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Old 10-22-2013, 08:17 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Kindrindra View Post
But... Snarl doesn't get priority from Prankster, so you would still be going second. I've heard of Calm Mind, but...


The idea in Mystical Fire is that you get in some decent damage, drop their spatk, laugh as their attack bounces off you, and then go for the KO with Fire Blast. This is of course assuming that you can't normally OHKO them with Fire Blast if you can do that then just do that. But in other instances it's very useful, breaking Sashes at the same time as reducing the foe's damage output. Normally stat-down moves serve as a kind of psudo-phazing, causing your opponent to switch out to negate the debuff so you can't set up on their weakened 'mon. But, as Mystical Fire also deals damage, they don't get off scott-free anymore; It's very much a bulky offense maneuver.
You've basically proved why Snarl is good on Sableye. Calm Mind is vulnerable to Taunt, while Snarl can be used on the switch to really screw up an opponent because they almost always switch to a special attacker.

Also, Delphox doesn't have the room.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:19 AM   #77
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Except Delphox has base 104 speed. Sableye has 50.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:20 AM   #78
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Except Delphox has base 104 speed. Sableye has 50.
I've found it really doesn't matter. When you switch Sabelye in, 99% of people switch in a special attacker.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:24 AM   #79
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Ah, I see, you meant as to weaken the incoming switch. Fair enough.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #80
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Ah, I see, you meant as to weaken the incoming switch. Fair enough.
Yeah, and once that happens, Sableye is nearly always in Recover range anyways so it really helps to increase his longevity.

And I'd be more inclined to agree with Mystical Fire if Delphox didn't want to run Fire Blast / Psyshock / Calm Mind / Grass Knot / Shadow Ball as well. There really isn't a faster switch-in that Delphox can handle with Mystical Fire.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:47 AM   #81
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I was surprised that Delphox didn't get Dazzling Gleam. That would pretty much round off the moveset. Also, a question.

Comparing Victini and Delphox, who do you think will make more of a mark? Victini pretty much sits in upper UU/lower OU. Do you think with a decent speed, special attack and special defense Delphox will make it that high?
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:49 AM   #82
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I doubt it. Mostly because Delphox doesn't get V-Create or Bolt Strike.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #83
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Just noticed that Delphox doesn't get Focus Blast. It is now hard countered by Houndoom unless you use HP Fighting.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:08 AM   #84
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Delphox is hopelessly outclassed by Victini and Chandelure. Even in RU it will have a difficult time due to Entei and Moltres being so supreme, and being able to do sod-all to Slowking and Drudiggon.

Delphox in its own doesn't sit at a noticeable speed tier. It has issues with Pokemon like Tyranitar. It physical defense is the lowest out of any starter released. This thing is going to be pretty good in NU, and at least decent in RU.

Yeah Delphox is shit for defense.

252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 211-250 (72.5 - 85.91%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #85
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>It physical defense is the lowest out of any starter released

Delphox' Base Def: 72
Infernape: 71
Blaziken: 70
Greninja: 67
Sceptile: 65
Emboar: 65

I think you may be wrong there, Blaze >>;

In other news, how do you think the change to Hidden Power will affect the metagame? Will a 60 BP coverage move be much good when most STAB neutral moves will deal more damage than a 2x SE hit, or will people just run it to hit things like Scizor and Ferrothorn for a 4x blow?
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:17 PM   #86
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Except I'm not Dave. Cause you forgot the HP stat:

Delphox: HP 75, Def 72
Infernape: HP 76, Def 71
Blaziken: HP 80, Def 70
Greninja: HP 72, Def 67
Sceptile: HP 70, Def 65
Embaor: HP 110, Def 65

Okay, well let me reword that. Lowest physical bulk out of any Fire starter released.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:23 PM   #87
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I think you'll find that 75/72 is physically bulkier than 76/71. :P

HP is in general what you want, but the damage formula lends slightly more importance to defense over HP, which makes sense, seeing as HP affects both categories of attack while the defenses are exclusive to one or the other.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:44 AM   #88
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Yeah you can't move the goalposts when someone says you're wrong :p
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #89
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Yeah you can't move the goalposts when someone says you're wrong :p
I worded it wrong in the first place.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:43 PM   #90
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Relicanth

Quote:
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In other news, how do you think the change to Hidden Power will affect the metagame? Will a 60 BP coverage move be much good when most STAB neutral moves will deal more damage than a 2x SE hit, or will people just run it to hit things like Scizor and Ferrothorn for a 4x blow?
Also it turns out Forest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat actually adds the respective type to the target.

...could be a way around Multiscale Dragonite! Forest's Curse on the switch, then swap out to something and murderise with an 8x Ice attack.

The above is not completely serious.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:57 PM   #91
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What I want to know about Forest Curse/Trick-o-Treat is if the effect wears off when the pokemon switches.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:19 PM   #92
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Does Soak?
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:27 PM   #93
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I don't... Think so, but Soak turns the target into a pure-water type while Forest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat simply add the type on top of what the pokemon already has.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:43 PM   #94
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So today in the Maison I learned that Frisk now checks the items of both opponents in a double battle. Will have to check if it does so for all three opponents in triples, because, well. That's almost a big deal.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:22 PM   #95
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There's a lot of chatter on /vp/ right now about Mega Gengar basically being uncounterable. Anyone have problems with that yet?
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:33 PM   #96
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Steel no longer resisting Ghost kinda made Gengar ridiculously good.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:51 PM   #97
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I fought one once and it swept me but that was before I had breed+IVed any 'mon so it was kinda a no-duh conclusion.

It occurs to me that Priority moves should still help to get the job done. Sucker Punch, Bullet Punch, Gale Wings BB, the like. The problem, of course, is that he can easily switch out of these while, after he Megas, you can't switch out of him.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:02 AM   #98
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Can MegaBanette OHKO with Shadow Sneak?
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:07 AM   #99
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MBanette and Chandy are probably the best counters right now. I think in practice, MBanette will be a useful enough support pivot (especially considering other Megas you might think are good aren't, like Garchomp) that it'll check MGengar.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:08 AM   #100
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It does, but Meganette can't freely switch in without fearing a ghost attack to the face. And that requires using up your Mega slot.

(That said, there are quite a few Megas which prove a problem to him. Megawile and her Sucker Punch is another good example.)


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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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