UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > The Misc

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2013, 01:12 PM   #26
Tyranidos
beebooboobopbooboobop
 
Tyranidos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Krusty Krab
Posts: 3,800
Send a message via AIM to Tyranidos Send a message via MSN to Tyranidos
It'll only be a debate when people have opposing viewpoints. The only issue here with any potential disagreement (that I see, at least) is what the response should be to a North Korean attack.
__________________
Tyranidos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 01:59 PM   #27
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
the resulting fallout and its effect of Japan and SK
A friend showed me this helpful applet the other day. He's a bit of a nuclear physics buff -- the chemistry, the history, all of it -- and I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that the effects of radiation from a bomb like the ones dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki would be marginal in their geographic scope. As you can see from that site by selecting Hiroshima for the city and Little Boy for the bomb, the radiation radius of the bomb is "only' 0.88 miles. So the area carved out by the circle, let's say, is roughly 1.5 to 2.0 miles wide. That's enough to take out a small city's population, sure, but it's not really going to be doing much as far as neighboring counties or provinces go, much less neighboring nations.

As for radioactive fallout, that depends on the how and where the bomb is detonated. Suffice to say, if the U.S. were the ones doing the detonating, they would probably try to ensure that there was as little fallout as possible: the aim would be physical destruction from the fireball and ensuing shockwave, not biological destruction from radiation poisoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia's article on Little Boy
Local fallout is dust and ash from a bomb crater, contaminated with radioactive fission products. It falls to earth downwind of the crater and can produce, with radiation alone, a lethal area much larger than that from blast and fire. With an air burst, the fission products rise into the stratosphere, where they dissipate and become part of the global environment. Because Little Boy was an air burst 1,900 feet (580 m) above the ground, there was no bomb crater and no local radioactive fallout.[33]

Intense neutron and gamma radiation came directly from the fireball. Most people close enough to receive lethal doses of direct radiation died in the firestorm before their radiation injuries would have become apparent. Survivors on the edge of the lethal area and beyond suffered injuries from radiation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Source #33
Glasstone and Dolan, The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, p. 409. "An air burst, by definition, is one taking place at such a height above the earth that no appreciable quantities of surface material are taken up into the fireball. . . the deposition of early fallout from an air burst will generally not be significant. An air burst, however, may produce some induced radioactive contamination in the general vicinity of ground zero as a result of neutron capture by elements in the soil." From p. 36, "at Hiroshima . . . injuries due to fallout were completely absent."
A nuclear bomb and a nuclear reactor meltdown are two very different things, of course. And one of the key differences is in how much fallout they create. Obviously if this were the stereotypical science-fiction WW3 nuclear holocaust we would acknowledge that the atmosphere merely "sucking up the nuclear isotopes from the bomb" wouldn't be good enough as with enough bombs one could expect to saturate the atmosphere with radioactively decaying elements and induce planet-wide radiation poisoning or some such. But in the case of a few tactical nuclear strikes, the literature would seem to suggest that the radiation effects felt outside of the city hit by the bomb would be negligible.

The other factor to keep in mind is, Hiroshima was a 15-kiloton detonation. Compare this against the recent meteor that struck Russia. Also compare the similar causes of death and destruction in both cases. Perhaps the single greatest cause of death from the Hiroshima bomb wasn't radiation: it was the shockwave toppling houses like matchsticks and turning nearly every manmade structure into shrapnel. People were crushed, cut, and subjected to all sorts of terrible physical trauma. The second greatest cause of death was fire itself: houses which caught fire, killing the people trapped inside; people who died from severe burns to their bodies; etc. "Only" 15-20% of people died from radiation sickness, according to U.S. estimates at the time; and again, returning to the question of fallout, it was reportedly negligible at Hiroshima, implying that similarly executed detonations would also produce negligible fallout.

tl;dr I don't think the U.S.'s decision to use or not use nuclear bombs will hinge on concerns of radiation poisoning, let alone radiation poisoning affecting nations literally hundreds of miles away.

The other point my friend would make to you is, look at the Korean Peninsula from space at night and tell me how many cities are strategically relevant targets. I'm not sure I necessarily agree with his vociferous answer ^^; ("One "), but his point is quite valid that, underground weapons bunkers aside, it seems pretty clear that the whole of North Korea outside of Pyongyang is still living in the 19th century by American standards.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #28
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nor...as-abil,31016/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/wor...h-korea,31265/

My friend is an intern at an organization devoted to helping the people in North Korea. That country has as many problems as the CSA and the USSR, I swear to God.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 10:52 PM   #29
Sneaze
Mrow?
 
Sneaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Camping the White Market
Posts: 6,934
__________________

Daisy wins at life for making this Battle Cut
Sneaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 10:57 PM   #30
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Hahaha, I was just about to post that.

It appears North Korea has cut their hotline with the South. SK and the USA also began their annual war games today, to which North Korea said they would retaliate.

Perhaps they might actually do something.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 11:24 PM   #31
Tyranidos
beebooboobopbooboobop
 
Tyranidos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Krusty Krab
Posts: 3,800
Send a message via AIM to Tyranidos Send a message via MSN to Tyranidos
Well they said they would make their move March 11th. It's March 11th there now, so I dunno.
__________________
Tyranidos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 01:09 AM   #32
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyranidos View Post
Well they said they would make their move March 11th. It's March 11th there now, so I dunno.
I'm speaking to you as a magnetic cloud formed from ionized vapour. They've made their move, alright.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 12:39 PM   #33
Haymez
Decidedly Epic
 
Haymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The land of balloons and dirt
Posts: 1,707
Send a message via Skype™ to Haymez
Reddit's take on a North Korean attack on South Korea:

Spoiler: show
__________________
Haymez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2013, 08:51 PM   #34
Tyranidos
beebooboobopbooboobop
 
Tyranidos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Krusty Krab
Posts: 3,800
Send a message via AIM to Tyranidos Send a message via MSN to Tyranidos
Spoiler: show
__________________
Tyranidos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 01:03 PM   #35
DaveTheFishGuy
Primordial Fishbeast
 
DaveTheFishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,258
Send a message via Skype™ to DaveTheFishGuy
I lol'd, TDos.

Is it bad that I kind of want North Korea to launch an attack just to watch them get utterly wrecked in return?
DaveTheFishGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 05:21 PM   #36
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
The Onion is eating this up. They've enumerated NK's War Preparations.

NK is such a sad country at the moment. I wish I could go there to help out.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:59 AM   #37
Sneaze
Mrow?
 
Sneaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Camping the White Market
Posts: 6,934
So Japan has stated that they will shoot down any NK missiles, even if they are just tests.
__________________

Daisy wins at life for making this Battle Cut
Sneaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:26 AM   #38
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Good. I'm sick of North Korea's shit. Time to stop dancing around the issue.

Tokyo right now:


Last edited by deoxys; 04-09-2013 at 01:32 AM.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #39
Amras.MG
Not sure if gone...
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Or just lurking.
Posts: 2,709
deo you do realize that if this leads to actual war it will barely affect you at all, whereas it will put hundreds of thousands of lives in danger in Asia?

I realize that you're tired of reading news stories about this, but for fuck's sake we should never be encouraging war except as a last resort.
Amras.MG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #40
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Well, kind of. But in that a US counter strike at North Korea will put China in an awkward position, it could directly lead to a whole lot of US servicemen dying down the line.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 03:06 PM   #41
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
It's like World War II except instead of a major power that has focused its efforts on employing its peasantry to make war materials and training up soldiers, there is a tiny and abrasive nation that has paid its current scientists more money than it used to!

That said, I'm surprised Kim Jong Un has survived this long. Usually the USA assassinates dictators it doesn't like pretty quickly. They even tried to bomb Hitler - he was saved by a secretary who picked up the briefcase containing the explosive and moved it across the room.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 03:59 PM   #42
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amras.MG View Post
deo you do realize that if this leads to actual war it will barely affect you at all, whereas it will put hundreds of thousands of lives in danger in Asia?

I realize that you're tired of reading news stories about this, but for fuck's sake we should never be encouraging war except as a last resort.
I don't disagree with you, and I don't advocate war, nor am I trying to encourage it. However, this is entirely NK's fault. They have openly and directly threatened to nuke America. They didn't say they might, they said they were 100% going to do it. They said they would destroy South Korea and reabsorb them into one nation. Even if we all know that's a load of crap, how is that acceptable? Where do we draw the line? When they shoot a missile over Japanese territory, do the Japanese not have the right to shoot it down? You say this as though this as though we would be picking a fight, but the only one looking for a fight is NK. And let's not forget about the moral and inhuman atrocities they commit within their borders day in and day out that no one is ever going to step up and say anything about or investigate...
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:34 PM   #43
Amras.MG
Not sure if gone...
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Or just lurking.
Posts: 2,709
My post could be construed as more debatey than misc. discussiony, hence the spoilers for those wishing to avoid that.

Spoiler: show
I'm not trying to lay blame on America or its allies or anything like that. I was merely trying to point out that in reality this does not affect most of us, and thus that wanting war to come so we can "sort all this out" or something like that is not a good thing. War is not good. At this point, if hostilities were to break out, we'd probably have to kill the majority of North Koreans (because having the whole world against you tends to give a people a "backed into the corner, fight tooth and nail to the last breath" mindframe).

Also I am still unconvinced about the whole "US going around liberating people" thing. Don't we catch shit for that all the time?
Amras.MG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:46 PM   #44
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Responding in debate forums
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:48 AM   #45
McSweeney
Soul Badge
 
McSweeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 1,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post

That said, I'm surprised Kim Jong Un has survived this long. Usually the USA assassinates dictators it doesn't like pretty quickly. They even tried to bomb Hitler - he was saved by a secretary who picked up the briefcase containing the explosive and moved it across the room.
That wasn't the USA, that was a German colonel named Claus von Stauffenberg who tried to start a coup against Hitler. That guy had the most impressive jaw line I've ever seen.
__________________


Smoking Gary sez:
"Stay in school kidz"
McSweeney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:51 AM   #46
Loki
The Path of Now & Forever
 
Loki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsweeney View Post
That wasn't the USA, that was a German colonel named Claus von Stauffenberg who tried to start a coup against Hitler. That guy had the most impressive jaw line I've ever seen.
I thought the exact same thing, but I wasn't certain which assassination attempt he was referring to.

The only person I think the USA had actually attempted to assassinate neutralize was Fidel Castro.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #47
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsweeney View Post
That wasn't the USA, that was a German colonel named Claus von Stauffenberg who tried to start a coup against Hitler. That guy had the most impressive jaw line I've ever seen.
My seventh grade history teacher lied to me
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 08:00 AM   #48
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
And this is why yanks are all stoopid.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 11:15 AM   #49
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
And this is why yanks are all stoopid.
Interestingly enough, my teacher was German....

...I have just realized the possibility that when she said "We" she did not mean "the US". Huh. Well, she /was/ about 80 at the time.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 01:06 PM   #50
Tyranidos
beebooboobopbooboobop
 
Tyranidos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Krusty Krab
Posts: 3,800
Send a message via AIM to Tyranidos Send a message via MSN to Tyranidos
Remember when North Korea made a bunch of threats and then nothing happened?
__________________
Tyranidos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > The Misc


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.