pseudonym or (2) he's of mixed parentage. (In George's case, it's a pseudonym. Wikipedia seems to have 100% taken to romanizing it as Jouji given that he has offered kanji for its writing but regardless his legal name is Nakata Hitoshi. And I've seen it written so often as George that I know I'm not alone in hearing it that way. "Jouji" as an ethnic Japanese name is just that uncommon!) As for Ken, Ami, Maria, and so on, yeah, you can find names like these, but they don't sound like their Western counterparts (e.g. Japanese MAria vs. English maRIa) nor were they borrowed from the West: they're indigenous names that just happen to coincidence of coincidences match some of ours because lol who'd have thought that with only two to three syllables per typical given name you might get some cross-cultural repeats? So sure, they may have Akamatsu Ken or the Ken in Street Fighter but it's not at all in the same category as Heathcliff. lol

But back to agreeing with you. :o 'Cause I actually do agree that you might have a leg to stand on as you answer the question, "Why Heathcliff? Why not some other name?" If Reki just picked it randomly out of a dictionary of English baby names, boo urns. But if he picked it because of Wuthering Heights, that could be interesting. And it could speak to a purpose. That he purposefully chose this name because ... well, because of lots reasons we could speculate on!
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #69
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The details are messy.

Spoiler: show
SAO's author turned the story into a hentai when he published it on the web. He added a Chapter 16.5 to Volume 1 that included a lurid H scene with dialogue so quotable Kinoko Nasu likely borrowed some of Reki Kawahara's notes on human female biology. I don't even want to spoil it for you, if you can find a transcript of it online it's worth reading just because it crystal clarifies the true nature of the creativity that went into SAO.

When the novel was published, Chapter 16.5 was removed and retroactively declared non-canon (just the scene, not the encounter!), but BakaTsuki had it up for a while until the piece became so widely circulated, it sabotaged SAO's impression among a lot of viewers circa week 2/3. I heard about it during week 4.


Literally the most iconic line in the entire series comes from that chapter.

...

Eureka, I've found it!
Pengy hinted at this to me a while ago. Having now read it, I can see where the comparison to Nasu comes from. Goof grief.

I have a technical question though regarding a quote from Kirito, which perhaps novel-readers can explain:

Spoiler: show
Kirito states, "However, in reality they found that most of the male testers would experience a certain amount of severe anxiety. Even so, while there was no problem when playing for several hours. When they conducted consecutive tests over a 48 hour period, they found that most of the male testers who attended this trial period were unable to stand not having their genitals and gave up. So it was from the Beta testing phase that the genital parts were implemented out of a sense of necessity. It seems that this was also part of the reason why SAO players were not allowed to change their characters’ genders."

First of all, does this mean players are not allowed to pick a gender that contradicts reality? In that case, what about the middle-aged guy who pretended to be a teenage girl in the first episode? Was that an animé-only addition?

If, instead it means that players cannot change gender within the game - how exactly does the Beta testing explanation rationalize this decision? Okay, so "most" male testers experienced anxiety after a 48-hour period, but apparently lacking genitals for a few hours was fine. If a person wanted to try playing as the opposite gender for a while, why not let him/her? If he/she decides it's uncomfortable, the developers could simply make it an always-available option to switch back - which from the conclusive statement seems they were at least originally considering. As such, there's no real reason to not allow paying customers to have a high degree of profile customization if they can handle it. Especially in such an innovative experiment that's ideally meant to grant greater freedom to live out - and fully experience - one's fantasy persona. Heck, half the appeal of MMOs for many is the ability to be someone they're not.

In fact, "locking" a player's gender choice in from the beginning seems even more hazardous according to this perspective. Suppose a guy initially wanted to play as a girl for kicks, but later decided it wasn't for him. Unfortunately, there's no way to change back. Sucks for him. He and others (including women) who similarly screwed around at the start-up screen for fun only to realize later they dun fucked up their entire playing experience will probably end up so stressed they won't want to play anymore, and there go some of the sales. Heck, maybe a few would even go so far as to sue the company.

Such a system also segregates against the minority of people who are comfortable with either or a different gender than their own. Same applies to the first scenario.


Dumb developmental decision dissection aside, thoughts on (the equally dumb IMO) episode 10:

Spoiler: show
Like I told Talon on Skype and kai in FB TO, I actually agree with Talon's interpretation of Asuna's actions during the strip scene, and would've offered that explanation myself had he not beat me to it. That being said, I still thought it was a stupid-silly move. I agree with Dopple she's a dumb girl, and I'm getting tired of trying to defend her - but still feel I have to point out where you guys are apparently missing the (author's intended) point. >_>;

That being said, I'm not leaning one way or another in the feminist-chauvanist debate. I just think the author sucks at writing good/consistent characters, period. Like Talon said, I think the problem with Asuna - and by extension Kirito/pretty much any other character - is that the author keeps trying to present them in one often cliché manner, then backtracks a moment later by providing evidence to the contrary. Although, for the record I agree with Takeo's explanation regarding her fondness for cooking. Is it really so hard to believe someone would crave a hobby that produces a bit of happiness in an otherwise somber existence? Even if the food wasn't tasteless, it's nice to be able to pursue a passion on the side as a break from work/fighting. Two years is a long time, even if it's supposedly temporary.

But I digress. I think the author's failing is that he tries to both appeal to and subvert stereotypes, and in so doing he confuses himself and the reader/viewer. I doubt he has a good handle on any of his own characters and simply doesn't know what to do with them. The fact that the previous stories up to now were from Volume 2 supports this theory. (Not knowing where Kirito's current personality stems from at any point perplexes me greatly as I try to watch the show.) Plus he's not very good at playing either camp straight. >_>;

Back to the episode. Kuradeel shows us another example of a poorly thought-out villain without a satisfying build-up or backstory. Just "Oh look it turns out I'm a bad guy, therefore I want to kill you". I'm really no longer looking forward to hearing what the gamemaker's reason for trapping all these players inside a virtual world was. Watch it be something totally ridiculous.

When Kirito's hand got cut off, I had also hoped the damage would be permanent because HOLY SHIT THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE PRETTY EPIC and gutsy of the author to pull off. Bonus points if Kirito lost control of that hand in the real world as well, like it severed the connection to the nerves or something. Proving dangerous actions can lead not just to death, but impairment. Even if the injury only extended within the world of SAO, it'd still be scary to realize impulse can have dire consequences just like in the real world, despite the forgiving nature of the damage system.

In addition, it would be a brilliantly ironic development given the recent reveal of Kirito's dual-wielding technique. To disable his trump card so soon after its divulgence might debilitate him for a while, and eventually give rise to an even greater power that turns his drawback into strength. It could even be symbolic: Asuna arrives to save him, Kirito gives up a part of himself to save Asuna, and she in turn becomes his second half. Perhaps together they'd unlock a new partnership skill that doesn't require "switching" in battle (a restriction I thought was curious given the stress of teamwork in this story/game), allowing them both to attack an enemy at once. Heck, it's even hinted at in the OP. Becoming true allies who can completely trust to have each other's back, both in combat and in life, would especially make sense given the proposal at the end. But nooo, Kirito just had to regrow his hand back thanks to magic technology so he could feel Asuna up that night. -.- What a rip-off. Or rather not one, dohoho. *shot*

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 09-14-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:18 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post
I have a technical question though regarding a quote from Kirito, which perhaps novel-readers can explain:

Spoiler: show
First of all, does this mean players are not allowed to pick a gender that contradicts reality? In that case, what about the middle-aged guy who pretended to be a teenage girl in the first episode? Was that an animé-only addition?
You're forgetting something about the first episode.
Spoiler: show
The function of The Mirror. The game started off like "any other MMO" where the players could look however they wanted. Hence middle-aged man as a teenager girl. Then, when the Game Master revealed his plot of all that is evil, Kirito used The Mirror item in the storage, just like everyone else - which negated the whole "look how you wish" aspect, making everyone look exactly as they do in real life. I believe Kirito did a whole monolog or something about how the machines they're all plugged into scanned them before they started playing. Klein and Kirito also changed looks upon the use of The Mirror, albeit only slightly.

I'm not sure if this was included in the novel, but even if it did, the effect of seeing that cute teenage-girl turn into the middle-aged man is a whole different thing from reading about it. Might also be a joke on the expense of MMO-players? I personally don't see this being used since Episode 1: everyone is now at least mildly attractive in the show if they're not antagonists and even among antagonists an "ugly" character is rare. I'm actually disappointed by this.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:05 PM   #71
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You're forgetting something about the first episode.
Spoiler: show
The function of The Mirror. The game started off like "any other MMO" where the players could look however they wanted. Hence middle-aged man as a teenager girl. Then, when the Game Master revealed his plot of all that is evil, Kirito used The Mirror item in the storage, just like everyone else - which negated the whole "look how you wish" aspect, making everyone look exactly as they do in real life. I believe Kirito did a whole monolog or something about how the machines they're all plugged into scanned them before they started playing. Klein and Kirito also changed looks upon the use of The Mirror, albeit only slightly.
I did not forget. I guess I should've been more clear.

Spoiler: show
My point is, disregarding the ultimate result of SAO becoming a death trap, it was originally designed and advertised as a game. In the quote, Kirito was merely discussing the technical aspects of this "game" as it was theoretically intended to be - at least in the eyes of the public. So my question is, had SAO launched without a hitch, what would the purpose of placing a restriction on gender-swapping be? How did Kirito come to that conclusion based on the results of the Beta test, when there's no real or even practical precedent for it?
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:48 AM   #72
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I hated last week's episode. I just cringe every time I see the Kirito x Asuna married pairing so blatantly shoved down my throat. Like everything about Asuna screams "I'M A BRIDE CHARACTER!" with a few crappy moe quirks and the ability to fight (but she magically goes weak when Kirito's around).

For this week's episode...good god, I'm close to saying Accel World is better than this show. Incoherent bitching in the magic spoiler box:
Spoiler: show
This episode is married life with Kirito and Asuna, so of course I'll hate it. We have Asuna go from meek to badass repeatedly. We also have some guys who are scared of getting knocked down. Awwwww! What's wrong? Did you trip on the soap in prison and get ass raped, making falling down a traumatic experience? We also have kid suddenly appearing and magically thinking Kirito and Asuna are her parents. That's totally not a shameless statement pointing that Kirito and Asuna are married. Nope! Not at all! I bet the kid is something that runs SAO or some nonsense like that. Besides, she's in the opening.


Oh, also, I would laugh if Asuna got pregnant, and her belly suddenly goes back to normal after a day with a message showing "Baby has been added to your inventory".

For a bit of good news, a new episode of watchable SAO came out!
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:02 PM   #73
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Figured I should pop in to say that, once again, I probably won't be watching this weekend's SAO just yet. From the sneak peek picture that UTW put up on their blog, I saw that this week's episode is about that one mysterious girl we've seen in the opening credits, the only one of the side story girls whose side story we'd yet to see. I have a feeling she's a big deal side character and that her story isn't going to be wrapped up in just one episode. If I'm wrong, someone can tell me I'm wrong and I'll watch her episode now. If I'm right, then there you go and I'll be waiting until this upcoming weekend's episode comes out before watching her arc. Not really in a rush anyway since (1) this is SAO we're talking about ^^; and (2) last week's episode felt like a good conclusion to the few things the show'd gotten me to care about, escape from Aincraid notwithstanding.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:40 PM   #74
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Oh, also, I would laugh if Asuna got pregnant, and her belly suddenly goes back to normal after a day with a message showing "Baby has been added to your inventory".
That happened in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal.

In before Loki pops in to say, "spoilers for random people reading random threads."
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:36 PM   #75
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I think you all are overthinking the anime, and that's why you're not enjoying it as much as I am.
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