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Old 01-31-2020, 04:25 AM   #1
Naru
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Concerns Facing Zones/Updators

Hello!

So I want to start this off by stating problems with the current structure of Fizzy Bubbles zones. We have three active zones, alongside the Arcane Realm (which is a Free For All Zone that anyone can update)... but we have a significant lack of updators for these zones. As it stands, with the active member count, we do not have enough updators to fill out the needs of the community. As it stands, many current zone updators have many members under their belt because there is no other way to go about things. Many active ZAs/ZUs have upwards of five people under their belt as it stands, and because we want Fizzy to be accessible, we try not to restrict those that desire to travel through the zones. But as it stands... this cannot continue.

We have an extremely small force of updators. After discussion with the rest of the mod team, we believe that the best course of action will be to reduce the adventure limit from two zones to one (not including AR) until we can gain more updators. As it stands, people who are updating feel the need to spread themselves thin just to ensure that everyone can enjoy Fizzy... but this system cannot maintain itself. We will need to do this unless more people are willing to step up, especially if we continue to gain new members. It's unfair to the new members to restrict them to AR because the other zones have too few updators.

We wanted to be upfront with the community about this plan, because unless people are willing to step up we will need to reduce this limit. We also wanted community feedback on what you all think is the best course of action with this issue.

We would like to hear from as many people as possible, so please, if you have thoughts share them.
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:13 AM   #2
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I can attempt to return to updating outside of the Arcane Realm in a limited capacity, if it would help somewhat. It would be far from my previous pacing and slower than the active staff we have nowadays but I still want to try and contribute. Where would I be needed?
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:15 PM   #3
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I too would be willing to help out however I can wherever im needed.
However I have no comment or opinion on how else to help.

At least at this current moment
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:38 AM   #4
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I'll help out any way I can, too.
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Old 02-24-2020, 04:40 PM   #5
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I think it's fairly clear that we've more or less reached close to full saturation when it comes to who is willing to be an updater out of our current population. Short-term, I think limiting the amount of adventures to one makes things more manageable for ZU's, and so I support the idea, but it's not sustainable. The issue with the forum is not really how the forum works on a granular level, it's simply the fact that we don't have enough people to make it work smoothly.

We need more people. If we can't get more ZU's out of our current population, then all we can really do is stagnate and slowly die out as people leave, either out of boredom, stress or simply moving on from the forum.

In my eyes, there are two ways we can really accomplish this. The first and likely more acceptable method is to advertise ourselves on social media and other sites where we can draw in people who like Pokemon and would want to immerse themselves into FB's world and systems. This should be relatively simple through sites like Reddit, but it can also be done on Discord Servers and other forums, rules allowing. Emphasis on the perks of ZU'ing should be placed, not to pressure people into becoming updaters, but rather to let them know that it's a position that's open and should ideally be low-pressure, which is an issue I've seen expressed by people who were interested in updating but feared that they would be held to an unreasonably high standard in doing so.

I was brought here by a good friend who suggested that I would like roleplaying here, and I'm very grateful for it. While I've been stressed and unable to participate much due to work, I still have an interest in continuing to be here and updating for peeps in CG, as well as continuing my own story across the Zones. I think the more instances of that we can find by reaching out to people outside the community, the better. However, this plan requires the help of as many people as possible to draw in the numbers we need to get back on our feet. We need regular users to be willing to make opportunities that will our forum's numbers, not just ZU's, or ZA's, shopowners, or admins.

The second solution is a little more radical, and I'd reserve it only for if it is absolutely necessary that users understand that we need new users to survive. I've been observing the general flow of FB for about a year or so, and it's become apparent to me that progress is not dependent on adventuring, and therefore not dependent on the existence of ZU's and ZA's. Thanks to services like the Daycare, Birthdays, Events, and the Hatchery, and now Raids, it is perfectly possible to level up your Pokemon, learn new moves, raise their bonds, and even aquire entirely new Pokemon without having to even touch a Zone.

Half of my team has come from these avenues. Without having even completed and adventure I feel like more liberal use of the Daycare and various faculties could've led me to evolving my starter before even signing up for another zone outside of where I intro'd. I haven't even touched my egg slots, which I could've been using to gain even more Pokemon in the interim between updates in my adventure.

This is not a dig at my updater, I've been absolutely loving the adventure even after all this time, but I think it sheds a light on the fact that FB is in several ways an idle game. Users are rewarded quite lavishly for the passage of time rather than regular, beneficial participation. I believe that while many users still provide amply to the community, it also obfuscates just how important ZA's and ZU's are to the forum by allowing progress, albeit very slow progress, to occur without any participation in a Zone, and the writing aspect of the forum in general.

If necessary, I propose a temporary halt on most, if not all idle systems. Daycare, Hatchery, Shops, ect. It would need to be made clear that without new users, and without more updaters, there would be no FB. It's not a pretty thing to have to do, which is why it should be reserved for when absolutely no other solutions have been working and an incentive to grow the userbase is the only way to steer the forum from away from simply dying.

Regardless of how we get there, I believe growing our userbase is the long-term goal we need to strive towards. While it would be impossible to fix things immediately, the best time to start that fixing is right now. If you've been thinking of inviting someone: Do it. If you're in a suitable Discord of Pokemon fans where you're allowed to advertise: Put that ad out there. Even if it's only 1 or 2 people, it will absolutely get us started on the right road. Most importantly, if you've been thinking of wanting to update in a Zone, even if it's one adventure in Arcane Realms: Please, we could use your help.

Best Regards - ShadowDRGN

Last edited by ShadowDRGN; 02-24-2020 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Elaborated on things. Sorry, one more!
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDRGN View Post
I think it's fairly clear that we've more or less reached close to full saturation when it comes to who is willing to be an updater out of our current population. Short-term, I think limiting the amount of adventures to one makes things more manageable for ZU's, and so I support the idea, but it's not sustainable. The issue with the forum is not really how the forum works on a granular level, it's simply the fact that we don't have enough people to make it work smoothly.

We need more people. If we can't get more ZU's out of our current population, then all we can really do is stagnate and slowly die out as people leave, either out of boredom, stress or simply moving on from the forum.

In my eyes, there are two ways we can really accomplish this. The first and likely more acceptable method is to advertise ourselves on social media and other sites where we can draw in people who like Pokemon and would want to immerse themselves into FB's world and systems. This should be relatively simple through sites like Reddit, but it can also be done on Discord Servers and other forums, rules allowing. Emphasis on the perks of ZU'ing should be placed, not to pressure people into becoming updaters, but rather to let them know that it's a position that's open and should ideally be low-pressure, which is an issue I've seen expressed by people who were interested in updating but feared that they would be held to an unreasonably high standard in doing so.

I was brought here by a good friend who suggested that I would like roleplaying here, and I'm very grateful for it. While I've been stressed and unable to participate much due to work, I still have an interest in continuing to be here and updating for peeps in CG, as well as continuing my own story across the Zones. I think the more instances of that we can find by reaching out to people outside the community, the better. However, this plan requires the help of as many people as possible to draw in the numbers we need to get back on our feet. We need regular users to be willing to make opportunities that will our forum's numbers, not just ZU's, or ZA's, shopowners, or admins.

The second solution is a little more radical, and I'd reserve it only for if it is absolutely necessary that users understand that we need new users to survive. I've been observing the general flow of FB for about a year or so, and it's become apparent to me that progress is not dependent on adventuring, and therefore not dependent on the existence of ZU's and ZAs. Thanks to services like the Daycare, Birthdays, Events, and the Hatchery, and now Raids, it is perfectly possible to level up your Pokemon, learn new moves, raise their bonds, and even acquire entirely new Pokemon without having to even touch a Zone.

Half of my team has come from these avenues. Without having even completed and adventure I feel like more liberal use of the Daycare and various faculties could've led me to evolving my starter before even signing up for another zone outside of where I intro'd. I haven't even touched my egg slots, which I could've been using to gain even more Pokemon in the interim between updates in my adventure.

This is not a dig at my updater, I've been loving the adventure even after all this time, but I think it sheds a light on the fact that FB is in several ways an idle game. Users are rewarded quite lavishly for the passage of time rather than regular, beneficial participation. I believe that while many users still provide amply to the community, it also obfuscates just how important ZA's and ZU's are to the forum by allowing progress, albeit very slow progress, to occur without any participation in a Zone, and the writing aspect of the forum in general.

If necessary, I propose a temporary halt on most, if not all idle systems. Daycare, Hatchery, Shops, etc. It would need to be made clear that without new users, and more updaters, there would be no FB. It's not a pretty thing to have to do, which is why it should be reserved for when absolutely no other solutions have been working and an incentive to grow the userbase is the only way to steer the forum from away from simply dying.

Regardless of how we get there, I believe growing our userbase is the long-term goal we need to strive towards. While it would be impossible to fix things immediately, the best time to start that fixing is right now. If you've been thinking of inviting someone: Do it. If you're in a suitable Discord of Pokemon fans where you're allowed to advertise: Put that ad out there. Even if it's only 1 or 2 people, it will get us started on the right road. Most importantly, if you've been thinking of wanting to update in a Zone, even if it's one adventure in Arcane Realms: Please, we could use your help.

Best Regards - ShadowDRGN

I actually agree with this to a fair degree.

Edit;
One of the things mentioned about was letting Updators having an additional Adventure Slots. We also discussed makin all of FB Zones into a Free For all Zone, however, that was countered due to there would need to be an equal ammount of Updators to Updatees.

We also thought about tossing the App procces.

Emi suggested that we limit the current adventure slots to 1, and bump that limit up per more updator we have. (ie we have 7 updators, so when we get 6 more updators we bump it back to normal and so on so forth ) however we need a fail safe in ase of LOA's or Dropping off the face of te earth.
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Last edited by Prof.Enigma; 02-24-2020 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:31 PM   #7
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This time on "Takes No-One Asked For":

Honestly, I think half of the reason we're short on updators is motivation, which is very much a personal thing. The other half, from what I've seen and felt, is mostly just a lack of obvious support for new updators. Yes you're expected to be bouncing stuff around with your ZA and other ZUs, but ultimately it's unstructured, and especially when I did updating for roughly about a week of actually doing it I was paranoid that what I was churning out was a steaming pile of shite and was going to kill the interest of the updatee. Maybe a system to provide a little more feedback and some pointers to start people off with would help, like having an experienced hand read over the updates and provide some feedback, or maybe pairing newer updators with more experienced updatees who can reassure them and maybe offer advice? Idk just spitballing ideas.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
This time on "Takes No-One Asked For":

Honestly, I think half of the reason we're short on updators is motivation, which is very much a personal thing. The other half, from what I've seen and felt, is mostly just a lack of obvious support for new updators. Yes you're expected to be bouncing stuff around with your ZA and other ZUs, but ultimately it's unstructured, and especially when I did updating for roughly about a week of actually doing it I was paranoid that what I was churning out was a steaming pile of shite and was going to kill the interest of the updatee. Maybe a system to provide a little more feedback and some pointers to start people off with would help, like having an experienced hand read over the updates and provide some feedback, or maybe pairing newer updators with more experienced updatees who can reassure them and maybe offer advice? Idk just spitballing ideas.
I agree. Proper guidance and tips can make the difference between a motivated and confident updater and someone who is basically diving headfirst into crafting a compelling adventure for someone else, something which can be a tad on the really abstract side.

I noticed Enigma working on some guide stuff for new users. Something like that could really help things, if we can't end up doing a buddy system for training new ZU's. Giving updates room for feedback is also another thing I agree we should encourage. Most users tend to just write out the fiction, maybe a line or two that's OOC to describe their actions or more mechanical things like "I give this item to my Pokemon". That OOC space is prime real estate for giving or prompting feedback, especially to those who aren't on the FB Discord and don't have access to most of the ZU's on the forum.
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Old 02-24-2020, 09:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDRGN View Post
I agree. Proper guidance and tips can make the difference between a motivated and confident updater and someone who is basically diving headfirst into crafting a compelling adventure for someone else, something which can be a tad on the really abstract side.

I noticed Enigma working on some guide stuff for new users. Something like that could really help things, if we can't end up doing a buddy system for training new ZU's. Giving updates room for feedback is also another thing I agree we should encourage. Most users tend to just write out the fiction, maybe a line or two that's OOC to describe their actions or more mechanical things like "I give this item to my Pokemon". That OOC space is prime real estate for giving or prompting feedback, especially to those who aren't on the FB Discord and don't have access to most of the ZU's on the forum.
The beginners guide issue was fixed, the mods forgot / remembered we already have a beginners guide.

However I can pitch in and help make a guidline for updating.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDRGN View Post
I think it's fairly clear that we've more or less reached close to full saturation when it comes to who is willing to be an updater out of our current population. Short-term, I think limiting the amount of adventures to one makes things more manageable for ZU's, and so I support the idea, but it's not sustainable. The issue with the forum is not really how the forum works on a granular level, it's simply the fact that we don't have enough people to make it work smoothly.

We need more people. If we can't get more ZU's out of our current population, then all we can really do is stagnate and slowly die out as people leave, either out of boredom, stress or simply moving on from the forum.

In my eyes, there are two ways we can really accomplish this. The first and likely more acceptable method is to advertise ourselves on social media and other sites where we can draw in people who like Pokemon and would want to immerse themselves into FB's world and systems. This should be relatively simple through sites like Reddit, but it can also be done on Discord Servers and other forums, rules allowing. Emphasis on the perks of ZU'ing should be placed, not to pressure people into becoming updaters, but rather to let them know that it's a position that's open and should ideally be low-pressure, which is an issue I've seen expressed by people who were interested in updating but feared that they would be held to an unreasonably high standard in doing so.
New members are great and all, but if we bring in more people that feel overwhelmed by updating/cannot update for one reason or another we're just adding more fuel to the current problem.

The overwhelmed by updating bit is, of course, a legitimate problem. But the main issue with that is that with all conversation, it is a two way street. The current zones are overseen by myself, TKF, Gary and Lit --- all four of us are active on Discord and on the forum and could have been approached at any time with questions pertaining to updating in any of our zones if one so desired. I mentioned ages ago that DG would be a low stress updating environment and stressed this repeatedly. I explained that no experience would be necessary to update and you could do it at your own pace but this still did extremely little to actually attract people to the position. I do, however, also understand that some people do not have the free time to update as we do all have people in our lives/jobs/school/other life stuff to attend to first. Which, of course, means that not everyone is able to update and that's perfectly alright.

Quote:
I was brought here by a good friend who suggested that I would like roleplaying here, and I'm very grateful for it. While I've been stressed and unable to participate much due to work, I still have an interest in continuing to be here and updating for peeps in CG, as well as continuing my own story across the Zones. I think the more instances of that we can find by reaching out to people outside the community, the better. However, this plan requires the help of as many people as possible to draw in the numbers we need to get back on our feet. We need regular users to be willing to make opportunities that will our forum's numbers, not just ZU's, or ZA's, shopowners, or admins.
A main concern with branching out more than we already have in this regard is we are significantly lacking in man-power. If we had a sudden influx of new members due to Reddit/Other Discords/Forums, these new members would need an introduction to the rules, get comfortable with the roleplay, etc. etc. before they would feel comfortable updating in an environment they are unfamiliar with. With our current updator pool this is absolutely not feasible.

Well we do want to give people a chance, it is extremely important that they understand Fizzy rules and Guidelines before becoming an updator, as it is important to not spread misinformation that will affect the roleplay/also give everyone equal opportunities (in regards to rewards/adventures) for Fizzy.

Quote:
The second solution is a little more radical, and I'd reserve it only for if it is absolutely necessary that users understand that we need new users to survive. I've been observing the general flow of FB for about a year or so, and it's become apparent to me that progress is not dependent on adventuring, and therefore not dependent on the existence of ZU's and ZA's. Thanks to services like the Daycare, Birthdays, Events, and the Hatchery, and now Raids, it is perfectly possible to level up your Pokemon, learn new moves, raise their bonds, and even acquire entirely new Pokemon without having to even touch a Zone.

Half of my team has come from these avenues. Without having even completed and adventure I feel like more liberal use of the Daycare and various faculties could've led me to evolving my starter before even signing up for another zone outside of where I intro'd. I haven't even touched my egg slots, which I could've been using to gain even more Pokemon in the interim between updates in my adventure.

This is not a dig at my updater, I've been absolutely loving the adventure even after all this time, but I think it sheds a light on the fact that FB is in several ways an idle game. Users are rewarded quite lavishly for the passage of time rather than regular, beneficial participation. I believe that while many users still provide amply to the community, it also obfuscates just how important ZA's and ZU's are to the forum by allowing progress, albeit very slow progress, to occur without any participation in a Zone, and the writing aspect of the forum in general.

If necessary, I propose a temporary halt on most, if not all idle systems. Daycare, Hatchery, Shops, ect. It would need to be made clear that without new users, and without more updaters, there would be no FB. It's not a pretty thing to have to do, which is why it should be reserved for when absolutely no other solutions have been working and an incentive to grow the userbase is the only way to steer the forum from away from simply dying.
My issue with this is, sure, Fizzy Bubbles is by no means a shop simulator like it once was back in the TessB era... but each shop does server a purpose. Events and Raids are a way to bring the community closer together during the slow times, and the Gym/Raid system has been in the works for a very long time (the Gym System was in talks even before TKF and myself became moderators). Of course the roleplay as a whole is the main draw, but other systems like Raids/Events/Birthdays are meant to be engaging to the community as well.

Raids and Events normally, if you choose to do so, give you a chance to flesh out team members that may not get a chance in a zone. I personally use these events and raids to flesh out my trainers and Pokemon more, giving them backstories and problems that I would be unable to do in most zone settings. I used the first raid to evolve a Pokemon, and I've often used events to establish inner friendships/relationships between my Pokemon or to further explore Isaac and Olivia's characters.

I personally think a halting of all the shops would cause Fizzy to stagnate even more than it already has. Raids have breathed new life into the forum during the slow months (most ZUs are currently very busy irl, I can vouch for several who have spoken about it on Discord). Things will eventually pick back up, but with the current season (midterm season (almost finals tbh)/weather getting nicer/flu season taking it's toll on some people) most people are very very busy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof.Enigma View Post
I actually agree with this to a fair degree.

Edit;
One of the things mentioned about was letting Updators having an additional Adventure Slots. We also discussed makin all of FB Zones into a Free For all Zone, however, that was countered due to there would need to be an equal ammount of Updators to Updatees.

We also thought about tossing the App procces.

Emi suggested that we limit the current adventure slots to 1, and bump that limit up per more updator we have. (ie we have 7 updators, so when we get 6 more updators we bump it back to normal and so on so forth ) however we need a fail safe in ase of LOA's or Dropping off the face of te earth.
Honestly, I will admit I'm an advocate for the updators having an additional adventure slot if it meant that more people would be interested in updating. As it currently stands though, this is only feasible should we go the route of dropping everyone to one adventure (+AR) at least in my opinion.

All FB Zones to FFAZ is an idea I am personally extremely against. It does nothing to lessen the current problem, as we would still need people willing to update in the zones. Zone Admins are there to oversee, and sometimes to assign people to people. However, we always try to ensure that it is within your means. I don't mean to put them on the spot, but Lit and Big updated as my ZUs for quite some time. Big can vouch that when he mentioned he only wanted one or two people, I ensured that I only gave him one to two people. I also try to do check-ins with my ZUs to make sure that they're handling everything alright.

What do you mean by app process? Do you mean applying to update in zones? If so, that's an entirely optional thing that some ZAs do. However, if someone approached me on Discord with a simple DM that read "Hi! I was hoping to update in DG" I would very likely accept them unless there was a misunderstanding about certain aspects of Fizzy Rules and Guidelines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
This time on "Takes No-One Asked For":

Honestly, I think half of the reason we're short on updators is motivation, which is very much a personal thing. The other half, from what I've seen and felt, is mostly just a lack of obvious support for new updators. Yes you're expected to be bouncing stuff around with your ZA and other ZUs, but ultimately it's unstructured, and especially when I did updating for roughly about a week of actually doing it I was paranoid that what I was churning out was a steaming pile of shite and was going to kill the interest of the updatee. Maybe a system to provide a little more feedback and some pointers to start people off with would help, like having an experienced hand read over the updates and provide some feedback, or maybe pairing newer updators with more experienced updatees who can reassure them and maybe offer advice? Idk just spitballing ideas.
Burn-out is very much a thing. Hell, it's why I took a six month break from updating. I understand where you're coming from... but at the same time, how is supposed to be more structured? Most Zones, at least ones that I've updated in have group chats where you are fully able to talk to your fellow ZUs/the ZA. In my opinion, people overstress about updating way too much. I know it's easy to say "don't stress" but for the most part, it's just understanding the rules/lore of the area you're updating and working from there. Most areas only have a vague description so that you can put your own spin on various aspects of it. Most of my updates really are just spitballing and throwing random junk at a board until it sticks. (See: Lit's LMN Adventure from me or Patches LMN Adventure from me).

I'm not sure how other ZUs feel about this area, but, again, I'm going to reiterate a point I made previously: you, as a user are free to reach out to the moderation team/a ZA to check over any questions or concerns you might have. The issue with wanting someone to look over your shoulder is many people who have been updating for a few months/years don't really know when to jump in/don't want to seem nitpicky by pointing out everything you do. If you approach someone and ask for help, help will pretty much always be given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDRGN View Post
I agree. Proper guidance and tips can make the difference between a motivated and confident updater and someone who is basically diving headfirst into crafting a compelling adventure for someone else, something which can be a tad on the really abstract side.

I noticed Enigma working on some guide stuff for new users. Something like that could really help things, if we can't end up doing a buddy system for training new ZU's. Giving updates room for feedback is also another thing I agree we should encourage. Most users tend to just write out the fiction, maybe a line or two that's OOC to describe their actions or more mechanical things like "I give this item to my Pokemon". That OOC space is prime real estate for giving or prompting feedback, especially to those who aren't on the FB Discord and don't have access to most of the ZU's on the forum.
Hi, I'm literally the latter and I've been updating for three years lmao. As I said to Iron's point... things don't need to be these amazing and lavish adventures. Most of the time it's just going off of the area/the intro post and spitballing from there. If I want to roll with some weirdness... I just... do it. As long as it's within reason for the area myself and my updatee are in. Again, I find that people heavily over-complicate what updating is supposed to be: a fun experience to tell a story which does not need to be extremely complicated.

(sorry to put another user on the spot but it's easier to get my points across this way) MM entered DG and went straight to the Colosseum in Romma. Without speaking to him or even reading the update I can infer two things:
1. He wants some battles
2. Considering the area he is not expecting some grand sprawling adventure.

Upon reading his intro post I got him into a Colosseum battle and eventually it spiraled into uncovering the gruesome practices going on behind the closed doors of the Colosseum. This did not take a ton of forethought on my end and was actually a very easy start for me to do.

As for the second point... I'm not really sure what feedback people would want? We have users from all different walks of Roleplaying experience and it would feel wrong to comment on aspects of a person's style if they're just starting out. I had this happen to me when I was younger on Serebii and it was honestly more discouraging than anything. Even tips, without a proper tonal indication, can sometimes read as nitpicks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof.Enigma View Post
The beginners guide issue was fixed, the mods forgot / remembered we already have a beginners guide.

However I can pitch in and help make a guidline for updating.
Considering some of the points I've made (again, I'm speaking as an individual here and I'm not pretending that I'm speaking for the moderation team as a whole --- this is 100% Naru opinions). I don't think there needs to be a guide/guidelines to updating. New updators are free to ask for second opinions at any time and have always been allowed to. Not to mention that I think a guideline on "how to update" would just make the process seem daunting (and a lot of users considering opinions posted in the discord and here, already find the whole process daunting). Putting a whole guide out on how to do it/tips on how to do it would only add to that in my opinion.

We want updators to have a sense of freedom, and putting a "this is how updates should be done" or "proper ways to update" out there makes it feel like there's a science of some kind to it... which, if I was a new updator, would seem discouraging if I did not have the same ideas/methods to updating. Everyone does it differently. Myself, Enigma, Shadow, TKF, Raves, Lit, Etc. All have our own ways to updating... almost like a signature of some kind.

However, if there was a real want for this I would, again, prefer for the community to gather their thoughts on what would need to be included and let the moderation team handle it so that it could be included in a proper publication (similar to the members post/beginners guide stuff).

This isn't much of a solution from myself either... but I want people who are afraid of updating for one reason or another to understand that it's not as difficult as it seems from some standpoints... nor are ZAs strict and uncaring about needs/wants of ZUs. We want you to enjoy updating and understand that you have lives outside of the game. I would never confront my updators about pace unless I was approached by their updatees first (something like "I haven't been updated in 7 months, is there any chance that I could maybe get one?" or if they went stagnant for about a year).
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:17 AM   #11
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So I'm going to take some time to enumerate my thoughts as well as touch on many of the proposals and ideas that have been brought up. Not only have I thought long and hard about this as a mod but this has been an issue that has come up time and time again not only in FB but also ASB and WF.

Here's the unfortunate truth at the end of the day: Updater lulls tend to work themselves out. Usually, people will start updating again with little rhyme or reason. This makes it really hard to discuss ways to actually boost updator numbers, as its almost random.

Let's talk about why people don't update for a bit:

1) Motivation. They simply don't want to update for one reason or another. Now the question here is "how do we motivate them" and usually that's in rewards, but I'd argue we already have a pretty robust reward system already and that rewards are already in quite a good spot. Most of the people here aren't really going to be motivated to update.

2) Time. There's not much that can be done with this. Some people just don't have time to update. It happens.

3) Fear. This is the big one that I've been seeing, is that people are scared to update. I'm going to agree with Naru here, that's mostly on you guys. ZAs are supposed to be approachable for these matters, and I'd argue that given that I know all of them on a good level that this is true. Every ZA here right now would rather you be the most comfortable in updating than try to force you to do more than you can. This is all coming from assumptions and assumptions have been the cause of a lot of bad things in FB. It caused the Casino fiasco, it caused the Shadow Pokemon fiasco, etc.

Now to discuss some of the proposals

A) Advertisement

Advertisement is something we should be doing anyway, and have done, in the past. But let me make something immensely clear, it is not, and never will be, a short term solution to this problem. You cannot give a bottle of water to a man who has been without a drink for 3 days. He'll vomit it up. If you flood FB with too many members, they're not going to be retained because we're already struggling updator-wise, and they're going to put more strain and burn out than already exists.

We also just can't hire people as ZUs out of the gate. While this is, for the most part, a low-pressure job we actually need to make sure that people know what they are doing and how FB works.

This is a long-term plan that is incredibly harmful is applied to the short-term.

B) Freezing the Idle side of things

This actually does not solve the problem you think it does. This solves not having enough updatees, not updators. We've also been begging for updators to at least attempt to provide a meaningful progression in updates, and that's proven to be really tough. In Tess FB levels weren't awarded much in adventures, and it has proven to be really difficult to change that zeitgeist.

C) FFAZ

Alright, I'm going to have to ask that this be nipped in the bud. This isn't actually a proposal worth discussing in any way, and that's in large because a bunch of the new members don't particularly understand what an FFAZ is.

The original FFAZ had absolutely zero structure to it. It was literally just a place where people could either practice updating in a no-stakes environment where you could pretty much do whatever you want, or it allowed you to go outside the realm of what was possible in zones if you wanted to. That's what an FFAZ was in its original inception.

Bedlam Ridge was not an FFAZ, but it had the FFAZ updator structure because we didn't have an actual codified process to qualify ZUs because we didn't even have zones yet. Bedlam Ridge was constructed out of necessity to have something. But even it was not a true FFAZ at all.

Changing all zones to have that FFAZ structure is not beneficial in the slightest. First of all, it offers no direct benefit to anyone updating. It doesn't make updating easier unless you're simply bad at updating and know you'd be rejected anyway. Secondly, it blatantly ignores the purpose of FFAZ: to allow people to practice updating or to allow people to update without a structure existing. Bedlam Ridge was never meant to be the standard going forward, and changing all zones to be like Bedlam Ridge isn't a good idea.

This again goes into the idea of assumptions. The assumption is that making things FFAZ removes pressure. But it doesn't. You're still going to have ZAs who want you to update (both Bedlam Ridge and the Arcane Realm have ZAs). What it does is removes the modest wall that keeps people who have no idea about the rules or general feel of FB from updating in zones with consistent structures. That's the point.

Also, most people don't want to update period.

D) Beginner's Guide to Updating

Do you mean a beginner's guide to story-making? That's basically it.

Every zone is going to have unique aspects that require an updator to think about things differently. Setting and unique challenges will inevitably change your story. Providing a broad guide often isn't feasible, or really doable. Every updator updates in a different style and often has different ideas about what does and doesn't fly. Some updators don't like supernatural phenomenon. But Fizzu Bubbles has a rich history of that. Some people don't like non-Pokemon references. But Fizzy Bubbles has a rich history of that.

It's an incredibly daunting task, to begin with, because it is attempting to codify a very freeform system, but you also can't ignore 10+ years of precedent.



So after taking the time to tear down everyone else's opinions what are my solutions to all of this?

1) Reduce the number of adventure slots temporarily. This is the best short term solution to reducing updator workload.
2) Find a way to better foster proper information and communication between ZAs, ZUs, and potential updators. While, again, I heavily recommend you ask questions instead of internalizing assumptions, it might be a good idea to try and sit down and discuss what exactly ZAs want, especially right now.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:55 AM   #12
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Fear blocks new updaters. Emi and Naru covered this and I agree with them.
Time blocks all updaters. Unavoidable, we manage however we can within the confines of our personal freedom and knowing activity inherently fluctuates.
Motivation blocks some of the current updaters, and this is where I think we could turn (some of) our attention towards (beyond the other valid aspects currently in discussion).

Speaking from someone who has been updating since 2013 with less time to do so than ever, and knowing this isn't the majority's opinion (and why, justifiably so, you're reluctant to change it), I still think a revision of the reward ladder merits consideration as one of many aspects of FB that should be handled dynamically. If I need to muscle out 5 updates to reach a Gummi threshold I''ll probably feel more compelled to employ my limited free time doing something else - even if that's my problem and ultimately my choice, I stand by the opinion that carrots should sometimes be dangled a bit closer.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:14 AM   #13
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New members are great and all, but if we bring in more people that feel overwhelmed by updating/cannot update for one reason or another we're just adding more fuel to the current problem.

The overwhelmed by updating bit is, of course, a legitimate problem. But the main issue with that is that with all conversation, it is a two way street. The current zones are overseen by myself, TKF, Gary and Lit --- all four of us are active on Discord and on the forum and could have been approached at any time with questions pertaining to updating in any of our zones if one so desired. I mentioned ages ago that DG would be a low stress updating environment and stressed this repeatedly. I explained that no experience would be necessary to update and you could do it at your own pace but this still did extremely little to actually attract people to the position. I do, however, also understand that some people do not have the free time to update as we do all have people in our lives/jobs/school/other life stuff to attend to first. Which, of course, means that not everyone is able to update and that's perfectly alright.

A main concern with branching out more than we already have in this regard is we are significantly lacking in man-power. If we had a sudden influx of new members due to Reddit/Other Discords/Forums, these new members would need an introduction to the rules, get comfortable with the roleplay, etc. etc. before they would feel comfortable updating in an environment they are unfamiliar with. With our current updator pool this is absolutely not feasible.

Well we do want to give people a chance, it is extremely important that they understand Fizzy rules and Guidelines before becoming an updator, as it is important to not spread misinformation that will affect the roleplay/also give everyone equal opportunities (in regards to rewards/adventures) for Fizzy.
I think in a lot of ways we do need people who expect the workload and are prepared to handle it. People with experience overseeing these kinds of things: GM's, people who have previously moderated in other places, people with... people skills, ect.

I'm not saying flood any website possible with indiscriminate ads, maybe I should've been more clear on that front. We should absolutely try to identify people who will be a good fit for the community and the workflow of updating and reach out to them so that we can build that foundation of ZU's who can then handle the influx of people who are simply here to adventure.

It should be a careful, slow process for long-term improvement, I apologize if I came across as wanting to get 100 new members right this instant. That's my main angle here, so always remember that almost anything I propose is a long-term goal, not a short-term plan.

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My issue with this is, sure, Fizzy Bubbles is by no means a shop simulator like it once was back in the TessB era... but each shop does server a purpose. Events and Raids are a way to bring the community closer together during the slow times, and the Gym/Raid system has been in the works for a very long time (the Gym System was in talks even before TKF and myself became moderators). Of course the roleplay as a whole is the main draw, but other systems like Raids/Events/Birthdays are meant to be engaging to the community as well.

Raids and Events normally, if you choose to do so, give you a chance to flesh out team members that may not get a chance in a zone. I personally use these events and raids to flesh out my trainers and Pokemon more, giving them backstories and problems that I would be unable to do in most zone settings. I used the first raid to evolve a Pokemon, and I've often used events to establish inner friendships/relationships between my Pokemon or to further explore Isaac and Olivia's characters.

I personally think a halting of all the shops would cause Fizzy to stagnate even more than it already has. Raids have breathed new life into the forum during the slow months (most ZUs are currently very busy irl, I can vouch for several who have spoken about it on Discord). Things will eventually pick back up, but with the current season (midterm season (almost finals tbh)/weather getting nicer/flu season taking it's toll on some people) most people are very very busy.
This isn't a seasonal phenomenon. Like I said, I've observed things for about a whole year. This is an all-year-round problem, and it's going to grow worse once another mod or ZU leaves for good instead of being gone most of the time.

I think what I want to get across here is the difference between meaningful and non-meaningful participation within the context of the issue at-hand, which is exclusively about our need for Zone Updaters. A lot of these shops and events do not contribute to the health of the Zones or Zone Updaters. Yes, they contribute to overall activity on the forum, but it does so in a way that sidesteps the very thing that's supposed to be at the heart of the game: Adventuring and writing.

Frankly put: To me, a lot of it feels like a crutch for the fact that the forum is incredibly slow at all times of the year due to our staff shortage. If people need these systems in order to not feel like we're a graveyard where their Pokemon never get attention, they never feel like they're progressing, then that says something about the state of the game itself and what needs to change in order to improve it, no?

Like, since we're already in the territory of anecdotes, here's mine regarding this issue: I find a lot of these systems overtuned. While I understand that it gives people something to do while they wait, I don't think it's audacious to admit that maybe it's moving things away from updates and adventures. After all, the speed of interaction and general convenience of Discord is basically the reason why I'm barely even on the forum for more than just official business. If the Discord didn't exist I'd be much more inclined to be present here instead.

I'm not a reward-centric person usually, but I do find it hard to stay motivated to adventure, or even update other people's adventures, when I know that the glacial pace of these adventures will result in like, one, maybe two significant rewards. But, in the time it takes to get those rewards out of roleplaying and crafting a great story, those characters have already Evolved their Pokemon, gotten tons of TM's, EM's and MT's for them off of events, gotten completely new Pokemon, ect. ect. It makes my adventure feel like a slog for little purpose other than because writing is fun (and some people like myself are motivated just to write, but some people are not, as evidenced by how hard some of us are pushing the FC rewards to be changed). As a ZU, makes their adventure feel like a formality when the main purpose of the adventure in the user's eyes was accomplished 3 months ago as a result of an event or just the simple act of waiting and using the facilities available through the rest of the forum.

Am I saying the Discord, or the shop systems, are bad? No, I'm just stating that both have an effect on how the behaviors and routines of our users, as well as how they may subconsciously view the current issue at hand. Maybe some of our regular users aren't seeing a problem because there are so many ways to find something to do on this forum in spite of the staff shortage that it doesn't make them think about how badly we need people behind the curtains making everything run. Maybe they aren't seeing the problem because most of the power-users are using the conveniences of Discord to talk about the issue away from the eyes of people who might be more inclined to help if we talked about all the things we did here. The fact that I'm only seeing staff members in this post discussing these things is a little worrying to me, because I'm honestly concerned that the end of the day this thread won't actually see any attention by the userbase at large, and we'll be back to the drawing board.

And at the point where we'd have to take my second solution into effect, we'd be at a point where literally nothing else has worked. That was what I said earlier, and I'm sticking by that. I do not encourage using this solution in any situation other than in the most dire of circumstances, if it is absolutely clear that it's the only way to make people care about what's happening.

Finally, I would encourage people to be open-minded and not try to take every solution to their worst or most poorly-implemented conclusion. I have faith that we're more competent than failing at literally anything we try to do. It's easy to look at an idea and simply pick apart every thing that could go wrong and ruin literally everything. I believe that mindset turns people defensive about the status quo and prevents necessary change. Instead, try and look at proposed solutions and build off of them, find ways to strengthen it with your own ideas, you can absolutely patch flaws in the system this way.

For example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
2) Find a way to better foster proper information and communication between ZAs, ZUs, and potential updators. While, again, I heavily recommend you ask questions instead of internalizing assumptions, it might be a good idea to try and sit down and discuss what exactly ZAs want, especially right now.
I agree with this. As someone who's been RP'ing and DM'ing for many, many years, communication is key to making any of this run smoothly. So many times I've had to deal with not knowing what people want in both FB, TTRPG's and just general collab writing, and not knowing if something I'm writing would appeal to them or go against their character or established lore about themselves.

The moment you open up a line of communication with the other person, it becomes far easier. I think one of the issues we need to solve is that both updaters and updatees tend to be secretive. They don't like giving away anything they're writing to the other side in fear that they'll spoil the surprise or that it will be used against them. I think this is a mindset that should be changed.

But simply saying that is just one part of the picture. How exactly do you do it? Throwing out PSA's and reminders won't really change things, as only a few people are both going to see them, internalize those words, and actually make efforts when it comes time to apply what they read. Many people need to experience the benefit of communication for themselves in order to make a habit of it.

The problem right now is that most of us have to deal with a large amount of updatees that it's hard to keep talking to all of them consistently and with the same level of enthusiasm. That might just be a me thing, but I find that the more people I have to one-on-one with, the harder it is to maintain those contacts. Ghosting people becomes really easy when you can self-justify by the fact that you have half a dozen other people you're still talking to, and you feel like anything more would negatively affect your health.

But what about a room with all those people in it? That way any conversation between one updatee also spreads to the others, creating activity and boosting the ability of one ZU to keep in touch with everyone under their wing. This is actually a thing that's basically a staple of pbp TTRPG's, and that's the OOC channel. A place that's dedicated to discussion of the game, but isn't in the way of the actual fiction itself.

Now, we technically have those on the Discord, but I feel like it's a poor solution simply because not everybody on FB uses, or will ever use, Discord. We have plenty of users who are not part of that circle, and thus will be left out of the conversation if they decide to adventure under a ZU with 2 or 3 other people who are all in the server and talking amongst themselves.

So, what I think would help is if each Updater has their own OOC thread, perhaps in a new section of the FB sub. This can be a place where updatees can easily access their updaters in a group chat, where everyone is part of the conversation and communication is as direct (due to the context of the thread) as a DM, but without as much pressure that arises from having to converse with multiple people regularly over DM's. It also allows other players to chime in and help with the small stuff that new users are usually confused about. General rules, FAQ's, ect.

It could also just be a place to shoot the shit, too, but ideally it should be dedicated towards helping both parties work out the story they want to craft together, sometimes with the help of other people.

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Old 02-26-2020, 11:39 AM   #14
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Speaking from someone who has been updating since 2013 with less time to do so than ever, and knowing this isn't the majority's opinion (and why, justifiably so, you're reluctant to change it), I still think a revision of the reward ladder merits consideration as one of many aspects of FB that should be handled dynamically. If I need to muscle out 5 updates to reach a Gummi threshold I''ll probably feel more compelled to employ my limited free time doing something else - even if that's my problem and ultimately my choice, I stand by the opinion that carrots should sometimes be dangled a bit closer.
There is a significant issue that arises if we were to revise the FC Reward ladder and that is this: Every updater is different. Some updaters update only once a month (which is perfectly fine) while others pump out content 2-3 times a week. As the rewards currently are, we feel they are as balanced as they can be. If we increase the frequency all it accomplishes is creating a significant imbalance where a small handful of people become vastly richer than the entirety of the rest of the community combined. Personally I feel like we have enough incentives for people who want to update; you can only offer so much until it crosses a threshold of people who aren't becoming updaters because they either don't have the time to do so or they simply just don't want to do so.

One possible solution is this: Rather than revising the FC ladder, maybe we should take a harder look at the Bi-Monthly Rewards, which was set up as an additional incentive system specifically targeted at updating in FB. Do you thing the rewards should be increased/changed here? Maybe add Gummis as an option and lower the qualification threshold from 10 updates in 2 months to maybe like 5 or 7?
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I think what I want to get across here is the difference between meaningful and non-meaningful participation within the context of the issue at-hand, which is exclusively about our need for Zone Updaters. A lot of these shops and events do not contribute to the health of the Zones or Zone Updaters. Yes, they contribute to overall activity on the forum, but it does so in a way that sidesteps the very thing that's supposed to be at the heart of the game: Adventuring and writing.

Frankly put: To me, a lot of it feels like a crutch for the fact that the forum is incredibly slow at all times of the year due to our staff shortage. If people need these systems in order to not feel like we're a graveyard where their Pokemon never get attention, they never feel like they're progressing, then that says something about the state of the game itself and what needs to change in order to improve it, no?

Like, since we're already in the territory of anecdotes, here's mine regarding this issue: I find a lot of these systems overtuned. While I understand that it gives people something to do while they wait, I don't think it's audacious to admit that maybe it's moving things away from updates and adventures. After all, the speed of interaction and general convenience of Discord is basically the reason why I'm barely even on the forum for more than just official business. If the Discord didn't exist I'd be much more inclined to be present here instead.
While I get what you're trying to say in that FB needs to put more of a focus on the core feature which is writing and adventuring, there is a significant note you are overlooking by saying that we need to halt non-essential features in order to incentivize more writing: Just like there are people who don't have the time/motivation to update no matter how many rewards we dangle in front of them, there are just as many if not more people who don't even have time/motivation to reply to their own adventures, but they stick around in the community because of friendships and the at least steady progress they can make from low-effort things like shops until they are ready to write again. By cutting them off from those features, we would essentially be telling them to go away and do nothing until they are ready to write. FB has held together so long because the community has held together strong through the down times, and this is no different.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:57 PM   #15
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I knew going into this that tinkering with staff rewards was a difficult suggestion to accept because of the reasons you mentioned. I understand your point and your reluctance; even if making a minority of players much wealthier is less of an issue for me personally as a "casual" player, I understand your viewpoint as someone who actually runs the game.

I honestly forgor about Bimonthly because it's been ages since I qualified, but now that you bring that up, yes it might be a good alternative. I can maybe attain 5 updates per month realistically and I don't think the overall majority is reaching numbers far above that - I'll be honest and say I don't much care for Gummis or Bond in general so I don't see them as any sort of incentive, but a revision of these rewards and/or lowering the threshold to around 5 would probably help me squeeze in that extra time needed to update. Personally speaking, of course!
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:14 PM   #16
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While I get what you're trying to say in that FB needs to put more of a focus on the core feature which is writing and adventuring, there is a significant note you are overlooking by saying that we need to halt non-essential features in order to incentivize more writing: Just like there are people who don't have the time/motivation to update no matter how many rewards we dangle in front of them, there are just as many if not more people who don't even have time/motivation to reply to their own adventures, but they stick around in the community because of friendships and the at least steady progress they can make from low-effort things like shops until they are ready to write again. By cutting them off from those features, we would essentially be telling them to go away and do nothing until they are ready to write. FB has held together so long because the community has held together strong through the down times, and this is no different.
Fair enough. There's a reason why I noted that this was an extreme opinion, because I knew that re-reading this thread I'd have to remind myself that I shouldn't be defensive in entertaining this solution. This ain't a hill I want to die on, but it did give me an opportunity to touch upon my grievances as both a ZU and a user who is an outsider to the system as a whole. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to explain this in detail.

My point still largely stands that the incentives of idling outweigh going on adventures, which I believe contributes to both some of the stagnation of the Zones and the lack of people really stepping-up to help out. I believe that, if we really want to, or need to, keep things as they are even if the ship starts to sink, then we need a better incentive for adventuring. Make something new, y'know?

Like both you and I have noted, there are users who are motivated by writing for the sake of writing, and there are people who are motivated by rewards. There are even people who are motivated by both.

Unfortunately, there's not really a huge, exclusive incentive for the latter two people. Money is an impersonal resource, and while it is slow, there are sources of it that exist outside of adventuring (trainer birthdays and events being one). IIRC Evolutions are something you can do without being in an adventure, though many users like to use Adventures as an incentive to Evolve a Pokemon they like, along with finding specific Pokemon on their wishlish but due to how long some Adventures can take, I've found that these sorts of goals often get dropped or fulfilled by other avenues long before a ZU's is able to even get close to making them happen.

Occurrences like that where your adventure is suddenly left without a goal because it's already complete or you've changed your mind on if you even want a Pokemon you used to be crazy for because it's just taken so dang long to make progress are incredibly disheartening. I won't lie that it's the main reason why I really can't get any meaningful work done on TKF's CG adventure because I feel like the fact that it was originally an evolution quest for now-evolved Pokemon is holding him back from using those Pokemon in their new forms. I have no sense of direction for that adventure anymore. And If I can't finish one person's adventure, how can I handle other people? How can I best prevent my updatees themselves from getting burnt-out and going elsewhere to get what they initially wanted out of their adventure?

Most items can be obtained just by using the Dept. Store or waiting around for Birthdays, and I'd argue that a lot of their nature as flavor doesn't make them a suitable reward. Moves are handed out in much the same fashion, leaving only really Z-Crystals and Mega Stones. While these are great starting off, resources like this become less and less versatile to ZU's the more one user adventures. Why give them a Waterium Z when they don't have any Pokemon that can use it? Why give someone who doesn't like Camerupt a Cameruptite?

What about Pokemon? An idea I had on my walk to and from the grocery store was to only replenish egg slots and other ways of obtaining additional Pokemon until after someone has completed an adventure. After all, Pokemon are an incentive that anyone would want to have. But I realized that this would only further the divide between power-users and people who can only pop-in occasionally, so, throw that out the window.

What we run into is a monster of a requirement list for a new reward type. It has to be:
  • Only obtainable through adventuring and contributing to Zones.
  • Valuable enough that most users motivated by rewards would want it.
  • Comes in late enough that users can't simply start adventures, get to the reward and then just stop giving a damn.
  • Unnecessary enough that people can patiently work through several months to a year of adventuring to obtain it, and won't push for it to be made obtainable through any means other than adventuring.
  • Versatile enough that ZU's don't feel hamstrung by having to give it out, users will stay excited for the prospect of obtaining it, and are unlikely to change their mind halfway through the adventure.
  • Unique enough to not eliminate, devalue or withhold any of the other reward types that already exist in the game.
  • Not prestigious or powerful enough that power-users are able to outpace new users by being able to get more of it.
  • Still keeps in line with the content that exists in the Pokemon games. (So no UPC's or super ultra custom moves).
  • Also benefits ZU's who are writing updates for other users and encourages others to become ZU's.
  • Lastly, it has to be something that ties back into the theme of writing, creativity and roleplaying, to encourage people to put as much effort as they can into their contributions to the Zone.
In a TTRPG, this list is basically all checked by simply having a player's adventure shape the world in some way. Carving out some history into a world is something that almost everyone appreciates, it's something that ZU's can have a fun time doing, it's something that can only be done through roleplay, it doesn't add any new mechanical content, ect. ect.

But, with Zones supposed to be basically a series of templates for adventures rather than a continuous world, that wouldn't work, and finding an alternative that hits all those boxes is an absolute doozy. I honestly have no idea how to fulfill that, but I think honestly something like the above is what we might need to place emphasis on the core of FB once again. Any thoughts?
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:37 PM   #17
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Your list makes it sound like you're thinking about adventure rewards when that's not the problem end of the spectrum.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
Your list makes it sound like you're thinking about adventure rewards when that's not the problem end of the spectrum.
I explained why it's a particular problem in pretty much all the ramblings I made above. Obviously other stuff is just as important, this isn't the end-all-be-all of fixing the issue but we're allowed to entertain more than one idea at a time here, aren't we? I've also contributed to other avenues of addressing concerns, such as my proposal for ZA-to-undatee discussion pages.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:47 PM   #19
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I'm just posting here to let everyone know: if you need an updator, I'm always available.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:49 PM   #20
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Emi View Post
D) Beginner's Guide to Updating

Do you mean a beginner's guide to story-making? That's basically it.

Every zone is going to have unique aspects that require an updator to think about things differently. Setting and unique challenges will inevitably change your story. Providing a broad guide often isn't feasible, or really doable. Every updator updates in a different style and often has different ideas about what does and doesn't fly. Some updators don't like supernatural phenomenon. But Fizzu Bubbles has a rich history of that. Some people don't like non-Pokemon references. But Fizzy Bubbles has a rich history of that.

It's an incredibly daunting task, to begin with, because it is attempting to codify a very freeform system, but you also can't ignore 10+ years of precedent.
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Originally Posted by Naru View Post
I don't think there needs to be a guide/guidelines to updating. New updators are free to ask for second opinions at any time and have always been allowed to. Not to mention that I think a guideline on "how to update" would just make the process seem daunting (and a lot of users considering opinions posted in the discord and here, already find the whole process daunting). Putting a whole guide out on how to do it/tips on how to do it would only add to that in my opinion.

We want updators to have a sense of freedom, and putting a "this is how updates should be done" or "proper ways to update" out there makes it feel like there's a science of some kind to it... which, if I was a new updator, would seem discouraging if I did not have the same ideas/methods to updating. Everyone does it differently. Myself, Enigma, Shadow, TKF, Raves, Lit, Etc. All have our own ways to updating... almost like a signature of some kind.

However, if there was a real want for this I would, again, prefer for the community to gather their thoughts on what would need to be included and let the moderation team handle it so that it could be included in a proper publication (similar to the members post/beginners guide stuff).
Popping in to say I think posting a brief Beginner's Guide in the sense/format of an FAQ that addresses all these "daunting" concerns would be beneficial. Literally all it needs to include is answers to the common general questions like "how many people will I be required to Update", "what happens if I don't Update frequently", "what kinds of restrictions are there", etc. (Ofc it can also be a place for people to post specific queries for feedback.) Just saying all the anxiety and assumptions are "mostly on you guys" and then expecting people to immediately get over it like that doesn't do anything to actually help solve the matter. I know the mods are all chill and easily approachable, but asking things directly can still be an intimidating process, especially for newbies since there's an inherent power structure there. (Heck, I still feel more comfortable talking to Furi one-on-one simply bc I know him best of the current team.)

The main reason I initially supported the "forum-wide FFAZ" idea was to bypass those worries and spread the notion that Updating isn't as scary as it seems; pretty much anyone can do it. The fact FB's system is so freeform allows for everyone to write and craft an adventure in their own unique style. Just codify that statement into its own separate and quickly accessible sticky thread so it's not bogged down by lots of other text. Maybe add some helpful writing tips if folks find that useful, but make it clear there truly aren't any strict "rules/guidelines" when it comes to creativity.

While I can't really speak for the state of issues with current Updator burnout/reward tiers (as stated the former is kinda unavoidable), we can at least provide a more comprehensive avenue for information and communication going forward to prevent these misunderstandings occurring in the future. With Updators stretched thin as it is, revamping rewards to try and boost motivation isn't really a long-term solution either. We need to target fresh blood and people who may have given a pass to attempting Updating before out of sheer fear/confusion over what it entails. Publicly assuage those wrongful assumptions so as to coax more to "get their foot wet/in the door", so to speak.
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Old 03-02-2020, 10:45 PM   #22
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Alright, let me preface this with something. I have been role playing for a decade now, and have seen multiple RPs die or hit lulls. I've seen FB hit multiple lulls over the past decades and we have always bounced back. Am I saying that what's currently in place is sustainable? No, not really, but the community has always banded together to try and work on things to make improvements, and that is what matters here.

The reason why we have things available outside of zone is because not everyone has the time to write a reply or update, but still want to be able to progress in FB. That's a good thing. Raids have been a good thing for the community. For a genre of game where burnout is a constant, having these other ways to plays is important. Does that devalue the aspect of writing a reply or update? No, not at all. But if you're of the opinion that is makes adventures obsolete, then I hate to say it but this is probably not the game for you at this time.

Shops are entirely optional, and for people who don't want to use them and just do things through adventuring you don't feel like you're missing out anymore. In TessB, you 100% had to do shops or you were going to go nowhere incredibly quickly. I don't personally care for shops but I know why we have them and do agree that they are both a healthy thing and beneficial. It's a choice, and the greatest thing we have here in the current FB is choice. We are allowed to work with updaters and can move our adventures into different directions than what was initially provided if we so choose. We have more freedom in what we want to write in our updates, and often don't have to wait a year just to get one measly update.

So what do we do about the current updating situation? Well, I want to say I full support limiting the current adventures to one zone of choice plus Arcane Realm. Our updaters are already stretched pretty thin, and we need a way to support our current zones before we even think about implementing more. I know some people aren't happy with the current zone selection, and for newcomers they're basically forced to choose between TAC or DG due to CG currently being closed. However, this is the best course of action at the time.

Now, for people who are currently updating I do think allowing them an extra adventure is fitting enough a reward. Is this a little unfair to people who don't update? I don't really see it as that. I more see it that the people who are willing to do one of the most important aspects of the game should get a beneficial reward. It is also probably the best way to give an incentive for people to update, who actually wish to RP. As I've stated multiple times anyone is free to update in the Arcane Realm, and I will say that people who are updating in AR should also be able to benefit from this as well. As much as I didn't want it to become the starting realm again well it kind of has.

I do ask though that if you wish to update in the Arcane Realm and haven't updated in Fizzy Bubbles before, please contact me and work with me for every update of the adventure your currently doing. I say this more so I can help you get into updating and help out with your first adventure to make sure things go as smoothly as possible. If people would like, I'd be happy to write a little guide on how to update as well. And this isn't meant to codify "oh this is the only way you can update." It's more meant to help out on what updating an adventure generally consists of.

As for other things, I do feel like working on bi-monthlies is a great start and I will post my thoughts on the matter in its appropriate thread shortly. But in general this is a problem just born of general burn out, and no matter what we do that will always be a thing. If anything its more improving the systems we have and making things more streamlined when activity picks back up again. We need to make sure that things are able to be spread to easily without a few people carrying the entire RP on their back.
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