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Old 02-01-2021, 06:31 PM   #1
Lil'twick
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5* Raid Reward Discussion

Hello everyone! We have discussed things about the 5* Raid rewards and realized the upgrade to a 50 Watt TR isn't as incentivizing for people to join Gigantamax raids now. With the Watts evening up, we have noticed people are prioritizing levels over the other rewards from the raids. So, we have decided to reach out to the community to figure out what additional rewards we could add to five star raids. Please let us know what you think!
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Old 02-01-2021, 06:54 PM   #2
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Personally, I'd advocate giving out either both a 50W and a 25W TR, or a TR and a TM, or perhaps a TR and a TM voucher that can be used to get up to say, $500 off a TM purchase in the Department Store or a move at the Move Tutor. These are supposed to be the pinnacle of Raid difficulty and they should probably have some form of unique reward to live up to it, and providing movepool diversity is always going to be a plus. Especially if it becomes the only raid type to provide cheaper MT/TM access. I'd say maybe some item that allows the teaching of an egg move, but most egg moves are notoriously mediocre so idk if it'd have the same impact as something from the TM/MT/TR stores.
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Old 02-01-2021, 07:33 PM   #3
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I have several ideas here.
  • Give each participant a Wishing Shard in addition to the normal rewards. What is a Wishing Shard? Just made it up. Basically, it'd be a broken chunk of Wishing Piece, and once someone has four Wishing Shards, they can take them to the Wishing Well and use them the same as a Wishing Piece. Or throw them into the Cram-o-matic to make an actual Wishing Piece once we get that going. Whichever, really.
  • Add some guaranteed Rare Candies to the rewards in addition to whatever levels/candies the participants would already have gotten.
  • If all else fails, Ironthunder's got a pretty good idea there with the TM/MT voucher.

And honestly, it's really tempting to just go "moar Watts" here, except that'd just bring us back to the original problem of people more or less only wanting in on Gigantamax raids.
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Old 02-02-2021, 11:44 AM   #4
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Personally, I'd advocate giving out either both a 50W and a 25W TR, or a TR and a TM, or perhaps a TR and a TM voucher that can be used to get up to say, $500 off a TM purchase in the Department Store or a move at the Move Tutor. These are supposed to be the pinnacle of Raid difficulty and they should probably have some form of unique reward to live up to it, and providing movepool diversity is always going to be a plus. Especially if it becomes the only raid type to provide cheaper MT/TM access. I'd say maybe some item that allows the teaching of an egg move, but most egg moves are notoriously mediocre so idk if it'd have the same impact as something from the TM/MT/TR stores.
TR/TM vouchers sound good to me, kinda remind me of some of the Passes of old - perhaps they could work on a % off basis and then they could be used in either the Watt Shop, The Dept. Store or The Move Tutor depending on how people choose to use it

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  • Give each participant a Wishing Shard in addition to the normal rewards. What is a Wishing Shard? Just made it up. Basically, it'd be a broken chunk of Wishing Piece, and once someone has four Wishing Shards, they can take them to the Wishing Well and use them the same as a Wishing Piece. Or throw them into the Cram-o-matic to make an actual Wishing Piece once we get that going. Whichever, really.
I like this idea a lot but I'm wondering if four being required would be too few given the Watt cost of a Wishing Piece? Maybe a Wishing Piece would need 8-10 Wishing Shards and be a more long term goal?

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  • Add some guaranteed Rare Candies to the rewards in addition to whatever levels/candies the participants would already have gotten.
Guaranteed Candies, a few thousand $ or even Gummis would be a good shout (maybe not the latter until that system is looked in to, though)

In terms of my own submissions and thoughts, I would suggest perhaps including the Type Balls - I know that these aren't currently available outside of events and zone rewards so this would see quite an influx of them (8 per 5*) which may not be desirable. If this didn't matter, though, I think they would suit the flavour of things (like the typed TM/berries) more than other potential item rewards.


Somewhat piggybacking off of Iron's idea, I got to thinking of some sort of 'Gym Pass' that would offer trainers who won one a number of perks in the time prior to the next month's raids (money off moves, perhaps a six level stay for Strength Training - not sure on the specifics right now but thought this could offer a talking point nonetheless ^^)
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Old 02-02-2021, 01:49 PM   #5
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Please take this as my own opinion, but being honest I dislike both the idea of vouchers or passes in any capacity, as well as wishing shards. Vouchers just remind me too much of the old shop system, and while it does require completing a raid, it will eventually just promote the shop simulation system that has plagued FB in the past. As for giving both a TM and TR, while it is a nice idea, I feel like it still isn't enough incentive for people to participate. They're so common at this point that it doesn't really feel like there is much value in giving something like that.

As for the wishing shard idea, while it certainly sounds good enough on paper, it actually won't be as good in practice. Wishing Pieces are already set at a high price for a reason so that people can earn them through raiding proper. WIshing Shards both devalue and accelerate Wishing Pieces, but it will also force the gym leaders into positions where the only 5* raids that will be ran will be Wishing Well raids. While it is nice for people to be able to use the wishing well when they wish, Gym Leaders should be able to run the raids they want when available. It may be an idea that could work in the future, but it'll need its own dedicated topic.

I do like the idea of additional candies, gummis, or money being able to be earned. However, my main worry is how it'll affect the overall economy. Having too many of an item can flood the market and devalue the item. I think Yummi Gummis would be a good shout though. They're like never given out so a source of them would be cool. I would be against Mysterious Gummis, however, since they should take longer to get and should be locked to events, zone rewards, and updater rewards.

As for the monetary portion, having a surplus of poke dollars from raids also disincentives people from actually role-playing in zones. Zones are first and foremost are the core of Fizzy Bubbles, and I do not want raids to overcome or replace them in any way. As much as we'd all like a little extra cash here or there, the only value I'd think would be fine from raids is $250. And that honestly would be for looking at the raid rewards as a whole, and for now, the gym leaders want to look at 5* raids specifically.

My favorite suggestion is PP's with the type balls. We need ways to get them, and they're just cosmetic at this point. We have the Apricorn balls in the Watt Shop and most of the normal Pokeballs in the Department Store. I feel like the type-balls are one of the few custom items that should be given out regularly since they don't really hold much more than cool little cosmetic features.

As for any other suggestion I might have, Apricorns are another good shout. We will have a way to actually convert them soon, once the Cram shop is fully hammered out, and I feel like that might be enough of an incentive for people to join the raids. We should have something more unique or not that common that won't impact the game majorly as an additional reward here, and I'll fully support something that doesn't break the system.

tl;dr Yummi Gummis, Type Balls, and Apricorns Good. Vouchers Bad. Additional TMs Meh. Wishing Shards/Pieces need own topic.
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Old 02-02-2021, 02:24 PM   #6
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I too like the Type Balls idea, as someone who enjoys collecting them and for the fact they fit nicely into the Gym themes, seeing as they're surprisingly rarely given out in FB.

Extra TMs/TRs are fine but I find they just tend to accumulate in my Inventory since I'm too lazy to use 'em (unless on the participating 'mon) most of the time lol. Same goes double for Gummis. A voucher might incentivize me to make use of it more immediately if it expires within a certain timeframe, though while they also nostalgically remind me of Passes I preferred when those were given out as a rare treat.

Extra cash/Candies are always welcome I suppose especially the latter. *shot*

As for Wishing Shards, they sound like a nice idea, though if they were implemented I agree the required number should be a lot higher. Given my main focus atm is to finish off filling out my team roster through Type Eggs, it'd be cool to work towards my planned Wishing Well 'mons in the meantime as well. Still, it's a much more distant goal not at the forefront of my mind right now so I'm not particularly fussed either way.

Personally Raid rewards have never really motivated my decisions to join a Raid as I select mostly just based on the Bosses that appeal to me for flavor (especially now that the Watts distribution has been evened out). *shrug* Most Gigas fall under that category anyway since they greatly amuse me so you can expect me to continue signing up for them regardless lol. ("Difficulty" doesn't daunt me either since I'm just here to have fun by using a variety of different Moves bc that's how I roll.)

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Old 02-02-2021, 03:39 PM   #7
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I came to similar conclusion Lit did regarding the Wishing Shards while I was cleaning earlier. Sure, it'll take a while for the first Wishing Star obtained this way to be completed, but once that first one's done, they'll be coming in nearly non-stop unless we say that the Wishing Well can't give Shards... which would put us right back at square one there. Not exactly a shining example of a good fix here, I'd wager.

I do appreciate the Gummi idea, though. The biggest thing holding me back from using the ones I currently have is the idea that they won't be there if I ever actually need them for something at our current flow, especially since the meant-to-be rare Mysterious Gummis are the ones we've seen the most in recent years (Birthday Gummis notwithstanding, of course). They would stand out a bit as the only non-Watt reward to not be Type-themed, though I suppose the same would be true of Rare Candies.

Type Balls are another curious case of something that feels like it's supposed to be relatively common, yet has shown up less frequently than something that's supposed to be a rarer luxury item. Throughout my almost half-decade of FB membership, I've only gotten two of them (a Dark Ball and a Poison Ball, both from the same event), whereas I've gotten three separate Cyber Balls in the same amount of time! Of course, these would be a similar situation as the TRs here: only one per Raid, Gym Leader's choice if multiple happen to match the Boss. Any more than that, and we'd likely start to get too flooded in these things, ya know?

I guess an extra TM could prove helpful in getting the lower-leveled pokemon up to snuff enough to rise up to the challenge themselves? I dunno, this option feels like a bit of a copout choice to me, even though it is the most mechanically relevant to the Raid meta itself. I won't say no to it, of course, but I'm not personally as thrilled about the idea as the people who've already spent fortunes getting pokes ready for the big leagues might be.
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Old 02-02-2021, 04:42 PM   #8
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Gummis are a good idea.
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Old 02-02-2021, 04:49 PM   #9
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Don't have much to add to the discussion besides that I like the idea of Type Balls and Gummis being rewards, Type Balls especially.
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:17 PM   #10
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Yeah speaking as someone who has an invested bias and will acknowledge it now, I think the Wishing Shard idea is fine in a vacuum but will quickly lead to more problems than it will solve both through devaluation and lockout of GMax raids. Lit definitely hit the nail on the head there.

I am not a very creative person when it comes to incentives beyond very basic, ham fisted solutions. Luckily there are people far better at that than me in FB. I'd happily back Pearl's idea of Type Balls, and Yummi Gummis are also a solid option. The latter there is a small argument for devaluing RP, but given the additional monetary incentive of replies in Zones I think we can safely implement it (certainly at least on a trial basis to gauge userbase response).
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:25 PM   #11
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I much like the ideas of the Type balls / Apriballs as well as the introduction of Yummi gummy distribution.
I agree about the Wishing pieces/shards needing to be their own topic, and I am not against the thought of passes but IF and only IF we decide to implement passes then I feel those should be specific to Wishing Well raid rewards and should also have an expiration date.

I have more ideas floating around but after giving them some mild thought I believe the ideas I have would be better suited to different topics
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:29 PM   #12
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Adding to the voices in support of Type Balls. While I’d be conscious that they might lose their appeal once a member has collected one of each already, 5* raids for a specific type should only come around about once per year so hopefully this won't be a problem in the foreseeable future.

I’d also like to propose the following as rewards in place or addition of Type Balls.

Type Gems: These are one-use items raise the power of a specific type attack by 50% in Gen V and 30% from Gen VI onwards. Like Type Balls, they feel like a nice fit and could offer enough incentive without completely tipping the scales in favour of 5* raids.

Type Plates / Boosting Items: Similar to the above, I’d be more inclined to go for Plates though given that boosting items are readily available at the Department Store.

I’m iffy about the idea of adding other currencies to the mix like bond, cash or candies. Raids have their own currency in watts and I think it should stay that way. Raiders can already accumulate bond and cash by roleplaying their posts or levels simply by participating – it doesn’t seem there’s much point in handing out those rewards in a different form.
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Old 02-06-2021, 01:31 PM   #13
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Another idea: GMax plushies/trophies that teach a move. Said move is chosen from the GMax mon's movepool by the GL, and is treated functionally as a TM: If the target learns it naturally, it's fine, otherwise follow unnatural rules. If we're going for trophies, it's a more useful one than Type Balls, which are going to sit in inventories until they're sold to one of the handful of people who use them.

Gummis, personally I think Bond needs looking at before we patch any holes with Bond stuff.

Functionally I get that people are still shit-scared of the game going back to being a shop-sim like it was before, but ultimately atm we're already basically a raid-sim with some RP on the side, and it's not much better functionally.
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Old 02-06-2021, 06:05 PM   #14
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There’s another idea I had which I’d like to throw into the mix.

Held Item: The held item would be decided by the gym leaders and would ideally have an application to future raids and be well suited to the raid boss, for example might give out a Scope Lens, a Throat Spray, a Leftovers, a Life Orb etc.

I’m not sure how balanced it might be, but said raid boss could even be holding the item during the battle – I believe it was Raves who said that giving held items with useful raid applications a wider distribution would make the bosses too easy, so this could help in evening the odds some.

I’ve said it before, but given how raids have added an element of competitive battling to Fizzy Bubbles, a wider distribution of useful battle items would be really nice.
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Old 02-06-2021, 09:36 PM   #15
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I like Emp's idea, its rewarding without being too much. Not sure about the Boss holding the item, they can already be a struggle without the held items lol.
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Old 02-06-2021, 09:54 PM   #16
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I've always liked "flavored" Fizzy items that teach Moves (which may or not necessarily fall under the TM category), so the plushie/trophy idea is really cute~ Would also be cool to make more "unique" Hold Items available as well.
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Old 02-06-2021, 10:05 PM   #17
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Another idea: GMax plushies/trophies that teach a move. Said move is chosen from the GMax mon's movepool by the GL, and is treated functionally as a TM: If the target learns it naturally, it's fine, otherwise follow unnatural rules.
I like this idea. Always loved items in FB that teach moves not already covered by existing TMs and TRs.
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:41 AM   #18
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Being honest I'm completely against the idea in either forms. While it does sound cool on paper there is just a lot of problems with it. As I said, TMs are TMs and adding in Non-TM/TR/MT moves into the mix causing a ton of issues. If a move isn't one of the 250+ TMs/TRs or even MTs I have a feeling its for a reason.

As for the held items part, while it would ve nice to have more ready access to held items, it just throws both adventure rewards and the economy into a loop. I do agree that we need better distribution of held items, eight people obtaining the same one every month is not the way we need to go about it. While it sounds like a good idea on paper, it really will not pan out in practice.
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Old 02-07-2021, 10:45 AM   #19
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(I’ve had this typed up for a while, sorry if I’m not addressing the most recent posts.)
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Adding to the voices in support of Type Balls. While I’d be conscious that they might lose their appeal once a member has collected one of each already, 5* raids for a specific type should only come around about once per year so hopefully this won't be a problem in the foreseeable future.

I’d also like to propose the following as rewards in place or addition of Type Balls.

Type Gems: These are one-use items raise the power of a specific type attack by 50% in Gen V and 30% from Gen VI onwards. Like Type Balls, they feel like a nice fit and could offer enough incentive without completely tipping the scales in favour of 5* raids.

Type Plates / Boosting Items: Similar to the above, I’d be more inclined to go for Plates though given that boosting items are readily available at the Department Store.

I’m iffy about the idea of adding other currencies to the mix like bond, cash or candies. Raids have their own currency in watts and I think it should stay that way. Raiders can already accumulate bond and cash by roleplaying their posts or levels simply by participating – it doesn’t seem there’s much point in handing out those rewards in a different form.
I agree with Emp's post above. In my time in Fizzy Bubbles, roughly one year and two months, I can't remember getting a single chance to obtain any of the Type Balls other than trading. Including one as a reward in each 5-star Gigantamax raid could help incentivize people to join them, and would probably not do so in the way that extra Watts would. If Type Balls are included in rewards for 5-star raids, then they would also become more accessible, and might not cause people to feel left out if they do not participate in a 5-star raid, making a fine balance between rewards and the demand for a spot in such raids.
I am also not against including Plates or type-boosting items in the rewards for Gigantamax raids, though I worry that too many of them in circulation among FB players would cause people's inventories to become cluttered. Plates and type-boosting items are permanent held items, after all, and are not consumed like Berries or TRs are.

Now, my thoughts regarding Wishing Shards and TM/TR vouchers/passes. I dislike the idea of introducing a quicker way to obtain Wishing Pieces in FB, especially if we must introduce another "custom" item in the process. The current pace at which Wishing Pieces are obtained is pretty ideal, in my opinion.
While I am interested in cheaper ways to teach TM, TR, or MT moves to Pokémon, I feel like the TRs given out at the end of each raid are already serving well with teaching new moves easily. Vouchers or passes would only complicate things, and just giving out an extra TR or TM at the end of Gigantamax raids would have the same effect. To clarify: I am neither for or against including an extra TR or TM in the rewards for Gigantamax raids; I would be fine with that if it goes into effect, but also fine if not. I am a bit against the idea of vouchers/passes for new moves.
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Old 02-20-2021, 08:36 PM   #20
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So, sorry about the delay in getting our response into the thread. Having discussed it, we as the gym leaders would think the most enticing reward would be creating a custom Pokeball for each gym. This would either be a singular ball or a possible ball for each type in the gym. We will also be trying to create a custom Pokeball for the Wishing Well. We are planning on each ball having a unique, but not powerful effect when the Pokemon is sent out. This will be designed to be both beneficial in raids and in zones. The effect will solely affect the Pokemon housed within the ball, as we feel affecting the area can cause issues. We would like the community to give their feedback on this idea, and if they would like to see this implemented. If you do have any suggestions we would appreciate them.
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Old 02-20-2021, 08:51 PM   #21
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Not a big fan of this idea tbh. We already have plenty of custom Balls, and the regular Type Balls are already rare enough, so I'd prefer going with the original idea of distributing those instead. Maybe make one new custom Ball for the Wishing Well, but otherwise I think it's going a bit overboard to have one for each individual Gym.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:00 AM   #22
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Not a big fan of this idea tbh. We already have plenty of custom Balls, and the regular Type Balls are already rare enough, so I'd prefer going with the original idea of distributing those instead. Maybe make one new custom Ball for the Wishing Well, but otherwise I think it's going a bit overboard to have one for each individual Gym.
I'll be completely honest, from a personal standpoint, I 100% am in agreement with this. I rather have a better distribution of the current custom items than create new ones. Based on the community vote in the discord, I'll try to see if we can have a vote on type balls.
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Old 02-22-2021, 02:01 PM   #23
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With the vote on the custom gym ball proposal having an overwhelming majority against it, the idea will not go through due to the community's wishes. After a simple chat, we will have type balls be distributed with 5* rewards. We will award one type ball per 5* raid, with the raiders able to choose if the boss is dual-typed. This will start to go into effect starting next month!
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Old 02-22-2021, 02:06 PM   #24
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I'm cool with this. And I want to make it clear that I am by no means opposed to the idea of Poké Balls with some sort of benefit beyond simple catch rate modifiers or extra Bond awarded to the occupant. My issue, personally, basically echoes what Lilblue said- we already have a buttload of custom FB Poké Balls as it is. Whether or not this gets tied to raids moving forward, I feel like the general idea should be kept around, perhaps worked into existing Poké Balls instead, maybe ones that currently only exist for the aesthetics. That discussion regarding revamping custom items should still be ongoing, in fact, I think?
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