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Old 11-05-2012, 11:18 AM   #1
Talon87
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On India and public urination

The BBC reports in this article about public urination and defecation in India how one state, Rajasthan, is trying to shame citizens into no longer doing so.

Not really sure how to feel about this. I have a mix of conflicting emotions and thoughts. For the most part, I'm against public urination or defecation. I would cite health reasons and social reasons for this. On the other hand, though, I don't think that the right tactic is to shame and humiliate these people with bands of hoodlums "volunteers" bearing drums and whistles when, according to the article, 50% of the subcontinent's population is without a toilet at home. Now granted, they do mention that 80% of households in Rajasthan have a toilet, but that still means that one in five -- one in five! -- does not. 20% of their friends, neighbors, and co-workers have no other options but to either go bathroom in public or else find a public restroom (if there even is one nearby) and use that instead. What are they supposed to do when they wake up at 2am with a bad case of diarrhea? Shit in a bucket and take the bucket out in the morning? And if so, where do they take it? How do they dispose of the excrement? These are serious questions the government both in Rajasthan and in greater India will have to answer. Until those questions can be answered, I don't think it's right to humiliate people for doing something which is perfectly legal. I think it would be better to transform the society first into one where such practices can be rendered illegal ... and to then render them illegal and deal with lawbreakers in a courteous, humane manner as the society transitions from one where public defecation is A-OK to one in which it is not. But when 50% of the population doesn't have a toilet at home, I'd say you're a far cry from being ready for this step. So prioritize on that first, I'd say. Get the toilets into people's homes first and then you can start talking about making the practice taboo.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:25 AM   #2
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I would just like to point out that when talking about India, throw anything and everything you know straight out of the window and don't bother watching it until it falls.

That is all. I don't have an opinion of this.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:27 AM   #3
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Being an Indian, I know that this is more likely to work than most other efforts. It's not that people can't build toilets in their own homes. It's that they find stuff like alcohol more important to spend money on and so they don't want to. Agreed that Rajasthan isn't the richest of states in India, but they also mention that they'll be 'giving financial assistance' which should be enough in most places where people do this shit (LOL). It's stuff like this that often works in India and I think this is a great initiative, though I'm not entirely sure about its success and its consequences.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
I would just like to point out that when talking about India, throw anything and everything you know straight out of the window and don't bother watching it until it falls.
Well that would basically mean that no one is ever qualified to discuss Indian matters because, by your logic, they should always discard anything they may know. There has to be some point at which you're qualified to discuss things. I would think native Indians are at least somewhat qualified to talk about this, no? ^^;

That stated, I'll definitely admit I have never been to India, am not Indian, do not have Indian family members, and so on. So my understanding may be very shallow and misguided vs. someone else's understanding who has actually grown up in India. But I can still come at this topic with my own opinions formed from my own experiences in life. And those experiences suggest to me that:
  1. letting people pee and poop on sidewalks or near telephone booths is not good for health reasons (like risk of transmitting parasites) and social reasons (like the stench it creates or the chemical effects the waste can have on the materials they've been deposited onto)
  2. but at the same time it just isn't right to shame people out of doing something which 50% of the population does out of necessity
It would be like if a group of hippies tried to shame people out of driving (since driving pollutes the environment, etc.) by mobbing them every time they got into their car, shaking the car about and preventing them from driving off without injuring demonstrators. I don't think that's right in a state like mine where most people have to drive to get to work or to other important places (hospitals and the like which aren't on any public transit stops). You have to enable people to change before you require them to change. Requiring them to do something they cannot do just creates conflict.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:41 AM   #5
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Actually, as a native Indian, I'm no more qualified to talk about this than you are- which is, very little. I'm a city guy. The difference between cities and villages in India is straight-up gobsmacking wtf. I can't find words to describe it, but takku, I think you'll understand. Even our cities aren't much to speak about, but the villages can be utterly backwards at times.

That's all. I can't form an opinion as I know absolutely nothing about anything in this. But India is utterly weird, and putting pressure on people might actually make them BE able to make that change, as many, many people don't feel a toilet is even necessary compared to a TV. Not joking.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:45 AM   #6
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I don't really have anything constructive to add that wouldn't be redundant, so I'll just provide an anecdote.

Once upon a time, around Y2K, I saw a baseball game at Pacific Bell Park in San Francisco. It's significant because I didn't care about baseball then, but I'm a huge baseball nut now for the Giants. I didn't know the value of what I was watching!

Anyway, on the way back, we got held up in traffic and saw a guy taking a leak on the wall of a McDonalds after he left the building. The implication was, he wasn't allowed to use the restaurant's bathroom, so he went on the wall. Payback never felt so good.

I found it hilarious and the whole car rioted in laughter. The guy clearly didn't care if people were watching, he had to do what he had to do.

Oh, maybe I can connect this to the topic. Unless India has a deep seated tradition of pride/shame, I'm not sure this works. But it can't hurt and while pee isn't poop, it has enough residual staying power to not be hygienic.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Actually, as a native Indian, I'm no more qualified to talk about this than you are- which is, very little. I'm a city guy. The difference between cities and villages in India is straight-up gobsmacking wtf. I can't find words to describe it, but takku, I think you'll understand. Even our cities aren't much to speak about, but the villages can be utterly backwards at times.

That's all. I can't form an opinion as I know absolutely nothing about anything in this. But India is utterly weird, and putting pressure on people might actually make them BE able to make that change, as many, many people don't feel a toilet is even necessary compared to a TV. Not joking.
I pretty much agree with this. Though the villages used to be a lot better in the earlier times (using poop as manure etc.), now with the exploding population and diminishing sanity of people, things are fairly hopeless.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:02 PM   #8
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Nobody will care, people will still piss and shit everywhere. Yes, it is a health risk, but not a big one.
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