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Old 12-09-2015, 03:14 PM   #1
Crys
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Mewtwo VGC 2016 Ruleset Announced: Mewtwo Strikes Back

So I'd have waited for someone with actual power to make a new thing on it, but i'm too damn giggity and am hyped af r/n for the 16 format, so I figured I'd get the word out. So here's a discussion thread.

The VGC 2016 Season Ruleset has been announced: It's GS Cup.

For those of you who weren't around, or hell even knew what a VGC was in 2010, GS Cup was that format. It includes all non-mythical legendaries, such as Dialga, Ho-oh, Mewtwo, Girantina, Lugia, and more.

To quote Pokemon.com,

Quote:
Here is the basic information that players need to know:

All battles will be Double Battles played in Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire.

Time limits for battles will vary by event. At major events (Regional Championships and above), battles will have a 15-minute time limit, 45-second move timer, and a 90-second Team Preview.

Pokémon brought in via Poké Transporter will not be permitted (the blue pentagon is required).

All discovered Pokémon will be allowed except the following Mythical Pokémon: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect, Diancie, and Hoopa.

Teams may have no more than two of the following Pokémon: Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde.

All items will be allowed except Soul Dew. Each Pokémon must hold a different item.
Now from a brief look at this list, some big and powerful threats this year include:
  • Mega Rayquaza
  • Mega Mewtwo
  • Dialga
  • Xernes
  • Primal Kyogre
  • Primal Groudon
  • Palkia
  • Girantina

Honestly I'm fucking thrilled about this format, though admittingly Mega Ray and Primals will run rampant. This does however mean lesser used mons, such as Cloud Nine Golduck, could see a resurgence. What are you guys thoughts?
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:20 PM   #2
Talon87
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Dismay. The answer to "Too many legendaries! @_@" is not "MOAR LEGENDARIES! " Stupid TPCi.

But only partial dismay. Because it'll be kinda fun to take Mewtwo and Dialga and the like out for a test spin.

But still dismay because wtf what do you mean "No Mythicals"? I wanna use Diancie and Jirachi and goddammit. D:

But excitement because no more excuses from Ray Rizzo -- this is his format, so it's time for him to "put up or shut up," as the saying goes. (Bad wording though. All accounts point to Ray's modesty and thus the "shut up" bit is weirdly out of place. You know what I mean though! )

So we'll see. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. Not too excited though. Really would've preferred the return of a format like KalosDex.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:06 PM   #3
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Ray confirmed via his twitter that he's getting back into mons this season for the format. That's something, at least.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:20 PM   #4
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Already people are arguing over whether the best strategy is to have:
  1. two legendaries, a mega, and one ordinary Pokémon
  2. one legendary, Mega Raquaza, and two ordinary Pokémon
Some people say Mega Rayquaza is just too good to pass up. Others say the smarter strategy is to run two legends and a separate mega in your third slot. (Specifically one of those legends ought to be Primal Groudon or Primal Kyogre, they say, for obvious power reasons.) Time will tell which strategy wins out in the end. I expect we'll see plenty of both in the lead up to Worlds.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:21 PM   #5
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I'm actually pretty happy to see that this is how it's gonna happen, mainly because I predicted this.

If I had to make a top 5 threat list (in no particular order), it'd go:
Spoiler: show
1. Kyogre/Primal Kyogre: The sheer power that this thing has and its amazing bulk will definitely make it a 'mon to prepare for, being able to either stay in its regular form and a adopt a Choice Scarf + Water Spout combo or even be able to go Primal and have Thunders being launched left, right and centre will cement this beast as a top tier threat.

2. Dialga: an amazing TR setter despite it's rather high speed (Base 90). We saw Dialga adopt TR strategies in Primal Battle and I won't be surprised to see it again.

3. Primal Groudon: All I need to say is, hello Chlorophyll sweepers and hello Mega-Camerupt. (I so wouldn't use that combo. >_>)

4. Palkia: Yeah, this thing is kind of regular Kyogre just with an added Dragon typing.

5. Mega-Rayquaza: I don't need to explain this thing.

Spoiler: show
6. TR Mewtwo: Yeah, this thing may or may not come back from the past to haunt VGC again.


So, P-Groudon + M-Camerupt just might be the team I go with regardless of them sharing a ground weakness, we'll see though.

Unfortunately, I see Eviolite users having less of an impact this time around.

I can also see a mass flow of Fairy and Rock types, to try and shut down M-Rayquaza.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:51 PM   #6
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Goddamnit VGCs. I trusted you.

This is not a competitive game anymore. MegaQuaza is a middle finger to the concept, and they'll let that and BigDeer and Primals run around, but fucking MEW isn't kosher? The hell is that!? This is also adding in the fact that the legends can't be bred for IVs, so all the people toting them will almost definitely have done so via RNG abuse. Granted, that applied for things like Lando-T and Cress, but they had enough counters from the masses that it wasn't so much an issue. But at this point, it's almost certain to be "may the best MegaQuaza win," and that'll be dominated by people who figure out how many times they need to soft reset to get a 6V Quaza.

TL;DR the fact that the thing that created Anything Goes is allowed but not an OU mon has made me lose faith in this format entirely.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:02 PM   #7
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You do realize that they banned them just because they are of a specific group of hard to obtain Legends? It actually makes some form of sense, not everyone is going to have a legal Mew and its rather easy to access pretty much everything else not on the list. I might be wrong on one or two but that's why they're called Mythical Legends.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:03 PM   #8
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Myles, TPCi don't give a crap for Smogon tiering.

GS Cup has always been no mythicals but every other legend is available.

Beat.

Kinda happy though that there's no Hoopa-U running around for TR.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
You do realize that they banned them just because they are of a specific group of hard to obtain Legends? It actually makes some form of sense, not everyone is going to have a legal Mew and its rather easy to access pretty much everything else not on the list. I might be wrong on one or two but that's why they're called Mythical Legends.
Fair, but for all that difficulty of access, there are several that would kill to be as outright powerful as some of this shit. That's my beef with it.

@Chiko-Tiers be damned, Ubers wasn't even a tier per se until MegaQuaza existed. It's a fuck-you to competitive, so much so it was shoved into a meta that has literally no restrictions-and it still reigns supreme. Just look at the few posts already, and see how incredibly over centralizing it is.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:50 PM   #10
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Keep in mind the first day isn't even over yet. As time progresses, things that seem more broken than shaco now may turn out to be less than so.

I'm also particuarly liking Mega Salamence, Groudon, and Dialga. (Salamence outspeeds and ohkos Mega Rayquaza!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Already people are arguing over whether the best strategy is to have:
  1. two legendaries, a mega, and one ordinary Pokémon
  2. one legendary, Mega Raquaza, and two ordinary Pokémon
Some people say Mega Rayquaza is just too good to pass up. Others say the smarter strategy is to run two legends and a separate mega in your third slot. (Specifically one of those legends ought to be Primal Groudon or Primal Kyogre, they say, for obvious power reasons.) Time will tell which strategy wins out in the end. I expect we'll see plenty of both in the lead up to Worlds.
Mega Rayquaza is certainly strong, but so far I've found it to be less than desirable. Sure, its stats and ability to hold an item makes it incredibly strong, but it has its drawbacks. For one, it takes up not only your 1 of two Box Legends, but also your one mega slot and an item slot. It also doesn't exactly have the best synergy, it's just sort of a standalone sweeper. Additionally, if it doesn't outspeed something and ko it, it usually dies from the defense dropped provided by Dragon Ascent. TR also shuts it down entirely, with the best mon so far for that seemingly being Dialga. But yeah, it should be a fun longhaul this year.



Something interesting to note: Unless you have connections, Telepathy Dialga, Palkia, and Girantina are Japanese Meta Exclusives, making these mons the rarest mons in the current international format.

So errr.. this being said, anyone here manage to pick one up from the Hoopa Movie?
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:54 PM   #11
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>format in which Mega Raquay is legal

lol no thanks
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:26 PM   #12
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To be honest, I'm falling in love with 'Support Disruption' Yveltal, bulky and gets access to Taunt + Disable as well as Roost which makes it incredibly tanky.

Gonna be a staple of mine.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:30 AM   #13
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Have a short analysis of two hours on the ever haxy showdown ladder:

First note: Groudon and Kyogre are absolutely everywhere. They are easily the two biggest threats for any team this year and you must have an answer for both. ONe, the other, or both will appear on a vast, vast majority of teams and I don't expect that do change anytime soon. Be prepared.

IN general, most of the top tier Pokemon are still around, although in smaller numbers per team. I have yet to see a team with more than two members of CHALK on it. Landorus, Kangaskhan, and Cresslia are all still sticking around. Landorus in particular pressure Groudon, Cresselia is still a bulkier than average Pokemon, although her primary purpose is Trick Room from the teams I've seen with her. Khan still does lot of damage and should not be ignored.

Heatran, however, has dropped off the face of the earth, and for good reason. Groudon and Kyogre being popular make using it much too risky. Aegislash is only seeing usage because of Wide Guard and the fact that it's typing can handle anything that isn't the two Primals.

As for the not-quite-CHALK-level-of-usage Pokemon, Thundurus still stands as the go to support Pokemon, with Thunder Wave disrupting fast Pokemon ad packing a nice immunity to Precipice blades and SSTAB against Kyogre. It's still more or less the same as last year. Amoonguss sees more usage with Kyogre for obvious reasons, but is still a presence. Consider packing Flying and Psychic coverage over fire coverage this time around.

Speaking of Flying and Psychic, Mega Rayquaza and Mewtwo are both around a bit. Mega Rayquaza is much less a threat than everyone thinks it is, although you should still prepare for it in the mean time. The problem with Mega Mence is that it doesn't pack the powerful two target coverage the Primals have, and it's best flying move, Dragon Ascent, leaves it weak to most neutral moves in the game. Its popularity is not that high and it will only get lower, especially after people realize that Mega Salamance outspeeds and OHKOs Mega Rayquaza. As of right now, Mega Rayquaza is being paired with a lot of Primal Groudon, but eventually I expect Mega Rayquaza's usage to diminish in usage in favor of Mega Salamance, which pairs nicely with both Primals and keeps Mega Rayquaza at bay. Both Pokemon have similar coverage, so counting one is not too fdifferent from the other, but still be prepared.

Mewtwo is also a relevant factor, most often than not being paired with Kyogre for powerful coverage and damage. Mega Mewtwo Y is the one in favor, and with Mega Rayquaza/Mega Salamance being a very real threat I don't expect Mega X to come out anytime soon. Aeigslash and bulky psychics handle mewtwo fairly well, assuming it doesn't have Shadow Ball. Most Mewtwo however run Psystrike/Aura Sphere/Ice Beam/Recover, so don't be too worried about Shadow Ball. Other generally bulky Pokemon and good speed control such as Thundurus put Mewtwo down pretty quickly.

Another dangerous Pokemon is Power Herb Geomancy Xerneas, which is currently the only set up Pokemon that can do well due to the sheer stats it gets.Aegislash again comes in as a check, so long as you run physical instead of special. Taunting it and Speed control also kind of deter it, and strong physical attacks will defeat it once you've crippled it. AV Landorus-T is one of its better checks.

Lastly, expect Dialga to surface on occasion. While not incredibly terrifying on its own, it is a powerful Pokemon with a typing that can be kind of hard to get past. Having at least one fighting or ground type is usually good enough, so long as you know they can take a hit from Dialga.

As for general notes, Ground types are all the rage right now, hitting all the major legendaries for neutral or SE. Landorus is the most popular taker of the Ground type spot, but still expect more of those. Also, more Pokemon are running Grass Knot because Groudon and Kyogre weigh a ton, so you might want to make familiar with the most common users of it, Thundurus and a few select grass types. Also because it's been like a day expect all kinds of cheesey gimmicks on the showdown ladder, like Smeargle Liepard cheese or Perish trap. Also Cloud Nine Golduck. Yeah.

For the future: I expect Ho-oh to be realized as a nice partner to Groudon, as the Heat Wave Preciple Blade pressure is pretty insane. Most of the common pokemon will stay common I think, with the expection of Mega Rayquaza which I think will be switched out for Mega salamance for the reasons I stated.

Tl;dr Groundon and Jyogre run rampant, Mega Rayquaza is there but will fall out in favor of Mega Sally, most of the popular mon of last year besides Heatran are still around, Mewtwo, Zerneas, and Dialga are new popular but not centralizing faces, Ho-oh might see use later on, Cloud Nine Golduck is really stupid.
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:49 AM   #14
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I threw together a very shitty VGC 2016 team composed of a few putative heavyweights (Mewtwo, Groudon, Salamence), a few classic disruptors (Aerodactyl, Raichu), and then Cherrim because Duy over on Nugget Bridge said to try it out but man if I can't make it work yet. -.- Anyway ...

Here's my third game. My thoughts so far: the lower ladder is congested with scrubs. I lost my first game to a guy who kept calling "gg" before it was clear who would win -- and only lost to him because, on the second to last turn, he did something unorthodox at the same time that I too did something unorthodox, and his unorthodox play benefited greatly from mine. Then the second two players I faced, one called "gg" mistakenly several turns before I reversed the tide and won the battle; and the other (see link above) refused to toss in the towel even though it was his Volt Switch / Hydro Pump / Will-o-Wisp / Pain Split Rotom-Wash vs. my Ground/Fire Primal Groudon ... in perma-sun. ^^; -_-; Look. I don't do much Ubers battling and even I know how Desolate Land works with water. Worse still ... I'm going to be part-Fire even if sun goes away. You can't burn me with Will-o-Wisp. -_-

That stated, my team sucks balls and I'm no pro at VGC either. So while I dislike the scrub congestion here at the bottom of the ladder, I recognize that I am not much better than them currently. Need more practice with this format. And definitely need a better team. Current team plays and feels as bad in my hands as the teams I made from scratch for VGC 2014. Shameless though it may be, I could definitely use a pro player's team as a template to start off with.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:19 PM   #15
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The first Volt Switch is understandable. The second is just raw stupidity. Likewise with the Hydro Pumps.
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Old 12-10-2015, 05:34 PM   #16
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Rotom Wash and Primal Groudon have this weird relationship where Rotom-W tanks a lot of Groudon's fire hits but also does nothing to it. I originally thought Rotom-Wash would counter Groundon until I actually took it against a Groudon and realized that they both do nothing to each other.

Oh yeah the top 500 reachesa minimum of the high 1100s last I checked so uh yeah everyone's a pleb
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