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Old 09-29-2010, 01:05 PM   #1276
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I actually really like episode 1, even though most people say it's slow. There's lots of subtle little moments that make me pity Misuzu. Like when she asks Yukito if they can play at the beach.

"We can race each other, splash water on each other, then say 'see you tomorrow!' when we're done!"
"But that's something that friends would do."
"Yup, we're friends! That's why (chokes up) I want to play!"
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:52 PM   #1277
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Gotta jet for class, but here's an interjection -

On the subject of amazing character voice discoveries, Natsu no Arashi is probably king (queen?) of this, with almost the entire cast playing roles against their typecasts. When you give episode one a shot, Talon, do me a favour and do not look up the CV's until the characters have been properly introduced (episode one is an 'in media res' episode). It's quite gleeful to listen to CV's one has never heard before, then to Wikipedia the cast and be amazed at how many familiar faces (voices) are running about.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #1278
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I'll eat my hat if that diminutive boy of a main character is voiced by Noto Mamiko.
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:27 PM   #1279
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Through Episode 6 of Air. Thoughts ...

It's a little too supernatural for me. I've been thinking about why it is that I feel this way quite a bit considering that Kanon was just as supernaturally-themed and I really enjoyed it. I think that it may be partly due to the fact that the supernatural elements in Air are either less impressive (Kano) or else are concepts which I've already seen before, furthermore have seen before in Key works (Michiru in Air mirrors Makoto in Kanon, the only differences being what they originally were and what their motivations were for incarnation). But I don't know that that really explains it satisfactorily. All I know is, I'm not liking how the story seems to be set in normal seaside 20th Century Japan and yet every other person in this city we meet seems to be paranormal. Shrug.

I'm having a hard time getting into this one due to lack of a girl I can either find absolutely adorable (Ayu in Kanon, Fuuko in Clannad) or else I can find attractive (Kyou in Clannad). Minagi is the cutest of the main three girls in terms of her looks, but inferior animation (compared with Kanon 2006 and Clannad) hurts her looks a tad bit. Worse, though, is the fact that she's essentially a clone of Sayuri from Kanon, but she is inferior in most places where they differ. (Sayuri's hair is prettier. Her ribbon is cuter. Her mannerisms are cuter. Her voice is cuter.)

Like every single Key main character, I'm finding Yukito to be completely boring outside of the mystery of his backstory. Same thing held true for Yuuichi, same thing held true for Tomoya. (Oh good God was Tomoya boring until the Ushio arc!) That stated, I think that Yukito shows the most promise for an interesting backstory.

(Yuuichi vs. Tomoya vs. Yukito spoilers)
Spoiler: show
Yuucihi's was, "I witnessed the death of my childhood sweetheart / best friend. Mind fuck. Self-induced amnesia followed. And I'm only just figuring this out now as I begin to put the pieces of the puzzle back together."

Tomoya's was less impressive with "My mom died, my dad was a shitty dad imo, and he ruined my life by being a shitty dad and by ruining my sports career."

But Yukito ... this guy seems like he could very well belong to an angelic race or some similarly supernatural stuff. I mean:
  • how the hell did he know what to do with that angel's feather when Kano was freaking out? Nobody told him, "Yeah, you just put it over her chest, see, and make with your hands like you're about to perform CPR." So how the hell did he know to do that!?
  • how does he get the puppet to work? It's so easy to overlook the importance of this question since the puppetry scenes are always portrayed as light-hearted intermediate fluff which pads the meat 'n' potatoes scenes in the episodes. But seriously: we know it's not strings, we know he can do it with newly-acquired dolls (albeit poorly), we know that people can roughly handle the doll in the middle of an act and that, once they release it, he can pick up from where he left off ... I mean, seriously: just how is he doing this!? Does he even know how?
  • the stories his mom used to tell him about the girl on the other side of the sky? These are hardly what you'd call normal stories moms tell their sons. Even less normal is when the mom then devotes her life to trying to find this girl. And now Yukito is earnestly searching for her too.
  • the fact that Misuzu has been mind-linking with the girl on the other side of the sky at night, and that this has only been happening (as far as we know through Episode 6) since Yukito's arrival, suggests that Yukito's got something to do with this.

I dunno. It'll be interesting to see who or what Yukito really is.


So far? I'd rank Air squarely at the bottom of the pack. Ushio > Kanon > Clannad minus Ushio > Air.

But I've yet to see the main attraction, so anything could happen between now and Episode 12's end.
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:42 PM   #1280
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Through Episode 9 of Air. Thoughts ...

The ending theme song is growing on me. I can't say I'm a big fan of how it opens, but I love the chorus! The opening theme song's okay, but I'm not that keen on it.

Sanae-san! The voice actress who lent her voice to the delectable Furukawa Sanae in Clannad returns in this production to voice Uraha, the beautiful lady of the court! Awesome! Although I suppose I have it backwards, don't I? ^^; Seeing as Air predates Clannad and whatnot.

I know that this is going to make me sound like I'm being incredibly fickle about the supernatural stuff, but I LOVED the plot development in Episodes 8 and 9! I just knew that Yukito was special! And wow! Right when I was going to complain that Yukito's feelings for Misuzu felt unfounded, Episode 8 comes along and explains to me exactly why it's acceptable for him to feel this way about a girl it seemed he had only just met several days ago. That information is very welcome.

Glad that Episode 9 lent us some concrete explanations, finally, as to who/what the "girl in the sky" is and why she's in pain. (Goddamn Buddhist monks! )

My only complaint from the last three episodes is what took place at the very end of Episode 9.

Spoiler: show
Did Yukito just turn into a crow? Wait a second ... how are Yukito and the crow both around at the same time, as depicted by the sneak peek for Episode 10? And how come the crow has memories of Yukito's from Day n + c (where n and c are positive integers) but he has these memories on Day n? It's almost like Yukito's spirit went back in time ... and into a crow ... I'm so confused.

I hope Episode 10 will address this confusion. Better still, I hope Episode 10 will reassure me that Yukito is not going to be revealed to have been the astral projection of this crow's. >_> That would just be silly.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:39 PM   #1281
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Through Episode 12 (final, discounting epilogue episodes) of Air. Thoughts ...

Disappointment.

Ultimately, I'd rate the show as "entertaining but a let-down." It wouldn't make it into my silver medalists list, let alone gold. Planetes ... Kaiji ... I can think of several shows Mcsweeney and I have both loved, so he knows I am not completely without taste. Which is why it pains me, as his online pal, to have to report that I wasn't won over by Air. I hoped I would be, but it just wasn't meant to be, I guess.

Episode 10 revealed my worst fear from last post's spoiler box, with Episodes 11 and 12 further cementing that fact. Worse still, however, was that ...
Spoiler: show
a third reincarnation of Ryuuya seemed to show up at the very end of Episode 12 -- a third reincarnation who existed at the very same time as the first two. So I mean, it's like, wow. Heaven's got a sick sense of humor. "Let's not have him reincarnate for 1,000 years ... and then let's have him reincarnate as his great-great-great-great-(n)-great grandson, followed up with a reincarnation as a crow which oddly enough precedes the grandson's arrival, followed up with a reincarnation as a little local boy who follows the crow's arrival but precedes the grandson's."

I mean, that was just plain "WTF ARE YOU DOING TO MY MIND >_>" bad writing in my opinion. It's sort of like what would happen if you let a fanfic writer take the reins of a Back to the Future screenplay. "So, Marty 3 shows up after Marty 2 but before Marty 1, and then he ...!" Stop. -_-; This is too much. And it's really not even advancing the plot any. It's just a mind fuck for mind fuck's sake.


I was also really disappointed by Misuzu's path! Really disappointed!!
Spoiler: show
No romance? No significant developments between her and other characters? Misuzu's path wound up being Stepmom's path instead. And Stepmom ended up being a much less interesting character than I had hoped she'd be. While it was really cool to see her open up her heart to Misuzu, and while it was appreciably tragic that she did this much too late and ultimately suffered for it, what wasn't cool was the manner in which she was punished by the heavens the Key writers for her slothfulness.

A, Misuzu's illness had always been something of a prophecy linked to her spiritual previous self, Kanna. However, when Misuzu dies, she doesn't grow wings. She doesn't transform into Kanna. She doesn't vanish into pixie dust. She just ... dies.

B, Misuzu's illness was supposed to get progressively worse. It made no sense for the illness to get worse, worse, worse, and then suddenly for her to get better and then to die. I mean, in real life, this phenomenon does happen with patients with alarming frequency. Patients will avoid death, they'll seem to be doing fine, and then they'll drop dead 4 days later. Sort of a perverse "eye of the hurricane" effect where we assume we're out of the woods when really we're only halfway thru. But I digress: in storytelling, not in real-life medicine, I don't expect to see this sort of development. It just makes no sense. "I forget who you are ... oh wait, now I remember! *drops dead*"

C, Why didn't Stepmom take Misuzu to the doctor? Maybe she did, but if she did, it was entirely off-camera. The closest she came to it on-camera was when she MERELY SUGGESTED to Misuzu that they go see "the nice lady doctor." And then nothing came of it. Maybe I zipped through the show too fast for my own good and I'm forgetting that she did in fact take her to go and see the doctor. But I don't remember it happening.

D, the beach scene Mcsweeney spoke of was powerless next to Ayu's death scene and powerless squared next to Tomoya's reunion with Ushio. He played it up pretty big! And so imagine how disappointed I was when all it turned out to be was a "I relinquish parental custody of this person who no longer remembers who I am ... oh wait? What's this? She remembers who I am now! And she's affirming that she wants to stay with me! Oh, joy!" Yes, it was a good scene. But it was a 25˘ piece whereas Tomoya and Ushio was a $50 bill. >_> There's just no comparing the two. Not even on the same planet.

E, Misuzu's death following her attempt to walk from the wheelchair to her stepmom was more confusing than it was emotionally stirring. I spent more brain power trying to figure out, "Okay, what's going on ... is she dead yet? Is she going to unlock her Kanna powers?" and less time being sad. By contrast, the scene where poor little Ushio died in Clannad was ten times stronger and one thousand times clearer. I knew exactly what I was watching, and I spent every moment of it in a mix of sheer horror and sorrow.


But I suppose my single greatest disappointment was that the backstory introduced by Episodes 8 and 9 was all but forgotten in Misuzu's path.
Spoiler: show
Yukito (in either of his two forms) never remembered what happened. Neither did Misuzu. And what about poor Uraha? She got completely shafted! You could say that her reincarnation was Yukito's mother, but even still I'm disappointed. Yukito's mother's death was baffling. "Oh yeah, I'mma just go ahead and turn into energy which you can store inside of this little dolly."


Oh yeah! I almost forgot!
Spoiler: show
What good did the doll end up doing anyway!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Yukito was allowed to use it to save Misuzu, according to his mother. It contained the life energies of Yukito's mother, grandmother, and perhaps even older ancestors. We're also led to believe that Yukito himself energized, instantaneously reincarnating as the crow. Shouldn't that act have, y'know, coincided with him making a wish with the doll to save Misuzu's life? Or even if not that, then to rescue Kanna from her prison in the sky? In the end, neither of these two outcomes is reached. So what the fuck good did the doll do? We didn't get to save EITHER girl with it! And Mom promised it'd save at least one or the other!! >_<


Don't get the wrong idea. I didn't hate this show. But I didn't love it either. Despite marathoning it in one day (which should say something at least for its tolerability!), I was often times bored and towards the end I was frequently confused.





Now, the ratings. I'm dreading this a little since I know it'll pain Mcsweeney to see such low scores, but ... well, I gotta be honest, right? And besides: my scores are my own. They're opinions, not facts. And it's that fact which lets fans of this program rest easy. Anyway, here are the scores:

Animation: 9/10 (for when it aired; 8/10 for today). The single greatest problem with Air is its faces, something it's inherited from Key. But it's not just their design: the faces themselves seem to be drawn very crudely where the backgrounds are gorgeous. In the backgrounds, I can see the foreshadowing of the great things which were to come in 2006's Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuuutsu. In the faces, however, I can see the dating of this 2005 program.

Characters: 5/10. An abysmal score, I know, but frankly: (a) there are only three routes and thus only three main girls, (b) the main characters and the supporting characters are all pretty uninteresting, reeking of a B-grade OAV's cast and not of an A-grade visual novel's, and (c) the character development is frustratingly confusing and stilted. Would have been a 4/10 but for the characters introduced in Episodes 8 and 9.

Plot: 5/10. The plot basically rides on the characters' coattails. So it shouldn't be surprising that the low-scoring characters helped to tell what ultimately proved to be a low-scoring story. High marks go to the story's intrigue early on. Low marks go to the story not living up to that early intrigue and becoming way too bogged down in confusing symbolism and stuff in the second half.

Replay Value: 4/10. I have no interest in watching this again, but I would not be pained if you forced me to.

Overall: 5/10. Below average. The show could have been great, and I had boosted hopes (as you can see in my last post!!) by the end of Episode 9. Unfortunately, those hopes were dashed by the final three episodes' content.

Last edited by Talon87; 09-29-2010 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:30 AM   #1282
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Wow, scathing.

I haven't clicked any of those spoiler-boxes for fear of juicy details (I think I got singed by a Planetes one earlier, but I only read about three words into it, so no major harm...I guess) but I'm also disappointed given that review. It's regrettable your views echo the majority sentiments - that Air isn't as good as the other KEY titles made anime.

I'm going to watch NnA's first season again right just to confirm it was as sweet as I remember. I've got to stay up anyway for class, might as well kill some time...
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:09 AM   #1283
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Having slept on it, awoken this morning, and read Doppel's reply ("Wow, scathing"), I have this to add:

I think that one of the things which frustrated me most about Air's ending, but which its fans would probably defend as being one of its boldest moves, is the fact that ...

Spoiler: show
Air is not the story where Kanna's curse is lifted. It is instead one specific glimpse of the many (?) times she has been reincarnated, made to suffer the monks' curse, and subsequently passed away. Or, I suppose another way of interpreting it would be is, it's a glimpse at her damned fate of being a supernatural being who is being continuously reincarnated into mortal form -- and that because a mortal container will break prior to becoming completely filled by her spirit, she's cursed to reincarnate and to break eternally.

Why is this frustrating? Well ...

First of all, it's frustrating because I'd like closure, and Air doesn't give me that. Instead, Air tells me, "Maybe she'll escape her curse one day. And maybe she won't. But today was not that day."

Second of all, it's frustrating because it hints at an eternally tragic ending. It hints at the very real likelihood that Kanna will forever reincarnate into mortal forms, that mortal forms will perpetually not be able to handle her spiritual energy, and that they will break, forcing her to repeat the cycle of reincarnation for all eternity. While I am a sucker for good tragedies, I generally fare best with what I'd call "happy tragedies" (e.g. when Tomoya loses Nagisa but gains Ushio) and fare most poorly with what I'd call "despair tragedies" (e.g. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) where there is no silver lining to the clouds -- they're just clouds, and they're everywhere.


Another thing which I think really killed Air for me was the crow.

Spoiler: show
No matter the technical details ... no matter how you explain to me who came first and when and why ... no matter whether you explain to me that Yukito was always the crow all along, or whether he was both the crow and the young man, or whether he was the young man who then became the crow by using the magical energies stored within his doll ... no matter the technical details, I am annoyed by the fact that Yukito winds up as a bird-brained crow in the end.

Part of the reason I'm annoyed is that it's anachronistic. The crow wasn't there in Episodes 1 through 7. He just wasn't. If Sora (the crow) had been there from the beginning, and we had just assumed that he was Misuzu's pet bird, and then we had discovered later on that he was actually Yukito, that might have made it more acceptable to me. (Might have.) But as it stands, we're taken back in time to the day when Misuzu first sees Yukito on the pier, and from here on we relive the story we've just seen unfold in Episodes 1 through 7 only this time there's a crow at most of the crucial events. I just wish the crow had been there from the beginning.

Another part of the reason I'm annoyed is that it doesn't make sense for Yukito to have become a crow. If Yukito is the reincarnation of Ryuuya -- and now that I've had a chance to sleep on it, I'm also starting to wonder if he really was or not. Maybe he was just Ryuuya's descendant who inherited Ryuuya's will and nothing more? But if Yukito is in fact Ryuuya's reincarnation -- then it doesn't make sense for the heavens to allow his spirit to reincarnate as a human (which would suggest that he did not sin greatly enough in life to be condemned to an existence as an animal) only to have him then die and reincarnate this time as a bird. Not as a regular human. Not as an untouchable human. But as a bird. It just doesn't make sense. You could say, "The heavens are doing him a favor: they have bestowed him with the gift of flight, permitting him to search for Kanna." But the thing is, it's not as though he's going to find Kanna in the skies. She's not visible. (If she were, you'd think an airplane pilot would have spotted her by now!) She exists in a purely spiritual form. So being a crow who can fly in the sky isn't going to help him any.


I think that if these two complaints of mine didn't exist, that if I were more open to Air's place in the chronology of Kanna's life and if I were more open to the crow's existence, that I would have liked the series more. I still wouldn't have rated it gold, but I certainly wouldn't have rated it a 5/10 either.

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Old 09-30-2010, 11:52 AM   #1284
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Gah! It feels like Gilligan's Island is taking a lifetime. Either that or I spend too much time fucking off while I should be reading. Regardless! Like Higurashi, it gets into pretty good detail with the characters (personality, not appearance.) I'm not that far, but I'd like to point out some things I liked about this that the anime annoyed me about. The anime tried too hard to make people look intense. Maria looked fucking freaky as hell, which added to how god damn annoying she is. Rosa's expression looked crazed when she punished Maria for misbehaving, so the anime made you think she was an abusive mother (which she wasn't.)

The menu features in this game are nice too. It gives you a brief description of all the characters, and if they die, it marks them out of the list and tells you how they died and stuff. It also has a TIPs feature where you can go back and read things like a letter or something that you might want to look back on.

As far as other things go, I'm not far enough to really say. I'm on the first large murder so I can't compare yet. Hopefully things won't take a turn for full on retarded.

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Old 09-30-2010, 02:31 PM   #1285
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In defence of Air:

Spoiler: show
You raise a lot of complaints about the weird and confusing supernatural elements. Not going to disagree with you here, I didn't understand a lot of it myself. I just gave it a pass though. When the crow thing happened for instance, I was like, "Wait, what? How'd that happen? Oh well" I say this a lot during Key stories actually, heh.

No romance - Yes, exactly! I loved the platonic relationship Yukito and Misuzu had. I was always thinking how if they DID suddenly introduce romance into it, it would ruin everything. I actually really like young girl/older guy relationships in fiction, where the guy is purely in a guardian role.

No hot chicks - It's true, the character designs ain't the greatest, but I liked the drama. It's not like I only watch anime when I'm horny, though it helps.

It's too bad that you hated the last few episodes, because these are, to me, what really make the show. The beginning was good, the middle was boring, the end? Fuckin' great melodrama! Damn, poor kid.

I've come to realize that the Clannad After field scene really is super goddamn good, PERHAPS superior, especially since you deciding to finish the show inspired me to study it more closely, but the Air beach scene? Shiiiit, that's good stuff too! Definitely better than Ayu's. The entire episode is basically one big build up to that one point. It appeared that Misuzu's mediocre father (who apparently is some kind of sell out who doesn't speak in kansai anymore) was successful in getting her back, then suddenly we see her struggling and saying something, we didn't know what ... and then we heard what and that damn music hit! Oh man it got me good.

The episode after that when she died. Perhaps another case of unnecessary death, but in any case, good melodrama. At least her illness was way less out of left field than Ushio's.

Now I know what those people who try to explain to me why Grave of the Fireflies is a masterpiece feel like!
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:45 PM   #1286
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Yeah, but Ryuuya clearly was more than Kanna's guardian. And she must have felt the same way, considering she kissed him on the lips right before flying up into the sky in Episode 9. So I feel like there should have been something there between Yukito and Misuzu. Funny thing being, there must have originally been in the original eroge, right? Which means you really like Air the anime (which is non-ero), but I wonder how you'd have felt then about the original game itself?

Nah, I still feel that Ayu's scene trumps Misuzu's. Why?
Spoiler: show
1. I feel like Yuuichi had more invested in Ayu from the very beginning, whereas the stepmom in Air had only decided to officially adopt Misuzu several episodes back.

2. I feel like Ayu's death makes perfect logical sense -- she fell down from the tree she used to love to climb -- whereas Misuzu's sudden memory flood did not -- why should she forget everything that had happened between her and her aunt over the past few years, only then to remember it all again? Why then? Why there? Feels a little deus ex to me!


To be honest, I think a major difference between us may be how we view the stepmother. To me, she was a minor character who was suddenly thrust into the role of a major character with Episode 10. I knew as much about her and cared as much about her as I knew and cared about Hijiki (the doctor) or Minagi's mother. So while I'm not a Vulcan or a Nazi, and while I can appreciate that she is a human being with feelings and that those feelings were crushed in Episode 11, then saved, and then crushed again in Episode 12, it just didn't have much impact on me. Yuuichi's suffering in Kanon, by contrast, I really felt bad for the guy because I'd been with him every step of the way.

I'm guessing that you don't feel the same way, do you? You probably see the stepmom as being just as important a character as Yukito or Misuzu, and more important than say Kano or Minagi. And so to you, what ended up happening with her in Episodes 10-12 must have been more emotional than it was for me.

I dunno. There's just no accounting for taste, unfortunately. I'm really sorry I don't see eye-to-eye with you on this one, but I just don't.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:53 PM   #1287
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I did consider her one of the three most important characters, but eh, oh well. I suppose I can never make you see why Hachi from Planetes was totally justified in the way he was acting during the Von Braun arc either!

Also, Nayuki is totally hotter than Ayu.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:31 PM   #1288
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Hey, guys. Just finished episode 10 of Kanon (Makoto's arc). 'Twas sad and it made me cry (I cry easily, but I knew to expect sadness from Key). I'm still a little confused though.

Spoiler: show
What exactly is Makoto? I didn't quite catch/understand the footnote. Do the Youko grant their own miracles, i.e. Makoto turned herself into a human? Are they foxes or children? What happened to Makoto and Piro at the end?


On another note, I still can't get over how much Yuuichi reminds me of (a more sadistic) Kyon. They even dress alike. ><
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:06 PM   #1289
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Addressing said confusion as best I can ...
Spoiler: show
Makoto was Yuuichi's pet fox from when he was last in Hokkaido ten years ago. She takes her name from a story Yuuichi once told her about a girl in the neighborhood named Makoto on whom he had a small crush. Yuuichi lets his pet fox go ten years ago, presumably because he couldn't take her back with him to where he lived, and this breaks the fox's heart. She misses her master so much that she makes a wish to be reunited with him. And she is, albeit only for a short time (for the reasons explained by the mysterious girl Yuuichi meets up with at school).

Piro iirc winds up in the same place where Yuuichi dropped his pet fox off ten years ago. After parting with Makoto, Yuuichi takes Piro home. Or maybe he doesn't. I don't remember. BBB might. In any event, Piro's alive and well. I think you even see him again in the final episode?


As for the folktale origins to Makoto's story ...
Spoiler: show
Japanese traditions tell of fox spirits which assume human form. It's the basis for many Japanese tales or sayings surrounding foxes. See this link for much helpful information on the subject.


Cool to hear that you're enjoying the show and so far into it already. I might actually want to re-watch it myself, but we'll see. ^^; I may have other things I need to attend to first. Personally, I think Makoto's story is the second or third best of the five, so (imo) you're in for a bit of a lull period coming up, but I would say just hang in there because the best and third best or best and second best stories are the ones dealt with together, side by side, at the very end of the series. I don't necessarily recommend it, but it's not the biggest spoiler in the world either: click the spoiler box to see the order in which the girls' paths are explored.

Spoiler: show
First - Makoto
Second - Mai (and Sayuri)
Third - Shiori
Fourth - Nayuki (alongside Ayu)
Fifth - Ayu (alongside Nayuki)
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:12 PM   #1290
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Also, you've met Sayuri by now, so you'll understand what I mean when I say how much I love her "AHAHA!"

Tell us! Have you noticed anything? I won't be any more specific than that! When BBB first watched Kanon, I didn't spoil it for him then! And I shan't spoil it for you now, either! But I was laughing and biting my fingernails and all manner of things when watching Kanon 2006, because they put in SO MANY CLUES for Ayu's backstory in the remake, but they're SO, SO SUBTLE unless you already know the story. So! Have you noticed anything so far which strikes you as worthy of comment?

DO NOT CLICK THIS! Not unless you've already finished Kanon!
Spoiler: show
(link)

Anyway, BBB: that's just one of the many clues I remember being all at back when you watched the series. Not that exact screencap, of course, but that which is depicted in it. I remember the time early on when they show Yuuichi unpacking, and he has the red headband, and I'm like "But you shouldn't have that! That should be impossible!!" And then Ayu is seen running around town wearing it. And I bit my tongue. And was wondering, "I wonder if BBB has noticed this!? Of course he probably hasn't. How could he? To me, it's as clear as night and day. To him, it's completely below his radar!" Oh, man. This brings back memories.


But this you CAN go ahead and click on. It's a compilation of all the catchphrases from the show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyEUuCMTgqI Stop watching it at around 5:23 if you don't want to go past where you are in the show right now. (Just goes to show you that most of the catchphrase utterances are from the first half of the series!) But skip ahead to 5:33, 5:34ish if you want to see a few of Sayuri's lovely Ahaha's back to back. Be sure to quit as soon as you wish, though, since he does cover the entire series. But since he does it in chronological order, you're safe guaranteed for the first 5 minutes.

Last edited by Talon87; 09-30-2010 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:12 PM   #1291
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On Makoto:

Spoiler: show
So is she the only "spirit assumed human form" in the show? I thought some of the other girls might be too, just from speculation and slight spoilers.


As for noticing things, dunno if I'm on the right track, but...

Spoiler: show
I realized once Makoto's speech started to degenerate that "Auu~" sounds like a dog whine/howl (plus she has a fang). I haven't looked it up yet to confirm, but I'm guessing that's the Japanese onomatopoeia for fox sounds?

"Uguu~" reminds me of a pig... And Ayu tends to eat and run...(?)


I'm probably way off. XD Plus I don't see how this would relate to a spoiler I read earlier about Yuuichi.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:10 PM   #1292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post
On Makoto:

Spoiler: show
So is she the only "spirit assumed human form" in the show? I thought some of the other girls might be too, just from speculation and slight spoilers.
Spoiler: show
Makoto is the only one in the novel like that, although she's not really a "spirit" in the sense we think of (soul of the dead), she's more like akin to a supernatural creature from Western legends, like an elf.


Quote:

As for noticing things, dunno if I'm on the right track, but...

Spoiler: show
I realized once Makoto's speech started to degenerate that "Auu~" sounds like a dog whine/howl (plus she has a fang). I haven't looked it up yet to confirm, but I'm guessing that's the Japanese onomatopoeia for fox sounds?

"Uguu~" reminds me of a pig... And Ayu tends to eat and run...(?)


I'm probably way off. XD Plus I don't see how this would relate to a spoiler I read earlier about Yuuichi.
Yep, those are vulpine sounds.

As for ~uguu...what? XD That's an interesting connection. I always thought if it as something Ayu says when she's troubled. East Asians appear (?) to have similar speech ticks, because when I first heard ~uguu, it sounded disturbingly like my mother's ~ugoi (which I've inherited).
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:23 PM   #1293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Spoiler: show
Makoto is the only one in the novel like that, although she's not really a "spirit" in the sense we think of (soul of the dead), she's more like akin to a supernatural creature from Western legends, like an elf.
Spoiler: show
Ah, okay. I got the sense there might be others from what that short-haired quiet girl said (forget her name).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
As for ~uguu...what? XD That's an interesting connection. I always thought if it as something Ayu says when she's troubled. East Asians appear (?) to have similar speech ticks, because when I first heard ~uguu, it sounded disturbingly like my mother's ~ugoi (which I've inherited).
XD It was just a random thought. I wondered if maybe it was similar to Fruits Basket or something.

Darn. Now whenever I see the wings on Ayu's backpack I can only think of the phrase:

Spoiler: show
"When pigs fly!"


Edit- New crazy theory!

Spoiler: show
Ayu's left-handed, right? And she uses masculine self-referencing... Could she be a mirror-like projection of Yuuichi or something? x.X

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 09-30-2010 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:48 PM   #1294
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LOL! Nice crazy theories. But they're pretty crazy. No, I'm talking more about visual observations, not character conspiracy theories. Visual oddities and/or inconsistencies and/or quirks. But I really don't want to say anything more than that.

I'll have to disagree with Doppel on the "she's not really a spirit" bit, but this is just me being a semantics quibbler. Makoto is a spirit insofar as she is a youkai. The spirits Doppel is referring to are a specific subset of spirits called yuurei. See: youkai, yuurei.

There's one more thing I'd like to disagree with him on, but I can't say what it is or I feel I'd be spoiling the show for you. So ... we'll come back to it later.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:07 PM   #1295
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XD Sorry. I think you can tell by now my friend's insanity has rubbed off on me.

And I understand the point Dopple was trying to make about spirits. I've heard of the difference between the two.

As for visual oddities... Hm... Can't say I've noticed anything in particular that stands out. Would this have something to do with the narration at the beginning of each episode that repeats this is a "dream"?

Halfway through the series now, btw.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:12 PM   #1296
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Well, that's not really an observation you can make. I watched Episode 01's beginning on Youtube (when I linked you to it the other day, remember?) and I was stunned by how spoilerific the opening is IF you know what it's about. I remember feeling the same way when it first aired. I remember asking BBB, "Dude! O_O;;;;;;; Do you feel spoilered? What do you think happened?" But he was totally clueless, thank God. Kyoto Animation knew what they were doing. To me, the scene was night-and-day obvious but to him it was full of hazy mystery. I imagine you're much the same way.

The observations I'm alluding to are more concrete and are much less obvious than that. Kyoto makes a big deal out of the Ayu "I'm seeing a dream" soliloquies. They don't make a big deal out of the things I'm thinking about because if they did then even a first-timer like yourself would begin to say, "Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a second! How come ____________ !?"

Forget I said anything. ^^; Just enjoy the show. We'll talk about the clues that made Ayu's path obvious after you finish the story.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:19 PM   #1297
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Well... I feel like I already know the basic idea of what happened to Ayu in the past since I read the first sentence of your "(Yuuichi vs. Tomoya vs. Yukito spoilers)" earlier. ._.;;; So yeah. Will this ruin the series for me?

Oh, and the channel you linked me to only has the episodes up through 12. Time to search for a new source.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:22 PM   #1298
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Quote:
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Well... I feel like I already know the basic idea of what happened to Ayu in the past since I read the first sentence of your "(Yuuichi vs. Tomoya vs. Yukito spoilers)" earlier. ._.;;; So yeah. Will this ruin the series for me?
YES! -.-; I put the Yuuichi bit above it specifically so you'd know to avoid it. Aww man. Well ... there's some hope though. You don't have the plot completely ruined. But if I say why, that'll ruin the little bit you've got left! So don't ask me why, just keep watching.

Oh SHOOT though.

As for how to continue, I looked back at our old Kanon posts from 2007, and it appears that I recommended SS-Eclipse. a.f.k.'s sub was the 2nd place one. Apparently neither translation met 100% with my approval, but SS-Eclipse translated fewer things incorrectly and/or they translated more things expertly. But it's up to you which one you try to go with.

Alternatively, Kanon should be out on DVD. I should go buy it myself ...

Last edited by Talon87; 09-30-2010 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:25 PM   #1299
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
YES! -.-; I put the Yuuichi bit above it specifically so you'd know to avoid it. Aww man. Well ... there's some hope though. You don't have the plot completely ruined. But if I say why, that'll ruin the little bit you've got left! So don't ask me why, just keep watching.

Oh SHOOT though.
I hadn't started watching the show at that point. D= I didn't know what the guy's name was!

But hey, now we're even?
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:31 PM   #1300
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I guess? I feel like my spoiler is way bigger than yours was. I feel really bad right now. There are, like, three things one should never spoil. Planetes Episode 24 and Kanon Episode 22 are two of them. And I spoiled both for two different people two days in a row. Despite putting both inside of spoiler tags. -.-;

Note to self: ask Kuno to give us a spoiler tag clone which is the Condense Text tag so that SPOILER TAGS MEAN 100% OF THE TIME "DON'T CLICK ME UNLESS YOU'VE SEEN THE STORY I'M TO DO WITH!

*goes to write thread*
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