UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-07-2016, 12:16 AM   #176
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
The Pokemon Tower is freaking annoying when you can't outspeed Gastly or Haunter.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 03:56 PM   #177
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
#1

So I don't have Surf yet, what's the best area for me to go to to grind out training in lieu of that? I don't have all the badges yet - I skipped Vermillion and Celadon to train my lesser Pokemon - but I really want to pump my runningback Nidoking so I don't have to focus on him again.

#2 Thunder or Thunderbolt?

Nidoking can learn either, but I'm getting worried about my PP/accuracy issues. I already have Ice Beam (10 PP), Earthquake (10 PP), and Body Slam (21 pp, +2). There aren't many PP Up left in the game, so rather than boost my STAB or the very versatile Ice Beam I opted for Body Slam's neutral damage and +3 PPs.

Thunder is the stronger attack with the higher chance of paralysis, but my team is pretty good at spreading paralysis anyway and that 10 PP seems threatening when it comes to leveling up Nidoking or sweeping.

#3 Venusaur set

I considered Missingno's advice but I felt like Toxic/Leech Seed might be too slow for my team and it's an odd mix on what I currently have:

Raichu: Support
Hypno: Support/Attacker
Nidoking: All-Out Attacker

I've got two options I guess, Sweeper/Stall:

Sleep Powder
Swords Dance
Hyper Beam
Razor Leaf

or

Sleep Powder
Leech Seed
Toxic
Rest

I haven't found an opponent that was too powerful for me to rely on the Toxic/Leech Seed glitch. But I have ample opportunity to Swords Dance Venusaur to +6 and sweep with Hyper Beams. I don't have any other sweepers at the moment, aside from Nidoking.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 03:58 PM   #178
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
I would much prefer using the sweeper set.

Since Hyper Beam is the best move ever!!!
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 09:26 AM   #179
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I only just learned that Thrash is a very rare move in RBY, only six Pokemon learn it and one is Nidoking. None of the others are available early in game - the soonest would be Cubone in Lavender Town.

Thrash's virtues then could be missed, since it appears too late for most players to recognize it. But with Nidoking I was able to sweep almost every trainer I've faced with that move. If they have 4 Pokemon, I can KO all of them with just a single Thrash, which made long grinds much easier. That 20 PP you start off with is more like 80 PP.

It's pretty crazy how broken Nidoking is in Blue, especially early. I remember my second playthrough of Red, I hacked in a Dratini as my Level 5 Pokemon, and was amazed at how broken Wrap seemed to the low-level wilds around Pallet.

Nidoking with Thrash is like that, but legal. I just wish there were stronger Pokemon around because I'm still ripping apart everything.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 11:55 AM   #180
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Is it broken though? It doesn't learn a great deal else, Poison is a crap offence and its stats are garbage.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 11:56 AM   #181
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
If you knock out the target, do you still get recoil from Double Edge?

Having given Body Slam to Nidoking, I think the Swords Dance-Hyper Beam combo bit is a bit overkill for Venusaur. Hyper Beam kills almost anything normally, but I need more PP's.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 12:17 PM   #182
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Is it broken though? It doesn't learn a great deal else, Poison is a crap offence and its stats are garbage.
It sure seems like it.

He's OU in later generations. What holds back Nidoking in RBY seems to be the defensive typing, making it weak to the omnipresent Ice Beam and Psychic - Gengar is the only poison type capable of handling RBY OU, because it's so fast and versatile.

Admittedly, Sabrina's Alakazam managed to 1HKO a weakened version of Nidoking despite a level disadvantage, so it's a fair weakness. By which I mean, I Thrashed all of Sabrina's other Pokemon, took recoil from the confusion, and that weakened Nidoking enough to get into 1HKO territory.

Nidoking's stats aren't super great, but because of his impressive learn-set, which is comparable to Dragonite, he can make up for his weaknesses with super effective special moves in Generation 1:

-Thunderbolt/Thunder kill all Water types and most Ice types (which are dual-typed with Water). Nidoking outspeeds all Water types except Starmie and Tentacruel.
-Diglett/Dugtrio are the only faster Ground type tree and Nidoking can 1HKO them with Ice Beam after taking an Earthquake.
-Earthquake inflicts massive destruction to anything with a weak special or is weak to it

In my Blue playthrough, he's definitely OP early game. Misty is a threat type-wise but since she's an early gym leader, her Pokemon are easy to out-level, so the type disadvantage isn't as much an issue. Thrash doesn't give the opponent a chance to respond, and since Nidoking is a poison-type I never have to worry about being poisoned by the random stuff out there. I walked through everything from Vermillion on without any real threat, except for the Saffron Gym, which I was still able to solo with Nidoking in the high 50's.

I'm worried about the Elite Four, but we'll see how that goes.

Note too that I raised Nidoking from Level 16, so he's been leveling up as a third evolution Pokemon for quite some time now. I maxed out all his EVs by the time I hit Lavender Town.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 12:44 PM   #183
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Is it broken though? It doesn't learn a great deal else, Poison is a crap offence and its stats are garbage.
You're completely wrong.

It has a vast special movepool, good mixed offensive stats, and is a very solid Ground-type.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 01:10 PM   #184
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
I did mean natural lesrnset, poison is still dead weight and they're ok. But if it works it works!
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 06:04 AM   #185
dirkac
uhhhhh
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: home
Posts: 1,386
Poison is undecidedly crap beyond very-early game but


Being able to hit Parasect for yet another form of x4 Damage is pretty cool?
dirkac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:38 AM   #186
Missingno. Master
An actual game I made!
 
Missingno. Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,146
I dunno, I kinda enjoy using Weezing in-game in Generation I. I don't even wait for Cinnabar Island half the time- sometimes I use the Mew Glitch to get a Koffing early and train that up. As long as I keep it the hell away from the Psychic-types (and the Ground-types to a lesser extent, even though Ground moves are less of a concern in-game in general), it usually does pretty well. I could very well be biased, though, considering what my favorite Pokémon is.
__________________
Missingno. Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 09:47 AM   #187
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
The issue with Poison is mostly to do with Poison's strongest move being Sludge.

Weezing is pretty cool though, although its biggest perk is the ability to go boom.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 11:52 AM   #188
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
My data got corrupted so I had to replay the game from a much earlier slot. And re-train everything.

Current team: Hypno, Venusaur, Poliwrath, Nidoking

Poliwrath's set:

Amnesia
Surf
Rest
Hypnosis

I need Submission, should I take out Hypnosis or Rest for Submission? Rest undoes the damage from Submission but Hypnosis lets Poliwrath setup by himself.

Nidoking exempted, the other members of my team are geared toward spreading status:

Venusaur:

Sleep Powder
Toxic
Leech Seed
Razor Leaf

Hypno:

Thunder Wave
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
Psychic

Both Venusaur+Hypno have recovery + status. Poliwrath is the odd man out but he serves a different role as a wall/special sweeper. Suggestions?
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 12:20 PM   #189
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Rest probably isn't needed as much in game because if Potions and stuff.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 12:54 PM   #190
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I don't use potions or other items for battles.

It's crazy Dragonite doesn't learn Fly. That denies it a STAB move and it's a real pain because getting a x4 HM mule in Gen 1 seems impossible. It looks like Charizard, who I don't have, is the best option for that.

Dragonite

Strength
Surf
Fire Blast
Hyper Beam

HMs and different coverage from Nidoking. Boy, lack of Fly bites hard.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 12:57 PM   #191
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Charizard doesn't learn Fly until Pokémon Yellow anyway. Aren't you playing Red/Blue? If that's the case, then don't feel too bad about not having a Charizard HM slave. (Not that I could ever imagine relegating a Charizard to nothing but HM duty ... >_<)
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 01:10 PM   #192
Missingno. Master
An actual game I made!
 
Missingno. Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,146
If you're not adverse to making use of glitches, you could catch an 'M. It learns Cut and Fly, and has access to Surf and Strength once evolved into Kangaskhan. This would have to wait until Cinnabar Island, of course, but considering your original plan called for a Dragonite, I get the feeling you're patient in that regard. Just don't catch a level 0 'M unless you have room in your party for it- trying to withdraw a level 0 'M from the PC will freeze the game.
__________________
Missingno. Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 01:26 PM   #193
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I won't use glitches exactly, but like in my Baldur's Gate days I will use things that bend the rules if there's a narrative reason for said rule. Like, I used the Poke Doll on Marowak's Ghost so I could fight Koga and explore the rest of the game without having to to do the Team Rocket grind quests. Silph Co. is really a pain in the arse.

Marowak's Ghost, like the Snorlaxes, are effectively plot devices to force doing the subplots, and having done them in this Blue playthrough already I don't care to give it another shot.

Toxic/Leech Seed are similar. It very well could have been a coding glitch, but you never know if that was intended. Poke Dolls on Marowak's Ghost likewise might not have been unintended (since, you still need to beat Team Rocket and Giovanni twice to open up Viridian).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Charizard doesn't learn Fly until Pokémon Yellow anyway. Aren't you playing Red/Blue? If that's the case, then don't feel too bad about not having a Charizard HM slave. (Not that I could ever imagine relegating a Charizard to nothing but HM duty ... >_<)
Yeah. I didn't know Raichu didn't learn Surf until Yellow, either.

It's not like the Venusaur-Hypno-Nidoking galaxy trio need any help anyway. Nidoking by himself has already, basically, solo'd the game.

IIRC, in Gen V wasn't it possible to inflict multiple status effects? It's a pain to be unable to use Toxic with sleep-inducing moves.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 01:31 PM   #194
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
You've never been able to stack status effects.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 02:03 PM   #195
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Counterpoint: Even in Generation I, you can inflict Confusion alongside the other status effects. Although Confusion is apparently not counted as a bona fide status effect, since the status bar doesn't change once it's applied.

I realize now Rhydon can wall me if I get rid of Razor Leaf. I was considering this set for Venusaur:

Swords Dance
Toxic
Leech Seed
Hyper Beam

But I can't really kill off a Rhydon if I get rid of Razor Leaf. A +6 Hyper Beam isn't enough to kill off Rhydon, and he will 2HKO Venusaur. I'd have to switch in to Poliwrath or Hypno to combat at Rhydon.

Sooo...

Swords Dance
Toxic
Hyper Beam
Razor Leaf

Does the Leech Seed actually increase the Toxic damage, or does Toxic only increase the HP recovery of Leech Seed?
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 02:10 PM   #196
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Toxic's damage is increased, along with Leech Seeds.

Also I don't think any of the Rhydon's run anything of note so you can feasibly stall them out.

Confusion is weird and they have different terms for poison / paralysis than they do for confusion / infatuation
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 02:24 PM   #197
Missingno. Master
An actual game I made!
 
Missingno. Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Literally the internet
Posts: 9,146
Yeah, confusion isn't considered to be a major status ailment like poison, paralysis, burn, sleep, or freeze. Those five are the ones that can't be stacked- anything that automatically wears off after switching out, like confusion, Leech Seed, Attract, those are the ones that can be stacked.
__________________
Missingno. Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 03:08 PM   #198
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Toxic's damage is increased, along with Leech Seeds.

Also I don't think any of the Rhydon's run anything of note so you can feasibly stall them out.

Confusion is weird and they have different terms for poison / paralysis than they do for confusion / infatuation
If that's the case, the best set is:

Hyper Beam
Toxic
Leech Seed
Razor Leaf

Because boosting Hyper Beam with Swords Dance (an otherwise useless move except to boost the 5 PP Hyper Beam) is accomplished just as well by vaporizing the opponent's HP with Toxic/Leech Seed. That damage puts the opponent in Hyper Beam's kill range.

...

Believe it or not, this is the first time I've actually played Pokemon as a team-orieinted game. I think most players do things like me and pump either their starter or whatever pseudo-legendary they catch to obscene power levels and just force through the game with 1HKOs. When I was younger, it wasn't uncommon for me to win primarily on power sets with the starter and/or Dragonite, legendaries or other strong Pokemon.

This play-through is unique in that, by not pumping one Pokemon the battles are more challenging and fun, since I don't have quite the level advantage I would in previous runs. In most of my prior RBY games, Dragonite, Charizard or Venusaur would be in the high 90's and would solo the Elite Four and champion. I'd use a bunch of items or hack in stuff to make it easier. I didn't care for the tactical challenge so much as the accomplishment of being called the best.

Of course, this mentality changed when I played Baldur's Gate, but I think my first play of Blue happened before I got BG. BG was all about challenging tougher opponents with tricks and teamwork, and while limited this is somewhat similar.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 08:05 PM   #199
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
What should I use my PP Ups on, Earthquake or Thunderbolt?

If I use all three on one, I get 16 PP Earthquake and 21 for Thunderbolt. Earthquake is my STAB move.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 10:47 AM   #200
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
For fun, I hunted down one of the Cerulean Cave Ditto, had it transform into Nidoking, and fought it with the rest of my team.

I got wrecked! Only until the Ditto fought the real Nidoking and repeatedly used Thunderbolt for some odd reason (Nidoking could only use Struggle) did I actually win. All other five Pokemon were OHKO'd by the super effective moves. I was seriously impressed, but I wonder if the game was just randomly picking moves.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.