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Old 04-03-2014, 09:24 PM   #1
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Mozilla CEO Resigns amidst 'Gay Marriage' controversy

Interesting.

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Originally Posted by SFGate
Brendan Eich has stepped down after 11 days as chief executive of Mozilla, following criticism over a donation to the Proposition 8 campaign, which opposed gay marriage in California.

In a blog post announcing Eich’s resignation, the company that makes the Firefox browser explained that its organizational culture reflects diversity and inclusiveness. Eich made the decision to resign “for Mozilla and our community,” the post said.

Eich was named CEO on March 24. He co-founded the mozilla.org project in 1998 and was named CTO of the Mountain View-based nonprofit in 2005. Eich is the creator of JavaScript.

The Mozilla community quickly called for his resignation, pointing to a $1,000 donation he made in support of Proposition 8 in 2008:

'I'm an employee of @mozilla and cannot reconcile having @BrendanEich as CEO with our org's culture & mission. Brendan, please step down.'

'Have waited too long to say this. I'm an employee of @mozilla and I'm asking @brendaneich to step down as CEO.'

'Have waited too long to say this. I'm an employee of @mozilla and I'm asking @brendaneich to step down as CEO.'

Eich told the Guardian earlier this week that he would not resign over the backlash.

The future of Mozilla’s leadership is still being discussed. The company hopes to emerge from the recent controversy with “a renewed understanding and humility.”

“Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech,” the company wrote. “Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard.”

Online dating website OKCupid responded to Eich’s appointment by urging visitors to use a browser other than Firefox to visit its website. “Mozilla’s new CEO, Brendan Eich, is an opponent of equal rights for gay couples,” a message on the website read. “We would therefore prefer that our users not use Mozilla software to access OkCupid.”

Below, check out some CEOs who have received high approval ratings from their employees, according to a recent report from Glassdoor.
Source.

Obviously, it was Eich's final call and it was probably in the best interest of the company that he stepped down. As someone truly devoted to Mozilla's mission, it makes sense he'd take one for the team.

But it does raise a very interesting question about free speech and indignation. I'm a professional, so it's very easy for me to see the division between "professional" and "personal" attitudes, and I don't think Eich would use his position as CEO as a pulpit for arguing against same-sex marriage. This probably would have remained secret if it wasn't dug up by a political enemy and leaked to the public.

I actually find the idea that a company's employees must be ideologically indivisible and morally consistent to be offensive. You could easily say "this guy is a Republican" instead of the Prop 8 issue and the controversy is suddenly much more bigoted. That's the kind of madness that corrupted churches/religions and governments across the globe, and reduced their ability to solve problems. Differing opinions and viewpoints are not a bad thing so long as people have the self-restraint and ability to work together toward a common goal, or make sacrifices/suppress themselves if necessary.

I don't remember how I felt toward Prop 8 - I've always been a supporter of same-sex marriage, but I've always feared legalization of polygamy and was taught that same-sex marriage was nothing but a gateway issue to block that - but I wouldn't have banged the drums to get this guy kicked out of his seat. If not a proxy for political distaste, it reeks of intolerance.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:05 PM   #2
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He's stepped down by now, and there's not much that's going to bring him back.

I'm well-educated in politics, with a more intuitive grasp of professional relationships than most have. My parents both worked on the Hill and in the Pentagon at some point or another. Everything's political.

Let me give all you UPNers some advice that will help you in anything involving publicity, no matter if it's you becoming the new manager of your tiny firm or a Congressman or a President or a leader.

You know that thing you did that you hoped nobody would find out about?

They're going to find out about it.

Be transparent about EVERYTHING you've done that would cause a controversy. This lets you put your own angle on it, present positives, temper allegations, phrase it positively, and gives you initiative advantages; not only does it humanize you in the eyes of the public and of your subordinates, it ruins the political momentum of people who would very much like to expose you as a lying cheating filthy rat.

Imagine if Eich had been able to defend his position on gay marriage on his own terms. Sure, if he was a bigoted homophobe, he'd be out before he could say Boo. But if he was a reasonable human being with opinions that change over time, he could definitely work the situation to his advantage.

Because he didn't, and because Mozilla itself released those remarkably inflammatory statements, I'm willing to believe he was a bit of a dick about his personal views on gay marriage. But that's all conjecture, and there's a very real (50-50 I'd say) chance that he's playing the silent victim who doesn't seem to be allowed to hold a personal belief.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:21 PM   #3
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Good. When I heard about Mozilla's newest CEO and how he made a couple of his developers resign, I very seriously considered moving to Google Chrome but waited to see how it would play it. That's my view of this; if a CEO was against interracial marriage everyone would be up in arms. Why so quiet about him being anti-gay marriage?
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Good. When I heard about Mozilla's newest CEO and how he made a couple of his developers resign, I very seriously considered moving to Google Chrome but waited to see how it would play it. That's my view of this; if a CEO was against interracial marriage everyone would be up in arms. Why so quiet about him being anti-gay marriage?
I kind of suspected something like this was up, but I didn't research the topic that deeply. Disappointed to see my hunch was on. Doesn't really make be feel better because using "gay marriage" as an excuse to oust someone doesn't paint a pretty picture of the people doing the finger pointing.
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:38 AM   #5
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Orson Scott Card has received similar treatment for his anti-homosexual views. His books and the Ender's Game movie (which was terrible anyway) were boycotted because of it. Card was also dropped as a writer for Superman because the LGBT community felt his views did not match Superman's views of equality.

Even the game Shadow Complex was boycotted because of him. Card had no creative or monetary investment into any part of the game, nor did the game have any issues dealing with homosexuality. Card had merely been given the rights to novelize the game and this was enough for people to boycott it.

This isn't the first time nor do I think it would be the last.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:23 AM   #6
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I don't really see what his personal views on marriage has to do with his ability to run a company, nor am I comfortable with the idea that you have to have a certain set of political opinions before you can do business. Liberals getting a little fascist up in here.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:34 AM   #7
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Would you be fine if the CEO of a place you worked in thought that British people should not get married and actively supported this?

You can call me intolerant if you want, but if you have to tolerate intolerance to be called tolerant, then I'm perfectly fine with being called fascist because I refuse to use the products of a company headed by someone homophobic.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:39 AM   #8
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I really don't think he should have stepped down or been pressured to in the first place. Persecuting someone for their beliefs is only going to make them believe them stronger, not make them change.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Would you be fine if the CEO of a place you worked in thought that British people should not get married and actively supported this?
Yes absolutely I would for several reasons. Firstly, because whether he's CEO or not has absolutely no impact. Forcing this man to step down hasn't helped anything or anyone even the slightest bit. All it's achieved is to deny a man a job he earned. Secondly, because of what has to be a fundamental principle of being a decent person - acknowledging that you might be wrong. The injustices of the world have that one thing in common, that the people behind them believe so hard that they're right that they assume anything they do and say in pursuit of that belief cannot be wrong. It really doesn't matter what you believe, if you believe it so hard that you're willing to follow through all the logical consequences then you're a menace to society. Gay rights campaigners included. The people who've forced him to step down have crossed that line. They refuse so hard to accept even the possibility their viewpoint might not be perfectly correct that they're willing to do something which has helped no-one and hurt this guy. They've done something which has objectively only caused harm, because they're so fanatically fundamentalist that pursuing their beliefs is more important to them than the wellbeing of people.

Quote:
You can call me intolerant if you want, but if you have to tolerate intolerance to be called tolerant, then I'm perfectly fine with being called fascist because I refuse to use the products of a company headed by someone homophobic.
So don't use them. No-one's forcing you too. Also opposition to gay marriage and homophobia (that is, opposition to gay people) are worlds apart.
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Last edited by Concept; 04-04-2014 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:39 AM   #10
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Sorry, but IMO if you're against gay marriage then you're against gay people having equal rights as straight people, and that falls under opposition to gay people i.e homophobia.

And I don't see how you can say this has only harmed people given that quite a few users of Firefox were ready to boycott over the CEO. Now whether the boycott should have been done is another matter but the fact is that now those users will still continue using. Plus, it may boost the morales of gay employees. I know I'd feel pretty angry and disappointed if the CEO of my company was extremely racist.

Finally I absolutely disagree with you when it comes to considering you might be wrong in a question of civil rights. Do you consider you might be wrong when you're on the jury sentencing a man who's committed murders? Maybe it's just your warped sense of morality that says killing is wrong? You're theoretically under no obligation to follow the law when sentencing as a jury member(at least in America; not sure about the UK). At some point you have to draw the line, and the line isn't at the same place for everyone. I'm not, of course, saying that being anti-gay marriage is comparable to murder IN THE LEAST, but I'm simply pointing out that the people who pushed for him stepping down as CEO are perfectly justified. The fact that he did so is a huge credit to him, I will say that.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:37 AM   #11
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It would be a totally different case if this were something handled internally, but it immediately turned into a witch hunt, and since the CEO folded almost immediately, he prevented it from becoming an absolute shitshow.

This is totally the wrong way to handle people with bigoted beliefs. We shouldn't coddle them, but breaking down their doors with torches and pitchforks is the exact opposite of constructive.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Would you be fine if the CEO of a place you worked in thought that British people should not get married and actively supported this?

You can call me intolerant if you want, but if you have to tolerate intolerance to be called tolerant, then I'm perfectly fine with being called fascist because I refuse to use the products of a company headed by someone homophobic.
That dichotomy already exists with pretty much everything media or commercial. A lot of Hollywood actors/actresses for example are what most people would consider vile - vain, petty, egotistic, often hateful and rude. Someone like Tom Cruise - not only a nutcase because of Scientology, but a dangerous and rich one - is far more common than the saintly Red Skelton of olden times.

To me, it seems like Anti-Semitism and Anti-Homosexuality - two viewpoints against a lot of powerful people in Hollywood - irritate the powerful enough to exercise that power. Yeah, there are a lot of Jews in Hollywood. But we don't really know how powerful they are until they crucify a Mel Gibson. Homophobes like OSC who Loki mentioned better suppress their beliefs if they ever want to work in motion pictures again.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:46 AM   #13
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>Homophobes like OSC who Loki mentioned better suppress their beliefs if they ever want to work in motion pictures again.

Honestly, even if this is a world where we have no homophobia, it's not a world I want to live in. The standard it sets is frighteningly dystopian ("if your beliefs don't meet our moral standards, you shouldn't express them!"). I believe in free speech above most other things, and I think there's a way to have both equal rights and equal protections while still protecting the rights of people to express themselves and their beliefs.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:15 AM   #14
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I see no suppression of free speech. If you say something stupid and the world calls you out on your bullshit, that's not suppression of free speech. Just as he's free to donate money to Prop 8, I'm free to call him an asshole for doing that.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:18 AM   #15
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That's not what I'm saying.

This is a pretty tame example, because the head of Mozilla was so afraid of the angry mob that he removed himself from the situation before it could pick up too much steam.

The point is that it's indicative of a greater trend. The PC police have started in the business of censorship through shame. Instead of letting him justify why he might have made that (relatively small) donation and say his piece, he was run out of town without a single word to defend himself. I'm not defending him, his views or his actions, but he should have a chance to defend his beliefs. But the court of public opinion is a kangaroo court, and he never stood a chance.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:23 AM   #16
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Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm of the opinion that a world inhabited entirely by bigots and homophobes who're willing to be wrong would be a much better world than one filled with fundamentalists who agree with everything I think is right. The only people I'm not comfortable with sharing a world with are those who won't consider that their deeply held beliefs might be wrong - regardless of what those beliefs are. Every aspect of morality has been debated at different times in different cultures, between different political and even within the smallest subdivisions of those groups. How arrogant for anyone to dare assume they alone have got it right. How unbelievably condescending. Explaining our beliefs, defending our beliefs, acting and voting in accordance with our beliefs, fine. But the moment you refuse to let other people have their beliefs, the moment you're willing to ruin a mans career for literally no benefit to anyone, you're basically saying "no, I am right here. I am better than any other human who has ever lived. My opinion here, my morality, that trumps everyone who disagrees with me." I'm sorry, I do not hold to that.

I see no difference between what's happened here and running a black person or a gay person or a woman out of the same job. It's discrimination, it's persecution, and at different times people just as or more smart or kind or whatever else than you and I have discriminated against all manner of groups. By what right do we claim it's ok when we do it?

Quote:
And I don't see how you can say this has only harmed people given that quite a few users of Firefox were ready to boycott over the CEO. Now whether the boycott should have been done is another matter but the fact is that now those users will still continue using. Plus, it may boost the morales of gay employees. I know I'd feel pretty angry and disappointed if the CEO of my company was extremely racist.
That's their choice. No-one's forcing anything on them. Anyone who was going to boycott firefox over this is choosing that for themselves. And, frankly, if the opinion of your boss on something entirely unrelated to your work has even the slightest impact on your life you have serious self esteem problems and need professional help. It's very simple; had people let him be, had they ignored him and left him to his opinion no-one would've suffered for it in the slightest. Any damage that anyone has suffered here hasn't been caused by his opinion, it's been exclusively caused by the people who've proclaimed themselves in charge of morality for everyone else and run this man out of a job. In the middle ages it was the Catholic Church and other religious bodies with the audacity to persecute people and claim the moral high ground. These days it's fucking liberals. People like the ones who've acted here make me a little bit ashamed to support gay rights, in much the same way that monsters like Dawkins make me ashamed to be atheist and Fred Phelps made me a little ashamed to support civil rights (he was a civil rights activist in some pretty racist states when he was younger).

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Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
I see no suppression of free speech. If you say something stupid and the world calls you out on your bullshit, that's not suppression of free speech. Just as he's free to donate money to Prop 8, I'm free to call him an asshole for doing that.
And if that was all people were doing this would be fine. It's not. They're not settling for "calling him on his bullshit", they're actively ruining an innocent mans career for zero benefit.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:29 AM   #17
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I see no difference between what's happened here and running a black person or a gay person or a woman out of the same job. It's discrimination, it's persecution, and at different times people just as or more smart or kind or whatever else than you and I have discriminated against all manner of groups. By what right do we claim it's ok when we do it?
Unfortunately, this is what popular social justice has become. If you're not a part of the protected classes (i.e. non-straight, non-white, non-cis, etc.), you're free game for any sort of discrimination. This isn't a universal philosophy shared by all social justice groups or social justice proponents, but it's becoming a message that's being shouted from the rooftops of the Internet and disseminated in bastions of liberal ideology. And oftentimes, it's based on something good and well-meaning. There are also a lot of social justice groups that raise awareness and serve to educate people, but these are also the groups that choose not to shout the loudest, so their messages are drowned out by the inflammatory screams that the new generation of bigots have been breeding.

I made a post about this trend in the tumblr thread that still sit somewhere in this forum describing just what these kinds of people are doing and how it's detrimental to the causes they claim to support. I think that this is another instance of the trickle up of this no-tolerance-for-intolerance attitude that's been developing.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:32 AM   #18
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By what right do we claim it's ok when we do it?
By the rights that his homophobia is a choice, and being black, or gay, is not.

It seems here we have a very strong ideological difference, Cept. It's fine if that's what you believe, but I have to disagree: I don't want to live in a world of bigots. I'm perfectly fine living in a world where being against the oldest civil right- the equality of all human beings- is looked down upon. I'm perfectly fine living in a world where moral superiority is taken. Because at the end of the day, it exists. And at the end of the day, my core belief is still strong: You can do all you want, as long as you cause no intentional harm to others. And the moment you do that, you face the consequences.

Has this man lost his career? I doubt it. Good businessmen do not lose their careers so easily. Was it an overreaction? Absolutely not. If the majority of your customer base is extremely liberal and your CEO takes a position that's utterly against one of the core liberal stances, you expect trouble.

But like I said at the very beginning, our very ideology is different. So I don't think a real debate is possible.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:35 AM   #19
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BI'm perfectly fine living in a world where being against the oldest civil right- the equality of all human beings- is looked down upon. I'm perfectly fine living in a world where moral superiority is taken.
But these two are fundamentally contradictory. The moment you have moral superiority, you assign yourself the position of being better than other people. Equality of humans and moral superiority and completely incompatable.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:37 AM   #20
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I disagree. Moral superiority means that when it comes to one moral issue you take the stand that there is no debate, on this one issue you are right, and he is wrong. And you have to take that stand at one point, like I said earlier. It does not mean you are superior to the human being as a whole. John Lennon abused his wife; I can claim moral superiority over that, but am I going to claim I'm better than him? Never. All I'm claiming is that on one particular issue, he's done something wrong.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:42 AM   #21
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This is getting a little Animal Farm-y and I don't like it.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:39 PM   #22
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...I'm incredibly confused as to why nobody has pointed out that this donation was SIX YEARS AGO. People change, and without his exact statement on the matter it's not entirely possible to know how he feels about any of this.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:01 PM   #23
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It could have been 20 years ago and people would still bring it up.

And just to bring this to point, these events are linked only to homophobia. It can be any kind of controversy.

In recent memory, my former-congressman (like the one I actually live in and have voted for) Anthony Weiner was caught having extra-marital affairs after he sent photos of himself through his cellphone. Did these affairs cause him to be a bad congressman? Did he vote for the wrong bills or not try and help his political party or the district? No. He just fucked some women who weren't his wife. He was basically forced to step down.

Before that, my state's governor was found in a VIP list of a brothel. They found out which woman it was, they put all the information they could find about onto the news and internet. He stepped down. Did this extra marital affair hurt the state? Yes. Because his deputy took over and that blind idiot did a lot of shit wrong.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:57 PM   #24
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Perhaps relevant: a lot of people love Steve Harvey's hosting of Family Feud, but one commenter notes that Harvey is known for his evangelical views on homosexuality, i.e. he believes it is a sin. I don't see many people demanding that Steve Harvey quit Family Feud else they boycott watching the show. Granted, it's Family Feud, not the Mozilla Corporation. But still. Do non-Republicans demand Pat Sajak be fired from Wheel of Fortune because he's a hardcore Republican who has donated personal time and money to Republican causes? Do non-Christians demand that Francis Collins resign from his position as director of the NIH because his Christian faith informs his life choices? No Yes but religious and non-religious scientists alike tend to get very angry with those people.

I think part of the problem here is that denying homosexuals equality with heterosexuals is something which has only recently become socially unacceptable to a majority of our society (particularly amongst the youth). It muddies the waters of this news story for many, making it difficult for them to decide whether Concept is closer to the right interpretation or Rangeet is. We wouldn't be blasé about a CEO who was convicted of supporting causes so horrible they're illegal (e.g. slavery) -- we would want him out of office. But we also wouldn't be blasé about a CEO was found guilty of harboring very innocent views that differ from our own (e.g. he thinks N*SYNC was an excellent band) -- we would go in the opposite direction, being very opposed to people demanding he resign simply for holding private views which differ from their own.

I personally tend towards Concept's way of thinking but I do find it hard to justify to my LGBT friends why it's okay to feel that way in this particular instance but not in instances where the CEO might have been found guilty of donating money to something which is illegal. Laws change -- if you believe in moral absolutism, the inherent morality or immorality of an action should not. That means that it isn't sufficient to say "So long as it's legal today, then it's okay for the man to remain in office." What if today's illegalities become tomorrow's legalities? What if today's legalities become tomorrow's illegalities? Mind, I don't believe in stringent moral absolutism, but moral relativists are a dime a dozen on forums like ours, so ... ^^;
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:11 PM   #25
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I'm with Concept and Jeri here. I've no problem calling a homophobe an asshole, and if he/she is in a position to affect public policy and I have a vote in it, I won't be voting for them, but this is a CEO of a corporation. He was an asshole, he donated money to anti-gay efforts. And? He's not spewing hate, he's not WBC. He merely donated a small amount to something he supported. Sure, I don't like that he did it, but at the same time, I celebrate his right to anyway. Let's not get crazy with political correctness. He's saying things that incite riots, he's not saying gays are inferior. He just supported a belief of his, and fairly quietly at that.

As for opposing gay marriage, I've known some of my gay brethren that oppose gay marriage, for several different reasons. Some truly do see it as a religious institution that they do not want to intrude upon, while others think that heterosexuals have already fucked up the concept of marriage and it no longer means anything anyway, so there's no reason to fight for it. Some feel that gay relationships are intrinsically different than heterosexual ones, and, indeed, many many gay couples I have met have open relationships, and a fair few are open to polyamory. Some think this means we as homosexuals should not have to try to conform to heterosexual standards.
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