11-21-2011, 04:36 PM | #253 |
時の彼方へ
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So, I watched Episode 08 Saturday night. It was spectacular. One of the best episodes yet, to be sure. So much happened that I want to discuss, but I'm afraid that, much like with last week's episode, what I have to say will get much too long and no one will want to read it all. So ... I'll try and restrain myself a bit more this week. I'll address things as they came up in the order they came up and offer some brief thoughts.
Spoiler: show And that's it! So ... yeah. I ended up writing another tome. But hopefully folks will read it, or at least pick out the bits they like which I've demarcated with bold headers, and that'll be that.
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11-21-2011, 06:10 PM | #254 |
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TRIPLE POST!
Some interesting insights from the book. Also, an update as to where we are relative to the book. Spoiler: show As for how far we are, we are through page 155 of 249 of Volume 2 of 4. We are also through Act 7, meaning there's only one act remaining in Volume 2 of 4, and that there are only nine acts remaining in total.
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11-22-2011, 12:00 AM | #255 |
Dragon's Tears
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Blargh, I skipped the Kara no Kyoukai spoiler but opened the Kayneth one. Could offer an excuse of how I assumed you meant the contents were obvious once you knew Lancer's identity, but then that would beg the question of why you'd bother to spoiler it after we'd already learned his name, eh? My brain has just been full of fail lately.
Spoiler: show
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Last edited by lilboocorsola; 11-22-2011 at 12:22 AM. |
11-22-2011, 12:26 AM | #256 | |
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Quote:
First of all, you can go ahead and click on that first of the two nested spoiler boxes. It's just me speculating about what Kiritsugu may do with some of his bullets. However, I wrote it before opening the book up for Post #3, and so as I wrote it, I was sort of assuming that Kiritsugu was already down to his last one or two bullets. Or that he would be by war's end. Given that he's "only" used 37 of the 66 he was given, and given that (according to the book) he's only ever used one per target and none have been wasted, it's hard to envision him blowing though the remainder all in the span of the next few acts. But who knows. Who knows ... Second of all, a lot of what I said in that second nested spoiler is personal speculation given what I learned from Doppel. Over the summer, I was talking about Sora and how beautiful she is. I offhandedly mentioned something about wondering what her fate would be (since we've not seen her in FSN or F/HA) and Doppel answered. I didn't click on his spoiler box -- he warned it was a spoiler and I didn't want to be spoilered -- but when I clicked "Quote" to reply to what he'd said, I naturally saw it at the very bottom of the post. -_-; So what it said was ... Spoiler: show Something along those lines. That's all he said, Yuki. But back to me and my speculation ... Spoiler: show Now that you've read this spoiler, though, I can re-iterate some speculation I'd mentioned earlier in the year (before you knew who Lancer was) regarding Team Lancer and how they tie into the whole "Urobuchi Gen really played up the 'the Servants mirror their Masters' gig": Spoiler: show Make sense? But yeah. This is all my speculation based on what very little Doppel revealed over the summer. So don't feel like you've been mega-ultra-definitively spoilered or anything. Maybe you have -- but only if my guess is right. For now, it's still just a guess, and nothing will be confirmed one way or the other until we see it.
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Last edited by Talon87; 11-22-2011 at 12:29 AM. |
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11-26-2011, 09:18 AM | #257 | ||
我が名は勇者王!
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Super late, but I watched the first episode.
There was a lot of magic in it, especially in the eye polish (which more resembled Realta Nua's intro cutscene rather than the DEEN anime or even the otherwise nice Toei animation) but it was everything I expected it to be. Which is to say I don't really feel anything different toward the series than I did before watching Episode 1. 44 minutes was brutal and I wanted to pause and do something else, but I stuck with it. Knowing everything already really does trivialize the experience. Some notes: 1. The walking scene with Kirei and Tokiomi really annoyed me. It made no sense that the two guys would randomly walk in a circle like some kind of dance, it felt like ufotable wanted to include animation and not seem cheap. They could have done something like have Risei sit down or something for a change of pace, rather than a dumb dance. 2. I liked the scene where Kiritsugu and Kirei were reading each others profiles simultaneously and getting the creeps. That was the climax, I felt, and not the actual summoning later on. Not to mention... Haha, that's what you get, Sakura! You're not supposed to say "bye bye". It's "mata ne". You cursed Kariya and doomed yourself! Quote:
How's that even possible? Quote:
But good job.
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望 今 信じあえる あきらめない 心かさね 永遠を抱きしめて Last edited by Doppleganger; 11-26-2011 at 09:47 AM. |
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11-26-2011, 09:54 AM | #258 |
時の彼方へ
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Oh please. I've watched that episode 3-5 times. It is the antithesis of boring. The fact that you had to force yourself through it reaffirms my advice in the other thread: don't even bother. Clearly all this GRE studying has rattled your brains if you're arguing that Penguindrum is Anime of the Year or that even Haganai and Mirai Nikki are better than this once-every-five-years masterpiece.
The walking in a circle wasn't that bad. It was partly symbolic, showing how Tokiomi and Risei were like sharks or wolves or other circling predatory animals and how Kirei was like their prey. It was also, of course, to actually animate something. I think you underestimate just how many still talking scenes occur in this story. Any opportunity to not bore the audience will be seized upon. Oh, but that's right: you're the one who was already so bored he couldn't wait to quit watching. I guess they were just damned if they did and damned if they didn't with you! I don't even begin to get your mockery of Sakura. Even the UBW movie you were more excited about than this. And Kaiji S2 ... Kaiji S2 you were quite eager to watch despite knowing everything. Your illogical claims, your conflicting behaviors, are truly frustrating. But I can safely say this: the Doppelganger I knew in January was very excited for this show. He was a Doppelganger I could relate to. This new Doppel ... this new Doppel is like a complete stranger.
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11-26-2011, 10:53 AM | #259 | |
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Quote:
I think F/Z is very much a "love it or hate it" kind of show, depending on how invested you are in the characters and their backstories. Talon, you were already head-over-heels-infatuated from even before day one. XP I'm intrigued, but not loyally devoted. You might say our levels of interest in F/Z and HxH are somewhat reversed, where F/Z is something I enjoy more casually. I think it shows I haven't been as excited about the recent episodes, and if a relative newcomer to the story isn't that impressed, I can see how a seasoned veteran would find the series boring. Most of the fun for me so far has been in the speculation of Servants' identities and how they relate to their Masters. With less of that taking place since all the names were revealed, I find myself twiddlng my thumbs hoping next week they'll showcase more Master-Servant relationships. Basically, I'm curious to know the resolution, but I don't care so much about the process aside from the Servants' involvement. I don't need to know the intricate workings and history behind pretty parlor tricks unless they're somehow steeped in reality. I can only imagine how someone who already knows the operations and outcomes would feel. If Dopple's disillusioned, we shouldn't force him to watch if he doesn't want to. Attitudes can change over time. If you don't like it, Dopple, don't feel obligated to watch it (only to then come tell us you don't like it).
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11-26-2011, 11:15 AM | #260 | |||
我が名は勇者王!
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But I feel that you've taken the opposite approach to how I normally go about trying things - my style is to hate something going in and through resistance and attrition, grow to appreciate it. If I fail to like it in the end, I'm more confident that the experience was probably not worth the time spent on it. Fate/Zero is a good work. I know from reading the story. But I don't think it's Masterpiece quality, and if the anime wants a outstanding rating out of me it's going to have to put up a fight. Even if it were perfect under all conditions, which is the most likely scenario, its ceiling is the strength of the source material, which I find solid but, bless the pure soul, not Urobuchi's best. Also, I never said Haganai or Mirai Nikki were better, merely that they were more interesting based solely on knowledge saturation. I didn't place Mirai Nikki at the top of my list, it was close to the bottom. It was the last anime I started right before F/Z, and was better than BEN-TO and Guilty Crown. Quote:
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It's true that I was dead-beating for the past six or so months, but I'm more or less sane now and in a better position to cross-evaluate what I'm watching. F/Z is going to turn out better than most of the other anime this season. It likely has a lower budget than Guilty Crown but is much more efficient and effective at using it. But I'm not going to get as much mileage out of this anime as I would have several years ago. Certainly more than the lesser shows, but it doesn't have the "power" to hook me like the original did. I think if TYPE-MOON wants to impress me, Nasu needs to write something new and not expand on ideas he first scribbled in high school. I'm not looking forward to Tsukihime 2 for this reason, it seems derivative of Melty Blood which Nasu didn't even write.
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望 今 信じあえる あきらめない 心かさね 永遠を抱きしめて Last edited by Doppleganger; 11-26-2011 at 11:22 AM. |
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11-26-2011, 04:05 PM | #261 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Better Masters. More interesting, better backstories, more competent and capable, they do more, etc etc. I'm actually more interested in the Masters this war than in the Servants -- and when you have the likes of Alexander the Great and Gilgamesh dancing around, that's quite a lot to say. Better Servants. Much more epic, much more fascinating, much deeper, etc. The Servants in FSN were "Oh: token bad guys in love" (Medea), "Oh: token 'I want to be a real boy'" (Assassin), "Oh: I'm somebody you know better than you think you do" (Archer), little gimmicks here or there but otherwise devoid of personality or agenda. What did Medea hope to achieve? What was her wish? We never really got anything out of her. Ditto for Assassin. Ditto for Rider. We never learned any of their wishes, and most of their desires were restricted to "I want to help my Master win at all costs." Yawn. Urobuchi Gen put Nasu's writing to shame with this outing. Now we have a Caster who mistakes Saber for his love in life, the love whose death is what drove him insane, and thus a Caster-Saber relationship. We have three kings, none of whom back down from the fact that they're pretty damn famous kings, and the squabbles from that. Gil-Rider-Saber. We've got Diarmuid's entire backstory being played back out in front of our very eyes in the 20th century. Beautiful, enchanting, tragic. We've got half the Servants' wishes already revealed (Rider, Saber, Caster) or hinted at (Archer) which already places us light-years ahead of FSN where we only ever learned Saber's, Archer's (UBW), and 4th War Archer's. Unlike last time where we barely got to see any of the catalysts used to summon the servants (Shirou's conceptual weapon, Rin's amulet, and that's it?), here we've gotten to see cloth, snakeskin, a scabbard, and a hand-me-down dark magic book, and we'll probably (I'm hoping) get to find a fifth, Berserker's, before all's said and done, placing us well ahead of the Nasu-curve once again. On and on I could go here. This isn't even a fair criticism of Fate/Zero, partly because it's (duh) an FSN fanfic that got the seal of approval from Nasu himself to become canon, so of course it's going to be a derivative work, and partly because it's not even written by Nasu. This is like rejecting the Silmarillion, completed by Tolkien's son, on the grounds that "if Tolkien really wants to impress me again, he'll have to write something new." So what if Nasu never impresses you again!? What bearing does that have on whether Fate/Zero, written by another man, is any good or not?
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Last edited by Talon87; 11-26-2011 at 04:09 PM. |
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11-26-2011, 06:15 PM | #262 |
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On a brighter note ... watched episode 9 today. It was amazing. Divided into two halves, the first half deals primarily with one team while the second half deals primarily with another. The episode's pre-opening credits scene, however, is the highlight of the episode. While the remainder is quite solid, the opening scene is the very sort of thing which I've spoken out about as setting Fate/Zero well apart from (and well above) Fate/Stay Night in terms of its narrative quality. And that scene is nothing more than one awesome flashback from one of the seven servants' pasts.
Episode 09 spoilers, it should go without saying: Spoiler: show
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Last edited by Talon87; 11-26-2011 at 06:18 PM. |
11-27-2011, 05:18 AM | #263 | ||||||||
我が名は勇者王!
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To put this into perspective, let's say you were watching a chess match. In a character driven story, you'd be watching the pieces and the turn by turn intercourse of how they move/are taken on the chess board. The thematic story looks at the players, but as players and not as people. Neither Madoka nor Fate/Zero are very thematic. You might disagree, but they are but a bead of perspiration in a dry bucket on an especially arid summer day in Phoenix, Arizona compared with an ocean that is SnU's. Even compared with Kikokugai - The Cyber Slayer, probably the most similar work to F/Z (though more in line with Tsukihime) it's comparing that bead to a small puddle. Themes are my threshold for a Flawed Masterpiece/Masterpiece rating. They're what I actually like most in the story, so if I could appreciate everything else but not really get worked up over it, it'll get an Outstanding (9/10). I'd also award an Outstanding for titles that I could get worked up over (Giant Robo and Kaiji season 1) but were rough in some parts. This is what I would have given the novel, which is far higher than the pedestrian rating I gave Fate/stay night after finishing the VN. No matter what, the anime isn't going to get above an Outstanding from me. Adding visuals and better pacing isn't going to make up for the lack of strong central themes that I so like. The voice acting is a treat, but it's just fanservice to me. Quote:
I'm not going to say I don't care about graphics. I do. But it's not as important to me as other aspects of story. Quote:
Let's say Nintendo gave Link a romantic interest and that interest was Epona. People who like bestiality rejoice. Most people would have hated this (especially if Epona didn't have a human form or dialogue) but would have preferred Nintendo not do it if they were going down a distasteful avenue. This isn't particularly relevant to Fate/Zero except in the case of 4th Rider. 4th Rider was mentioned with disdain in Fate/hollow ataraxia but most of his personality was designed by Urobuchi. For all the other characters, their backgrounds and dispositions were either mentioned and elaborated on in FSN or FHA or were completely original for F/Z. Quote:
I guess? But the only original characters are Uryuu, El Melloi, Kariya, Maiya, Sophia-Ri, Caster, Lancer, and Berserker. El Melloi replaces Shinji, while Uryuu replaces Kuzuki. Almost everyone else was profiled in FSN or FHA. I personally felt Uryuu and Caster were a downgrade from their 5th War incarnations, while El Melloi a less repulsive upgrade. The Lancers are equivalent but the Bazett-Lancer duo is superior to the El Melloi/Lancer/Sophia-Ri triangle. Kariya is a good character, but we already had the half-arsed magus Master who was always destroying himself angle covered in far greater depth in a certain visual novel. Which treatment is superior is worthy of debate. His end was probably the most vivid part of the entire story. It's the same plot, really. Like I said earlier, these features don't make or break a show for me. There is a threshold somewhere I'd wager. I didn't like the Star Wars novelizations (of the original movie) compared with the movies themselves. But I liked Lucas' prequels even less than those novelizations. Maybe my permutation is, a good novel can't be made into a great movie, but an ordinary novel can be made into a good movie? Quote:
I see that as more of product of a planned RPG scenario rather than a haphazard fight for survival. That wasn't something I could appreciate back when I saw FSN, but I've always disliked how Nasu based the Servant parameters on RPG conventions. He yielded his right to creative license with such statistics and it made him look ridiculous when he broke his own taboos. Quote:
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Medea wanted a good man, while Assassin wanted a fight. Both got what they wanted without needing the grail. The tragedy with Medea was everything she ever found happiness in was transient, which was why she fought so hard for Kuzuki in FSN. Even if it was a day's happiness, she wanted that day to last forever. Assassin was as pure a soul as they come - he only wanted a good fight. He got it. More relevant to F/Z, Iskander wanted to reach the end of the world, the Far East that he never got to in life. Lo and behold, he was summoned in the Land of the Rising Sun! He then promptly changed objectives to conquering the new world. Archer wanted to kill Shirou, he didn't really care for the Grail. All of these signs point to the summonings as involuntary but no Fate/ property ever really clarifies this. But it's a reasonable inference that, like how some Masters were chosen somewhat randomly, Servants don't necessarily have strong motivations for being in the Grail War either. Quote:
Heck, I even forgot that I never watched a single episode of Kara no Kyoukai until I wrote this post and recalled ufotable did those movies well enough to earn the F/Z rights. Not only had I forgotten I'd not seen those movies, I forgot they existed! I envy your ability to digest different time travel models in fiction, because my high tolerance for poor presentation/graphics is compensated by an intolerance for inattention to detail. Asking a question but either giving an awful answer or failing to answer it at all when the questioner has more or less promised the audience a good answer irritates me to no end. That's a big part of why I loved Ever17 and Muv-Luv Alternative, but hated Steins;Gate and parts of G-Senjou no Maou.
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11-27-2011, 01:24 PM | #264 |
時の彼方へ
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Having not finished Fate/Zero yet, I can't really weigh in on whether it's thematically robust or thematically weak. Themes are nice, but I value them much less than (1) plot and (2) characters. There were many themes in Planetes, for instance, but I rarely bring them up because Planetes is such a character-driven series imo and its characters earn that kinda cheatey score of 10+/10 from me. They're just insanely real and very well-done. There weren't really all that many themes in Kaiji, but Kaiji is still an excellent title and that's because rather than explore themes it explores ideas about the human condition. You could call those "themes" and say I'm playing with words, but I really wouldn't label something like "people are inherently selfish" or "nice guys finish last" as themes. They're moreso ideas, concepts, arguments. And so if we are to draw that distinction between themes and arguments, I would say that, even if I can't yet judge how thematically strong Fate/Zero is going to prove to be, I can already weigh in that as far as ideas go it's done a decent job of advancing some. Ideas like ...
Spoiler: show Like, I'll totally give you that these ideas don't make the world's most compelling case for checking out the show. They don't read like the list of themes or ideas I could come up with for Romance of the Three Kingdoms or for Karei Naru Ichizoku. But the point is, even if Fate/Zero may not exactly be Theme City, it's still Idea Village. In any event, I disagree so much with many of the things you said in your reply that I think we're simply at an impasse and should drop this. There are some elements missing from Fate/Zero which to you are core components for a masterpiece but which to me are mere trifles. There are other elements present in Fate/Zero which to you can ruin a story and which to me aren't ruinous at all. Vice versa, there are positive elements in the story which to you are trifles but which to me are deal makers; and there are negative elements missing from this story (and present in many others) which I find ruinous and which you don't really care about. The result, then, is that we have very different opinions about whether Fate/Zero deserves to be called "great" or not.
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11-27-2011, 07:55 PM | #265 |
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This review of the quality of Fate/Zero's various English-language translations is the sort of thing I do all the time but never this hardcore. (Don't have the time or patience to do something like this.) But this guy did, so thank him for it , and feel free to either read the comparisons line by line or else skip ahead to read the final grades and comments.
LOL about that "UTW's first episode only had TLC for the first five minutes" bit. You may remember that I said something along the lines of "UTW's was better than Commie's in the beginning but then later it had errors of its own." I've been getting both groups' releases and will probably continue to do so as neither is really able to produce the sort of perfect fansubs we came to expect out of a.s.s.'s strato who worked on Suzumiya Haruhi. (Come back to us, strato. ) But it is neat to see this guy confirm what we suspected -- that Commie's good for a very speedy and accurate release while UTW may be what you'll want to turn to for archival purposes for that slight edge in translation accuracy. It was also neat to see how CrunchyRoll won the contest for the first half of the episode, then utterly lost it for the second half. I've said in the past (when watching Level E) that I've been rather impressed with CrunchyRoll's translation quality. This review puts me back on my toes a little bit (some of the errors in the second half of the episode were ridiculous) but it simultaneously confirms that what I'd said was (sorta) true about CR having good TLs. I guess it all boils down to who do they have working on what projects.
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11-28-2011, 01:32 AM | #266 |
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11-28-2011, 02:06 AM | #267 | ||
我が名は勇者王!
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Quote:
Shows with bad themes/main ideas can upset me for this reason. Gurren-Lagann famously trumpeted the idea that "nothing was impossible" as if manly passion was a form of plot armour that made one invincible. But while this idea was officially carried through, great tragedy followed in its wake. And an even greater one was foreshadowed to be on the horizon. It's a childish mentality to force one's way through things, but no alternative prescription was offered. So one finishes the story wondering what to believe. Ever17 had "parallels" and "motifs" but not the strong central themes that really hit me hard in Muv-Luv. But there were clear themes - Sora was a modern day analog to the statue in the Pygmalion story, and her situation was used to stress a difference between truth and reality. If one closes one's eyes, one can't see the moon. That is a reality. But the truth is the moon still exists, so as far as humans are concerned existence is rooted in faith. Sora believes she exists, the matter was getting Takeshi to go along with it. The opposite is true for Blick Winkel, who isn't even aware he exists but the belief by the characters (dramatically demonstrated in 2037) makes him realize he does. If you recall, Sora was my favourite heroine while Tsugumi's was yours. Most people tend to favour Tsugumi as well, and I have no qualms with that because she's a pure soul, real and developed. Sora is weaker, but I was able to take a philosophical idea out of her route, so my experience with hers was an even bigger plus. Seigi no Mikata: Spoiler: show FSN's is a bit different from F/Z. Emiya Shirou inherited Kiritsugu's ideal without respect to how he personally feels. One cannot distinguish between "Emiya" (the Kiritsugu ideal) and "Shirou" (the boy before being adopted), but the characters around Emiya Shirou seem to believe that a "Shirou" still exists. Kiritsugu's ideal and philosophical outlook was a product of his past. While Shirou also lost his parents, that's all they shared in common - Shirou had a stable home and was insulated from magic. So it's a bit of a question mark why he's so devoted to Kiritsugu's ideal. Even in HF, we find he's still struggling against abandoning the ideal. Nothing in his history suggests why he would cling so strongly to it, and his mentality is clearly distinct from normal people who don't like it like Saber and Rin. In this respect I find FSN's idea more interesting than F/Z's, because it's a lot more abstract and less believable. It makes one more interested in Shirou and why he would think like that, and the answer is brought in the form of Archer. Archer is rebelling against the ideal because 1) it's not possible to attain, and 2) it ruined his chance for happiness. His conclusion at the end of UBW is the thematic idea - self sacrifice. The ideal itself is beautiful, so it doesn't matter if it's feasible or not one's own, it's worth self sacrificing for. My problem with this is it's not really convincing, detailed or applicable to other people within the context of the story. It seems like just a Shirou theme only. It also isn't consistent among the paths. Saber's drive to self sacrifice was because of her burden as a leader, and her failure to protect her country made her feel guilty and inadequate for the position fate bestowed upon her. Shirou can relate, but can he understand? Can Saber really understand him? It's likewise unclear (but clearer than Fate) what exactly is Shirou's deal in HF - does he love Sakura, or does he want to preserve his idea of what Sakura is? His efforts to "save" her are not in agreement with the level of interaction. And because he dies at the end of HF, one gets the impression he was satisfied giving up his life for his ideal. Except the ideal has morphed from "save everyone" to "save one". Why People Fight: Quote:
IT IS GREAT! I gave FSN a 6/10 on vndb, and I would have given F/Z in visual novel form a 9/10. It's just lacking the icing and cherry that I'd think back on years after eating the cake. I prowled for information before pages came out and read them when they did. I don't want to leave the impression that I'm just handing this story a good rating without really appreciating it.
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望 今 信じあえる あきらめない 心かさね 永遠を抱きしめて Last edited by Doppleganger; 11-28-2011 at 03:44 AM. |
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11-30-2011, 09:19 PM | #268 |
時の彼方へ
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"That is amazing. Oh. my. God. .............. OH ......... MY........ GOD. " - me, just now
Was looking at unrelated art on Pixiv tonight and then decided to check out the Daily and Weekly rankings. And what do y'know, look what's ranked #5 right now in the Weekly Rankings: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.p...st_id=23253318 Unbelievable. That is so awesome. Spoiler: show The guy edited his description for this image to thank everybody. In it, he also mentions that this week's episode of F/Z is going to be a big one for Rider and Waver. Really, now? Can't wait. EDIT: More "Oh my God! "s out of me. I just went back to the image page and expanded the comments section. Oh lord. XD Spoiler: show
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Last edited by Talon87; 11-30-2011 at 09:36 PM. |
12-03-2011, 12:17 AM | #269 |
我が名は勇者王!
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I watched Episode 2 and really liked it, but I wouldn't call it very substantial.
This might rub people the wrong way, but right now Caster/Uryuu are my favourite pair. Although I fancy my real-life disposition as Lawful Evil, whenever I role-play I always go in as Chaotic Evil. Uryuu and Caster fit that description, whereby Caster would kill Uryuu if not for the Command Spells if he found him a hindrance or no longer amusing. The murder scene was hilarious, though I expected Caster set up a barrier and was going to watch that kid walk into an energy field (like a bug zapper). The only problem is they run the risk of getting boring, which might be their character weakness. "we're bloodthirsty murders!" is no substitute for an actual personality, and while Caster's removed mannerisms won't be enough to disguise the lack of depth. Uryuu sounds like Akira Ishida. He's in everything this season, isn't he? I'm also firmly picturing Rider as Ryuuzouji from YU-NO. Too bad, I might have liked Ryuuzouji more had the circumstances been different. 23 minutes was alleviating.
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12-04-2011, 11:45 AM | #270 |
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1.) This threads ancient
2.) I never did get around to seeing the movie 3.) Theres a new Fate anime? 4.) And a PSP game! What should I do about all of this?? |
12-04-2011, 12:12 PM | #271 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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In Brief:
Step 1: play the original game. Complete all three routes. Step 2: watch the UBW movie. (Optional.) Step 3: watch the Fate/Zero anime with us! In Detail You should play the original game for a number of reasons. One, it really is better than the show by quite a bit. Two, the Unlimited Blade Works movie won't make a lick of sense to you unless you've played its path in the game first. (Play it first, then the movie is like fun if speedy eye candy. Don't play it first, then the movie will be a frustratingly high-speed confusing mess. It omits quite a bit because it's pressed for time and it assumes the viewer has played the game already.) Three, there is no anime or film equivalent yet for the final path, Heaven's Feel, and that path reveals a lot about the true nature of the Grail Wars, about its history, and about the Matou family. These things will all be important for fully appreciating Fate/Zero. Search the thread for instructions on how to get and install the game, I'm pretty sure there are at least two different walkthroughs for how to do it. The UBW movie is fun, and it's very very pretty at times, but in the end it's only fun if you've played the game first. Everyone who played the game and then saw the film walked away from it saying, "Wow. That was a little fast-paced, but wow. " Everyone who hadn't played the game, though, and who thought the film would be a substitute for them? They walked away very confused and upset. Fate/Zero is amazing. It's one of those rare instances where the prequel is actually much, much better than the original. Basically, the way I would see it or put it to you is ... if you decide to trudge through the game, which will take around 50 to 100 hours of solid gameplay to do depending on how fast of a reader you are, you will be doing it all for the sake of then being able to fully enjoy Fate/Zero. Fate/Zero assumes complete familiarity with all three routes from the game and all the characters therein. Characters like this guy (picture) or this guy (picture) are introduced in Fate/Zero without any explanation whatsoever as to who they are because you're expected to already know who they are from having played the game. Also, details about certain characters' pasts -- particularly Kotomine Kirei's -- are revealed off-handedly in Fate/Zero and could be considered "OMG HUGE SPOILER :O" to you (or on the flipside, you might not realize how big of a deal it is and dismiss it completely ) if you haven't played the game first. These include details about his family, his past occupations, so and so forth. As for the PSP game, there's really no need to worry yourself about any of the various off-shoot games. Fate/Stay Night was ported to the PS2 at one point (as Realta Nua), and for all I know it's been reported to the PSP too. The PSP also saw some fighters (like Fate Tiger Coliseum, or whatever it's called) and some other offshoot games. Fate/Extra and Fate/Apocrypha are side games that I'm pretty sure no one considers canon. If you want to play those, great. But no one here has and (afaik) no one here has the ability to do so. (I doubt the games are going to see a stateside release with English localization, so ...)
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12-04-2011, 12:32 PM | #272 |
Kuno's Wife
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mineral Town
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Hmm basically I gotta play the game before jumping into everything else? But you said it takes like 100 hours x_x By the time I'd be done with that I would be watching this new anime alone lol. I wonder if it'd even run on my ancient PC. I'll look up those requirements and install stuffs before deciding on anything. As for the spinoffs I didn't realize there were so many! I was only refering to Fate/Extra which released in north america last month.
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12-04-2011, 12:32 PM | #273 |
我が名は勇者王!
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Fate/Extra apparently had a US release last month, which is probably why Lindsay brought it up. From what I've read about it, though, it's pretty silly. Not Tiger Coliseum silly, but it's not reverent toward TM canon.
F/Z updates - I'm almost caught up with the episodes. I don't really have much to say about them, though I'd forgotten some details, like why Kayneth got screwed up by Kiritsugu when he shot him.
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12-04-2011, 12:56 PM | #274 |
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Honestly, I'm surprised to hear that Fate/Extra got a US release but that Realta Nua (afaik) has not. I know which game I'd rather own! ^^;
Lindsay, you can dive into Fate/Zero along with us. I just don't think it's the best decision for your own overall satisfaction. Episode 1 was pretty epic to Yuki and I, two people who had played the game first, but to a lot of people on the internet, there were split opinions. Some said "I didn't like it because it was so confusing." Which it wouldn't have been had they played the game first. Others said "I enjoyed it because they did a good job explaining things for people who had never played the game before." This is even more hilarious because the plot for Episode 1 is taken straight out of the book and the book makes zero apologies for diving straight into things. Hell, the book was originally conceived of as a fanfic (more or less, but Type-Moon's blessing and even cooperation), so you can appreciate how it was never trying to hold the hands of people who might not be familiar with the Fate franchise. Anyway, point is, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice to start Fate/Zero without having played the UBW and HF paths in Fate/Stay Night first. We'd be happy to spoiler-teach you all you need to know to understand Fate/Zero, but ... do you really want that? Don't worry about not getting to watch the show with us: in just two or three weeks, this season is already over anyway, but then it's going on hiatus until April. That's right: you have until April to play the game before the show resumes. So you have plenty of time. In fact, one might even say that your timing is perfect. Play the game (e.g. play Fate in December, play UBW in January, play HF in February or March), watch all of the first twelve or thirteen episodes of Fate/Zero, and then you're caught up with us right when the first episode of the second half of the show airs in April.
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12-04-2011, 05:29 PM | #275 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Just watched Episode 10 of Fate/Zero. It was good ....... but also the season's weakest so far. ^^; It was the first episode you could even be remotely accurate in calling a "filler," but not only would you be remotely accurate in calling this one a filler, you'd be dead on. When I read on UTW's page that:
"They sure did deviate from the novel a lot though; the content for this week’s episode is practically original."I pretty much knew we were in for a filler episode adventure. And we were. That stated, it was still a good episode, and fans of Tohsaka Rin are sure to enjoy it much more than I did. The highlight for me was Kariya's brief speaking scene in the park. Spoiler: show So I guess the guy online who drew up that fanart and said "A Rider episode this week! " was fooled along with the rest of us and that we're all going to have to wait until next week to see Rider again. That stated, did you see that sneak peek? Pretty cool! Looks like the showdown between the three kings is about to begin!
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