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Old 03-26-2016, 05:41 PM   #1001
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I just watched Batman v Superman and really enjoyed it. I'm sad it has such a low Rotten Tomatoes score.

Ben Affleck is THE best Bruce Wayne / Batman we've had. I can't wait to see him reprise his role in future solo installments.
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Old 03-26-2016, 05:52 PM   #1002
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Complaints I've heard from people who otherwise enjoyed it:

Spoiler: show
1. They shouldn't have crammed BvS and DoJ into one film. BvS should've been its own film and DoJ should've been Avengers 1.

2. Doomsday sucked.

3. We all <3 Batman but the fight was too one-sided. There should've been more doubt about who was winning or would win out in the end, not knowing 95% of the time that Batman is winning.

4. Eisenberg Luthor a.k.a. Joker-Luthor. (This one's 50-50.)

5. Kryptonite. People wanted to see Batman win some other way, even if this is comics canon and is the foundation of so many How To Beat Superman stories.

6. "Martha ..." "WHAT DID YOU SAY!?" People disliked how PTSD triggered Wayne got just by hearing his mother's name. Surely he's heard other women named Martha growing up.

Whether that's enough to tank a film or not I think hugely depends on how invested you are in these franchises and how excited you were for the movie. Most of the people I've heard saying they enjoyed it, even the comic-knowledgeable ones, were more laid back. The people giving the movie a thumbs down seem to mostly be die-hard fans OR younger fans who got too excited for the film.

I haven't seen it, but helped myself to some spoiler-filled reviews because I didn't plan on seeing this one any time soon and its biggest draw is the singular spoiler about the fight's resolution.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:49 PM   #1003
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I don’t want my initial post to be seen as a definitive seal of approval, but the film is definitely better than modern superhero atrocities such as Spider-Man 3, X-Men 3 and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, all of which have higher RT scores. I’d probably put it in the same tier as Avengers: Age of Ultron, in that while it has some amazing sequences and ideas, it does come across a bit jumbled and doesn’t live up to the high expectations.

I’ll lay out my criticisms below:

Spoiler: show
There’s a point in the film (I think after the congress bombing scene) where things start to make less sense for the sake of progressing the plot. Like Lex turns a key in the Kryptonian ship and is suddenly given complete control over it. The birth of Doomsday in general is just super convenient. The ship is able to create one of these mutations by using a dead Kryptonian and Lex Luther’s blood. They don’t take the time to explain why or how to the audience, so it feels like the plot has been thrown out of the window because of time.

The part where they nuke Superman and Doomsday is a bit stupid. Superman is pushing Doomsday into space and we suddenly switch to the US government’s nuke department for the first time in the entire film. There’s a quick discussion on whether or not to nuke them, and within seconds they press the nuke button, and within seconds we see the nukes fire into space. Don’t get me wrong, one of my favourite surprises in the movie was that we got a live action shot of Frank Miller’s nuked supes, but there was just zero set-up behind it.

“Martha”. I agree this was dumb, and not knowing the names of either of their mothers before this scene left me momentarily confused. It’s grating that shortly after trying to kill Superman, Batman is like “I’m a friend of your son’s”. It’s such a stupid 180 that they could have at least soften by saying “I’m with your son” or “I’m one of the good guys”. Their relationship should have gone from enemies to untrusting allies – not BFFs.

The kryptonite spear. Batman stupidly discards it (rather than keeping it as a contingency or keeping it out of the wrong hands) then Lois even stupider-ly discards it by throwing it into a random flooded basement. Then, to give Lois something to do, the movie cuts between the epic doomsday fight and Lois trying and failing to retrieve the Kryptonite spear.

Superman’s death felt really rushed and didn’t have nearly as much of a ‘heroic death’ impact on me as the makers of this film probably thought it would. And for something so tragic, we’re given zero time to mourn before the film ends.

I ultimately feel like they should have left Man of Steel 2 as Superman vs. Lex with Lex and Doomsday given the screentime taken up by the other Justice League members to expand their characters and origins. I feel like they really jipped Superman out of a sequel here because this film was in no way a Superman film. It was a Justice League film (or even 40% Batman, 40% Justice League and 20% Superman). Alternately, they could have gone full-on Batman v Superman and saved Lex for a Man of Steel sequel. They would probably need to keep Doomsday in the big bad for the Justice League set-up, but Lex and Bruce’s roles in this film are completely interchangeable (both being non-powered billionaires with a score to settle with supes).
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:58 PM   #1004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Complaints I've heard from people who otherwise enjoyed it:

Spoiler: show
6. "Martha ..." "WHAT DID YOU SAY!?" People disliked how PTSD triggered Wayne got just by hearing his mother's name. Surely he's heard other women named Martha growing up.
I thought this was actually a very clever way to resolve things.

Spoiler: show
It had honestly never occurred to me that both Clark's and Bruce's mothers share the same name, and strikes me as another parallel that shows the two have more in common than one would initially think. (Symbolically that they both love their parents, not just the fact the names are the same of course.) As someone who's become an avidly strong supporter of the overall friendship (if not romance, thanks to my friend *shot*) the two have had over the ages and across universes, I really appreciate how pointing out that commonality got the two to stop fighting over a silly misunderstanding in the first place.

I disagree that it was out of character for Bruce to become triggered by the name. In this universe, it's already established that he has recurring nightmares and flashbacks via dream sequences. This is a Bruce who has already suffered a lot of personal loss beyond just his parents, evidenced by the Robin suit in the Batcave, which has led him to become far more bitter and brutal in his crimefighting tactics (he's branding people for God's sake, nevermind the irony of that being exactly what Joker did to Jason in Arkham Knight >.>). We also witness him in the middle of the fray at the end of the first movie (which I haven't seen, but know the basic important details of), where he sees the collateral damage up close and experiences suffering firsthand as one of the buildings he owns where many trusted friends and employees work gets blown up. In addition, it's revealed that Lex has basically been manipulating and screwing with him psychologically since then, if not for longer, heaping on guilt just to get Batman to carry out his plan to kill Superman. Bruce is broken and frazzled at this point, and even though he has his reasons to hate Superman, in the heat of the moment, such a sign that can keep him from completely shattering his moral code is enough to give him pause. It's a good thing for him to seize on to, if desperately. To (implicitly) remember why he got into crimefighting in the first place, and to then realize he's about to murder a man with a family of his own - someone else's son.

Plus, it was already foreshadowed in the opening scene when Thomas randomly uttered his wife's name as they were dying, which struck me as bizarrely specific at the time, but it became clear this is what it was setting up for. I think there's some further thematic relevance to it given Clark sees a vision of his father later in the film, who tells him a story of how as a kid he felt guilty over accidentally causing a neighbor's horses to drown after "heroically" saving their farm from being flooded instead, and had nightmares about the animals' screams until he met his wife which I totally don't relate to Timmy Todd and Steph in RotJ nope. The majority of the film is pretty much Superman's struggle to balance being a good Samaritan - if not "God" - with a personal life and loving someone - slowly coming to realization that you can't save/protect/please everybody. And it is heartbreaking to watch. (More like The World v Superman than Batman v Superman tbh.)

...And then they go and kill him in the end.

...And then again maybe they don't.

Idk I just have a lot of Clark feels now. And Bruce feels. Too many superhero feels. OTL (*cries* I just want my happy Charles&Erik-esque team-up ending where the two go around recruiting the X-Men Super Friends.)

Also I really hate Lex now. Maybe as much as Joker.

...Oh yeah and I guess WW was in it too. Honestly I wish they kept her appearance a secret, and maybe as my friend suggested cut out the reveal entirely until the end by saving the JL file cameos for a post-credits scene. 'Cuz I honestly thought she was Selina Kyle at first, and it would've been cool to keep the viewer guessing the whole time before teasing Diana and the other members for the next DCEU film, rather than trying to cram it all into one.


In terms of overall reception, I have many mixed feelings on the film myself, approaching it as both a newcomer and yet one who's now much more knowledgeable about comic mythos than most casual fans probably are. ^^; I saw it with my friend yesterday and we were both ranting about it during the credits (to the point one seasoned fan next to us said we "cracked her up") and all through the car ride home. Needless to say we each have our compliments and complaints. The general consensus is that it was "overwhelming". And, by that same extent, perhaps "underwhelming" as well. But there were definite moments that hit us individually. I just don't think they worked that well as a cohesive narrative.

I did enjoy the characterizations, especially Batfleck's surprisingly. Definitely tops Christian Bale/Nolan's interpretation IMO.

Spoiler: show
While I don't necessarily approve of how extreme his actions are taken (not even grumpy senior BTAS Bruce fell so far off the moral high ground in that he balked at having to use a gun to defend himself, although Batfleck's use of firearms did turn out to be a dream sequence), it is interesting to see such a jaded veteran Batman. I look forward to finding out more about his history and what caused him to become so cynical in any future solo installments (who knows, maybe we'll even see some other BatFam members like Nightwing and Oracle; if TKJ is canon in this universe I can definitely see how that would make Bruce even more disillusioned) - as well as where he goes from here now that Superman seems to have set him on the right track again. I do like that in death Superman serves as an inspiration to others. I just feel it happened way too early in his career. Although it is kinda ironic how the ending is pretty much a mirror flip of the finale to TDKR, with the result being Supes is the one who dies and possibly(?) comes back to life. (I just hope he doesn't SUPERBOYMAN PUNCH his way out of the coffin. 'Cuz that'd be dumb. But then this is the comics world so how else are they gonna explain it.)


I could go on about THEORIES and OPINIONS but I already feel like a geek/nerd enough. OTL At any rate, I'm at least hooked on this tragic train now - even if it's a wreck in more ways than one. *munches popcorn while quietly waiting for more despair* Bring it on, Snyder.

Just for fun, I will provide some capslock commentary I wrote afterwards, which pretty much sums up my thoughts throughout the film:

Spoiler: show
OH BOY HOW BRUCE’S PARENTS GONNA DIE THIS TIME

GODAMN THEY KEEP FINDING WAYS TO FETISHIZE THE PEARLS

RANDOM MENTION OF MARTHA’S NAME WHICH TURNS OUT TO ACTUALLY BE COOL FORESHADOWING (BUT STILL PRETTY MUCH REDUCES HER TO A PLOT DEVICE)

LMAO HE’S LITERALLY A FLOATING BATGOD

WHY ARE PEOPLE JUST STANDING AROUND WHEN BUILDINGS ARE FALLING DOWN

SUDDENLY TERRORISTS

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING NOW

NO SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING

I’M SO CONFUSED RN AND I DON’T THINK IT’S JUST BC I DIDN’T SEE THE FIRST FILM

CLARK SHOULDN’T YOU CARE PEOPLE DIED??? HOW IS IT EVEN HIS FAULT THOUGH???

POOR CLARK PLS STOP BEATING HIM UP

HE DOESN’T WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE A GOD BUT HE TRIES TO SAVE EVERYBODY

HE’S A GOOD BOY SCOUT

CLARK BBY

BRUCE BBY

BRUCE WHAT ARE YOU DOING

BRUCE STAHP

BRANDING IS BAD

GUNS ARE BAD

OH GOOD IT WAS A DREAM

WAIT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE RED HOOD OR IS IT FLASH

BUT FLASH SHOWS UP LATER

SPACE-TIME HIJINKS???

LEX YOU’RE A LITTLE BITCH

BOO HOO DADDY ISSUES AND I’M TOTALLY INSANE SO I’M GONNA FUCK WITH EVERYONE IN THIS FILM

I KINDA HATE LEX AS MUCH AS JOKER NOW

BOYS

BOYS

STOP FIGHTING

AWW BONDING OVER BEING MAMA’S BOYS

GO BRUCE

GO ALFRED

KICK SOME ASS

WHEE EXPLOSIONS

DAMNIT LOIS WHY’D YOU HAVE TO THROW THE DEUS EX MACHINA AWAY

CLARK NO

DON’T GO

OKAY WHERE’S THE COP-OUT REVIVAL

I’LL BE MAD IF THERE IS ONE THOUGH

OH OKAY HE’S REALLY DEAD I GUESS DAMN MOVIE’S GOT SOME BALLS

...OR IS HE???

EITHER WAY I’M STILL MAD

I JUST WANT MY ERIK&CHARLES-ESQUE TEAM-UP ENDING WHERE THEY GO AROUND COLLECTING ALL THE X-MEN SUPER FRIENDS

OH AND I GUESS WW WAS IN THIS TOO


Edit- Fun fact I just learned:

Spoiler: show
The camera guy who dies in the terrorist attack was supposed to be Jimmy Olsen. Poor Jimbo. ;;

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 03-26-2016 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:48 PM   #1005
Talon87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post


I thought this was actually a very clever way to resolve things.

Spoiler: show
It had honestly never occurred to me that both Clark's and Bruce's mothers share the same name, and strikes me as another parallel that shows the two have more in common than one would initially think. (Symbolically that they both love their parents, not just the fact the names are the same of course.) As someone who's become an avidly strong supporter of the overall friendship (if not romance, thanks to my friend *shot*) the two have had over the ages and across universes, I really appreciate how pointing out that commonality got the two to stop fighting over a silly misunderstanding in the first place.

I disagree that it was out of character for Bruce to become triggered by the name. In this universe, it's already established that he has recurring nightmares and flashbacks via dream sequences. This is a Bruce who has already suffered a lot of personal loss beyond just his parents, evidenced by the Robin suit in the Batcave, which has led him to become far more bitter and brutal in his crimefighting tactics (he's branding people for God's sake, nevermind the irony of that being exactly what Joker did to Jason in Arkham Knight >.>). We also witness him in the middle of the fray at the end of the first movie (which I haven't seen, but know the basic important details of), where he sees the collateral damage up close and experiences suffering firsthand as one of the buildings he owns where many trusted friends and employees work gets blown up. In addition, it's revealed that Lex has basically been manipulating and screwing with him psychologically since then, if not for longer, heaping on guilt just to get Batman to carry out his plan to kill Superman. Bruce is broken and frazzled at this point, and even though he has his reasons to hate Superman, in the heat of the moment, such a sign that can keep him from completely shattering his moral code is enough to give him pause. It's a good thing for him to seize on to, if desperately. To (implicitly) remember why he got into crimefighting in the first place, and to then realize he's about to murder a man with a family of his own - someone else's son.

Plus, it was already foreshadowed in the opening scene when Thomas randomly uttered his wife's name as they were dying, which struck me as bizarrely specific at the time, but it became clear this is what it was setting up for. I think there's some further thematic relevance to it given Clark sees a vision of his father later in the film, who tells him a story of how as a kid he felt guilty over accidentally causing a neighbor's horses to drown after "heroically" saving their farm from being flooded instead, and had nightmares about the animals' screams until he met his wife which I totally don't relate to Timmy Todd and Steph in RotJ nope. The majority of the film is pretty much Superman's struggle to balance being a good Samaritan - if not "God" - with a personal life and loving someone - slowly coming to realization that you can't save/protect/please everybody. And it is heartbreaking to watch. (More like The World v Superman than Batman v Superman tbh.)

...And then they go and kill him in the end.

...And then again maybe they don't.

Idk I just have a lot of Clark feels now. And Bruce feels. Too many superhero feels. OTL (*cries* I just want my happy Charles&Erik-esque team-up ending where the two go around recruiting the X-Men Super Friends.)

Also I really hate Lex now. Maybe as much as Joker.

...Oh yeah and I guess WW was in it too. Honestly I wish they kept her appearance a secret, and maybe as my friend suggested cut out the reveal entirely until the end by saving the JL file cameos for a post-credits scene. 'Cuz I honestly thought she was Selina Kyle at first, and it would've been cool to keep the viewer guessing the whole time before teasing Diana and the other members for the next DCEU film, rather than trying to cram it all into one.


In terms of overall reception, I have many mixed feelings on the film myself, approaching it as both a newcomer and yet one who's now much more knowledgeable about comic mythos than most casual fans probably are. ^^; I saw it with my friend yesterday and we were both ranting about it during the credits (to the point one seasoned fan next to us said we "cracked her up") and all through the car ride home. Needless to say we each have our compliments and complaints. The general consensus is that it was "overwhelming". And, by that same extent, perhaps "underwhelming" as well. But there were definite moments that hit us individually. I just don't think they worked that well as a cohesive narrative.

I did enjoy the characterizations, especially Batfleck's surprisingly. Definitely tops Christian Bale/Nolan's interpretation IMO.

Spoiler: show
While I don't necessarily approve of how extreme his actions are taken (not even grumpy senior BTAS Bruce fell so far off the moral high ground in that he balked at having to use a gun to defend himself, although Batfleck's use of firearms did turn out to be a dream sequence), it is interesting to see such a jaded veteran Batman. I look forward to finding out more about his history and what caused him to become so cynical in any future solo installments (who knows, maybe we'll even see some other BatFam members like Nightwing and Oracle; if TKJ is canon in this universe I can definitely see how that would make Bruce even more disillusioned) - as well as where he goes from here now that Superman seems to have set him on the right track again. I do like that in death Superman serves as an inspiration to others. I just feel it happened way too early in his career. Although it is kinda ironic how the ending is pretty much a mirror flip of the finale to TDKR, with the result being Supes is the one who dies and possibly(?) comes back to life. (I just hope he doesn't SUPERBOYMAN PUNCH his way out of the coffin. 'Cuz that'd be dumb. But then this is the comics world so how else are they gonna explain it.)


I could go on about THEORIES and OPINIONS but I already feel like a geek/nerd enough. OTL At any rate, I'm at least hooked on this tragic train now - even if it's a wreck in more ways than one. *munches popcorn while quietly waiting for more despair* Bring it on, Snyder.

Just for fun, I will provide some capslock commentary I wrote afterwards, which pretty much sums up my thoughts throughout the film:

Spoiler: show
OH BOY HOW BRUCE’S PARENTS GONNA DIE THIS TIME

GODAMN THEY KEEP FINDING WAYS TO FETISHIZE THE PEARLS

RANDOM MENTION OF MARTHA’S NAME WHICH TURNS OUT TO ACTUALLY BE COOL FORESHADOWING (BUT STILL PRETTY MUCH REDUCES HER TO A PLOT DEVICE)

LMAO HE’S LITERALLY A FLOATING BATGOD

WHY ARE PEOPLE JUST STANDING AROUND WHEN BUILDINGS ARE FALLING DOWN

SUDDENLY TERRORISTS

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING NOW

NO SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING

I’M SO CONFUSED RN AND I DON’T THINK IT’S JUST BC I DIDN’T SEE THE FIRST FILM

CLARK SHOULDN’T YOU CARE PEOPLE DIED??? HOW IS IT EVEN HIS FAULT THOUGH???

POOR CLARK PLS STOP BEATING HIM UP

HE DOESN’T WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE A GOD BUT HE TRIES TO SAVE EVERYBODY

HE’S A GOOD BOY SCOUT

CLARK BBY

BRUCE BBY

BRUCE WHAT ARE YOU DOING

BRUCE STAHP

BRANDING IS BAD

GUNS ARE BAD

OH GOOD IT WAS A DREAM

WAIT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE RED HOOD OR IS IT FLASH

BUT FLASH SHOWS UP LATER

SPACE-TIME HIJINKS???

LEX YOU’RE A LITTLE BITCH

BOO HOO DADDY ISSUES AND I’M TOTALLY INSANE SO I’M GONNA FUCK WITH EVERYONE IN THIS FILM

I KINDA HATE LEX AS MUCH AS JOKER NOW

BOYS

BOYS

STOP FIGHTING

AWW BONDING OVER BEING MAMA’S BOYS

GO BRUCE

GO ALFRED

KICK SOME ASS

WHEE EXPLOSIONS

DAMNIT LOIS WHY’D YOU HAVE TO THROW THE DEUS EX MACHINA AWAY

CLARK NO

DON’T GO

OKAY WHERE’S THE COP-OUT REVIVAL

I’LL BE MAD IF THERE IS ONE THOUGH

OH OKAY HE’S REALLY DEAD I GUESS DAMN MOVIE’S GOT SOME BALLS

...OR IS HE???

EITHER WAY I’M STILL MAD

I JUST WANT MY ERIK&CHARLES-ESQUE TEAM-UP ENDING WHERE THEY GO AROUND COLLECTING ALL THE X-MEN SUPER FRIENDS

OH AND I GUESS WW WAS IN THIS TOO


Edit- Fun fact I just learned:

Spoiler: show
The camera guy who dies in the terrorist attack was supposed to be Jimmy Olsen. Poor Jimbo. ;;
A few spoiler replies. Spoilers for The Dark Knight Rises too:

Spoiler: show
In the same way that Batman fans going into The Dark Knight Rises expected Bane to break Batman's back, Superman fans going into this movie expected Doomsday to kill Superman. It's only the most famous fight resulting in a hero's death in DC's history!

So that stated, you've asked how they're going to bring Superman back. Who knows. But if you want to know how it was originally done -- and why it was so unpopular -- you might want to check out this video if you haven't seen it before:

BORKED

(hyperlink)

You've known my position on this for years, and now here it is again with Superman: the cardinal sin in storytelling is to kill off a character only to later bring them back. Death is the most permanent thing we know and the most terrifying outcome we worry about for our heroes. You take away the permanence of death and you take away any and all suspense. There are weird exceptions I'm not going to allot time tonight to explaining (like Nagi no Asukara and Boku dake ga Inai Machi), but as a general rule, you don't kill someone and then later bring them back to life. It cheapens their death (and the emotional investment you had in the scene, and the personal growth experienced by the affected surviving characters). It utterly defangs the threat of death, robbing it of all ability to terrorize audience members.

And that's exactly what DC did. They killed Superman off, they made a big hullabaloo about it before and after the comic went on sale, and then they changed course. And now no one gives two shits about whether Superman is in a death-defying situation or not. Because they know that if even by some 0.1% chance he doesn't survive it, there's a 99.99% chance he's going to be brought back eventually.

Also: all of this Earth-1, Earth-2 crap isn't helping either. "Oh yeah, the Superman in this timeline died ... But the Superman from this other, near-identical timeline" ... Oh please.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:56 PM   #1006
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I just find it silly that they called it Batman v. Superman instead of vs. V. is usually used in legal cases, not punching matches. Was this some kind of weird censorship?
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Old 03-27-2016, 12:40 AM   #1007
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Lil' Bluey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
A few spoiler replies. Spoilers for The Dark Knight Rises too:

Spoiler: show
In the same way that Batman fans going into The Dark Knight Rises expected Bane to break Batman's back, Superman fans going into this movie expected Doomsday to kill Superman. It's only the most famous fight resulting in a hero's death in DC's history!

So that stated, you've asked how they're going to bring Superman back. Who knows. But if you want to know how it was originally done -- and why it was so unpopular -- you might want to check out this video if you haven't seen it before:

BORKED

(hyperlink)

You've known my position on this for years, and now here it is again with Superman: the cardinal sin in storytelling is to kill off a character only to later bring them back. Death is the most permanent thing we know and the most terrifying outcome we worry about for our heroes. You take away the permanence of death and you take away any and all suspense. There are weird exceptions I'm not going to allot time tonight to explaining (like Nagi no Asukara and Boku dake ga Inai Machi), but as a general rule, you don't kill someone and then later bring them back to life. It cheapens their death (and the emotional investment you had in the scene, and the personal growth experienced by the affected surviving characters). It utterly defangs the threat of death, robbing it of all ability to terrorize audience members.

And that's exactly what DC did. They killed Superman off, they made a big hullabaloo about it before and after the comic went on sale, and then they changed course. And now no one gives two shits about whether Superman is in a death-defying situation or not. Because they know that if even by some 0.1% chance he doesn't survive it, there's a 99.99% chance he's going to be brought back eventually.

Also: all of this Earth-1, Earth-2 crap isn't helping either. "Oh yeah, the Superman in this timeline died ... But the Superman from this other, near-identical timeline" ... Oh please.
I'm not nearly as familiar with the Superman mythos as I am with Batman, so I had no clue what to expect from the Doomsday fight. (I didn't even know it was named Doomsday until the movie stated it, I just assumed it was some random huge monster from the trailers. Also still not sure if it's different from "Darkseid" or whatever.)

For that matter, I think I'll skip the video. Going in unspoiled on that one point did leave me surprised at the end (which I suppose is saying something considering the trailers already gave away everything else). I'll wait to find out for myself through the films.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:15 AM   #1008
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BvS is fine. If you read it as a treatise on how US foreign policy is post 9/11 it's good, otherwise it's a bit dull.
https://m.reddit.com/r/movies/commen...an_v_superman/
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:14 PM   #1009
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Having just seen it, I feel like BvS stuffs it in three critical areas:

Spoiler: show

1. The setup of the eponymous fight feels contrived (mostly to get Lex Luthor involved with keikaku bullshit rather than focusing on the clash of personalities, which culminates in him bombing a Senate hearing for no discernible reason or gain), it's a 10 minute cripple fight and it ends on an equally contrived note (when was the last time you referred to your own mother by her given name? And that's ignoring Superman's other ways to resolve the conflict that were established by the movie itself).

2. It deconstructs Superman, but doesn't really build him back up again. Shit, when Superman's own mom gets involved you know it's dire ("keep fighting, you're a beacon of hope. Or, you know, don't. Who gives a shit?").

I kind of get that Superman is powerful enough that filmmakers only feel like they can have an interesting story if Superman's primary conflict is within, but one of the themes (that's supposed to drive the movie) is "can someone with all the power use it responsibly and do the right thing?" and the movie's main response seems to be "who cares, Superman is lame and you're lame for liking him." What should be the optimism of an alien who represents the best of us coming into conflict with the grim pragmatism of a man who has become the pinnacle of human potential gets lost in the poo flinging.

Meanwhile Batman kills a bunch of people in the movie with bat battling guns and pretty much nothing comes of it.

3. They snuck in one of the most hated events in comic history because they knew no one would accept "The Death of Superman" in the title. See you all at the Justice League in 2018!
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:19 PM   #1010
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Saw London has Fallen,

Overall I enjoyed it quite a bit, having seen the original some time ago it was nice to see that the two don't really play into eachother
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:48 PM   #1011
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Jungle Book is fine. It is soooooooooooooooooo slow. It also desperately wants to be The Lion King. Watch out for super shaky camera fast action scenes and teasing "hey guys we're about to do that soong you love" and then not doing the god damn songs. Baloo is the stand out character in that it is basically just Bill Murray going nuts for honey like Bill Murray goes nuts for whores and money.

There is also a spectacular Christopher Walden joke which only people who are too old to justifiably post on this forum will get.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:18 PM   #1012
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I don't get it. You say it's fine, but then disparage it.

What it means?!
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:31 PM   #1013
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It's fine. If you don't see it your life will not be lessened. It is flawed and the trailers lie to you. But it's not terrible.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:47 AM   #1014
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I also saw the Jungle Book the other day, i really really enjoyed it though, King Lui was a stand out for me haha.

Captain America Civil War
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Then immediately following that i went and saw Captain America Civil War. 10/10 it went far beyond what i expected. Ending was a little anti climatic but it did what it was supposed to do and thats set up for a number of other movies while still being a good movie itself. Had plenty of the classic action/comedy blend marvel is known for and black panther and spiderman get plenty of screen time and spidey gets solid development. Spiderman actually looks pretty good, i think they might get it right this time he seems to be the right mix and aunt may being a babe is a positive lol.
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:45 AM   #1015
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So basically where BvS was incoherent action every half an hour punctuated with too much speaking and set up, Cap3 was the opposite. It was much more enjoyable for it and very funny, but don't go in expecting anything clever. It pays lip service to Civil War but basically it's just lots of superhero fights loosely linked together.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:19 PM   #1016
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It pays lip service to Civil War but basically it's just lots of superhero fights loosely linked together.
Aww.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:16 AM   #1017
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The superhero fights are in fairness quite good.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:48 AM   #1018
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I personally think Civil War was more clever than you give it credit for and really benefitted from not just straight adapting the comic, where Stark and Shield are openly fascist and portrayed as totally in the right.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:03 PM   #1019
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Isn't Captain America supposed to be the Cold War era right-winger? It sounds so weird that Tony Stark would be George W. Bush while Captain America is being voiced by Michael Moore.
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:02 PM   #1020
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You've never read Captain America before have you?
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:20 AM   #1021
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Civil War probably is the best Marvel movie yet. Black Panther is great. Great Spidey, too.
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Old 05-08-2016, 08:38 PM   #1022
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You've never read Captain America before have you?
I saw the first movie. It was very AMERICAN FUDGE YEAH, WHERE EAGLES DARE, SIX BOOM BAH and all that rot.
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:05 PM   #1023
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I saw the first movie. It was very AMERICAN FUDGE YEAH, WHERE EAGLES DARE, SIX BOOM BAH and all that rot.
The first movie is sort of a prequel or a Chapter 0 to the story of Captain America. I can see how you might have conflated some of Cap's personality traits and sincerely-held beliefs for proof of "GLORIOUS NIPPON MURICA!" jingo levels of patriotism, but the thing with Captain America is ... well ... either you need to go spoil yourself on Wikipedia, spoil yourself with my box below, or read more of his comics / watch more of his films :

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He's your good old friend, Rip Van Winkle, in comic book form. Captain America remembers America as it was as he thought it was in the 1940s, and then he arrives in modern times. Not only does he experience the great culture shock that you'd expect a WW2-era Rip Van Winkle to experience on awakening, but he also comes face to face with what the American government has become while he's been asleep.

So rather than being a jingoist lap dog of the American government, Captain America is actually closer to being "the Batman of patriotism," not quite a vigilante (until the government forces him out in later tales, e.g. the events of the second recent Captain America film), but someone who definitely defies orders from politicians whom he believes serve only themselves and not the United States of America.

He's ... he's like "Boy Scouts meets Batman," kind of. He's an Eagle Scout through and through. But because of the world he finds himself in, he's shifted from Lawful Good (WW2 era) to Neutral Good (modern era). He's always good, he's always doing what's right ... but whereas before it was easy for him to do the right thing and be on the same side as the law, now it's not so easy when he feels like he's up against a corrupted version of the government he once so proudly served. Captain America is loyal to the idea of America, but he's by no means loyal to the politicians who ostensibly run it.

I'll share this much for you outside the spoiler box, to ensure you see it. It's just one example of many that supports my own clumsy explanation inside the spoiler box. I am sure Loki and others in our community can offer much sounder explanations than I can. I can't even vouch that the below is authentic and not just another Internet-provided photoshop. But since Captain America is easily my No.1 favorite Marvel superhero at this point, I wanted to reply to you too.


(click for full size)
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:32 PM   #1024
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Well okay, that clarifies things a bit. But I read an article on HuffPost or somewheres that Civil War was intended to be a 2003-esque parable of the War in Iraq. Captain America clearly fits the "Lady Liberty" role here, so when did Tony Stark move to Crawford, Texas?
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:54 PM   #1025
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Well okay, that clarifies things a bit. But I read an article on HuffPost or somewheres that Civil War was intended to be a 2003-esque parable of the War in Iraq. Captain America clearly fits the "Lady Liberty" role here, so when did Tony Stark move to Crawford, Texas?
Moreso 9/11 than Iraq. It's basically the whole "Freedom vs. Security" debate.

Captain America is Team Freedom. Tony Stark is Team Security.

Captain America got here by being who he always is. He fought in WW2 to protect our freedoms. Then he arrives in modern times to witness our own government snatching those freedoms away from us. He risked his life ... he personally knew men who lost theirs ... all so that the children born back then could throw away the freedoms he fought to defend? Fuck that shit.

Tony Stark used to sell weapons, but the events of Iron Man 1 saw Tony taking his father's company out of the weapons industry entirely. The very concept of the Iron Man suit is "safety suit," safety against bullets, safety against free fall, safety against fire, so on and so forth. The U.S. government demands Stark hand over the super suits. He refuses, and he is right to do so -- the government wants to use the suits for modern warfare. But with time, he has a harder and harder time convincing himself that superheroes are/should be above the law. (I don't know the details here, having not reacquainted myself with Stark's road to Civil War.) Eventually, Stark winds up in a politically important assignment, and the ball rolls from there.

Stark you could argue shouldn't have become what he became (*shrug*), but Captain America there is like no escape from his Civil War role.
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