AnoHana

[Talon87]

WARNING: this opening post contains spoilers for the first episode of the series. But it's impossible to sell this show without at least discussing that much. So, please do not read on if you do not wish to be spoilered at all and were already planning on checking this one out. Otherwise, proceed: so as to be convinced to pick it up.

Six friends formed a squad called the Super Peace Busters. Together, they would go in the woods, play in an abandoned shed they turned into their secret club house, and have other adventures. However, everything changed the day Menma died and the group fell apart.

Now, years later, Menma's ghost appears and asks Jinta to get the gang back together again. When they were kids, Menma had a wish she asked Jinta to fulfill. In order to fulfill this wish, Menma says that Jinta will have to round up the entire group. But this will be easier said than done. For starters, Menma forgets what the wish was and Jinta doesn't remember either. Then there's the fact that Jinta turned into a NEET, no doubt because he has been haunted all these years by immense feelings of guilt regarding what happened the day before Menma died. Finally, not everyone's ecstatic about seeing Jinta again. And since Jinta is the only one who can see or hear Menma, this could make it difficult for him to get the others to believe that he's not pulling a sick joke.

Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa mada Shiranai looks like it has the possible makings for greatness. It may end up just being another program which while pleasant to watch is not very memorable. But if the first episode is any indication, it may just as easily end up being the best anime of the Spring 2011 season. (Watch out, Kaiji!) So if you haven't checked it out yet, be sure to!

Pictures:
the gang ten years ago
the gang today
the Super Peace Busters

Video:
Aoi Shiori, the OP (hi-res, raw)
Aoi Shiori, the OP (hi-res, English subs by Doki)

[big bad birtha]

I watched the first episode of this. Of course, I was joking when I said I'd watch it because the word "flower" was in the title.

Anyway, I couldn't of started watching this show at a better time. After watching all the kid's shows I've been watching in the last two months, I was actually a little bummed about something this show is about.

An anime about a girl who hasn't lost her childishness bringing back together a group of people who have grown up for the worst. It's perfect for what I've been feeling lately.

Ano Hana has my support.

The only real problem I have with it is the fact that Menma is almost exactly like Index, and I got used to that pretty fast.

[Doppleganger]

As I was telling BBB, I screamed when I saw Menma because she is an Index CLONE and I was pretty upset and wanted to drop it two minutes in. I forgot the details of Talon's summary, but figured out what was going on by myself when that first flashback happened. Maybe my senses are just more highly tuned following MLA, I dunno...

It was a pretty good episode, but thus far I like the set-up more than where we're going. This will definitely be a must-watch anime, I feel bad that there's only a single episode out.

[Bluejolteon]

i envy you ppl who talk about anime like index that ive never even heard before XD
Good episode though the sex urges bits were kinda wierd.....then again japanese anime can get away with pretty much anything, seems like this anime can go to some very good places if they writers do it right

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Bluejolteon

i envy you ppl who talk about anime like index that ive never even heard before XD

It comes with experience. ^_^; Nothing more to it. Heck: your doppelganger in three years might sign up here and say, "I envy you ppl who talk about anime like anohana that ive never even heard before XD" and you'll be like, "I didn't do anything special: I just happened to watch it!"

Originally Posted by Bluejolteon

Good episode though the sex urges bits were kinda wierd

Yeah, I thought they were a bit weird too. The one thing I really appreciated was that Menma not once reacted. She didn't do a token "Huh? What's poking me?" thing like you see in so many shows. She didn't seem to notice it at all. To be honest, we could have done perfectly well without such a scene, but it's not like it ruined the show: and it could be argued as something which powerfully sets up very early on in your subconscious the idea that Jinta liked/likes Menma. (Not the best argument since erection by physical stimulus + awkwardly sexual situation =/= erection by sexual desire, but whatever.)

I thought Anaru's mom's scene was funny though. That jab about puberty seemed to cut right through to the core of her daughter's heart. lol

Originally Posted by Doppelganger, bbb

Index stuff

I didn't notice, but some of my irl friends did. Hopefully it won't be too much of a distraction for you. Look at it this way: if I ever go and watch Index, the shoe'll be on the other foot!

[Doppleganger]

Menma has the potential to be a lot better than Index. Index had all of her character development finished in the first arc of the titular anime - heck, she confessed to Touma during her finest moment, the end of the first arc - and has regressed into a caricature since then. Two full anime seasons worth of Index has shown she'll never again become a full fledged character, development is now relegated to new and future characters.

Something I've been thinking about - isn't Menma a

Kanon spoiler!

Spoiler: show

...Ayu-style ghost? She looks older/taller than memory Menma but is clearly very childish and under-developed. Ayu somehow had a mix of adult and child body as a ghost, but the trick with her was...she was alive. Had Ayu not been alive I would have, and I believe I did, question how she could be so adult-like despite being dead for many years.

Oh god, I'm getting assaulted by Kanon and Muv-Luv Alternative memories all at once!! @_@

[Bluejolteon]

one thing that isnt in other animes(i dont think anyway) is that menma looks [I]nothing[I] like a ghost. I think this tells us something, idk exactly what but maybe someone eelse does <.>

[Talon87]

Well, we know she's dead for real because of hard evidence like:
- the Honma family altar for Menma in their home
- Menma's mother saying it
- Menma saying it

Then there's the supporting evidence like:
- the flashback of Menma's lone shoe floating downstream in the river

[Bluejolteon]

true, but i meant she looks like a real person, not floaty or transparent like other ghosts in these shows

[Talon87]

Japanese ghosts often do that. See: Ugetsu, famous Noh play; Kwaidan, famous film which collects some Japanese folk tales from an anthology put together by a visiting scholar to Japan. (Would mention other Japanese stories but don't want to spoiler you.) They also have pale ghosts. See: Kwaidan. I think the solid form and the completely non-human-looking form were more common than the pale ghost form back in the day, but that may just be impressions I've formed from reading what stories I have, seeing what films I have, etc. For modern examples of both, see Fatal Frame (video game series) for the pale floaty ghosts but see The Grudge for the opaque, grounded ghosts.

[Bluejolteon]

this anime is most likely only gonna get sadder as more episodes come out, considering that a 6 yr old girl dies in the first episode who knows what next

[lilboocorsola]

I couldn't stand feeling left out so I watched the first episode. >>;

Looks good so far, though I agree the sex bits were kind of weird. One thing I was surprised to see is that the little bald boy wasn't introduced as a teen until the very end, and he turned out to be a perv living/hiding in their clubhouse. ^^; Totally thought he was going to be a big, lovable lug - the most innocent and easygoing of the bunch aside from Menma - based on his image and personality as a child.

Haven't seen Index, so I don't know what BBB and Dopple are on about. Menma unfortunately seems a little annoying - mostly due to her voice, but I'll try to bear with it since we know she's just a kid (and dead), after all.

...And so begins the wait. Focus, focus on exams now, Blue! Faito da yo! *shot*

[Bluejolteon]

someone better find out when episode 2 is or someone dies *cocks gun*

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Bluejolteon

someone better find out when episode 2 is or someone dies *cocks gun*

Uhh ... you can see the entire (tentative!) schedule here. You can use that site to find the airdates for any show in their database, past or present. So as you can see, it airs on Thursdays in Japan.

More details (no spoilers, lol):

Spoiler: show

If you go to the actual site, you can see (in Japanese) that it says it started airing on Fuji TV's noitaminA block at 25:15 (so, 1:15am) on Thursdays starting April 14. I dunno why they say 25:15 and not 1:15 (very weird), so I can't say with confidence whether this means Thursday 1:15am or Friday 1:15am (since, in my mind, "Thursday 25:15" would be "Friday 1:15", you know?). Tokyo is 14 hours ahead of the East Coast (usually; standard times) so (depending on DST stuff) I would say that right now Tokyo is probably 13-14 hours ahead of us. That means that AnoHana airs at around 11:15am to 12:15pm on either Wednesday (if originally Thursday 1:15am) or Thursday (if originally Friday 1:15am).

Basically, regardless, Episode 02 has definitely already aired by now since at the time of this writing it is 3:21pm EDT and thus either 6:21am or else 7:21am Friday morning in Tokyo right now.

But you have to give the translators time to translate this. You can't and shouldn't expect 24-hour turnaround. I think as a general rule of thumb, from now you should probably not expect to see new AnoHana episodes until Saturday mornings in America at the absolute soonest. Consider anything earlier a welcome surprise.

[Bluejolteon]

thx for that *puts gun away*

[Doppleganger]

Episode 2's out by gg, it's right up our alley. Har har har!

[Talon87]

Sub Wars!

Three different groups I sort of respect the translations of -- Doki, gg, and UTW -- are subbing this program. And all three have produced unique translations which diverge in various places. I can see how some of the lines they had to translate would be a nightmare of ambiguity, and so I don't fault them for these divergences nor consider anyone's interpretation "wrong" per se until proven otherwise -- but each of the three groups is also guilty of mistranslations which one or two of the other groups caught.

I'll give you examples, all from Episode 01.

gg:
After Jinta runs off, Tsuruko scolds Yukiatsu and calls him by his family name, Matsuyuki. Doki caught this but gg didn't, writing his nickname (Yukiatsu) again instead.

UTW:
Tsuruko says that people change when Honma Meiko (Menma) is brought up in conversation. Doki and gg caught this but had diverging translations, with one saying Yukiatsu changes and the other saying people in general change. UTW had a translation that was just completely weird. ^^;

Doki:
When Jinta is muttering to himself while Menma picks flowers in the sunset, he mentions how "ano baba" got on his nerves. All three groups translate the "get on my nerves" bit differently, and that's semi-fine, but Doki was the only one to translate the subject differently: "my grandmother" instead of "those old hags," the latter a translation gg and UTW both agreed on.

These are just a few samples. It'd take me hours to list off all the various things they diverged on (egg cooking scene, how to translate "Oji-san" for Jinta's dad, etc) or the all of the various things they flat-out got wrong. After having pain-stakingly scrutinized all three translations, I've found that none of them is near-perfect but the best seems to be gg's. That stated, I can't stand the fact that gg left the Hourou Musuko advertisement in the middle of Episode 01. Both of the other groups had the decency to cut that out of the episode. Drives me fucking nuts they left that in. >_< AND THAT GILETTE COMMERCIAL AT THE END! X_x Argh! So, because of that alone, I might end up archiving two different subs. Waste of space, waste of bandwidth, waste of my time, but ... I just can't let gg's episode 01 slide the way it is right now. >_<

Happily, it looks like they don't have any commercials in their Episode 02 sub. -.-

If gg is consistently faster than Doki, I might make the switch over to gg and quit downloading Doki's altogether. I might also petition gg to re-edit episode 01 and cut the goddamn commercials out. If Doki turns things around though in Week 3 and releases before gg, then I'll almost certainly continue the dual-archival process.

[Talon87]

Watched Episode 02 (via gg). It was good! Not great, but I sort of expected that would be the case with this series: even if all goes according to plan, it'll be episodes 02-05 or 06 or 07 which are merely "good" as we establish things, and then it'll be 06 or 07 or 08-11 which'll be where the climax happens and the great moments start pouring forth.

Doppel's clue was so vague that I really had no idea what he meant, but I will reiterate what he wrote: episode 02 is indeed "right up our alley." I loved the attention to detail, like ...

Spoiler: show

Not only did the SNES box art look so much like Pokemon Stadium (Pokemon Stadium 2 in Japan) but it even had "The Nokémon Company" written in the upper right-hand corner in the exact same font that "The Pokémon Company" is written.

And that cel right before the commercial break where we get to see what was on Jinta's GBA SP display! Amazing homage to 3rd Gen, even if he was supposedly playing Gold and not RuSaEm. I guess they had to do enough things wrong to distinguish the homage from the real thing and to avoid a lawsuit from retardedly-protective Nintendo. But still. What a spot-on image that was.

I like Poppo. Tsuruko is written well but is difficult to like. Other stuff ...

Spoiler: show

I thought the scene where Yukiatsu sniffed some clothing (presumably Menma's!?) and thought about her was whoa-extreme on the one hand but on the other hand it really drove home the point that he really liked her as a kid and that he hasn't been able to move on past her death either, just like Jinta. I imagine this will be their point of reconciliation, assuming they do reconciliate and that Yukiatsu doesn't become something of a series antagonist.

Kind of confused why Tsuruko seemed to be so hostile towards Anaru when (from what we've seen) they were aiming for different boys and neither boy showed any interest in the other girl. Anaru liked Jintan while Tsuruko liked Yukiatsu: and both boys seemed to be infatuated with Menma. Kind of odd, then, for Tsuruko to have come on as heavy as she did with the legs-spread-open bit, although I thought that was still spot on: Anaru really does seem to have gotten mixed in with the wrong crowd. Still: better a Shibuya slut than a drug abuser. And hell: given how lighthearted and pure this show feels, it's probable that Anaru is still a virgin anyway, so maybe I should lay off the "slut" talk. (You and me both, Tsuruko! )

When the episode ended, I was predictably left wanting more. I called it last week, but this is really a series best watched in completion, not one week at a time. Or at least, that's the way I feel. But we'll make the best of this by having fun discussing it weekly.

[Doppleganger]

There were no commercials in my gg sub, so I guess gg went back and edited those back in. Typical koda antics, I'd wager.

I really appreciated the timing of this episode-

Spoiler: show

What with Pokemon B+W coming out last month, with enough bandwagoning power for even an ancient crusted player like myself to get off the couch and download an emulator. On top of that, yesterday morning I retried REW so I could replay Blue, since the monochrome days of the Gameboy games made me feel really nostalgic (same effect of B+W movies from the early part of the 20th century).

I was also really frustrated that many of the more powerful Pokemon I liked were only available through trades, so here I am envious of their capabilities with a cable for trade evolutions.

BBB said a lot of people are having fits over the "sexual tension" of Jinta and Menma, saying it's creepy/unnatural because she's like supposedly so young. I'm not bothered by it because Menma is "updated" from how she was years ago (like Ayu) and isn't conscious of anything, it's the post-puberty Jinta who's fretting over stuff. It seems kind of diabolical, but Jinta and Anaru make a legitimate pairing in the present...and I can't believe I'm saying that after being a hardcore Arashi x Hajime shipper. There needs to be more chemistry between the two shown first, though I'll probably not get the mature romance or rediscovered romance that would be acceptable for me. And the focus of this show isn't the romance anyway.

Something to consider - the timing of Menma's appearence in Jinta's life. Why now and not a year earlier, if the day or time of year is important? I have a feeling Jinta's assessment of his "stress" causing it is probably spot on, which is why he's conscious of her but no-one else, even those who want to see her like Poppo. But that can't be enough to explain it, right?

[big bad birtha]

I mostly said that to set up another "Index needs to be violated" joke.

I have an idea of what Menma's wish might be. It's probably something along the lines of "I wish we can stay friends forever." I don't believe she forgot her wish, and is just wanting to get everyone together.

Also, Anaru turned out to be surprisingly likable. Poppo was awesome as well.

[Talon87]

I think bbb is right. I've had the same thought. This would play the strongest to the "is Menma a ghost or is she just inside Jinta's head?" dual possibility theory. If it's Menma's wish, then that's fine, she's a ghost and she has this regret that when she died her death caused the gang to fall apart and so yeah, she can't move on until things get fixed. But I think it's just as (if not more?) likely that this is in Jinta's mind, and he remembers Menma's wish (despite saying to her [in his head, as per this she-exists-only-in-his-head theory] that he didn't remember her making any wish) and he regrets how things have turned out and he misses the old times, etc etc. I mean, from a selfish POV, Jinta's lost so much:
- he used to be the group leader, now he's the biggest loser
- he used to be popular with the girls (2 out of 3), now he's on track to be a virgin-for-life
- he used to be so happy, now he's so sad
- he regrets what he said to Menma the day before she died
- guys used to look up to Jinta, now at least one of them thinks Jinta's lower than shit. The other still likes him, but he seems like a pure soul, that Poppo.

It stands to reason that he, out of anybody of the living five, would want the past to return to the present once again. So it makes sense that he'd want to grant "Menma's" wish (which really may have been something she said in life) but that now it's really his wish.

That stated, I really would like Menma to be a ghost, for the others to eventually be able to see her, etc etc. I don't care for the "she's all in Jinta's head" idea. Then again, this wouldn't be the first time an author has deliberately skirted around the issue and been intentionally ambiguous about whether the ghost was real or imagined. (See: Wuthering Heights.)

===============================================

I dunno about the "OMG, ALL THIS SEX STUFF IS AWFUL" rage you're talking about, Doppel. I did see gg write on their newsblog that that they felt this way (or at least, the guy who wrote the actual update post said so), but he's just one guy, not the entire Internet. Personally? I'm in that camp. But I don't think the camp I'm in represents anything like a majority. I'd be happy if it did, of course ^^;, but somehow I doubt it.

A) I strongly disagree with you about the whole "It's okay, everything's fine, Menma's all growed up now." Like hell she's grown up. First off, her personality is 100% that of an 8-year old girl. She exhibits none of the maturity that every other character -- yes, even Poppo, in his own way -- has gone through on the journey through adolescence. Second, she is drawn SO so loli-underage. When I first saw her, I honestly thought (having already heard the premise of the story) that there she was, the 8-year-old-girl ghost. I would never have believed that she was 16 years old or so at this point. No way in hell. Short, super-flatchest, oblong head with big doe eyes (just like a child!), etc. Really, all Menma-ghost looks like is an elongated Menma-child. Whereas all the other characters are much more different physically than simply elongations of their kid selves. (And no, I don't just mean haircuts and clothes. ^^; )

B) Even if we say, "No, Talon, she is definitely animated like an adult," I'd still say that the idea of a Jinta x Menma romance creeps me out because she is mentally frozen in the mind of a child. The way she gets excited when she sees old friends isn't like how an adult would in her shoes: those inhalations of air and squeaky, high-pitched wheezes of excitement sound like a kid. The way she was all "ANARUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU tte!" to Jinta in Episode 01 over his family's kotatsu (or was it just a dinner table? at school right now, can't check) was totally a child. The "JINTAN, MADA?" to him in the stairwell in Episode 01 is like a child antsy to go to the park waiting on their mother who's still putting on her makeup or something. So on and so forth. Menma totally acts like a child. So, even if she has the body, she doesn't have the personality/mind. And so I'd still find Jinta x Menma creepy-gross.

Maybe if they can develop it, I'd change my mind: but thankfully( from my perspective), I probably won't have to worry about it: because it looks like they're planning on setting Jinta up with Anaru and Yukiatsu with Tsuruko. Poppo gets nobody but needs nobody, having already been laid (?) in Vietnam et al and being quite the catch, given his charming personality and fairly good looks. Everybody wins except the deceased -- who I imagine, as in this series, will still "win" because she didn't want romance, she wanted the gang back together again.

If the story doesn't wind Jinta up with Anaru and Yukiatsu with Tsuruko, I'll be surprised. But I think that's pretty much what we're going to see happen:
(1) Yukiatsu exploding at Jinta over who loved/deserved Menma more
(2) Tsuruko getting upset that Yukiatsu has only ever had eyes for Menma when she's been there the entire time
(3) Anaru will have a "Me, too!" moment for Jinta.
(4) Both dudes will reaize, "Oh. ..................................... Shit. "
(5) Kiss and make up with the girls, both dudes become friends again, Poppo goes abroad, the end.

It isn't the destination which will ultimately make or break this show: it's the journey. It's all in the execution. How they choose to take us through the plot points I've just lain out (or not take us through them) will matter 100x more than the actual going (or not going) through them.

[RedEevee]

good points but a few things:
1: Its OBVIOUS that menma/jinta do like each other but it would be creepy considering that she is an 8 yr old <.<

2:It is most probable than anaru and jinta will end up together, no argument there

3:If that dosent happen then its all in the air about what does happen(Which it already is,...........)

As for the sex stuff, granted its wierd but it isnt AWFUL, as well as providing humor it also shows how jinta reacts to these sorts of situations, do noone needs to get themselves in a knot about it

[Talon87]

Nah, it isn't awful (yet), but it doesn't lend anything beneficial either. If it's humor we're to say it lends, then I'd say for me at least that it lends 5 points of awkwardness and discomfort for every 1 point of humor. I'd just as soon do away with it altogether.

I've gotten five responses from five different (?) /b/tards on gg's newsblog, so I'm thinking it's a lost cause at this point to hold out hope for a commercial advertisement-free release for Episode 01: and possibly for Episode 03 and other future episodes since I imagine they'll include tons of commercials just to troll me (since Doppel informs me that's just the sort of people they are). I don't have to put up with their trolly ways -- literally! When there are two other groups subbing the show, one decent (UTW) and one pretty much just as well as the trolls themselves (Doki), why bother with being trolled? If Episode 03 does have commercials, I'mma delete it and abandon gg period. But for now, I'll give them one last chance with this one and continue to do the dual-archival setup (gg, Doki).

[lilboocorsola]

I can't resist cryptic spoilers. x.X *shot for the umpteenth time*

Man, is this going to be a trip down memory lane or what? The second episode alone has nearly made me want to give this series a gold star. It wasn't like "LOL let's throw in referential humor", but as Talon pointed out with the amazing attention to detail, it felt like a genuine tribute to the "good ol' days".

Spoiler: show

The way all the teens were so earnest about the game, it very accurately portrayed the way people act when they rediscover their inner child. My current friends and I have had so many moments like these (though we're of the type who staunchly refused to let go of childhood in the first place). Heck, just two days ago my friend randomly posted a drawing of a Cubone/Kangaskhan crossbreed to her DeviantArt. And the first comment from one of her other friends explained the theory that MissingNo was the result of a scrapped evolution line between Marowak and Kangaskhan. o.O; I know I'm rambling off-topic again, but does anyone know if this is true or not?

Ahem. Back to AnoHana. I like Menma now - definitely feel sorry for the poor, innocent girl. I'm starting to fall in love with all the characters, really. ...Although Yukiatsu had a bit of a creeper moment there. Heh. I guess I can tolerate Poppo's weird sexual outbursts. Otherwise he's exactly the fun, good-natured guy I envisioned. Like BBB mentioned, Anaru was surprisingly likeable. I loved how it turned out to be true that...

Spoiler: show

...She was a closet geek, as proven by the stacks of manga and video games hidden in her closet (even Dojimon!), and that she works at a game/video store.

What I also like/pity about Anaru is that I'm familiar with different aspects of her story all too well. In high school I was always sad to see good, fun girls I'd known in elementary school turn into valley girls who caked makeup on their faces, trying to act cool by only hanging out with their own shallow kind and putting others down. My very best friend whom I'd drifted apart from during middle school, when I saw her again in a couple years, well... *sigh* This is why I just know this series is going to hit close to home.

The other aspect of her character I can sympathize with is the jealous admiration she has for her friend. In a way, this is also why I'm willing to give Tsuruko the benefit of the doubt despite her snobby attitude. Physically and perhaps mentally she resembles myself the most, so I wanted to try and identify with her. I can see her either being jealous of Anaru, or disappointed in her, or both - which is how I've felt towards several of my friends in the past, and still somewhat in the present.

I also agree with BBB's and Talon's theories. I do think Jinta secretly wants the same thing Menma does. If anything, the fact that he seriously went through with the plan in this episode shows that he's still a kid at heart. Either in the sense that he's incredibly dumb for believing that would grant Menma's wish, or that he secretly just wanted to play some games with his friends.

I'm not discounting the possibility that Menma is really a ghost with her own desires though, given the physical evidence we've seen. But I'm pretty sure Jinta subconsciously shares those same desires, also given the physical evidence we've seen.

Originally Posted by Talon87

B) Even if we say, "No, Talon, she is definitely animated like an adult," I'd still say that the idea of a Jinta x Menma romance creeps me out because she is mentally frozen in the mind of a child. The way she gets excited when she sees old friends isn't like how an adult would in her shoes: those inhalations of air and squeaky, high-pitched wheezes of excitement sound like a kid. The way she was all "ANARUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU tte!" to Jinta in Episode 01 over his family's kotatsu (or was it just a dinner table? at school right now, can't check) was totally a child. The "JINTAN, MADA?" to him in the stairwell in Episode 01 is like a child antsy to go to the park waiting on their mother who's still putting on her makeup or something. So on and so forth. Menma totally acts like a child. So, even if she has the body, she doesn't have the personality/mind. And so I'd still find Jinta x Menma creepy-gross.

*cough* This is one of the reasons I (currently) don't support Hideki x Chii, or a lot of robot romances in general. I argued this to unownmew a while back but haven't had the courage to bring it up to you. ^^; *flees*

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

*cough* This is one of the reasons I (currently) don't support Hideki x Chii, or a lot of robot romances in general. I argued this to unownmew a while back but haven't had the courage to bring it up to you. ^^; *flees*

I can see this complaint, but I don't think Chii's in the same camp as Menma. Chii feels more like someone who is being reborn: she's more like Spock in Star Trek III than she is like Menma. As the show progresses and she develops more and more, she becomes less childlike and more young adult-like. The thing is, the most childish aspect to Chii's character is one which we miss in adults and admire when we do find it in adults -- and that is her perpetual bemusement at life. Everything fascinates her. She has a, as the saying goes, "childlike innocence" about her. But does this make her behaviorally child-like? Only partially. Or at least, to me and probably to unownmew, only partially. To you, it may be what drives her into the childlike state of mind camp, plopping her right down next to Menma.

Have you seen Elfen Lied? I think that Nyuu and Chii are very very similar characters and I'd be interested/surprised to hear you say that you think Nyuu, too, is in the same boat as Menma. (EDIT: If you haven't seen Elfen Lied, here's a good and pretty darn spoiler-free sample of Nyuu's behavior.) Whereas Chii and Nyuu are childlike because of their amnesia/completely wiped-clean slates, Menma is childlike because she is a child. Perhaps that subtlety is not so subtle to my brain or to unownmew's but is too subtle to yours to be acceptable. *shrug*