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Old 07-11-2016, 12:21 PM   #1751
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Neither is that bad and honestly I think they're both choices that could lead the country forward to something great (much better than previous years as I remember it). I'm leaning to the businessman over the career politician, but it could be that Hillary has aces up her sleeve beyond "I'm like Obama but a girl."

Especially with the Justice Dept. choosing not to indict Hillary, she has a pretty good chance against Trump. But the Donald is such an incredible debater (perhaps even a master in his craft) that Hillary might find it difficult to stay afloat in the court of public opinion as easily as she did in the court of law.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:07 AM   #1752
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I have quite literally seen 12 year olds that are better debaters than Donald Trump.

You are confusing eliciting emotion with winning debates.
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Old 07-12-2016, 01:40 AM   #1753
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Originally Posted by Rangeet View Post
I have quite literally seen 12 year olds that are better debaters than Donald Trump.

You are confusing eliciting emotion with winning debates.
Do you also know a 12 year old who is a better rebounder than Shaquille O'Neal?

Trump managed to clearly and effectively communicate his positions in a way that strengthened his political campaign while absolutely destroying the campaigns of at least 3 other candidates. Love him or hate him, he's clearly demonstrated a lot of skill in this area.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:36 AM   #1754
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As much as I loathe Trump, he knows how to work a crowd and with the way American elections are set up it's a major advantage.
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Shouldn’t the Hoff be doing something if he’s still around? I have strict rules about leaving the pool, and I’m sure vanishing the pool out of existence breaks those rules in some way :P
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:50 AM   #1755
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Sorry, talking about your dick in a nationally televised debate does not a master debater make.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:53 AM   #1756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeet View Post
Sorry, talking about your dick in a nationally televised debate does not a master debater make.
No, but it does make him a masterbater.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:27 AM   #1757
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Sorry, talking about your dick in a nationally televised debate does not a master debater make.
At the time he said it, I would have agreed with you.

But that son of a bitch not only got away with talking about his DICK on LIVE TELEVISION, but it was actually a brilliant political move that has earned him a great deal of attention and support. I really hate that I have to say this. I do. I talk too much about Trump as some esoteric political genius as it is. And it's not a simple thing to explain why the dick line not only didn't kill his campaign but actively strengthened it. You'd need to understand the entire nature of Trump's campaign plus why it worked so well this election plus Trump's sense of humor plus the reasons why the line is socially acceptable to say plus the possible drawbacks of not saying the line!

But essentially. If you want the tl;dr version: Blowhard businessman runs for president on a larger-than-life personal image. His caustic wit and yuuuge persona grants him instant popularity, and his vast wealth allows him to take advantage of opportunities where other candidates may have fallen short. He cannot allow himself to fall victim to a successful rumor attack. And the Democrats have tried, but he's iron - he's campaigning off of this persona, so it has to be airtight.

The dick line not only strengthens his personality as a loud and powerful person, but also defends against attacks from political opponents about his dick by cracking the subject open now. Until he was able to say something about his dick, Trump was actually weak to attacks that accused him of having a tiny dick. Which is so weird to say, but it's true; his persona requires that every part of him be amazing. You see the attacks that have flown already: Drumpf, his weird toupee, his orange skin, his weird thing about his tiny hands. But all of those are part of his brand already. They can't hurt him because they're all positives. By attacking these things, the opposition is actually strengthening Trump's position by giving him attention and building his brand. But all it takes is one vengeful former lover to come forward and lie and his persona is absolutely trashed. I'm sure the puns will flow freely if that happens. The idea that Trump's personality is simply compensating for his sexual impotence would stick like glue.

So Trump stepped forward. He ended it permanently by bringing up the subject in such a ballsy way that nobody could ever bring up his penis in a way that doesn't IMMEDIATELY remind every listener of the time Donald Trump bragged about his cock on a nationally televised debate.

Do you still think your 12 year old friend is a better debater than Donald Trump?
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:16 AM   #1758
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Trump is quite a good speaker. Nothing he says is what he believes, nor is it coherent or sensible, but he is capable of speaking it.
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:52 AM   #1759
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People laughing at Trump for having a small dick is the last thing Trump needs to worry about because people laugh at Trump for everything else.

Being a good speaker does not mean you are a good debater. They are quite different things, though being a good speaker is certainly necessary for being a good debater.
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:01 AM   #1760
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Yes. But being a good speaker is more important to winning the Presidency.
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:19 AM   #1761
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Point. Though Trump is mainly doing that by virtue of the other candidate being pretty awful, too.

Politics!
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:10 AM   #1762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
But that son of a bitch not only got away with talking about his DICK on LIVE TELEVISION, but it was actually a brilliant political move that has earned him a great deal of attention and support.
I hate America and you are all to blame.

On a more serious topic than Donald Trump's penis, Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton today and I was asked to be there but had to miss it due to a stupid job interview.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:29 PM   #1763
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fuck interviews

Can't say I'm surprised at that though, he's been soft-hinting to it for a while now.
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Old 07-12-2016, 01:04 PM   #1764
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fuck interviews

Can't say I'm surprised at that though, he's been soft-hinting to it for a while now.
I believe that this is in fact his third endorsement of her, just the first one in which he's actually said straight out that he endorses her, especially with her standing behind him smiling.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:01 PM   #1765
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It's honestly so stupid that I find it necessary to actually analyze the importance of Donald Trump's cock on national politics. But there you go. It's important. It's a thing. And I do firmly believe that if he had not done it, we'd be seeing small-dick attacks over Twitter on Trump. If not now, then later, closer to the election.

There are 2 things Hillary has an advantage on: her identity and her policies. These are attractive to left-wing voters!

First off, she's a woman. Anyone who says that's not important is willfully blind. She is absolutely campaigning on her gender. But to me, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Donald Trump is running on his wealth and personality. Obama ran on his race. Reagan ran on his smile. Identity matters, and Hillary's identity as a woman makes her a historic candidate whether she wins or loses; no woman has ever won the DNC before, and if all goes right for her, she could be the first female president. That's a massive progressive victory! You can't separate Hillary from her gender any more than you can separate Trump from his. I would be happy to vote for a female president. Just not Hillary.

The second is her policies, and you can see what her priorities are by looking at the news. This is why we've seen a lot more racial violence, gun violence, and injustice on the news lately, and why BLM has been gathering so much unusual attention; it's all to strengthen Hillary's campaign by convincing the public that her stances are important. If Trump had Hillary's kind of influence over the news, we'd all be hearing stories about attacks that illegal immigrants are making on American citizens. We'd be hearing about deportations and border crossings and acts of terror.

I'm sure the news has been used in this way before, but honestly this is making me really dislike Hillary. It's so. Fucking. Transparent that all this coverage is purely to get her elected.

But the most disgusting thing for me is that Hillary Clinton has actually gone into her connections and had people go to the BLM movement in an attempt to organize and bolster it. Why did it take BLM 5 years to get their shit together and come up with a list of 10 main points? Why is BLM being viewed positively now, rather than as the massive nuisance they were for FOREVER? It's a stupid group with no clear objective. All it really ever accomplished was attracting attention to itself without actually communicating any kind of information or message. It's a group that has always operated as a group of kids screaming into the void.

I feel like a conspiracy nut screaming about Hillary the puppetmaster lmao. But this has always been the case; it's been her strategy since she first started running. She's had a long time to amass what is basically an army of media moguls, the super-rich, and lobbyists so that she can sweep through the election by manipulating public opinion. Which is so funny in context.

Here's my predictions as we head past the conventions into the Clinton-Trump presidential election:

- News will continue to to support Hillary's positions. More and more public figures will come out in support of Hillary.
- Trump will begin to endorse many of Hillary's key positions. He's been suspiciously quiet on LGBT rights and racial injustice thus far, probably waiting for Hillary to double down in those areas before he steals the wind from her sails
- The main fight will be over gun control. Trump will express a desire to enforce existing laws, while Hillary will urge Congress to pass new ones. We'll probably end up somewhere in the middle, with a useless assault weapons ban passed and stronger enforcement of existing gun laws. Gun nuts will grumble but everyone will be satisfied. Mass shootings will still happen.
- Trump is going to absolutely shred Hillary in debates. Will be funny to watch Democrats pretend that she is winning them.
- Hillary will quickly withdraw from investing too much into debate season, preferring instead to let her team do the talking for her. Comedians, pundits, and news organizations will pick up the slack, becoming hyper-critical of Trump's statements while mostly ignoring Hillary's.
- With the benefit of the open podium and with a lame-duck debater as his opponent, Trump will milk the debate time as much as possible. It's a double-edged sword though; he HAS to do it. Since he can't get media attention anymore (it all falls under Hillary's umbrella), he will have to use debates to get his messages across. I think it'll be effective for a while since Hillary can't just refuse to show up to a debate. However he might struggle to reach viewers if Hillary becomes untouchably cold and distant as people may not want to watch the debates if Hillary's just gonna sit there like a dead fish while Trump mocks her for a solid hour.
- Trump will take the election in a narrow victory over Clinton and America will calm down and realize he's not actually fucking Hitler. (This is mostly spitballing; Hillary has a real chance thanks to the media and her progressive positions. however, she has a filthy voting record, especially for a democrat, and I think it'll be really hard for her to actually distance herself from what she said 10 years ago.)

Seriously. Why is everyone saying Trump is literally Hitler? The only evidence I've seen for this claim is either factually inaccurate or literally the phrase "If you compare Trump's rise to power to Hitler's, there are some scary similarities!" Makes my blood boil.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:10 PM   #1766
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Also I'd like to post some snippets from Scott Adams' blog. He's the guy who wrote Dilbert (the ancient comic about the workplace that is more sad than funny) and his political analysis is interesting and novel; he treats the election as a battle of persuasion. Which honestly it kind of is, even though that's only one part of it.

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Some of you watched with amusement as I endorsed Hillary Clinton for my personal safety. What you might not know is that I was completely serious. I was getting a lot of direct and indirect death threats for writing about Trump’s powers of persuasion, and I made all of that go away by endorsing Clinton. People don’t care why I am on their side. They only care that I am.

You might have found it funny that I endorsed Clinton for my personal safety. But it was only funny by coincidence. I did it for personal safety, and apparently it is working. Where I live, in California, it is not safe to be seen as supportive of anything Trump says or does. So I fixed that.

Again, I’m completely serious about the safety issue. Writing about Trump ended my speaking career, and has already reduced my income by about 40%, as far as I can tell. But I’m in less physical danger than I was.
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But Clinton’s team – including social media and the liberal-leaning mainstream media – responded by defining Trump as a literal Hitler. A Hitler-like leader in your own country is even scarier than external threats. Persuasion-wise, it is a winning formula for Team Clinton, even though the case is built on confirmation bias, not fact. (Trump has never mentioned race in a negative way.)

So now we have a situation in which Team Clinton has scared citizens into thinking the threat to their lives is mostly domestic, coming from Trump, Trump supporters, and anyone who looks like them. People who are scared will act. And we see those actions now in terms of violence against police, violence against Trump supporters, and death threats to bloggers such as me. And we already have one attempted Trump assassination.

So far, Trump has showed a willingness to annihilate any professional politician that gets in the way. And he’s annihilated professional reporters and news organizations that got in his way. And he’s tough on non-citizens. But Trump hasn’t tried to turn American citizens against each other. Clinton has, and successfully so.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:30 AM   #1767
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Also I'd like to post some snippets from Scott Adams' blog. He's the guy who wrote Dilbert (the ancient comic about the workplace that is more sad than funny) and his political analysis is interesting and novel; he treats the election as a battle of persuasion. Which honestly it kind of is, even though that's only one part of it.
I am a moderator on another forum. On that forum the conspiracy theories you have expressed would be more than enough for me to take action. Of course we have very strict rules regarding that sort of thing while UPN does not because of the differing natures of the two sites, and that's not a bad thing, just different. I felt it was worth pointing out though.

I do admit that it has been fun reading your conspiracy theories about the election and the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy to get Hillary elected President, but I must at this time cut this off and welcome you to my ignore list.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:41 AM   #1768
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Have you considered we are comparing Trump to Hitler because he has sparked race violence and advocated banning Muslims from America? Oh wait, you have, but you conveniently ignore all the evidence that he has done all these things.
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:07 AM   #1769
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There really isn't any comparison between Trump and Hitler. That's like comparing Tal's Hill to Mount Everest.

Hence, why Godwin's Law is the internet punch line for when you stop paying attention to someone's arguments. That people are, un-ironically, buying the Trump = Hitler argument is scary in and of itself.
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:33 AM   #1770
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There really isn't any comparison between Trump and Hitler. That's like comparing Tal's Hill to Mount Everest.

Hence, why Godwin's Law is the internet punch line for when you stop paying attention to someone's arguments. That people are, un-ironically, buying the Trump = Hitler argument is scary in and of itself.
Bold, colored emphasis my own. This is the big hangup I have with people on both sides of Trump's fence. You've got people who say he is literally Hitler and you've got people who say he is 0% Hitler. And the reality that I see is, he bears some striking similarities with Hitler while of course not being Adolf Hitler. It's hard to take anyone seriously who says that there are no similarities when, clear as day, there are at least some similarities.

Both men appeal to "true Germans" / "true Americans." With Trump, you see this from top to bottom with his campaign. "Make America great again." In identifying problems with Muslim refugees and illegal Mexican immigrants, Trump's narrative takes the tone that these "impure" social groups are what is dragging America down. He doesn't have to say it verbatim. It's clear as day to anyone who's not in denial about what message he's trying to get across. And if you insist on verbatims, it is on the spoken record from xenophobic Trump supporter after xenophobic Trump supporter who gleefully talks about such things as "kicking all the Mexicans out of our country." One striking example of Trump's appeal to the WASP demographic was when he went on the attack against an ethnically Hispanic judge who was both born and raised in America. The message is clear: as with Hitler's Aryan race and Hirohito's "Asia for Asians," Trump espouses an America that will bring 1950s-style happiness to the greatest number of white Americans.

Both men foment anger towards the fact that our country, "once great," has been on the decline in recent years. The causes and natures of this decline were very different for Weimar Germany vs. post-Clinton America, but the commonality is that people nostalgically remember "the glory days," they see the inflation and unemployment, and they want to go back to those happier times.

In closing, it's important to address some obvious dissimilarities too. Hitler had many plans in mind as to how to fix the economy, and once in power he quickly put them into motion. Trump is mostly speeches, and many of his more intellectual supporters insist that he won't even be attempting to keep many of the promises he's made during the campaign cycle. Weimar Jews were amongst the most well-off in the impoverished nation, whereas 2010s Muslim and Mexican Americans are usually associated with the middle and lower classes. Hitler had already built a party, with party members who would go on to take key positions in his national government, by the time he was running for office. Trump's campaign engine seems to be in disarray and outside of his two children it's tough to identify anyone whom he might be appointing to office once elected.

But to insist that there are absolutely no similarities between the two is just not right. The similarities are there. And so obvious that they were seized upon iiiiiiiiiiiiimmediately by the Internet. They're not apparitions. They're not fabrications of the left. They're real, they're on the record, and they concern a great many Americans.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:08 AM   #1771
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I can understand the xenophobia point. I don't think it's 0% Hitler so much as "don't make comparisons with Hitler".

But by invoking Hitler's name, it's implicitly suggesting that Trump has enough similarities to make a valid comparison (not true) and that if elected Trump will go Hitler in office (probably not). Similes involving Hitler always progress to metaphors - no longer "like" or "as" Hitler, but "is" Hitler.

Using Hitler as an example, much like using blackface, is so politically charged it overrides the content of the comparison and undercuts most satire. People are using it because it's a low-hanging fruit of a comparison when there are other ways to attack Trump effectively that don't come across as...juvenile?

I mean, there are more similarities with the Ku Klux Klan and Trump than Trump and Hitler, barring the big one (oratory). Trump even has his own snafu involving the Ku Klux Klan that could be played up more. There isn't a real connection, but there is a real controversy.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:29 AM   #1772
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Ignoring all the conspiracy theory nonsense for a bit...

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But the most disgusting thing for me is that Hillary Clinton has actually gone into her connections and had people go to the BLM movement in an attempt to organize and bolster it. Why did it take BLM 5 years to get their shit together and come up with a list of 10 main points? Why is BLM being viewed positively now, rather than as the massive nuisance they were for FOREVER? It's a stupid group with no clear objective. All it really ever accomplished was attracting attention to itself without actually communicating any kind of information or message. It's a group that has always operated as a group of kids screaming into the void.
Why are you so against Black Lives Matter? Why are they a "stupid group?" The point of the Black Lives Matter moment is for police to treat African-Americans equally. That's why I support it.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:49 AM   #1773
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I think Shuckle misspoke, phoopes. His quote makes much more sense as amended here:

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Originally Posted by Shuckle
But the most disgusting thing for me is that Hillary Clinton has actually gone into her connections and had people go to the OWS movement in an attempt to organize and bolster it. Why did it take OWS 5 years to get their shit together and come up with a list of 10 main points? Why is OWS being viewed positively now, rather than as the massive nuisance they were for FOREVER? It's a stupid group with no clear objective. All it really ever accomplished was attracting attention to itself without actually communicating any kind of information or message. It's a group that has always operated as a group of kids screaming into the void.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:54 AM   #1774
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Also Black Lives Matter hasn't even been AROUND for 5 years??????

I won't even mention how ridiculous it would be to me if it turned out that was precisely what you meant to say
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:59 AM   #1775
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Occupy Wall Street happened in 2011, approaching 5 years ago. Hence, why I pointed out the quote must have been a huge gaffe on Shuck's part!!
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