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Old 12-20-2007, 05:24 PM   #26
Talon87
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Through Episode 37 right now. I've only got two left (38 and 39), although two more (40 and 41) are on the way because I just saw that they're part of yet another hour-long Naruto Shippuuden airing and the raws just appeared on Tosho. So that's good. Dattebayo should have it out tomorrow, meaning I have four episodes remaining (38-41) before I run out of episodes Friday night. ;_;

This Root saga is so good so far. I'm really enjoying Sai's character, immensely, and I'm also loving Captain Yamato. A friend spoiled for me a while back who he is (actually, he said that Sai was this person, but it's obvious he made a mistake), so the whole "omg Yamato-taichou can use Wood Element jutsu!" made me smile but didn't surprise me, because I was like, "There it is. There's what my friend was talking about." What I don't understand is why he resembles the 2nd so much (he wears the 2nd's facemask, he has the 2nd's hairstyle, and his eyes resemble the 2nd's eyes more than the 1st's). But then again, the 1st and the 2nd were brothers, so whatever.

In fact, because my friend mistook Sai's identity for Yamato's, I'm left completely in the dark as to who Sai is, what his possible motives could be, what assignment Danzou gave him, etc. It seems clear to me that by the time Naruto and the others find Sasuke, they at least trust / work well with Sai, but whether they like him or not, I'm not in any position to make a prediction. (My hope would be "yes, they like each other by that point" but who knows.)

Anyway, no spoilers (for me)! :P Now you know where I am -- smack dab in this Root saga. (What just happened was, Yamato-taichou erected a Japanese house in the middle of the forest for the team to spend the night in, and he's already discussed his plans with them to form the "Buddy System" and to try to pose as Sasori. Pfft, good luck with that. )
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:03 PM   #27
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Yamato is great. So great, in fact, that "Yamato's gonna die" speculation posts would never stop during his appearence.

Sai was hated, actually. Too much like Soujirou Seta from Kenshin for too many folk's tastes, but he's earned my utmost respect for two reasons:

1. He's voiced by Satoshi Hino, a Japanese-American CV.
2. His cool-as-a-cucumber reaction to the yaoi. xD


#2 was probably THE funniest moment in the entire Naruto manga series. I laughed harder during that moment than I ever did in One Piece - sadly, it'll be cut out of the anime (without a doubt).
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:17 PM   #28
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

WARNING: Yeah, I'mma discussing spoilers about Yamato's identity. Don't read if you're watching the anime but not up and up with the manga.

Well, I don't see how Yamato could die, considering he's supposed to be a clone of the you-know-who'th and he seems to be quite powerful at such a young age already. I mean, sure, he can die the same way the previous Hokages have died, i.e. I'm not trying to argue that Yamato's invincible, but ... if he is who my friend told me Sai was, and it seems like there's every reason to believe that my friend was right except he switched the names up, then ... Yamato is pretty much on track for being one of the strongest shinobi in the history of Konoha as a village. Sakura herself said it best: NOBODY has EVER been able to use chakra on the spot so fluidly to generate living matter except for the 1st Hokage, the founder of Konoha, the ultimate ninja of his day. He was like the frigging Lifestream! 2nd, 3rd, 4th, even Naruto+Kyuubi or my hero Jiraiya -- all of you, step aside. The 1st is [strike:2xfj6c8k]back[/strike:2xfj6c8k] in town. ;)

Sai, unpopular? Really? I question that. Maybe amongst your typical "Narutard" he was unpopular, but I can only see the average Japanese Shonen Jump fan orgasming over him -- more than I currently am, even. I mean, he's just so funny. I don't think you appreciate just how hysterically caustic his behavior would be in Japanese society. He makes a lot of poignant comments about Japanese linguistics and social behavior (e.g. his condescension towards Sakura and Naruto's Japanese usage of aizuchi and other fake-isms) that I think a Japanese reader/viewer would laughingly absorb and nod his head along with. I know I am. Sai is ... well, he reminds me of me, I guess, minus the fact that he's right deadly and I'm not. He's brutally honest with people -- and while he regrets that he can't be a bit more tactful, he also (clearly) takes pride in the fact that he's not as deceiving to others as they are to him. He showed genuine anger + hurt at Sakura's fake smile towards him -- this is something I and other "emotionally blunt" people can relate to. And like I said, on the other end of the spectrum (like, complete 180º), the very employers of fake smiles -- the Japanese nation as a whole -- are probably really fascinated by the cultural criticisms the author of Naruto is voicing via Sai.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:14 PM   #29
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Well, I don't see how Yamato could die, considering he's supposed to be a clone of the you-know-who'th and he seems to be quite powerful at such a young age already. I mean, sure, he can die the same way the previous Hokages have died, i.e. I'm not trying to argue that Yamato's invincible, but ... if he is who my friend told me Sai was, and it seems like there's every reason to believe that my friend was right except he switched the names up, then ... Yamato is pretty much on track for being one of the strongest shinobi in the history of Konoha as a village. Sakura herself said it best: NOBODY has EVER been able to use chakra on the spot so fluidly to generate living matter except for the 1st Hokage, the founder of Konoha, the ultimate ninja of his day. He was like the frigging Lifestream! 2nd, 3rd, 4th, even Naruto+Kyuubi or my hero Jiraiya -- all of you, step aside. The 1st is [strike:147fm23q]back[/strike:147fm23q] in town. ;)
Think about who he's up against - Orochimaru, Kabuto, and potentially Sasuke on steroids (not sure about Sasuke, forgot if he appears here or not). If the former two team up, they could kill him pretty easily - remember, he's not the First, he's a demi-clone of the First and isn't as powerful. Oro and Kabuto stood against Naruto, Jiraiya, and Tsunade in the three-way Sannin battle - as unbelievable as the First may have been, could Yamato stand up against a murderous team like that (especially since Oro was powerful enough to ressurect both the First and Second Hokage)?

This raises the question, "but what about Naruto or Sakura"? I can't say much, but Naruto blames Orochimaru for "seducing" Sasuke, so imagine what would happen if Naruto and Oro met face to face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Sai, unpopular? Really? I question that. Maybe amongst your typical "Narutard" he was unpopular, but I can only see the average Japanese Shonen Jump fan orgasming over him -- more than I currently am, even. I mean, he's just so funny. I don't think you or the people you've hung out with (and formulated this opinion around, that Sai was unpopular) appreciate just how hysterically caustic his behavior would be in Japanese society. He makes a lot of poignant comments about Japanese linguistics and social behavior (e.g. his condescension towards Sakura and Naruto's Japanese usage of aizuchi and other fake-isms) that I think a Japanese reader/viewer would laughingly absorb and nod his head along with. I know I am. Sai is ... well, he reminds me of me, I guess, minus the fact that he's right deadly and I'm not. He's brutally honest with people -- and while he regrets that he can't be a bit more tactful, he also (clearly) takes pride in the fact that he's not as deceiving to others as they are to him. He showed genuine anger + hurt at Sakura's fake smile towards him -- this is something I and other "emotionally blunt" people can relate to. And like I said, on the other end of the spectrum (like, complete 180º), the very employers of fake smiles -- the Japanese nation as a whole -- are probably really fascinated by the cultural criticisms the author of Naruto is voicing via Sai.
Over 9,000 posts worth of searching later, the Frenchman probably summarizes the Sai issues best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrich
Sai's cockblocking was funny indeed, I don't get the hate for this character, sure he's probably been created to pander to moronic Sasuke fangirls, talks too much about penises for his own good and his change of character was incredibly poorly done, (yeah I reckon that's a lot against him) but he's damn funny.

I liked him as soon as he said exactly what I thought about Sasuke before getting the shit punched out of him by forehead. Him and Yamato are cool new characters.
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Anyway, I think I've been rude (by pigeonholing you and your colleagues when I don't know how much you guys care about or know about Japanese psychology and behavior), so I'll shut up and give you a chance to reply before I say anything else. I just ... I just have a hard time accepting your testimony that "Sai was unpopular." Unpopular in America? That, I could see. I can see the Narutards hating him. To them, he's probably a "boring," "been there done that" robot of a character. They're completely missing the boat, though, and that's why I think that in Japan, Sai had to have been awesomely popular. Please! Correct me if I'm wrong. (not being sarcastic or "challengey," I'm just saying, if it's no trouble and you have the source[s] on hand, show me where the Japanese readers have voiced their discontent with Sai)
See Al's quote above.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:39 PM   #30
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

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"A Frenchman does not a Nipponjin make."

Plus, that guy liked Sai. >_> Sure, he explained why he thinks others did not, but ... am I supposed to psychically read your mind and know that all 9000 posts were hate posts? Because otherwise I don't see any indication as to the "proof" that the Japanese hated him. Like I said, I don't doubt that the Narutards you talk with hated him, but (English-speaking) Narutards don't count for shit in my book. I don't mean to sound like a cultural elitist, but this really is one of those cases where "If you're not familiar with Japanese psychology then your opinion doesn't count for shit." (by 'you' in "your opinion", I mean these people you're citing) Sai's entire character is very much so a Japanese inside joke. You're either inside and get the joke or outside and don't. Considering how outside the average Narutard is, I'm not surprised if you tell me that the average Narutard fails to get the joke.

Oh well. Arguing over Sai is pointless since we're just going to go back and forth with you saying I need to catch up in the manga and me saying you need to make friends with more people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to Japan and aren't a bunch of 17-year old 4chan weeaboos spouting nonsense. (Am I supposed to be in awe of the name "Aldrich"? If so ... I don't even know who that is.)

So ... to Yamato!

Doppel, defending Orochimaru's power? :P I thought I'd never see the day ... 24 hours ago. :P Didn't you just deny me my claim that Orochimaru is powerful enough that he's not merely "ignorable scum" to Akatsuki? And now here you go, doubling back on your words and saying, "Oh, no Talon! I never said that! In fact, if you think about it, Orochimaru held his own against Jiraiya and Tsunade!" Yeah. Way to reiterate what I got tired of saying at you yesterday. >_> What the hell's going on, Doppel. Are we having a legitimate discussion here or are you just trying to win every possibly contentious point I raise? First you say "Orochimaru's a joke," then you say Yamato's an amazing badass, now you say "pfft, Yamato may be cool, but he'd easily get destroyed by Oro." What. The. Fuck. How can you say that to me with a straight face when:
a) we established yesterday that you think (not me! you!) that Orochimaru is weaker than the weakest member of Akatsuki, and
b) Sakura (a Chuunin!), working with an old granny, proved capable of defeating Sasori. Not even Naruto in Kyuubi form. Not even Kakashi. Haruno Sakura.

If you expect me to believe that A and B are both true (and B isn't up for debate -- it's a canonical fact!!!), then you expect me to believe that you'd have no trouble believing that Yamato would wipe the floor with Orochimaru. Because clearly Yamato trumps Haruno Sakura, else he would not be her squad leader. Heck, he has to trump Sai, otherwise Sai would just dispose of all three of them and fulfill his mission for Danzou. Yet all of this is precisely the opposite of what you've just said here! >_<

Dammit. At least I'm consistent in that I agree (with myself, if also with you half the evenings here) that Orochimaru is damn powerful. Like I said, I acknowledge that Yamato could die -- I specifically specified that in the last post. -_-; So there's no need for you to say, "But Talon! :P Don't forget how strong Orochimaru is! He could probably kill Yamato!" Yeah. I know how strong Orochimaru is. I'm the one who tried to tell you yesterday just how strong I thought he was, remember? I'm the one who pointed out, repeatedly, that he was stronger than a Hokage. So yes, I agree he could overpower Yamato. That doesn't mean I think Yamato has to die. (Just like Naruto did not die despite being weaker than Kabuto or Orochimaru, either of whom had a chance to kill him in Season 5.) And all day yesterday, you said, "No, no, no, Oro's not that big a deal"; and now you come in here and say, "Well, actually, let me tell you why you were right, as if you were wrong and as if I was the one who had the idea all along." ............................ I feel like screaming his name right now and pretending it's yours. :P I am so fucking frustrated. @_@

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Waldo Emerson
Speak what you think to-day in words as hard as cannon balls, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict everything you said to-day.
I know you may be taking a page out of Emerson's book, Doppel, but ... >_<
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:26 PM   #31
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Plus, that guy liked Sai. >_> Sure, he explained why he thinks others did not, but ... am I supposed to psychically read your mind and know that all 9000 posts were hate posts? Because otherwise I don't see any indication as to the "proof" that the Japanese hated him. Like I said, I don't doubt that the Narutards you talk with hated him, but (English-speaking) Narutards don't count for shit in my book. I don't mean to sound like a cultural elitist, but this really is one of those cases where "If you're not familiar with Japanese psychology then your opinion doesn't count for shit." (by 'you' in "your opinion", I mean these people you're citing) Sai's entire character is very much so a Japanese inside joke. You're either inside and get the joke or outside and don't. Considering how outside the average Narutard is, I'm not surprised if you tell me that the average Narutard fails to get the joke.
Aldrich's observation was a pretty good summary of why English-language readers hate Sai. That, and, "he's useless". Also, I wasn't quoting Narutards, but casual readers who follow Naruto on the side of their own flagship series OP. I'm fairly familiar with the AP forum members, so I know who is heavily biased in favour of one manga and who is neutral, and frankly, the views on Sai were pretty uniform.

I wouldn't know how the Japanese view him, you're the first person to bring up how refreshing he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Oh well. Arguing over Sai is pointless since we're just going to go back and forth with you saying I need to catch up in the manga and me saying you need to make friends with more people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to Japan and aren't a bunch of 17-year old 4chan weeaboos spouting nonsense. (Am I supposed to be in awe of the name "Aldrich"? If so ... I don't even know who that is.)
With 99.9% of the Naruto fandom within my reach being English-speaking fans, you're asking of me nothing short of the impossible since I don't have any connections in the Naruto webrings, nor do I know any Japanese fans who actually post on ELC forums.

The only bit of information I can give you is Sai's design and personality are popular with young female Japanese fans, almost certainly in my view for the yaoi-related material. I know nothing of his humour quirks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Doppel, defending Orochimaru's power? :P I thought I'd never see the day ... 24 hours ago. :P Didn't you just deny me my claim that Orochimaru is powerful enough that he's not merely "ignorable scum" to Akatsuki? And now here you go, doubling back on your words and saying, "Oh, no Talon! I never said that! In fact, if you think about it, Orochimaru held his own against Jiraiya and Tsunade!" Yeah. Way to reiterate what I got tired of saying at you yesterday. >_> What the hell's going on, Doppel. Are we having a legitimate discussion here or are you just trying to win every possibly contentious point I raise? First you say "Orochimaru's a joke," then you say Yamato's an amazing badass, now you say "pfft, Yamato may be cool, but he'd easily get destroyed by Oro." What. The. Fuck. How can you say that to me with a straight face when:
a) we established yesterday that you think (not me! you!) that Orochimaru is weaker than the weakest member of Akatsuki, and
b) Sakura (a Chuunin!), working with an old granny, proved capable of defeating Sasori. Not even Naruto in Kyuubi form. Not even Kakashi. Haruno Sakura.

If you expect me to believe that A and B are both true (and B isn't up for debate -- it's a canonical fact!!!), then you expect me to believe that you'd have no trouble believing that Yamato would wipe the floor with Orochimaru. Because clearly Yamato trumps Haruno Sakura, else he would not be her squad leader. Heck, he has to trump Sai, otherwise Sai would just dispose of all three of them and fulfill his mission for Danzou. Yet all of this is precisely the opposite of what you've just said here! >_<

Dammit. At least I'm consistent in that I agree (with myself, if also with you half the evenings here) that Orochimaru is damn powerful. Like I said, I acknowledge that Yamato could die -- I specifically specified that in the last post. -_-; So there's no need for you to say, "But Talon! :P Don't forget how strong Orochimaru is! He could probably kill Yamato!" Yeah. I know how strong Orochimaru is. I'm the one who tried to tell you yesterday just how strong I thought he was, remember? I'm the one who pointed out, repeatedly, that he was stronger than a Hokage. So yes, I agree he could overpower Yamato. That doesn't mean I think Yamato has to die. (Just like Naruto did not die despite being weaker than Kabuto or Orochimaru, either of whom had a chance to kill him in Season 5.) And all day yesterday, you said, "No, no, no, Oro's not that big a deal"; and now you come in here and say, "Well, actually, let me tell you why you were right, as if you were wrong and as if I was the one who had the idea all along." ............................ I feel like screaming his name right now and pretending it's yours. :P I am so fucking frustrated. @_@
It's really tough to address this stuff without spoilers, so I'll have to be vague again.

1. Sasori went easy on Sakura and Grandma during their fight. He didn't fight them at what at "full power" in the shounen sense of the word.
2. Orochimaru, while still weaker than the Akatsuki members, is more than a match for Yamato alone. Yamato + Sai + Naruto + Sakura, uncertain (even with Kabuto on his side).
3. People thought Yamato would die not because of Orochimaru, but because of something else.
4. Sakura isn't very powerful.
5. Tsunade isn't very powerful and is by far the weakest of the Sannin.
6. Jiraiya is the most powerful of the Sannin by a huge margin. Oro only rivals him with his prolific mastery of diverse, forbidden techniques, his near immortality and "elemental weakness" alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
I know you may be taking a page out of Emerson's book, Doppel, but ... >_<
It's tough to say stuff because:

1. I don't read Naruto, this is mostly my understanding of hearsay. In spite of this, it's decently accurate.
2. You don't read Negima!, so I can't draw comparisons that would make sense without spoiling stuff.
3. Kishimoto's flippancy for continuity as far as power goes is outrageous. Kakashi used to be a "high level jounin", now he's some sort of super-soldier and merely wasn't showing his true potential in the past (what an insult to Zabuza - OH WAIT, Zabuza didn't use his full power either, my bad).
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:45 PM   #32
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

I just finished Episode 41. It aired December 20 in Japan, right? Well guess what -- the sneak peek for next week's episode revealed that it won't be airing next week, nor even the week after that -- it comes out on January 10, three weeks from now.

I suppose this is a blessing in disguise when you think about it. The inability to see Naruto for three weeks whether I want things to be this way or not will facilitate my putting Naruto on hiatus until May. And by that time, hopefully they will have aired at least 16 episodes (4 episodes per 28-day month x 4 months). 16 episodes should be more than enough to bring this Root saga to a close.

Doppel-benchmark: In Episode 41, Naruto's 4th tail has fully come out, his skin has melted off, his eyes are solid red, etc. Yamato's wood clone witnessed this, Orochimaru is thrilled, Kabuto is still on the other side of the ravine, and so are Sakura and the real Yamato. Sai was blown back towards the bridge when his ink falcon was destroyed by the Kyuubi's most recent blast. He's already betrayed the group (knownst to us and possibly to Yamato because he ignored Sakura as she was falling into the ravine right beside him), but he hasn't really been able to take action yet.
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:27 PM   #33
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Four-Tailed is the "reason people though Yamato would be killed" I mentioned earlier. Berserked as is, Naruto is far more dangerous (and powerful) than Orochimaru, and is exceptionally murderous as well. Sounds like Sakura has been incapacitated already, so it's basically everyone versus the Four-Tailed Fox.
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:33 PM   #34
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

So...I've been getting into Shippuuden lately (been following the episodes over at http://www.narutoget.com/)

I've also missed a good majority of the Naruto episodes after the arc where they help that kid win the race. Believe it or not, I haven't even seen all of the Sasuke v Naruto episodes, only about one and a half. I feel a bit deprived. I don't like reading japanese stuff (I don't mind watching the eps), so I really don't read the japanese manga. I read Shonen Jump (which, apparently, this month skipped the last five novels or so and went straight to Shippudden in the US), and my subscription ran out two months ago, and I really don't have the money to go buy all of the last few novels they released in a two month time span -_-'

So yeah. I'm trying to catch up as much as I can ;_;
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:43 PM   #35
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

I don't see why you don't just download them from Dattebayo. Unless you mean you watch the older Naruto episodes on that site.
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #36
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

See, I'm not as knowledgeable about this stuff as you guys are (I wouldn't mind), so I don't even know what that is. And what's the newest Shippuuden?
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:05 PM   #37
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Watching 36-37 right now---

Sai: Ah, so you do have one after all.
Naruto: STOP TALKING ABOUT DICKS!!
Sakura: O_O;;

Man oh man, can't wait to see what the dub does with THAT! XD
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:10 PM   #38
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

The newest is 41. Chances are, the episodes you're getting via MegaUpload are actually Dattebayo's subs.

h t t p : / / w w w . d a t t e b a y o . c o m / t /

As you can see, you can easily gain access to all of the (awesome) episodes in which Naruto and Sasuke fight. These are (primarily) episodes 132-134, although you'll probably want to watch the two episodes that precede these (130 and 131) because, even though it's mostly Sasuke having flashbacks, the fight technically begins there.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:22 PM   #39
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Yeah, I saw 130 and 131. And 41 is up on NarutoGet as well, but I last left off at 35, so I'm watching 36-37 right now. I'll most likely finish the rest off later tonight.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:54 AM   #40
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

I've been keeping up with Naruto Shippuuden. I like it okay, but still hate the fact that the other Konoha kids are rare to see. I know Shikamaru and some of the others play a role later on, but it would still be nice to have some filler eps (or side story eps) on some of them every once in a while. We don't have to focus on Naruto every week, even though, with where it is now, one can't help it.

I'm looking forward to the next episode, although, in my opinion, the previous episode should've been a normal lengthened one, and the upcoming one (January 10) should have been an hour long special since Sasuke's supposed to in it.
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Old 12-25-2007, 07:47 AM   #41
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

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Originally Posted by SSJ_Jupiter81
since Sasuke's supposed to in it.
I don't read the manga, but I don't think this is accurate. I don't think we're going to see Sasuke until (as shown in the first episode's teaser introduction) Naruto, Sakura, and Sai successfully infiltrate Orochimaru's base. I think the next episode(s) is just going to focus on two things:
a) Orochimaru fighting 4-tailed Naruto, and
b) Yamato trying to return Naruto to his normal form

I mean, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but ... I don't think you'll be seeing Sasuke until the end of January, perhaps (knowing how this series loves to protract things) February.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:41 PM   #42
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

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Originally Posted by SSJ_Jupiter81
I've been keeping up with Naruto Shippuuden. I like it okay, but still hate the fact that the other Konoha kids are rare to see. I know Shikamaru and some of the others play a role later on, but it would still be nice to have some filler eps (or side story eps) on some of them every once in a while. We don't have to focus on Naruto every week, even though, with where it is now, one can't help it.
(paraphrase)

Kishimoto: "In this next year, I'd like to devote more manga time to Sasuke".

....

Up until this point, Sasuke has been seen so frequently he's virtually the main character. This pretty much cements the change of focus, since nobody seems to care about Naruto himself anymore - not just that, but the story seems to have modulated a lot in a direction I don't like.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:57 PM   #43
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Are you referring to the anime (Naruto Shippuuden) or to the manga (Naruto 2)? Let's keep the discussion clear to avoid confusion. Sasuke has been a far cry from common in the anime up through Episode 41, and certainly not the main character. One can only assume you're talking about the manga, and even then, I have to say I'm surprised to hear such words. Sasuke, more onscreen than Naruto? To the point that you'd say he's usurped the story? For longer than two volumes' worth of chapters? That's nuts. I mean, I believe you, I guess, but that's nuts, so I guess I also can't believe you till I see it with my own eyes.
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Old 12-25-2007, 04:40 PM   #44
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Manga.

Much like how the Uchiha Clan expanded from "more than qualified policemen of Konoha with hints as to a dark history connected to their abilities in the ninja wars" to "walking Mordor", Sasuke's role has been greatly fleshed as well, at the sacrifice of other characters and plot-lines. Even the great Kyuubi, the most powerful animal spirit in the entire series and a (seemingly) malevolent force of destruction, has been debased from his position as "the ultimate one". I can't go into specifics, but certain events related to Uchiha and the Sharingan have made the Kyuubi far less impressive than it once was, which (in my view) was the first straw toward a change of focus.

Sasuke's more popular in Japan than Naruto anyway, so I guess Kishimoto's just giving the fans what they want. Sounds like Code Geass. -_-
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Old 12-25-2007, 04:50 PM   #45
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Well, I sort of figured Sasuke was more powerful than the Kyuubi from the first scene in Episode 1 of Shippuuden, where they show him invading Naruto's mind and dispelling the Kyuubi back behind the prison bars when Naruto is attempting to allow the Kyuubi to use his body for combat again.

That stated, I think you're being a bit forgetful / a bit wrongly accusative of Kishimoto changing the roots of the story if you think "the Kyuubi was and should always have been the most unstoppable force in the Naruto universe." Dude. How can you justify that claim when the 4th Hokage (who isn't even said to have been the most gifted Hokage in Konaha history necessarily!) was able to defeat it? Sure, at the cost of his own life, but the point is, he defeated it.

"Still, it sucks that an Uchiha can defeat it without dying. "

To which I'd say, "Dude, that hope [that you can't seal the Kyuubi without sacrificing your own life] was dashed the moment you learned that the 1st Hokage was able to treat bijuu like pets. :P " Not saying that that plot revelation pleased me much either, but I'm just saying, the Uchiha clan is by no means "the only ones who kick major bijuu ass." The 1st Hokage is proof enough of that.

Just to clarify, I 100% agree that pussification of the Kyuubi sucks. In any way, shape, or form. I'm just reminding you that (a) the Kyuubi, from Day 1, has never been shown to be an unstoppable beast, and (b) the pussification of the Kyuubi extends far behind the Uchiha clan.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:49 PM   #46
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Well, I sort of figured Sasuke was more powerful than the Kyuubi from the first scene in Episode 1 of Shippuuden, where they show him invading Naruto's mind and dispelling the Kyuubi back behind the prison bars when Naruto is attempting to allow the Kyuubi to use his body for combat again.
Oh? That scene was animated? Yes, it's something along those lines, but that "incident" was greatly expanded on.

It's not that Sasuke or any Uchiha is more powerful than the Kyuubi, it's that they (conveniently) have all the right weapons to use against it. A case of David v. Goliath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
That stated, I think you're being a bit forgetful / a bit wrongly accusative of Kishimoto changing the roots of the story if you think "the Kyuubi was and should always have been the most unstoppable force in the Naruto universe." Dude. How can you justify that claim when the 4th Hokage (who isn't even said to have been the most gifted Hokage in Konaha history necessarily!) was able to defeat it? Sure, at the cost of his own life, but the point is, he defeated it.
There's been a change in focus.

Kyuubi is a powerful animal spirit incarnate, a force of nature, and while ninjas can manipulate nature to an extent by molding their chakra into techniques, they're living in harmony with nature, not conquering it for the relief of man's estate. "Man v. Nature: Heaven of Heck?" wasn't an original theme of Naruto, the primary onoes were coming-of-age, loneliness, cruelty, friendship and such.

While the Fourth was able to contain the Kyuubi, I never saw that as a "true" defeat since the Kyuubi wasn't dead, which firmly established, in my mind at least, that no matter how "devious" the villains in Naruto got (even Oro), they still had rationale and desires for taking their course of action that would be "understandable" to fellow humans, while the Kyuubi, a monster, would always radiate some kind of inherent malice humans lack.

My preferred comparison is a dragon; the Kyuubi isn't strictly an animal, since animals lack morals and operate on instinct or, in the context of a story like this, what folklore dictates. The Kyuubi is intelligent enough to understand human values and yet is particularly malicious and destructive, without an explanation - we're left to either assume this malice is instinctive (making the Kyuubi an animalistic monster), or a preference (making the Kyuubi a human monster). Either way, it's still a monster, while the worst the villains in the story can go is "monster-like".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
To which I'd say, "Dude, that hope [that you can't seal the Kyuubi without sacrificing your own life] was dashed the moment you learned that the 1st Hokage was able to treat bijuu like pets. :P " Not saying that that plot revelation pleased me much either, but I'm just saying, the Uchiha clan is by no means "the only ones who kick major bijuu ass." The 1st Hokage is proof enough of that.
In my mind, the design of the First's abilities differ from the Uchiha; rather than manipulate nature, he's nature itself, so it's more acceptable for one natural force to topple another. It's sort of like the First was nature's puppet instead of nature being his puppet.

Even then, though, it's the First Hokage, one of the most powerful ninjas ever. Having Sasuke beat down the Kyuubi steals thunder from the First.

...

All this talk of Hokage made me decide to re-watch the Third's battle against Orochimaru, and holy shoot that was amazing.
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:53 PM   #47
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

I'm still trying to figure out what Sai's "real mission" is. Has this already been discussed? I'm far too lazy to look it up...something tells me that he has connections to the Akatsuki. Not quite sure though.
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:55 PM   #48
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Sai's mission was discussed in the manga.
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Old 12-25-2007, 11:06 PM   #49
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Except I don't read the manga -_-;
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Old 12-25-2007, 11:16 PM   #50
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Re: Naruto Shippuuden

Sorry, double post, but I just saw that Ch. 383 is the final Naruto---is this right?!
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