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Old 08-06-2017, 11:13 AM   #26
Missingno. Master
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I like Dusk Lycanroc. I think I'm gonna use it on my team when US/UM come out. That makes my planned team thus far... Primarina, Dusk Lycanroc, and Delibird.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:58 PM   #27
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Serebii is now reporting some new details that relate to the Dusk Lycanroc:
"Following yesterday's leak of CoroCoro, a clearer image has now come showcasing the details of the distribution of a Rockruff, which they're listing as a 'Special Rockruff' that can evolve into Dusk Form Lycanroc. The distribution will run on Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon from November 17th 2017 through to January 10th 2018."
The information comes from this slightly blurry picture of a CoroCoro magazine page. You can clearly see in the original Japanese two different mentions of a 特別なイワンコ, or "a special Rockruff".

I don't see anything out of the ordinary with the Rockruff pictured, but no matter: given the text, and given the tie-in with the Sun and Moon anime, I get the feeling that this is Ash-Greninja all over again. The same way that ordinary Froakie can't become Ash-Greninja, I wonder if ordinary Rockruff, even in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, won't be able to become Ash-Lycanroc Dusk Lycanroc. If instead, you have to have the event Rockruff with OT:サトシ and all the other various hidden data, and only that Rockruff can ever become the Dusk Lycanroc upon evolution.

If that's the case, then we're right back to Square One as far as reveals of new Pokémon go. I barely considered Dusk Lycanroc to be a reveal of a new Pokémon before this latest news! But after? I can only see it now as some one-off "ExtremeSpeed Linoone" or "Happy Hour Inkay" that, once you miss your window, you'll never be able to get again; and that, unless you hacked or otherwise cheated, is probably not going to come with a good nature or perfect IVs anyway. Fodder for the Showdown fanatics and not much else. For the rest of us, it's just a bookshelf decoration that'll never see any real use.

Hopefully this speculation is wrong, and bred Rockruff can in fact turn into Dusk Lycanroc. Perhaps the "special Rockruff" is nothing more than a plain, ordinary Rockruff with OT:サトシ and nothing else special about it at all. And they're just releasing it alongside USUM's launch. They've released plenty of other animemon in the past, from Ash's Pikachu to Iris's Axew, and perhaps that's all this is too. We'll see!
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:40 PM   #28
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Dusk Lycanroc is a really disappointing reveal. Makes me hope for a Dawn Lycanroc but I kind of doubt it.
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:54 AM   #29
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Ready to be even more disappointed? Corocoro has confirmed that Duskroc is unaccessable during normal gameplay. That's right, we have another Ash-Greninja on our hands. Damn it Ash, you and your special pokemon
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:45 AM   #30
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Stop being haters and just appreciate the awesome new wolfmon who will be better than its brethren (already is based on ability, fingers crossed for stats).
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:14 AM   #31
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Really, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Between the lack of news since reveal (which apparently used to be common?) and the fact that the first news was an extra form who's in-game model is hilariously similar to one of the ones the pokemon already had, a lot of people were under the impression that Gamefreak had nothing to say about the games out of there not being anything to say and declared that it was unlike;y that they'd get a copy, a few for the first time since they started playing the franchise. And what happens as people just start to warm up to the critter (mostly from discovering its better-differentiated pieces elsewhere)? They find out that it isn't even available in normal gameplay by virtue of being event-locked!

Congratz, GF, you've officially killed the hype for a significant portion of your fanbase.

Now, it is possible that I'm referring to a vocal minority with this one, but it's kinda hard to tell. Given that the event means that we technically still know next to nothing about the games themselves, it's certainly easy to see where those guys are coming from so far.

Now, I don't think anyone here has declared the extreme yet (aside from yours truly, albeit for different reasons), and those who do will likely still nab the event for completion's sake if nothing else, so GF needn't worry about UPN, but... they need to step up their game if they want to keep the fans elsewhere. Dusk lycanroc alone isn't doing the trick.

Hopefully the lore behind it doesn't block it off from being available in FB/WF. I don't want to be caught behind the lock despite not even having the system, dang it!
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Median Dia View Post
a lot of people [...] declared that it was unlikely that they'd get a copy
"A lot of people," huh?

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Originally Posted by Median Dia View Post
Congratz, GF, you've officially killed the hype for a significant portion of your fanbase.

Now, it is possible that I'm referring to a vocal minority with this one
That is precisely what you are doing. The vast majority of Pokémon fans still don't even know that Dusk Lycanroc exists. The few who do, we "hyper-fans", the vast majority of us haven't declared that we're not getting USUM. Message boards and other such platforms for online communication tend to be hotbeds for circlejerking, and that's probably what you're seeing with people on the sites you visit declaring they're not going to get USUM. A few passionate negative opinions will stand out against an equally small number of lukewarm positive opinions and an ocean of silence.

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a lot of people [...] declared that it was unlikely that they'd get a copy, a few for the first time since they started playing the franchise.
This is supposed to impress us. But it doesn't impress me. ^^; Because I personally already pulled this move, two generations ago.

The thing is, even when I boycotted Gen 5, I never expected it to have any real impact on their company. I knew I was only one guy. I was painfully aware that millions of people would continue to buy the games. And in the end, my "boycott" saw me enjoying the Gen 5 story enough to go ahead and purchase my very own copy of White 2.

It's going to be the exact same situation again here with USUM. These people who are saying, "I HAVE BOUGHT EVERY SINGLE POKÉMON GAME SINCE {start date}, BUT NO MORE! I AM FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME REFUSING TO BUY ONE! " ... They're going to be standing out in the cold all by themselves. Now that's fine if they're satisfied with their principles -- I was -- but if they're not ... ... They're kidding themselves if they think their actions are going to mean anything to a) Game Freak or b) Game Freak's customers. If the entirety of Serebii's forum members as well as everyone who checks the site at least once weekly were to quit buying the games tomorrow ... the games would still sell millions of copies. And that's obviously not what's going to happen. Serebii isn't mass boycotting USUM. A small, vocal minority of Serebii's site traffic isn't boycotting USUM. No, it's a small, vocal minority of Serebii's webforum that's boycotting it. The thousands of dollars tops that these individuals will cost Game Freak will be more than made up for by excited Pokémon Go casuals looking to get in on the Gen 7 fun but who had been fence sitting up until now.

If they're boycotting on principle, without any delusions that they're going to hit Game Freak right where it hurts and effect change within a couple of generations, then all the more power to them. I understand what it's like. I've been there before, I may one day be there again.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:11 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TheKnightsFury View Post
Stop being haters and just appreciate the awesome new wolfmon who will be better than its brethren (already is based on ability, fingers crossed for stats).
It's just a slightly better looking Midday Lycanroc that you can't get via normal gameplay. I don't even really like Midday Lycanroc to begin with and know its probably unlikely we'll get a Dawn Lycanroc counterpoint for the people like myself who prefer Midnight Lycanroc. There isn't anything to be hyped about from this reveal. It's just bland. It's not a new Pokemon and has basically nothing to do with the games themselves.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:36 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Median Dia View Post
the lack of news since reveal (which apparently used to be common?)
Gen 2:
  • Togepi was premiered in the anime pretty early. March 27, 1999 in the United States. Keep in mind, even Pokémon Yellow wasn't out at this time.
  • rumors circulated about "Pikablu" (Marill); we were aware of his appearance as early as 1999
  • Marill and Snubbull were revealed in the short that came before the first Pokémon movie
  • Game Freak had unveiled a few select Pokémon for Japan's release of the games, and we inherited those images and thus came to learn of "Denryuu" (Ampharos), "Kireihana" (Bellossum), and a couple of others
This was pretty much it until the months before Gold and Silver were announced for the West. The Internet was a very different place back then, and despite the knowledge that Japan was ahead of us in the anime, games, etc, I don't think most of us were really aware of what the future had in store. I can't be certain, it's been almost twenty years now since Gold and Silver were released in the West, but we probably knew about these things in the months between the announcement and the games' sales date:
  • the three new starters, for sure
  • the day/night cycle
  • eggs
  • Espeon and Umbreon
  • the two new types
It's hard for me to imagine that the games came out without us knowing even those details in advance. Given how utterly shocked most of us were by GS's big post-game reveal, I don't think most of us back then knew about things like going back to Kanto, fighting Red atop Mt. Silver, Gary/Blue becoming the gym leader of Viridian City, etc. I think for most of us it was a genuine surprise that Lorelei and Agatha weren't at the League, or that Lance was the current acting Champion, or that characters like Will or Karen existed. While it would have been hilariously easy for people to spoil us back then ... it just ... didn't happen. Somehow. It honestly baffles me even to this day. None of the explanations for it are adequate. But the fact of the matter is, most of us have very fond memories of being surprised by what lay to the east of the Tohjo Falls. It's a shared experience that you'll find the vast majority of older fans remarking on when they reminisce about Gen 2. So somehow, we all managed to avoid getting spoiled despite the games having already been out in Japan for quite some time.

Gen 3:
  • Kecleon was debuted in the anime pretty early
  • we knew about the starters this time once they were revealed for Japan, never mind for us
  • when images of Groudon and Kyogre first leaked, we were certain they were fakemon because they (especially Groudon) looked much too much like Digimon. At the time we saw Groudon, the third season of Digimon had just come out in America. Groudon reminded a lot of us of Guilmon, the main character's partner Digimon in that series. I remember us being later surprised to learn that they were real. This would have had to have happened some time after September 2001 (start date of Digimon Tamers in the US). More specifically, I remember us discussing it on Kuno's UPN here ... so I suppose that would place it some time around 2002? Which is cutting it pretty close to the actual release date of the games in Japan, November 2002. There had to have been enough of a window that we were all posting on Kuno's UPN but that we also didn't have confirmation that Groudonmon and Kyogremon were legitimate Pokémon.
  • I think I remember them revealing Prof. Birch pretty early.
  • We were probably introduced to Poochyena pretty early, I feel like.
  • Maybe the Wurmple line too? Wingull? Shroomish? These all feel like they were revealed in the lead-in to RuSa's release state-side.
I don't recall how much we knew about Abilities beforehand. I don't recall how much we knew about Natures. We probably knew that the games were hard incompatible with Gens 1 and 2 and that you couldn't trade your guys over. We probably knew about Teams Magma and Aqua, maybe? Seems probable. The Internet was getting more like what we know today, so it's hard to imagine we didn't know a lot of these basic things. That stated ... regarding Steven Stone, I seem to remember calling it from gameplay that he would prove to be the Champion of this region, and/or being pleasantly surprised when it was confirmed. I do not remember knowing in advance that he for sure was. So once again, big endgame plot spoilers were pretty easy to avoid in the early 2000s provided you weren't looking for them.

Gen 4:
  • pretty similar to what you know the pre-release cycle to be like today
  • they revealed a crapton of Pokémon ahead of time
  • they showed us a map of the region
  • similar to Steven, I remember being intrigued by Cyrus during gameplay and wondering what his deal was; and being particularly confused once Cynthia was introduced, as this man I had mistaken for Champion could not be Champion if she also was, and thus ... is he the villain? :O ; so like ... I feel like we may not have known that Akagi/Cyrus was the boss of Team Galactic, or that if we did it wasn't something so well advertised that you'd be spoiled on it even if you were just minding your own business on UPN
  • I don't recall seeing Cynthia prior to seeing her in the game itself
  • I don't recall it being more than mere speculation in Summer 2007 that Giratina would prove to be super important and be like the Rayquaza of his region, so I'm guessing that Platinum-related spoilers from Japan were at a minimum back then
Gen 4, in hindsight, was where I first started to feel like they were revealing too much of the PokéDex ahead of time. I didn't notice this until after Gen 5. At the time, I was pretty open to all spoilers outside of plot-related ones, and I read the same CoroCoro scans that you all did and do.

Gen 5:
  • exactly what you know today
  • if Gen 4 wasn't the start of it, Gen 5 was definitely the start of the modern era of "LET'S REVEAL ALL THE THINGS! "
  • they revealed Team Plasma, Ghetsis, and N ahead of time
  • Bianca, Cheren, and the player protags ahead of time
  • Juniper and Fennel
  • Fennel's Dream World schtick
  • Zekrom, Reshiram, and the genies
  • knowledge that Team Plasma was basically PokéPETA
  • almost every single new Pokémon
  • pretty sure we had the Elite Four this time around (might've been the first time they were spoiled pre-release), with discussion especially focused on Caitlin's presence
  • if they didn't reveal infinite-use TMs ahead of time, we learned about it shortly after the games' Japanese release
  • we knew that Unova would feature only Unovan Pokémon. (I think they did keep the lid on the secret about postgame availability of older Pokémon until the games were out in Japan, but perhaps I'm wrong about this.)
And from there you know the rest. Gen 6's pre-release is just like Gen 5's, maybe even worse, and Gen 7's is just like Gen 6's. Lots of complaints about too much of the Dex being spoiled ahead of time. Lots of complaints about too many major characters being shown too soon.

It would be wrong to say that Western fans have ever been in a privileged position where they could not be spoiled on all the game's surprises. The first time we ever had a worldwide release was Gen 6, by which point in time Game Freak was in full swing giving away all the games' secrets during pre-release. Gen 5 on back, Japan would get the game months to years before us and that allowed us to get spoiled, potentially, on every single little detail before we could play the games ourselves.

That stated, we were fortunate enough not to be spoiled too badly during those early years, mostly Gens 2 and 3, even though it would have been super easy for a Japanese-American fan to do so. I don't recall any forum-wide bans on spoilers in older gens, either with Jaxel's UPN (hell no, we didn't ban spoilers! ) or on Kuno's UPN (don't think we really tested this out until Gen 5). The Internet ... was simply a very different place back then, for a Pokémon fan.

Gen 4, I would say in hindsight, was "the beginning of the end". Gen 4 iirc they gave away a ton of Pokémon and people ahead of time. Also, through no fault of TPCi's, because the Gen 4 games had already come out in Japan a year before they came out in the States, I seem to recall that when we got the games that spring I already had full access via Serebii to Torterra's, Empoleon's, and Infernape's looks and stats. (Not to mention all of the other Pokémon's.)

Gen 5 is really, without any shadow of a doubt, when Game Freak and The Pokémon Company began to give away everything during pre-release. I feel like earlier gens may have established the pattern before this point, but I remember during the Gen 5 pre-release season for certain that from May 2010 all the way on up until the games' Japanese release date of September 18, 2010, every month came with its own set of big news spoilers. May was the three starters ... other months would spoil geography, characters, and of course more Pokémon ... But yeah, Gen 5 was really when the modern era of, "Each month, every month, from now until the games come out, we're going to be dropping spoiler bombs" began for me. It was definitely when I first took notice of it.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:49 PM   #35
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I feel like Dusk Lycanroc is less along the lines of Ash-Greninja and more along the lines of Mega Blaziken (in X/Y) or Pulverizing Pancake. I don't know this for a fact, but based on previous giveaways, it's always that the special thing that the giveaway is meant to, well, give away, isn't tied to the specific Pokémon that's being distributed, but rather whatever comes with it. The Blazikenite distribution in X/Y came with a Torchic. That didn't mean that you could only get Mega Blaziken by evolving that specific Torchic and giving it Blazikenite. Likewise, evolving the event Munchlax was not the only way to get a Snorlax that could pull off Pulverizing Pancake. They just gave you those Pokémon along with the items as kind of a, "Oh, by the way, here's a Pokémon to go with that cool new item. Evolve it and it can use the item!"

My theory- this Rockruff is getting distributed with some sort of item that will allow you to evolve any Rockruff of your choosing into Dusk Lycanroc. Hoping it'd be a reusable item of some sort, personally. But yeah- my gut feeling is that it's not gonna be restricted to just this specific Rockruff, but rather, the event itself lets you evolve Rockruff into Dusk Lycanroc whenever you like.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that tying Dusk Lycanroc to a limited time event seriously sucks, but hey, if I'm right, then at least we'll have a bit more flexibility in how we can get Dusk Lycanroc. We'd be able to breed a decent Rockruff instead of resetting and praying for one that doesn't totally suck.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:37 PM   #36
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There is seriously a simple way they could have introduced Dusk Lycanroc in the games: Evolve your Rockruff between 6 and 7 PM (or whichever hour Dusk happens in game. Hell, even make it the last 5 minutes before it becomes dark!)
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:54 PM   #37
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There is seriously a simple way they could have introduced Dusk Lycanroc in the games: Evolve your Rockruff between 6 and 7 PM (or whichever hour Dusk happens in game. Hell, even make it the last 5 minutes before it becomes dark!)
That could be how it happens in future games. I doubt Dusk Lycanroc will be event-exclusive forever. Just look at Blazikenite. And the Rotom forms, for that matter.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #38
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Alright, so the recent update on the official site seems to debunk my theory, and suggest that the event Rockruff is indeed the only one that can become Dusk Lycanroc, at least in these games (like I said, I'm willing to bet Dusk Lycanroc will lose its event exclusivity in future games, like the Rotom forms or the Blazikenite did). Thus, I might reconsider using Dusk Lycanroc on my ingame team, because I'd be more likely to hold off on SRing for it until I've unlocked the IV checker, get one that's good competitively. And even then, I might try to get the competitive one in the version that won't be my main version instead so I could use it ingame after all. I don't know, haven't decided yet.
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