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Old 01-23-2014, 09:07 PM   #1
Talon87
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Uluru, Ayers Rock, and Mountain Names

So, I was just linked to this article in a discussion about the old "A dingo ate my baby!" joke and I couldn't help but notice:
Quote:
on a family camping trip to Uluru (at that date known as Ayers Rock)
Now first off, I've never even heard the name "Uluru" before. But there's always a first time for everything, so that's not a particularly big issue. I'm just saying that this is my first time encountering that name.

Second, it's the "at that date known as" bit that really gets me. They make it sound like Ayers Rock hasn't been called "Ayers Rock" in years. YEAAAAAAAAARS. And that's just wild to me. 'Cause again, like I say, I have never heard anyone call Ayers Rock anything but Ayers Rock. So when did I miss the boat to Uluru Island? When did calling it Uluru become the hip thing for non-Aboriginals to do? We all switched over from calling it "Bombay" to calling it "Mumbai" at some nondescript point in the early 2000s. We all switched over from calling it "Peking" to calling it "Beijing" somewhere in the late 20th century. But when did the Uluru movement begin?

Third, I've noticed this trend with a lot of mountains. English-speaking explorers named a great many mountains -- Mt. Everest, Mt. McKinley, Mt. Cook -- that already had names they were called by the local people. And in recent years, there's been a trend to call mountains by these native names. I think I've heard the name "Denali" twice as many times as I've heard Mt. McKinley. I see that New Zealanders have got the name "Aoraki" for Mt. Cook. And even Mt. Everest, the world's most famous mountain, has people pushing for us to call it something new ... although what exactly we ought to call it seems to be a matter of debate. (See: Mt. Everest's naming.) It would seem to me that that's what has happened here with Uluru: sure enough, the "Name" section on its Wikipedia article details that the dual name policy was formalized in 1993 and that it was not until 2002 that the Aboriginal name prefaced the English name.

So anyway, time for questions:
  1. Have you ever heard of Uluru by name before? Ayers Rock by name before?
  2. Are you Australian?
  3. Which name(s) do you use? If more than one, do you use them interchangeably or do the circumstances dictate when you use one over the other?
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:43 PM   #2
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Have you ever heard of Uluru by name before? Ayers Rock by name before?
Yeah, I have heard both Uluru and Ayers Rock. When I was younger I heard both Ayers Rock and Uluru, mostly Uluru, but nowadays I only ever hear people refer to it as Uluru.

Are you Australian?
Yes I am!

Which name(s) do you use? If more than one, do you use them interchangeably or do the circumstances dictate when you use one over the other?

Normally I just use Uluru. Though I would use Ayer's Rock if I was talking to someone in another country, because I would imagine that it would be the more commonly known international name.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:46 PM   #3
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> Uluru

Wut
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:37 PM   #4
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Why are you people speaking in tongues.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:58 PM   #5
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Have you ever heard of Uluru by name before? Ayers Rock by name before?
Yup. Heard both. Learned them right around the same time (6-7th grade).

Are you Australian?
Last I checked I wasn't.

Which name(s) do you use? If more than one, do you use them interchangeably or do the circumstances dictate when you use one over the other?
On the off chance that I do happen to be talkibg about it I tend to say Uluru. Mostly because "Ayer's" always looked weird to me and hit my ear wrong. As for the second part, I've only talked about it once and the other person knew both names so I could use either. I guess I would probably say Ayer's Rock for people I figure wouldn't know "Uluru" and reserve Uluru for Australians. I guess.

>inb4 only freak who knows "Uluru" but isn't Australian
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:24 PM   #6
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Uluru is what it's called in Civ, so that's how I know it.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:57 AM   #7
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Uluru is the name of the mountain/rock/outcropping and it's a sacred site for Australian Aboriginals. Ayers Rock is whatever the colonists call it.

It's Uluru.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Uluru is the name of the mountain/rock/outcropping and it's a sacred site for Australian Aboriginals. Ayers Rock is whatever the colonists call it.

It's Uluru.
Well said.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Uluru is the name of the mountain/rock/outcropping and it's a sacred site for Australian Aboriginals. Ayers Rock is whatever the colonists call it.

It's Uluru.
Things in being called different things in different languages and by different peoples shocker! It doesn't have a name; it's not a fundamental part of its mountainness, it's called whatever people choose to call it and hey, different people have called it different things.

In answer to Talon's questions, never heard of the name Uluru before in much the same way I'd never heard of Espana to refer to Spain until I started learning Spanish. I am not Australian.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:14 AM   #10
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Things in being called different things in different languages and by different peoples shocker!

Never heard of the name Uluru before, in much the same way I'd never heard of Espana to refer to Spain until I started learning Spanish.
Except that's really not the case anymore. Ayers Rock is the name that the Brits gave it when they tripped over it, but Uluru is the name that it was given first and is now in the most common legal and popular usage within Australia. English-speakers in Australia call it Uluru.

It's Uluru.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:19 AM   #11
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>now in the most common legal and popular usage within Australia. English-speakers in Australia call it Uluru.

Good for them? The only purpose of language/naming is to communicate information; I can get across the information "I am referring to that particular outcroppy/mountainy thing" just as well (I'd argue better, outside of Aus) by referring to it Ayer's Rock as one could by referring to it as Uluru. Also "what it was called first" is entirely irrelevant, tradition has never been a valid reason for doing anything.

What we call it is irrelevant as long as it gets across that we mean that particular mountain. Where I am Ayer's Rock does that better than Uluru. If I happened to be talking to someone who exclusively/almost exclusively knew it as Uluru, I'd happily switch to that for the length of the conversation. Armed the the new information that it's typically known as Uluru in Australia, if I ever end up in Oz I will refer to it as such.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Things in being called different things in different languages and by different peoples shocker! It doesn't have a name; it's not a fundamental part of its mountainness, it's called whatever people choose to call it and hey, different people have called it different things.
I agree. This is the post I would upvote.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
>now in the most common legal and popular usage within Australia. English-speakers in Australia call it Uluru.

Good for them? The only purpose of language/naming is to communicate information; I can get across the information "I am referring to that particular outcroppy/mountainy thing" just as well (I'd argue better, outside of Aus) by referring to it Ayer's Rock as one could by referring to it as Uluru. Also "what it was called first" is entirely irrelevant, tradition has never been a valid reason for doing anything.

What we call it is irrelevant as long as it gets across that we mean that particular mountain. Where I am Ayer's Rock does that better than Uluru. If I happened to be talking to someone who exclusively/almost exclusively knew it as Uluru, I'd happily switch to that for the length of the conversation.
Yes, and you can also help to respect the wishes of the natives who treat Uluru as a sacred spot by helping to spread the knowledge that it uses the name Uluru. It's not a sin to call it Ayers Rock but it was changed back to Uluru out of respect for the Aboriginal culture (and also because a group of Aboriginals now owns the land it's on). For native Aboriginals, it does have a name and it is part of its mountainness. The Australian Government has been working to restore this for a reason, not just because it sounds cool. For all intents and purposes, Ayers Rock is a historic name. Calling it Ayers Rock is like using Bombay or Peking - it refers to the same thing and it's not technically wrong, but it's dated and reflects a Western ignorance, even if you might not be guilty of it.


Even if you want to call it Ayers Rock or not, it's still Uluru.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:29 AM   #14
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Yeah but the wishes of the natives don't matter one jot more or less than anyone elses wishes. Do I care if they call it Uluru? No, they're free to. I don't mind if in the next five years people worldwide switch over; if it becomes the common thing where I live I'll switch too for ease of communication. I'm not wedded to calling it Ayer's Rock. I do it because it's what I'm used to and because it's what most people I know are likely to know it as. But the natives opinion on what this mountain is called is just as irrelevant as anyone elses.

It's been changed back out of white guilt over things done by people who're long since dead to people who're long since dead. Guilt over things done by people who aren't us to people who haven't aren't them is a stupid reason to do anything.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:27 AM   #15
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Pick whatever name is coolest.

If one's birth name was "Equine Ducklings" I would not look down on said person if a name change occurred.
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