UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2016, 12:23 PM   #551
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
No Dave you're bang on.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 09:53 AM   #552
Raves
a quick fly cuppa
 
Raves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Life and love make fools of us all. Gods reject the existence of love and life.
Posts: 2,452
Send a message via Skype™ to Raves
I'm pretty much convinced that killing was an inside job by the Remain camp.
__________________
Stale Water.

Unruly Premonition.
Raves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 11:03 AM   #553
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Do you even hear how absurdly crazy you sound?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 11:59 AM   #554
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
If you're with Remain, no lousy answers for Leave. If you're for Leave, no lousy answers for Remain:

I'd like each Briton who's willing to give me five minutes of their time on this to provide the three most compelling reasons they can think of for why Britain should remain with the EU and the three most compelling reasons for why it should exit. Everything I find online is nothing but half of that request with a bunch of straw men representing the other side set up expressly to be torn down and weakly persuade. Even if you think the side to which you don't belong is moronic, I'd like you to give the three best, real, legitimate, strong reasons you have heard of for why Britain should do that thing.

Not really looking for in-depth answers though I won't turn them away. Would appreciate answers that I guess are roughly 150 to 500 characters per point.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 08:56 AM   #555
JustAnotherUser
Only Mostly Lurking
 
JustAnotherUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: England, UK
Posts: 2,297
Send a message via Skype™ to JustAnotherUser
Forgive my presumptiveness, but I don't think it's possible to answer that question satisfactorily - as what I have seen of the Brexit campaign largely seems to be rooted on incredibly flimsy ground, at best. These three points are the ones I see argued the most by people who are pro-leave.

1) EU politicians - people we did not elect - are making laws and policies that the British populace are forced to be subject to; the british people should have more influence over laws that affect them.
2) Britain's economy would be stronger without sending (what are essentially) "membership fees" to the EU, as well as from tapping into the larger world market moreso than we do.
3) Britain would be better able to limit immigration - both legal and illegal - into and out of the country if it had tighter control of it's own borders, which being in the EU limits.

At a glance, the first two seem quite solid; however, they both ignore quite a lot of information. For the first point, it seems to be ignoring that British representitives have, since 1996, disagreed with a solid 56 laws the EU has passed - a measley 2% - while agreeing with 2,466 more - we get our way 95% of the time. For the second, this is a blind insistence that I have seen from people that refuse to take in the advice of dozens of economic organisations - including the UK Treasury, The Bank of England, and Oxford Economics - that have come to the conclusion that leaving the EU would actually have a negative effect on our economy. As for the third point, that's the ugly xenophobic head of our country rearing up; simply put, a worryingly large swathe of people here carry some degree of severe prejudice against people who aren't what they see as "British", and anti-immigration campaigning seems to be based largely in a combination of that prejudice, a misunderstanding of economic principles, and general blind misinformation.

As for points as to why Britain should remain within the European Union, the most compelling arguments I've seen myself are the following:

1) The economy is still vulnerable after the last major recession, and staying in the EU is more likely to bring us economic stability - if not prosperity; 1 in 10 British jobs are directly linked to our membership of their market, and the EU provides a solid 50% of our total exports.
2) Membership of the EU provides us with an absurd portfolio of benefits in and around the European continent, including helping catch and extradite criminals, making it cheaper for our students or workers to do so abroad, and giving us a much larger presence in the global political scene
3) If we were to leave the EU, we would be unable to do anything to work towards fixing the problems that are tied to the organisation.

I will admit that the arguments for staying too probably have a fair share of flaws - after all, the first is based merely on prediction which is a flimsy business in economics, and us changing anything about the EU would require significant work considering we're already politically a member at an arms length - but in my opinion, the logic inherent is strong enough that it makes the choice of staying in the EU the clear better of the two.
__________________
[JAU]
Spoiler: show
JustAnotherUser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 10:07 PM   #556
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
You could take those factors in favour of the EU and apply them to the United States, and I think things would be better for Britain overall.

From my investment foray, I've become a much bigger British fan. For one, Britain is one of a handful of nations that doesn't impose tax witholding against the United States. Several of the other countries that don't are former UK colonies (Hong Kong, India). For the rest of Europe, it's close to a 15% rate or more. That's a big disincentive for American dollars flowing into those nations - not because the lesser payout, but because it's a pain in the arse for tax return purposes.

I would certainly love lower barriers to trade, commerce, and travel between the two nations for similarly selfish reasons. And without connection to Europe, Britain is protected from spontaneous meltdowns like Greece. Greece isn't going to be the only European nation whose main source of income is going to be "tourism".
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 08:01 PM   #557
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
There's a Vote Leave guy at the Count I'm working with Rebel Alliance badges on.

Fair play tbh.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 09:41 PM   #558
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
London right now.

Spoiler: show
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 10:36 PM   #559
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I might gasm and that's not chasm.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:04 PM   #560
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Well, someone has to be the first to say it. The BBC has called that Leave has won and Britain is going to leave the European Union. Fuck.

Dow futures have a fall of 650 points, trading has been suspended on the Nikkei, the Pound is down by about 10%, the Euro is at about parity with the dollar, and just about every commodity except for gold and silver has fallen.

The next few days, at least, are going to be very interesting.
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:16 PM   #561
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
It's not the end of the world, if true, but I'm forecasting the fall of Cameron and within three weeks.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:31 PM   #562
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I don't think deh was being poetic, though.



Bollocks, lemme see if I can resize that.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:35 PM   #563
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Oh no I think that most economic things will be sorted out rather quickly, there shouldn't be a massive global recession because of this, but it'll be uncomfortable in the short term certianly. David Cameron and especially George Osborne are done for at least, and I don't know if Theresa May is going to win the imminent leadership contest.
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:39 PM   #564
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
So what's the deal with Dave Cameron? Actually I really want to know this and have been wondering for some time.

My knowledge of politicians since Bush left office has been fairly limited.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:41 PM   #565
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
So what's the deal with Dave Cameron? Actually I really want to know this and have been wondering for some time.

My knowledge of politicians since Bush left office has been fairly limited.
Well that depends on what you really want to know about him.
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 11:47 PM   #566
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I just read an obituary about his career. So here's what I want to know

-following Tony Blair, what political party won power in the UK, and how do they compare against our American counterparts
-why did Cameron promise to call a referendum for an issue that, on face value, seems secondary to so many other things?
-what caused this super nationalistic streak in British citizens to champion a vote like this
-what has Cameron accomplished that made people like Kush dislike him
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 12:08 AM   #567
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I just read an obituary about his career. So here's what I want to know

-following Tony Blair, what political party won power in the UK, and how do they compare against our American counterparts
-why did Cameron promise to call a referendum for an issue that, on face value, seems secondary to so many other things?
-what caused this super nationalistic streak in British citizens to champion a vote like this
-what has Cameron accomplished that made people like Kush dislike him
Tony Blair stepped down and was succeeded by Gordon Brown. In the first election following Blair leaving, a coalition government between the Conservatives and Lib Dems was formed, led by David Cameron.

In 2015, David Cameron promised to hold a referendum if the Conservatives won a majority in an effort to bring some UKIP voters in to support his party. The Tories won a majority in the 2015 election and David Cameron had to fulfill his promise for fear of potential backlash if he didn't. He was then very active in the campaign to remain in the EU.

I have absolutely no idea, other than some people wanting to "take their country back" and a lot more Donald Trump-like rhetoric. So from that I would tentatively put forward the possibility that the reason for supporting Brexit and Trump are fairly similar.

I'll let Kush tell you why he doesn't like David Cameron, I would imagine it might have something to do with austerity though.
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 01:34 AM   #568
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Just here for my shitpost that adds nothing of value to the conversation.

Hopefully it will bring someone a hearty laugh.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 02:30 AM   #569
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Aaaaaaaaaaand David Cameron is resigning.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:07 AM   #570
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 3,562
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
Well now we're fucked.

I'm still not sure how the Leave campaign won: It was based on lies, untruths and just general uncertainty, and it was led by the three largest bellends of British politics: Boris, Gove and Farage.
__________________
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:15 AM   #571
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Aaaaaaaaaaand David Cameron is resigning.
Will he be staying on as Prime Minister until a replacement is found?
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:16 AM   #572
Ironthunder
The Uncultured One
 
Ironthunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere.
Posts: 3,562
Send a message via Skype™ to Ironthunder
idk. I mean this whole thing has been Boris' attempt at a power-grab so it wouldn't be surprising if he was out ASAP.
__________________
Ironthunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:17 AM   #573
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
idk. I mean this whole thing has been Boris' attempt at a power-grab so it wouldn't be surprising if he was out ASAP.
I mean the leadership contest will probably come down to Boris and Theresa May, and at this point I wouldn't be that surprised if he managed to win on the back of this result.
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:29 AM   #574
SoS
Ducks gonna duck
 
SoS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,824
New PM by October apparently.

I'm moving down south.

Demographics are kind of sad tbh. NI, Scotland, Gibraltar and London overwhelmingly voted remain (especially Scotland, holy shit, clean sweep) and are being dragged into this. And leave demographics overwhelmingly from older generation, of course. Cheers baby boomers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Why are you always a pretty princess?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son_of_Shadows View Post
Because I look damn good in a dress.
Fizzy Bubbles Team
PASBL
Wild Future
SoS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:36 AM   #575
deh74
Noted homosexual
 
deh74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Praising the sun
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son_of_Shadows View Post
New PM by October apparently.

I'm moving down south.
So he'll probably be staying on for a bit then. Hopefully his replacement will be Theresa May and my fears of either Boris winning or a general election somehow being called remain unrealized. We don't need this to develop into any more of a mess than it's already going to be.

I've always wanted David Cameron gone, but not like this. Never like this.
__________________




PASBL
The Whistling Sound of Impending Doom.

deh74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.