FB:UPN Changes 2017

[Princess Ana]

I'm pretty against a mandatory, forum-wide hard reset. In my opinion, its a great way to drive away a number of members from FB, including ones that are very active in FB like M.M., while not really guaranteeing anything otherwise. FB has been around for a very long time, and many members here are coming close on to five years. A lot of people have Pokemon that they've bonded with. It's not just "fond two years of leaving them in the Daycare" its adventures in zones (however sparse), its free RP in places like the Bar or Secret Bases, and its writing made in the Visionary Glade. While I know this must sound ridiculous to people like Loki, free RP has basically been where all the passionate FBers have been the last couple of years, and those are the ones we stand to most lose by erasing everything they've done.

I say this as a person who is already going to hard reset myself for multiple reasons. I have no skin in this game. I have nothing to gain by going against this. I just feel, for the merits it does have, its going to be an overwhelmingly negative change.

[Escalion]

I've given a lot of things a bit more thought, a lot of things that have been said I can get behind, so I'm not going to go deeper into that as I'd only be parroting general consensus that's already there. But there are some things I like to voice my opinion on, starting with a reply to this:

Originally Posted by Connor

Bluntly the community is not unbiased. There can and will be votes which end up being won on popularity rather than legitimate qualification. The proposed system reduces this to the minimum.

ASB is not entirely comparable but in this it is. The power structure there works absolutely fine. The power structure here will work absolutely fine. What you're asking for is a glorified clerical assistant, what we need is a community leader.

Originally Posted by Sneaze

So I'm just going to say now that I 100% agree with Connor here, but everyone should be allowed to state their argument.

So, Esca, for the sake of argument, where would these glorified clerks fit into the power tree? Note that if they fall below ZAs/SOs (which granted their amount of work, they logically should), the argument becomes why are we not giving those powers to ZAs/SOs and calling it a day. Heck, the same argument stands true for if they were for some reason on the same rung of power. And the clear problem here is that it has already been stated that we will not be allowed that many people with moderation plwers. So, the only place left is on top, but putting someone with so few responsibilities above those that would be assuming all the other roles of leadership is nonsensical. As such, it just makes most sense to have a small group of proper moderators with the most power but *also* the most responsibility and highest amount of possible ways to keep power in check, as the top rung.

Let me start with saying that I don't understand where this notion comes from that the mod must be the community leader. In case it is forgotten what "mod" is an acronym for; it's forum moderator. And a moderator first and foremost has to have some idea of what he or she is doing at the back end as to not mess up the section they moderate. A moderator is a cleric in that sense. They serve the section they moderate by keeping it neat and tidy, make stickies and what not, and throw out rotten apples when needed.

Related to FB I for one am very much in favor of cutting the moderator completely loose from community's power structure. Personally I think the future ZA's and SO's are enough as highest power, but if everyone wants a few people on top of that I can accept that. I never really had a problem with the structure that was in place anyways, but rather with its execution.

Everyone can make a thread all over the section, we don't need leaders with moderator powers for that. And I think that the community leaders and mods being separate powers would solve a lot of potential problems. The dedicated FB mod can just do his or her moderating business and should, power wise, only answer to the higher ups of UPN itself like Kuno and Jeri. The mod can still be part of FB as a member, but should imho fall outside its internal power structure.


Next topic: Shops.

Most things I've read I'm all fine with. E.g. the combining or the move related shops and shopping shops, and what's been said about the cable club (keep trading), the daycare and the other "Monday shops". But there's some other shops I like to mention too.

Egg House and Adoption Center: I for one want to KEEP them. Be it in its current form or another, I don't care too much about that, but I want to keep them in some form. Let's not kid ourselves and think that now Tess has stepped down that we'll see updates all over the place every week or two, we won't. And for new members the first thing they want is to build on their team, one Pokémon isn't much to work with and to have to wait half a year or longer before a Pokémon can be added to your team is very discouraging and simply just no fun.

Additionally, without the AC and Egg House, it'll a more difficult to get the Pokémon you want. Which I don't like personally most of my current Pokémon have been hand picked because I like them, and as Talon said: "I don't want to be asked let alone told, "Open your heart to ____ and have fun with it. " No, thanks, I really would rather be adventuring with ___ right now."

Casino: Keep it in some form to have some extra way to gather income to purchase stuff with. Actually, a simplified current form would work just fine for me actually. I for one am absolutely against everything requiring mandatory RP.

Breeding Center: Keep it and severely lower the restrictions on it. As far as I care it can be lowered to the point is in the games, e.g. every ingame capable Pokémon should be able to breed. At some costs obviously, and not unlimited, but those details can be filled in later I guess.


On moves: I think every move a Pokémon can learn ingame in the current generation and every earlier generation should be available not nothing more. I'm not a fan of opening up every TM's for every Pokémon, though if it would be voted on I'd probably abstain rather than vote against. Personally I'd rather have Custom moves play a bigger role, much to how MM has described it. I like the idea of a UPC like Custom Move event.


On RP: As mentioned, I for one am not in favor of having mandatory RP for everything. So please no coins zone and hatch zone and what not for silly zones that require even more people to keep things running around here. If you want to RP such things, the option to do so has always been there already...

And I think we should set a hard limit on how many updates an adventure can last, so the updater can plan the adventure within that frame, and an updatee knows what he or she can expect too. Other than that, there's not much wrong with what we already have so just keep all that I guess.


On a hard reset: If mandatory: No, just no. Do what you want with your character and Pokémon, but I like to keep mine just as it is.


And that's it with my opinions for now.

[Loki]

Firstly, I'll state again, I've not been an active member in almost a decade, so don't take my opinions as an absolute fact. I know my own viewpoint of Fizzy Bubbles is quite different from other people's but I also feel that we need multiple viewpoints and outside thinking to really ensure this is the new Fizzy Bubbles that is fun and fresh and not the exact same thing but with different administrators.

Originally Posted by Gemini Spark

I'm really not a fan of a forced global reset. From an RP standpoint, one of the problems I can see with it is, because it puts everyone on the same level as each other, there aren't any veteran PCs with high-level Pokemon to interact with, not for a while at least. And one of the reasons I was drawn into FB in the first place was because of players like Balmund, MM, and Marion Ette, all with high-level Pokemon and trainers that had (mostly) fleshed out personalities and characteristics that were fun to engage and discover for myself. Take that away, and those characters are not the same at all. At that point, I personally would feel a little obligated to "reacquaint" myself with those characters when 1) my character wouldn't have that big of a reason to do so, and 2) even if he did, it wouldn't feel the same.

Being a veteran of Fizzy Bubbles with 4 Pokemon at level 5 or 100 Pokemon at level 100 doesn't change their ability to roleplay. Marion Ette can roleplay with a dirty sock puppet and snuffed cigarette butts better than most people with a complete Pokedex. Your own imagination and creativity are what makes the game fun, not the mountain of gold or the armies of pets you have.

There's nothing stopping your from making a personality for your Pokemon even at level 1 or level 50. Do human babies at 3 months old have no personality? If you make a new character for a D&D session, does he start as a soulless robot and somehow become a full fledged sentience after he hits level 20? I sure hope not. While you might not fully know how you might want to mold a character's personality when you first get them, you eventually develop them over time. It's a skill you as a player develops. All of your Pokemon are extensions of yourself. They're not extensions of the game.

Remember, Fizzy Bubbles is a game built on the contents of the player base. Modship didn't create your Sneasel's personality when you chose it as a starter. You did. You made up your Pokemon's quirks, their likes, their dislikes, their sense of honor and justice or their lack of thereof. This is all your own skill and you need to realize it's yours forever. You don't need a registration post with big set of numbers and long list of items to be a great roleplayer like Balmund or MM or Marion Ette.

Originally Posted by Gemini Spark

Another big issue I have is that a global reset would erase all the progress and adventures my character made with his Pokemon...and everything that goes with them. Moves, evolutions, and the character development that may have been associated with specific instances of them happening, all of that would be gone, and everyone would just feel gutted. At that point, I might as well make a completely new character, which is something I'd feel bad doing after everything that I accomplished here. Obviously, not everyone feels this way, and in some cases they would much rather reset and make a new character, and that's their choice, but it isn't a choice I would like to make.

I'm very sorry to tell you this, but this whole game's collection system amounts to absolutely nothing. It's a hard truth and it sounds awful because of the countless hours and devotion from the players, but it's all text that someone says is yours and is nothing but a collection of words and numbers on a forum. I could just as easily say that I own 10,000,0000,0000 gold bricks in my basement, but that doesn't mean I'm rich.

What we should take away from Fizzy Bubbles and almost all roleplaying games isn't the insane loot we have stockpiled away in our MoneyBins, but the experiences we've had while playing the game and the friends you make while playing. The adventures where you saved a Charmander from drowning in a river and he became your best friend. Then you worked together and he finally becomes a Charizard and helped you stop the evil Kyurem from freezing the planet is a memory worth having. But the memory of you dropping off your Phanpy into the shops 200 different weeks and came out as a Donphan with all of its various parameters set at maximum shouldn't be special.

Maybe I'm an old man. Maybe no one wants story about adversity and overcoming challenges and earning their greatness. Maybe everyone wants Cookie Clicker and just click each week and get a biggest number ever.

[Nerd Violence]

Here is my very personal POV on a hard reset:

My Mandibuzz, Palaho, is meant to be a maternal figure to my Vullaby, Kauka. Given the high level (54) at which Vullaby is to evolve, it would pretty much mean I couldn't have that character again, as both Pokémon would be in my possession for years before I could evolve one again. One couldn't possibly mother the other after having known each other as peers for years. Could I re-characterize my Pokémon? Yes. Am I willing to? Very, very begrudgingly. Do I want to? Absolutely not.

A hard reset is potentially asking people to scrap characters, due to dynamics between individuals. It's not a fun time.

[Meetan]

Originally Posted by Loki

Maybe I'm an old man. Maybe no one wants story about adversity and overcoming challenges and earning their greatness. Maybe everyone wants Cookie Clicker and just click each week and get a biggest number ever.

Maybe you're condescending. Maybe you need to realise we can have a balance of role play and outside factors like most Pokemon forums do. Maybe you need to simmer down a bit bc right now you're irritating a lot of people by giving a valid opinion in a shitty way and stomping on everyone else's. Maybe it's Maybelline.

[Raves]

Originally Posted by Loki

Maybe I'm an old man. Maybe no one wants story about adversity and overcoming challenges and earning their greatness. Maybe everyone wants Cookie Clicker and just click each week and get a biggest number ever.

holy fuck loki you don't even realise how much you sound like tess right now

There's something to say about those who don't want their countless hours of weekly chores to go to waste, and those who don't care for them either way. Personality of a pokemon is paramount, regardless of them being level 1 or 6000. What does it matter the method by which a pokemon gets their stats and movepools, if it means the RPer has more choice in their utility.

Could I just say how rich it is that you're saying about a hard reset being the best option and your pig-headed hypocrisy at saying that "it's all text that someone says is yours and is nothing but a collection of words and numbers on a forum." You may be one of the founders of this game, but that doesn't give you the right to be a know-it-all cunt about the way people play the game or otherwise.

There's also the fact that some people aren't as skilled at roleplaying as the likes of Marion or MM, and who see the whole shop culture thing as a method by which to give themselves more options to roleplay with. Hell, we're discussing how to fix the shop culture problem and making the game an actual RP rather than some facebook post-by-post chore system, and are milling around the idea of optional resets. Even though the veterans benefitted from shop culture, it doesn't mean we're not good roleplayers and can use the experience to show newcomers what not to do.

So unless you're willing to return to this game, and are accepting of other people's ideas rather than being a grumpy old git who says things should run this way like the old mods did, then I strongly advise you to keep your opinions to yourself and not to speak to others who want to make this second chance work in the same manner that a smarmy landlord does to the slightly scruffy young man who just moved out of his parent's house. And don't ever compare what others gained from a bad system to a mindless, dull waste of programming like cookie clicker when it was not our fault that we had to follow under archaic rules by folk who stubbornly refused to change the game for the better.

[Jerichi]

Alright guys let's all collectively bring it down a bit.

I think there is some very good reasons for wanting a reset but it seems to be the prevailing opinion that a game-wide reset is not in the best interest of the community.
It might be a good idea to allow for some optional resets or some partial resets (maybe allowing vets to delevel their 'mons or something) but it's not really worth starting fights over. How about we all move on for now?

[BLEU]

Well, on the topic of hard-reset, I think it's a very good point, what it does is makes new people like me a lot more comfortable, feeling at the same level as anyone else. But, again the reason why most people are against it is because they've developed bonds with their Pokemon. Or, maybe, the hard work, and the patience and the time they put into getting the Pokemon they have, where they have it was long, and it was probably a grind, every Monday, collect things and insert and copy-paste thousands of links, which is a lot of time, and I think most people would not want that time to go waste. Some people may even have some certain shiny/special Pokemon with special move or something and may not wanna let go of it. There could be endless possibilities why somebody may not want to reset. So, as much as it seems like a good idea, it'll be a terrible waste of time for those who have done it for years and then to lose it all in a second.

[Nerd Violence]

Oh shit, that's what I get for not reading backlogs and replying to stuff during a brief waking spell at 3am. By hard reset we mean every starts over completely? I assumed we were talking about a reset to all level ones.

Disregard my previous post, that's what I get for assuming. Y'all are going to have to deal with me guys, I'm at the start of week two of four of tapering up the dosage on a fairly heavy duty medication and I'm only semi-lucid for a good portion of the day. If for any reason I'm a dumbass in this -- or any other -- thread, I beg you to chalk it up to "Tate's loopy on the pills again" and kindly disregard me. I've actually been trying to stay out of proceedings because I don't feel cognitively equipped to hold a discussion right now.

Anyway, sorry to derail the conversation. Getting back into the topic, as someone with few Pokémon, I could live with a soft reset to Lv. 1, maybe, though it isn't what I want.

To be honest, I didn't really want to see FB change that much. I just wanted zones to be more active, maybe the shops get overhauled a little. I thought we'd be slapping some new upholstery and a fresh coat of paint on a place, and it turns out we're ripping it down to the studs and I'm honestly overwhelmed.

(P.S. I'm on mobile so forgive odd autocorrects.)

[Jerichi]

I honestly think that when it comes down to it, FB won't end up looking all that much different than it does now. Just more.. active.

[Princess Ana]

FB will likely go through some changes that bring the focus back to RP; many of us won't be happy with the game until it is. We're definitely some of the most passionate people when it comes to RP that FB has ever seen; the adversity and challenges that a broken system gave us didn't stop many of us from finding a way to RP, finding a way to develop characters, finding a way to bond with other members and become a tight-knit community. FB isn't going to be burned down to the ground and rebuilt, but changed, fixed, in a way that removes many of the obstacles to RP we faced before. Essentially.

[Missingno. Master]

Originally Posted by Emi

We're definitely some of the most passionate people when it comes to RP that FB has ever seen; the adversity and challenges that a broken system gave us didn't stop many of us from finding a way to RP, finding a way to develop characters, finding a way to bond with other members and become a tight-knit community.

This is very true. When opportunities to RP were few and far between, I got creative. I started posting little stories in my Visionary Glade thread to show when certain Pokémon of mine evolved. I RP shop posts. I RP trades, and not always as trades, either. Look at the trades where I obtained my Weavile (as a Sneasel), my Swirlix, my Shiny Beautifly, and my Starmie. I got them all from trades, but as far as my character is concerned, he witnessed the Sneasel hatch from the one Egg from his nest to survive a rockslide in the Clawmark Mountain Range. He caught the Swirlix that was wreaking havoc at the site of a baking competition in Pechagrove Town. He battled, wore down, and caught the vicious, bloodthirsty Shiny Beautifly whose tendency to exsanguinate any intruders earned her the nickname "The Vampire of Cadaver Forest". He rescued the Starmie that had been kept prisoner by Team Rocket in a cave that served as their base of operations on Stargazer Island, teamed up with it to take on Team Rocket, and caught it afterwards. I took the Adoption Center post in which I released my Unfezant, and RP'd it to not only get some character development for my Crobat in there, but also used it to set up a couple of Visionary Glade posts as well.

[Loki]

Sorry I got heated, it was late and I'm obviously passionate about the legacy of this game.

Unfortunately, if the game is mostly the same, then the game will generally be in the exact same spot it is now. There's no incentive for players to go on adventures and roleplay their Pokemon fantasies. That's a bunch of work that you can entirely avoid by visiting a shop every week for the next ten years.

Fizzy Bubbles was built entirely on the backs of players. If we can't bring in new players then it will continue to sit in squalor. And having a playerbase of ancient wyrms sitting under a mountain of gold is intimidating for both new players and updaters.

If someone has very little when they're playing the game, whatever Pokemon they encounter will likely be one they will want to try to catch it, just simply because they don't have much. This affords them new opportunities to roleplay with that Pokemon if they decide to keep it, even if temporarily. And it also pushes them into trying something new. Maybe you catch that Vulpix you didn't really have on a wishlist. Maybe you end up liking it. Maybe you win a few fights with it and realize you've give her a personality and now she's a valued member of your team. Or not, it's up to the player.

But if you have EVERYTHING already, what will you do when you enter a zone and run into another Wooper? Who cares, you have a Quagsire already. Do you run around the zone curbstomping every poor creature you encounter? Sorry but as a former updater, that just sounds absolutely awful. Without resorting to cheating with legendaries or having some super unfair advantage to the updater in the encounters, there's no real way to compete with a max powered player.

And you say a player will just bring their non-maxed Pokemon, then why even have them around? They're white elephants at that point and they serve little purpose other than to show off and write fanfiction.

And unfortunately, I feel opinions are extremely one-sided in this whole discussion. The old leadership may be gone, but the bulk of the playerbase are veterans who have built vast fortunes because Fizzy Bubbbles has had closed registration for.... what? Almost a decade? Almost the entire 'noobie' population has left because of the gap between the older players' powerhouse and the struggles of the newer players establishing themselves. And if I have be the most vocal devil's advocate, I will.

TLDR: I liked FB when it was simple Pokemon D&D and not Pokemon Neopets. FB has to be more communism than capitalism, and not Stalinism again.

[Whimsy]

What if you don't have everything yet? I mean, personally I don't believe I've been active enough here long enough to call myself a veteran - even though I joined in... 2012/13, just before the gates were closed I have been dropping and rejoining FB as my mood allows. As is, I may have a pretty "big" team (sitting at about 24 now I think?) so I probably couldn't call myself a new player by any standards but by no means is my team complete yet. Not RP-wise or anything. Sure, I am the sort of person who would take anything and try to turn it into a new character I love, but when I've only just gotten to know and love the characters I have so far, I don't think I could bear losing them.

[Marion Ette]

I was going to throw my hat in regarding the issue of hard resets, but you know what... Let's give it a rest. This is not a productive conversation, as it's abundantly clear that forcing such a thing will cause animosity among the current playerbase. Give people the option to reset if they want to take it, and let it go.

I had wanted to propose an idea for Zones, in order to assist with making sure that people with different goals and different objectives can have their adventures tailored to them. The Arcane Realm has developed a negative reputation, but the spirit of it (the idea of allowing for short adventures and quick captures) is something I would like to return to as an option for our new players - and even, perhaps, for older players who prefer faster adventures.

I wanted to propose the idea of QUICK, NORMAL and EXTENDED adventures.

QUICK would be something like 10 updates or less, no word count enforced. This is for people who want to be able to have an adventure to obtain a Pokemon, but don't want to have to go through a damn novel to get it. Short, sweet, easy. A mini-reward can be obtained with a Pokemon at the end of the adventure.

NORMAL would be something like 11-20 updates, no/minimal word count enforced. This would be for people who would like a decent-sized adventure, with some twists and turns, but again, not a novel. One mini-reward will be given midway through the adventure, and possibly one at the end.

EXTENDED would be 20+ updates, with a word count minimum. This is the "hardcore RP" mode, for people who aren't necessarily looking to increase their retinue of Pokemon right away, but who want an adventure they can write home about. Mini-rewards would occur roughly every 10 updates, and at the end.

I would argue that the likelihood of obtaining rare Pokemon should be the same among the three - this should be entirely a personal choice - but the idea is that, rather than have an Arcane Realm style "zone", people could request how long their adventures are in any zone. We could even have updaters that specialize in certain types of adventures (mine are always novels so I would be normal/extended only, but we could have updaters that specialize in quick updates, etc.)

Obviously, this is a very rough draft of the idea and I'm open to changes/tweaks.

What do y'all think?

[Princess Ana]

People left FB because there was nothing to do. FB was hemorrhaging members because of the moderations behavior and general attitude towards the community, and simply put, there was very few people to update period. When there is no one to update, obviously there's going to be no way for new people to get more Pokemon, especially since the Egg House was barred under the idiotic first capture rule which we, if we decide to keep the Egg house, are 100% going to get rid of.

FB is not a competition. It shouldn't be. Simply put, a new person isn't going to be disadvantaged in a zone compared to someone who has a lot of Pokemon because the updator shouldn't be providing them with the same adventures. We can't nuke the game every many so odd years just to make sure people don't have anything. That's ridiculous. A newbie - veteran divide is always going to exist. We want to incentivize RP. We're trying. We're trying to make that god damn work. We're cutting back on shops and shop culture, even if some people in my opinion are being pussy footed about it.

But, very simply, if you're going to sit here on a high horse and act like anything everyone has ever accomplished in this game is totally meaningless and feel its okay to tell much of the current playerbase to fuck off when we don't even know how we're going to reliably get new people because we don't have the Serebii branch or any real way of getting our RP out? Just stop.

EDIT: To talk about something else, I think Marion's idea is actually really good. I'm a little ashamed I didn't think of it myself, haha.

[Missingno. Master]

I like Marion's idea. A Quick adventure would be what your basic Arcane Realm adventure is intended as, while an Extended adventure would probably be somewhat like my Aduro Island adventure in Cascadia- big, epic adventure, feels like a real accomplishment when you get to the end, more about the RP experience than the rewards (though I will say, being able to catch my Heatmor at the end of that adventure, that still felt pretty damn good). I like that, I like the idea of being able to choose what variety of adventure you want in a given zone.

[myahoo]

So, I don't think my opinion counts for much, but I just want to say I really like ME's idea re:adventures and, provided the adventures I currently have ongoing transfer over, I'd love to have my updatees tell me what kind they want.

For the record, though, if there is a mandatory hard reset, which doesn't sound very likely from the current conversation, but if there is, I likely won't be sticking around once I finish up what adventures transfer over.

[Ex-Admiral Insane]

Posting here for two things for now:

1. I agree with the sentiment of most of the others before me; a mandatory reset will only anger a large part of the community who have adapted to the old rules and amassed a team because of it. Even if they didn't always RP with them in zones, a lot of people have spent their time using their Pokémon in the FFAZ, the free RP areas such as the Bar, their Secret Bases or the Visionary Glade. In my five(?) years time I have yet to complete a single adventure, but taking away what I have now is taking away all I have left of those five years. The few visionary glade posts I did make in the beginning, my secret base short story with EBE and MM, and all the other short happenings or moments I had to try to flesh out my Pokémon's characters. I may not have had a completed adventure but if I lose everything (or even most for that matter, of) what I have now it would be like saying those five years were almost nothing, and that the team I built now I can not use for more advanced adventures. I'm not necessarily looking to further build my team but I would like to continue roleplaying with the team I have now. Yes, I amassed a large party of Pokémon (even though that wasn't my original intent when joining here) but I want to continue with them, not restart where I was five years ago.


2. I like Marion's idea to an extent. Two things I want to point out though are that I still want an 'AR Zone' of sorts to enact as the FFAZ where newcomers can more freely update - a 'pick-up' adventure zone of sorts. A designated zone with these slightly different rules is still something I would like to have if we can. The second thing, and I can only speak for myself here, is that I very often have no idea how long a story might take. Two examples I have are Raves' and MM's stories on Phantom Isle who's adventures have been taking longer than I anticipated to get where they are now. Not just in real time (over a year now) but also in terms of the amount of updates. I'm not against Marion's idea, let me stress that. If we have the ZA and ZU system in place for zones, the more experienced updaters can give a better indication of how long an adventure would take, and updaters would have a better understanding. Add to that, I can (and have) at times taken liberties with pushing a character in a direction instead of waiting for their response (which would have most likely bent them in that direction anyway), so altering the adventure's length is not impossible. I just want to point out that expectations of adventure length may vary from what they end up being, and I'd prefer most (or just me) have a realistic understanding of that before they can confidently say how long the zone adventure is going to take.

Adding in on this again: I do still really like this idea and it would aid me (and quite possibly others) in better understanding what the updatee wants for their adventure.

[Marion Ette]

Originally Posted by Ex-Admiral Insane

2. I like Marion's idea to an extent. Two things I want to point out though are that I still want an 'AR Zone' of sorts to enact as the FFAZ where newcomers can more freely update - a 'pick-up' adventure zone of sorts. A designated zone with these slightly different rules is still something I would like to have if we can.

Certainly, we could have a beginner zone that's 5 updates or less (or 10 updates max, or even one-shot posts with one update; however we want to do it). We could even use that as a testing ground for new updaters, if we'd like, before they start their own zones or help another zone owner in a larger zone. I can see a lot of benefits to that, and would support it.

Originally Posted by EX-Admiral Insane

The second thing, and I can only speak for myself here, is that I very often have no idea how long a story might take. Two examples I have are Raves' and MM's stories on Phantom Isle who's adventures have been taking longer than I anticipated to get where they are now. Not just in real time (over a year now) but also in terms of the amount of updates. I'm not against Marion's idea, let me stress that. If we have the ZA and ZU system in place for zones, the more experienced updaters can give a better indication of how long an adventure would take, and updaters would have a better understanding. Add to that, I can (and have) at times taken liberties with pushing a character in a direction instead of waiting for their response (which would have most likely bent them in that direction anyway), so altering the adventure's length is not impossible. I just want to point out that expectations of adventure length may vary from what they end up being, and I'd prefer most (or just me) have a realistic understanding of that before they can confidently say how long the zone adventure is going to take.

Believe me when I tell you that I believe in flexibility for updatees. However, to put it bluntly, for the sake of the RP's survival, we need our updaters to adhere to some sort of story schedule and update limit for our newer members and for those members who are looking to expand their parties. I don't necessarily want to imply that the update limits I suggested should be hard rules that mods would come down on. THAT SAID... I do think it's time that updaters start actively working on controlling and managing story length for the sake of keeping FB alive and moving.

In some ways, it could be argued that the distinction between "normal" and "extended" should be more vague and pliable than the distinction between "quick" and "normal". A longer adventure is going to be more complex and have more potential for revisions/changes/adaptations than a shorter adventure (an adventure that was originally designed for 20+ updates could conceivably end in 15 given a drastic updatee choice, for example.) I can certainly see that argument for why the distinction between normal and extended shouldn't be as clear-cut.

I do wonder if we want to have resources for updaters - perhaps even a hidden forum where updaters can give and receive feedback - as a way to help ensure that stories wrap up in a timely manner when they need to.

[Gemini Spark]

I do like the idea of having adventure length be a little more defined as it gives both the player and the updater guidelines for how the adventure can be dealt with. In addition, having an updater-only subforum might be a good idea so that updaters have somewhere they can discuss current adventures with each other or for ZA/ZU discussion on a zone without all that information being shown to those who don't need to see it. The whole reason the original staff forum was disbanded was because it was abused by certain people, but the intention of the staff forum is certainly helpful.

[deoxys]

These, er, events, almost makes me want to come back to FB (and partially due to M E's ideas listed a few posts back too)

Like Loki... I miss the days of 2004-2005 UPN Fizzy Bubbles when I could take my Pokemon and just go on an adventure in a zone DnD style. Multiple zones at a time if I wanted. Sometimes my adventures would find me running into and pairing up with other people.

When the game became all about micromanaging everything you did and put a limit on just how much adventuring you were allowed to be doing at a time as well as creating a bunch of rules and restrictions for how to play the game that ultimately amounted to bottlenecking the gameplay and meta, I lost all interest, as did a lot of other old timers, some who left UPN altogether over it. FB meant a lot to me in my early teens, and my time with it really helped shape me creatively into who I am today, especially in regards to my writing! But who knows. I'll be watching what comes next closely with much interest. Admittedly, I don't know how FB has run recently (edit: after reading up, I now understand it pretty well), but I would almost think that, based on what I've read here, most people would prefer way less restrictions and micromanagement, right?


Also if I do come back and have to restart, I want to at least keep my shiny Phanpy, dagnabbit (also my spheal smol borb child)

[Ex-Admiral Insane]

The first proposal has been copied into the opening post of this thread.

[Missingno. Master]

Just gonna c/p my initial response to the proposal. Got nothing new to add about it at the moment, but I may reread it later on, see if I got anything else to say.

>Separate thread for wishlists
YES. FREAKING. PLEASE. I've lost count of how many times I've had to wade through a buttload of ancient trades to read through every wishlist in the Cable Club to see if someone- anyone!- might have wanted to get their hands on my latest hatch. Yeah, Eggs aren't gonna be quite as prevalent in FB anymore, but I think the point still stands- separating the wishlists from the Cable Club is just a good idea. Also, I like the idea of RPing in said thread to obtain a wanted Pokémon, it's an interesting idea.

>Rare Candies
I agree with everything that's said there. No problem with them losing their value as currency (they were on their way out in that aspect anyways- at the time of Tess stepping down, I'm pretty sure only the Move Tutor was still accepting them as payment), and also no problem with the continued weekly Rare Candy.

>Coins
My approval of a Coin Zone still stands. Not gonna lie, I'll miss the Casino, but in terms of making us actually work for coins, I will not deny it's a sensible move to make. I kinda like the idea of making it more of a luxury currency- make it harder to earn, but you can buy some seriously good stuff with it.

>Exchanging currency
Buying coins, I think that should stay. My personal opinion- it should be restricted to just Pokédollars (valuable items like Nuggets or Big Pearls, I would think you ought to be able to sell for Pokédollars instead of cashing in for coins), and the exchange rate ought to be adjusted so you can't just spend one zone reply's payment to get enough coins for a small shopping spree- probably an exaggeration there, but you get my point; in the games, you had to spend thousands of Pokédollars to get hundreds of coins. Buying them, while a helpful additional option, was ultimately not the smartest way to go about getting them in and of itself.

>Breeding Center
I'm all for relaxed restrictions on breeding, personally, as long as there's some restrictions. If someone wants to breed their Eevee with the intention of building a whole team of Eeveelutions, that's one thing, but if they can do it basically overnight with no effort whatsoever, that's a whole other swarm of Yanma.

>Move Tutor: I can get on board with this- dropoffs for TMs as well, with longer dropoffs for incompatible TMs. Seems like a reasonable restriction. I also like the addition of being able to drop stuff off for incompatible MTs as well- this opens up a whole host of possibilities that I for one am loving. Question- would this mean TMs as an item would cease to be a thing in FB? And if not, would we be able to use TMs that we actually have without dropping the Pokémon off?

>SoaT
My idea was that this becomes a mini-zone, though my guess is that Apricorns and Shards and the like would be available through zones and zones alone? If that's the case, I'd be all for the SoaT to remain a shop. Absolutely all for removing Shard Quests as well if we have to work for said Shards.

>Bases
YES. Making Secret Bases a more accessible feature is absolutely a good idea. Also very much in favor of being able to request custom furniture- Arn once mentioned that he would implement such a feature, but he never did.

[Gemini Spark]

Okay, so now that we've gotten a few things somewhat written out, I'll go ahead and throw some more of my opinions in.

>Zones/Updaters
I do like the whole ZA/ZU structure, iirc it's how things worked in the past, and it seemed to be a pretty efficient way to deal with updating when FB was booming.

>Mod Powers
What's written in the proposal as far as mod power is concerned should be fine; what I'm wondering is when we start looking at who is our first few mods. The problem with waiting until more details are ironed out is that we would be doing it without knowing who it is that we would be working with to set them in stone, and that doesn't make for particularly meaningful discussion at all. Honestly, I don't know if there is much else we can talk about right now other than vague, general concepts before establishing who our mods are.

>Economy/Currency
I was initially thinking we should scrap coins, but now that there's talk about making the Rare Candies less of a currency that actually makes more sense now. I mean, what were we really using candies for other than trades/level-ups...Move Tutor stuff? I know I wasn't. Better (and easier) to just get rid of paying for MT moves with candies than to make things any more complicated than they need to be. Pokedollars and coins are fine to have as the two currencies here, and the way to obtain them is also fine too. I also think we can exchange one currency for another, though maybe make it so players can't convert one currency into another and then back without there being some sort of loss on the amount they had before, i.e. $150 --> 100 coins --> $75. Numbers at this point are meant to be flexible and up for discussion at a later time, but at least it gets the idea across.

>Pokemon
I really like the idea of a wishlist thread separate from the Cable Club; it makes the updater's job much easier, and we can avoid cluttering up one thread to post what we want. I also welcome the idea of relaxing the rules on breeding even more than they were before--especially since I've considered classifying my character as a Pokemon Breeder--as well as restricting how many eggs we can get. The Egg Zone could use a bit more work/clarifying before it becomes something we can use, I'm on the fence about it atm. As far as moves and levels are concerned, what's listed is okay, though we may want to talk later about whether or not moves learned that aren't in a Pokemon's natural movepool are going to cost more energy than moves that are natural.

One thing we glossed over in our discussion but I feel is very important to the discussion of Pokemon is the idea of limited PC slots vs. unlimited PC slots. With all this talk of limiting eggs/free Pokemon we can get, that removes a big reason to limiting the amount of PC slots we can have, so I for one would really prefer that we just go back to having infinite PC slots so there's no particular stress about leveling up our Pokemon just so it opens up the next slot. I feel that mindset is very restrictive against people that want to pace out a Pokemon's growth and forces people to suddenly feed a bunch of candies into a Pokemon, which in turn contrasts with the goal of allowing people to the freedom to RP at their own pace.

>Items, Shops, and Bases
The rest of the proposal looks fine to me for how, and we can hash out details for these things later on after we prioritize getting mods and other important things done first.