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Old 01-06-2018, 10:26 PM   #1
Marion Ette
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Hydreigon Reassessing the Bond Mechanic

Everyone,

Though I am no longer acting officially in a moderating capacity, I do believe the time has come to re-open discussion regarding the current Bond System. In the spirit of continuous reassessment, this FB mechanic should be placed back in the public eye for scrutiny, as I believe that a number of members would appreciate efforts to further simplify it.

Concerns that have been brought up in the Discord discussion relate to:

1) Ease of use,
2) Linking, and
3) The burden on SOs to keep this system updated.

If you identify an additional concern, feel free to bring it up.

For reference, here are the current mechanics:

Quote:
Gummis and Bond

The road to becoming a Pokemon Master is tough. Sometimes there are hardships and obstacles along the way that try to knock you and your Pokemon down and send you home. However, you may find that through persevering and overcoming these challenges, you and your Pokemon come out stronger and closer than before. Maybe your Pokemon has previously closed off its heart and taken on a Shadow-like form and you would like to rehabilitate it. Maybe your Pokemon is only capable of evolving and growing stronger if you form a strong connection with them by raising their happiness. All of these things can be tracked here in the Fizzy Candy Store by using a metric known as Bond.

The Fizzy Candy Store has been known to produce a specific kind of treat that all kinds of Pokemon find irresistible. These treats are known as Gummis and when fed to Pokemon, they are filled with joy. Feeding your Pokemon Gummis is a surefire way to speed up the process of winning their hearts over. With a variety of flavors, certain Gummis will supply increased levels of potency towards raising your Pokemon’s Bond level.

Rules:
1. When raising your Pokemon’s Bond level, please use the charts below for calculating conversion rates or Gummi increases.
2. Please only make one post to record your Bond transactions per each time the shop is updated and confirmed.
3. If you are using Gummis obtained outside of this shop, please link to where said Gummi was originally obtained. The older Type-Based Gummis are now all treated the same as a Yummi Gummi.
4. Pokemon increase Bond by +1 for every post they are used in a zone. Please link your replies when logging Bond increments in this thread. You may backlog your zone posts as early as April 18th, 2017.
5. IQ, Tameness, and Purification stats are officially outdated. Please state your Pokemons’ previous values if applicable when using the chart below to convert them into Bond points.

Gaining Bond:
+1 per Yummi Gummi (Older Type-Based Gummis fall under this category)
+3 per Birthday Cake Gummi
+5 per Mysterious Gummi (Gummis can also be called any number of different confectionary items for the same effects)
+1 per post in an Adventure
+2 per post in an Adventure for Pokemon stored inside of a Friend Ball or Agate Ball
+10 for Pokemon stored inside of a Luxury Ball

Conversions:
1 Happiness point = 3 Bond Points
1 IQ point = 1 Bond Point
1 Purification Point = 1 Bond Point
Pokemon with 50 or more IQ are considered to have max Bond.

Bonuses:
-20: Your Pokemon could not hate you more if it tried. It has become a SHADOW of its former self, and will be recolored to show this. It will obtain a shadow aura, as well. FRUSTRATION is at its maximum power. Shadow Pokémon have a substantial chance (roughly 35-50%) of either completely ignoring their trainer’s orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Freshly obtained Shadow Pokemon (from events and whatnot) start at this level. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. Shadow Pokemon are able to learn Shadow Moves at the MT.

-15: Your Pokemon has a significant chance (roughly 25-35%) of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-10: Your Pokemon has a slight chance (roughly 10-25%) of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-5: Your Pokemon has a very slight chance (roughly 0-10%) of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use.

0: Your Pokemon is neutral toward you. No benefits or drawbacks at this level. Shadow Pokemon are reverted to normal when they reach or exceed 0, UNLESS a fee of $1000 is paid for psychological stabilization, which will allow them to keep their shadow form and utilize shadow moves with bond at or above 0. Non-shadow Pokemon start here by default.

10: Your Pokemon can utilize the Move Relearner.

20: Your Pokemon can utilize any TM - even those outside its species limitations. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

30: Happiness evolutions can occur at this stage. The Pokemon can learn custom move Gummi Bomb OR an EM/MT move of choice. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

40: The Pokemon can learn custom move Guardian Terrain OR an Advanced/Shadow move of choice. Advanced moves can now be learned by this Pokemon at the MT. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

50: MAXIMUM. Daycare levels earned for this Pokemon are doubled. This Pokemon will earn a special aura for being max Bond. Pokemon at both max level and max Bond learn custom move Defensive Shield OR one Advanced/Shadow move & one EM/MT move. RETURN is at maximum power. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:45 PM   #2
Emi
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Here's my opinion on bond:

-Remove the gating from the Move Relearner and from unnatural moves

-Reduce the Happiness Evolution cap to 15-20

-Remove the ability to learn Shadow Moves. That never made sense.

-Reduce the cap to 35-40

-Possibly remove Gummies from the game, and possibly remove the necessity to link
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:46 PM   #3
Heather
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As I mentioned in Discord, if it were feasible, the best way in my mind to manage this would be if we could make Bond be self-contained within adventures themselves as that's where most of the relevant posting happens. At that point, need for linking would hopefully be minimal if at all present, and rather than being a potentially giant post full of mostly nothing for an SO to trawl through, you instead just have updators making an additional side note to their updates.

However, one of the sticky points of thisis that we've thrown happiness evolutions into this system. If we pull them out, then really the only use we have for the system beyond a bunch of arbitrary things we threw in that didn't need to be there would be the negative portion of the scale for Shadow Pokemon, because we would ideally need some way to quantify purification unless we wanted to make Time Flutes Zone rewards that you get for adventuring with a Shadow Pokémon enough. In other words, if we tie happiness evos to something else and simplify how we do Shadow Pokémon since we seem to want to keep them around, what actual need do we have for Bond at that point? The answer is no need at all-because every other thing tied to Bond was just arbitrarily thrown in.

So to clarify, if we want to keep a Bond system going, we should try to keep it contained within adventures rather than being a shop stat, but I'm more for separating the two necessary things from it and just junking it outright.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:51 PM   #4
Jerichi
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I might post more later but I really don't care that much about specific systems.

However, I think it's worth me noting that having an SO review bond seems like it doesn't actually achieve much and is just another non-RP thing that creates a timesink and personhour drain for FB.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:04 PM   #5
lilboocorsola
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Lol is this bc I waited so long to do all my Bond conversions at once? *shot*

Honestly I don't have as much of a problem with it now that I've finally done all the hard work and I can just update as I go along from now on, but it is daunting at first. It does get confusing with linking in terms of teaching unnatural Moves, as I had to do so recently with my Wynaut and realized I'd pretty much have to do that anytime I taught him anything. OTL So I'd be down for doing away with Bond restrictions on Moves, as well as Emi's other suggestions to simplify things.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:13 PM   #6
Nerd Violence
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Honestly, I'm fine with bond the way it is, but I suspect I'm in the minority. I'm not saying it's flawless, but it's sort of a don't-fix-what-ain't-broke scenario.

Requiring SO confirmation on bond does seem like a time sink and undermines the atmosphere of player trust we tried to establish following the restructuring, but it's not something I'm willing to fight over either way.

Self-serving opinion: I really like having access to double daycare levels at max bond and I'd hate to lose that in a system overhaul. Greedy? Totes. Sorry, not sorry.

I'd be fine with removing move restrictions/dropping Shadow Move access though.

It'd be nice if we could get AMs in the Move Tutor.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:32 PM   #7
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I'm in favor of removing the restriction on unnatural TMs and the move relearner. Honestly, my biggest complaint about Bond? It should have its own thread, separate from the Candy shop. It's a bit cluttered, in my opinion, and sometimes I gotta wade through a bunch of bond confirmation posts just to use some Rare Candies, or vice versa. I got no problem with Bond having to be confirmed by an SO, though- helps us to avoid mistakes. Nor do I have a problem with the other perks of Bond- as stated earlier, the only one I'm in favor of doing away with are the move restrictions.

And... I'm kinda in favor of keeping the Shadow moves. Not gonna lie, much of this is coming from personal preference, but it's where I stand on this regardless.

Honestly, overall, I've had no big problems with Bond. Daunting though it was to convert the Happiness and IQ of every single one of my Pokémon into Bond, that had more to do with how many Pokémon I have, as opposed to some sort of issue with the mechanic itself. I think we did pretty good when we first made Bond a thing, and I see no real reason for any sort of major overhaul.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:08 AM   #8
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Hello! So here's my personal take(s?) about the whole thing.


In general, I admit that part of me does find the whole process tiring, but not just in terms of the linking (as many SOs know, I am terrible at linking OTL); it's also terms of reaching some core mechanic things (ie evolutions). Maybe I'm a bit of a minority for the latter part because I do not post a lot (I'm restricted on posting about one RPed post a week, thanks for being a dam slow writer and having a full-time job), but it's still something, and it took me longer than I thought it would to be able to raise my Pokémon's happiness to evolve. The experience was in all honestly exhausting and even boring RP-wise as I was forced to RP with my happiness-evolving Pokémon in everything to get those Bond points instead of using the actual Pokémon I want to use in the RPing.

But on the other hand, keeping track of things is kinda part of something I like about FB. One reason I have joined here originally was because I wanted somewhere that had a balance between RPing freely and track your stuff you accumulate over time as a more "concrete proof", that not only that you actually have that stuff/"abilities" (and not something that you go "oh I just happened to have this thing that completely resolves the plot!") but also as a personal achievement of seeing what you have accumulated and/or grown.


So all and all, I'm on the fence on how we should approach this ^^; But here's some thoughts/ideas that I have on top of my head:


"Small nuke" option: By "nuke" I mean "get rid of anything Bond", but by small I mean "not quite". Let me explain: Bond wouldn't be no longer a thing. However, good ol' Zone RPing could be used for anything that would actually/normally need Bond to do. As in, you have a whole adventure which the goal/reward would be to to either turning a Shadow Pokémon into a normal one, or to evolve a Pokémon via Happiness. Going on that route, Bond is no longer needed to keep track of, and yet the game mechanics in terms of friendship are still present. (And bonus points that it is through RP.) The downside is that the things we have added into the Bond system is gone too (chance of Pokémon disobeying, bonuses, etc.)


Cleanup option: It's basically very similar to Emi's idea; Keep the Bond system, but make it more simple to keep track of and removing unnecessary stuff. In my personal opinion, those would be the ideal changes:
- Removal of learning shadow moves in positive Bond levels.
- Removal of Move Relearner barrier (as now moves are harder to miss, the relearner doesn't have as much use now anyways)
- Removal of all-TM learning barrier (I believe we used to be able to use any TM at anytime, so *shrugs*)
- Lowering maximum Bond to 30 (less exhausting to reach)
- Put happiness-based evolutions to 10
- Put Guardian Terrain/free Advanced move to 20
- Put all max. Bond bonuses to 30
- Have keeping track of Bond in shop optional instead of required, similar to Rare Candies (those who doesn't want to track it doesn't need to anymore, while those who wants to still can)
- Gummis are still present and effects of Pokéballs still in effect, but numbers of Bond gained to be lowered (to reflect the changes of lowering the max. Bond. I also want to keep them because in my personal opinion, any little non-RP Bond I was able to get were an Arceusend. Then again... this is in the current system.)
Following that, we are still keeping the current system with its rewards, and simplifying it for everyone to keep track of (or doesn't need to track if they don't want to!). That said, it makes those rewards easier to get or even automatically given, and there is still a minimum of bookkeeping (even if it is reduced).
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:14 AM   #9
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Sandaa and I talked about Bond being in its own thread before, and we also talked about Bond being in a BMG thread. Still not sure about moving it to BMG yet, but it probably does deserve its own thread.

As for simplifying Bond, what I would do something similar to Emi's idea. I would definitely remove the Bond restriction on the Move Relearner, no reason for it to be in place. Then lower all the Bond reward tiers by 10, lower the maximum amount to 40, then have Mysterious Gummis only give 4 Bond. Also, no need for the Shadow Moves either in the higher Bond rewards, so I wouldn't feel too bad if they left the system.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:25 PM   #10
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I honestly don't have any issue with the system as is. I can't stand linking tonnes of stuff, it was one of the things that kept me out of Fizzy Bubbles but I honestly don't consider linking bond to be that hard of a task. I think there are probably more important things to concentrate on.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:32 PM   #11
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Linking Bond is hardly any more of a hassle than linking for the 250 unless you're on mobile. It's literally a couple of extra copypastas.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:42 PM   #12
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I've been FB'ing from mobile pretty consistently since August. Linking anything on mobile is a bigger hassle than it would be on desktop, sure, but it's still super doable.

Some people seem to want to lower the max bond value and I'm wondering if there would be reimbursement in some form for Pokémon that already reached max bond in that case, because resources (gummis, balls, etc) would have been used in excess at that point.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:46 PM   #13
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I've never had a problem with the linking aspect of Bond. It really isn't any different than claiming Pokédollars from zone replies. I mean, granted, I never really had a problem with all the linking FB used to require (in fact, I still link to where moves were learned, evolutions happened, captures occurred, etc., in my member post, though this is less out of necessity and more for the sake of anyone who wants to see where something happened or whatever), either, but yeah, even with the addition of linking for Bond, things are way easier in that regard than they used to be.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:06 PM   #14
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As the person who has been left in charge of running Bond confirmations I would like to share a few thoughts regarding a few points that have been brought up. I want to preface this by stating that this discussion comes from my observations about Bond at the present moment. Additionally, these are strictly my own opinions; they do not reflect that of the moderating staff and I leave discussion open for more alternative solutions if people wish to present them. My last point before I get started is that Bond/IQ has had a rocky past as far as discussions go. I am reaching out to each and everyone here that we please keep discussion civil, no matter how differing your opinions might be. At the end of the day there is no singular correct solution so the moderating staff and I won’t simply deal with this one way or another. We might end up taking bits and pieces from different sides of everyone’s opinions or reaching an entirely middling compromise in other aspects altogether.

1. Removal of the Move-Relearner and Unnatural TM gate at 10 and 20 Bond & Reduction of Bond’s maximum from 50 to 40 or lower.
While I am willing to listen to others’ opinions regarding desire to have these things remove and lowered, I am under the personal belief that as the ladder currently stands things have been working perfectly fine and there is no need to change them. Before people insist that they want to have their cake and eat it too, let me just rehash the original reasoning why the 10 and 20 bond tiers were set up. One of the strongest selling points of FB is how players are able to take part in it virtually however they want to take it. For those who thrive in realism, they can adhere to the laws set up by the games themselves or even the physics of real life and how they want to fit the Pokemon world into that. On the other hand, it’s also a place where players can customize Pokemon, grow them beyond their natural limits, recolor them, introduce special characteristics (within reason, see the Boutique for more details), and even teach them attacks that would otherwise never be accessible to certain Pokemon. The compromise (and I cannot understate that word enough) was that some of these things like unnatural movesets were gated at an extremely manageable level of 10 or 20 Bond. If you think about it, all that takes is a Luxury Ball or just the use of a few Gummis or zone posts to achieve. It’s really not hard at all to accomplish. My bottom line here is that unless a vast majority of members are willing to let go of that compromise, I don’t see the reason in changing things.

As for the reduction of the maximum Bond from 50 to 30 or 40, I do not see that working under any circumstance. Once again, let’s go back to the reason why the Bond ladder was set up in the first place. We were looking to simplify the number of extraneous systems in FB such as Happiness/Beauty Points and IQ, and with a large number of members unwilling to see their accumulated stats go away, we worked towards a compromise (I am again stressing that word hard) in order to achieve a goal all sides could accept. As seen in the original discussion here and here, we pooled together everybody’s ideas of what they wanted to see in a Bond system and worked it out onto a ladder that worked. Ultimately people agreed on the final result, so I do not see a reason why this needs to change. I will touch on this again in the next point, but other than the very achievable unnatural move tier (see above) and Happiness-based evolutions, Bond is ultimately an optional function of FB. Once you have gotten to 30 bond for Happiness Based evolutions, you really have no reason to further keep track of bond unless you have a desire to take part in the optional tiers at 40 and 50. If the reasoning to want to remove the 40 and 50 tiers is because you think they are unnecessary, then I would flatly refuse to remove them solely for the reasons Tate listed: reimbursement/compensation. Due to how messy it will become if we look to lower the cap and how unfair it would become for those who would not be able to receive such benefits that others have achieved over the past months, I cannot in good conscience move to a solution that changes the cap from where it’s presently at.
2. The Happiness Evolution level at 30 Bond
So here’s the argument that was brought up on discord before: If Bond is supposed to be optional, why have things that are not optional such as happiness-based evolutions included in it?

As I stated before, when we were creating Bond, the purpose was to reduce the number of extraneous numerical systems in FB, and that included the Happiness/Beauty Point stat. As it came up in discussion, 30 was a good number to go with for Happiness-based evolutions, and when deciding upon how to calculate past Beauty Points into the Bond equation, we decided on 3 Bond points for every 1 Beauty Point, meaning a maximum of 10 Beauty Points equated to 30 Bond. Beauty Points have been around in FB as long as I have (2004) and is a system that’s a big part of our game as well as the overarching Pokemon universe. With the very simple equation of converting past Beauty Points into Bond, Happiness essentially has not changed one bit from how it was previously constructed, it just falls under a larger umbrella now. The only difference is that there is no longer a shop dedicated to increasing Beauty Points, something the community in large agreed on when it came to reducing the “shop simulator” culture that FB had become.

The question I would like to ask to those of you who wish to separate Happiness from Bond is this: If you never had a problem with Beauty Points in the previous system, what is it about Happiness falling under the Bond umbrella that raises the desire for separation? Is it because you think increasing Bond is a chore and wish to go back to the previous way where Happiness was gained solely from a weekly shop? If the answer is yes, then I will address that further in the final bullet point. If your answer is no, and you wish to remove the need for a stat to dictate a Happiness-based evolution, then I think we’re moving into an entirely different subject about what it means to evolve a Pokemon in FB versus evolving a Pokemon in the overarching Pokemon universe and requires its own thread.
3. Removal of Gummis from FB/Reduction of their effects.
It is no secret that Bond has in large part become a matter of how quickly you can stuff your Pokemon into a Luxury Ball and how many gummis you can feed your Pokemon. That was not the intended purpose when we set up the guidelines of how Bond was to be acquired. We have already begun making steps towards balancing these issues out; such as raising the price of Luxury Balls and reducing their effect from 15 to 10 Bond as well as reducing the effect of Birthday Gummis from 3 to 2 Bond. Ideally we would like to see Bond be increased by the work and effort of roleplaying with your Pokemon through a zone adventure rather than just cramming items onto the Pokemon. This is an easy fix and I would be very open to the reduction of Mysterious Gummis’ effect from +5 Bond to +3 or 4 instead.

If you wish to remove Gummis altogether, that’s going to open a whole different can of worms. Going back to the word Tate used, I think of “reimbursement.” People have saved up large stocks of Gummis, and while they’re not being given out at every corner like they used to, it’s unfair to tell people to throw out their saved-up balances. I ask that if you wish to see Gummis go, please offer a solution of how to either cash-in old Gummis or replace them with something else.

The last thing I would like to cover on this subject is the hypothetical scenario if we were to in fact remove Gummis altogether. Say the only way to increase Bond outside of Luxury/Friend Balls is through the natural method of interacting with your Pokemon through zone adventures. What happens if your zone updates slow down and your updater goes missing? It would be unfair to prevent people from being able to evolve their Pokemon because they are unable to progress in their zones. There needs to be an accessible alternative.
4. Removal of the option to learn 1 Shadow Move at the 40 and 50 Bond tiers.
I apologize if I sound like a broken record, but I will reiterate much of what I said on the first bullet point. A big part of the compromise (I’m going to keep using that word) when Bond was created was that we would integrate a number of extraneous numerical systems in FB. Another one of those systems was shadow Pokemon purification points. When we asked the community what kinds of things we wanted to pool together into the new Bond system (again, please refer to the two links I provided in the first bullet point), the acquisition of Shadow moves was a big part of that. (For the record, I was in the minority of people who did not want to include Shadow moves. But in the end I was willing to concede that point for the sake of compromise.) Once again I’m repeating myself, but Shadow Moves are only obtained on the 40 and 50 Bond tiers, which are completely optional. Additionally, you have other choices of moves to learn at those tiers. There are Advanced Moves like Blast Burn/Draco Meteor, and there are Custom Moves like Guardian Terrain and Defensive Shield. In all honesty, let those who want to learn shadow moves continue to be able to do so and if you don’t want to then you have options to learn something else. Or just stop counting bond after 30, it really doesn’t make a difference.
5. How Bond functions as a shop-upkeep. (How links are dealt with, where Bond is currently located, etc)
This is the topic where I think my opinion is most needed, considering I am the person who keeps track of bond confirmations in the Fizzy Candy Store. First of all, I would like to address this so-called “burden on the SO” because no one has actually asked me how I feel about doing bond confirmations. As the system is currently constructed, I have no problems with checking people’s links and I’m able to get through a week or two’s worth of updates in a very timely manner. So if you’re looking to ease my workload under the system that is currently in place, I say thank you for your concern but I am capable of handling it as it is.

That being said, I am here and I am listening to your concerns and feedback, and it is much welcomed. If people think it’s too confusing to keep both candies and Bond in the same shop, splitting the two into separate shops can be easily arranged. The reason why GS and I combined the two into one shop to begin with was because I was under the impression that Gummis would eventually be sold in the Candy Shop, so it made sense to put Bond there as well. Let’s say we agree for me to move Bond into its own shop and look to reduce the impact of Gummis on FB as stated before. Would you like to see a Bond Store open and offer Bond Points a week, much like the Beauty Salon acted before?

Now for the final bugaboo: links. I think this is where discussion gets the most divisive. There are kind of two opposing factions here; those who think linking isn’t very hard and not very time consuming and those who think linking is a chore and extremely time consuming. When we started things fresh with FB last year, one of the big things we looked to change was the heavy amount of things that were previously required to link. For the most part, the overall amount of links being asked of each individual is astronomically lower than before and FB’s been much better off because of it. However, there have been a few places where it’s been asked, and those places are almost exclusively shops. The reason for this is not because the Shop Owners don’t trust the players to lie or cheat or anything like that. It’s because if you want to run a game that has an economy, it’s going to be a requirement that there are people like SOs to make sure that stores continue to function. Asking for people to link to their posts is not to put a pair of handcuffs on the player and force them to play by the rules; it’s to help out the individuals who volunteered their own free time to help make sure the game runs smoothly. It is incredibly time-saving to have everyone’s links right in front of me when I do bond confirmations for a job that could take hours otherwise. The immediate response to that is “Well Gary, you could just trust the players to do the right thing and not check links at all.” Like I said before, it’s not a matter of trust; it’s a matter of making sure and helping guide people to make sure they’re not making mistakes in their calculations. Trust me, people make mistakes, every single week. And it’s not just counting Bond where they’re not supposed to. I also check to make sure if people accidentally short themselves on Bond and I correct them there as well. That’s my job and I take pride in it.

I know it’s a hassle to have to link your zone replies in multiple places (bank, bond, etc); I’m well aware of how much of a chore it can seem sometimes. So as we discuss possible alternatives to possibly reduce the areas where links are required, I humbly ask that you please keep the job of the person in charge of checking Bond values in mind.


That just about wraps up my thoughts on the discussion of Bond. I know I wrote a lot, but I hope that if you really care about discussing this subject that you take the time to read through it as I have taken the time to go through your feedback and write it. Before I finish, I would like to address a few individual comments below, and I ask once again that we PLEASE keep discussion civil.
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Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
I might post more later but I really don't care that much about specific systems.

However, I think it's worth me noting that having an SO review bond seems like it doesn't actually achieve much and is just another non-RP thing that creates a timesink and personhour drain for FB.
Seeing as you were the person who opened up this discussion on discord, I am sincerely hoping that you offer more input of what kinds of changes you think could come out of this discussion. When you say things like you “don’t really care” and then make opinions about not liking something you haven’t even tried yet, it bothers me a little. I know you’re not alone in this line of thinking so I am speaking to everyone here. I know a few of FB’s older members who aren’t as active anymore, if at all, might not like some of these changes that have been going on in FB, but I assure you that everything we do is taking a step towards progress. It might not be perfect, but we’re trying to get there slowly but surely. I also cannot stress this enough because I welcome all feedback; whether the member is active or not, but I wish that people would elaborate more when presenting a concern. Without any further context, all I see is a debate between someone who is actively playing the game versus the observation of someone who is watching from afar and is not actively playing the game. Naturally I’m going to lean towards making the experience better for those who are active and want to make a change that will benefit their lifestyle of play. If there is something that I can do to make people who used to play FB come back and play once again, I am sincerely wishing to listen and help work to make that happen.
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Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post
Lol is this bc I waited so long to do all my Bond conversions at once? *shot*
I realize you are joking here, but I just want to clarify that your bond conversions did not bring this about and were no trouble to me at all. I most definitely don’t want anyone to feel singled out or anything like that. Bond can be a bit confusing at first, but once you get it down and fall into the routine of actively updating it, it gets really simple. I think the people who find the most trouble with it are the ones who don’t bother to routinely check and update their bond values.
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Originally Posted by Gemini Spark View Post
Sandaa and I talked about Bond being in its own thread before, and we also talked about Bond being in a BMG thread. Still not sure about moving it to BMG yet, but it probably does deserve its own thread.

As for simplifying Bond, what I would do something similar to Emi's idea. I would definitely remove the Bond restriction on the Move Relearner, no reason for it to be in place. Then lower all the Bond reward tiers by 10, lower the maximum amount to 40, then have Mysterious Gummis only give 4 Bond. Also, no need for the Shadow Moves either in the higher Bond rewards, so I wouldn't feel too bad if they left the system.
As I mentioned above, I think it could be beneficial to split Bond from the Candy Store, although I don’t know if moving it to BMG would be a good idea right now. I stated my reasoning for Unnatural TMs in the bullet points above, but I would agree that the parts I underlined in your quote can be worked out without too much effort. As long as we keep the integrity of the ladder from 20 and above, I don’t mind shifting it because it would not result in anybody losing out on anything. Even if it means that Happiness-based evolutions’ requirement gets moved down from 30 to 20 I would be okay with that too, as long as the scale of BP conversions are properly adjusted. The only issue that would arise from this is that we would be asking the entire active FB community to adjust all of their Pokemons’ bond values and lower them by 10 each (except for those with less than 10 bond) which could become more time consuming. If everyone agrees to it though I would be willing to cooperate as the SO.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:04 PM   #15
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Just sliding in to say that I more or less think Gary has a good perspective on this, in my opinion.

Beyond that, I'd also like to see Bond split into its own shop.

That my pointless addition.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:30 PM   #16
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I was a little bit hasty in my input to this thread and posted at midnight while I was working on other FB things should have clarified that my idea was what I would do if I had to change things. I'm fine if things do change and can totally adjust if we lower the cap to 40 Bond and go with a flat -10 Bond (min. 0 for non Shadow Pokemon of course) to everyone since that would be the least intrusive option possible, but if things don't change that'd be fine too. And like Sandaa posted above, moving Bond to its own thread wouldn't really be for either of our benefits but more for those using both Candies and Gummis since they've had to make separate posts for both, which many people have said gets confusing after a while.
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