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Old 03-16-2015, 08:26 PM   #3926
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The aroma cards you listed? More details but in general, I don't do well breaking established fields. Since Stardust Stun is a stun deck, the intent is to colonize the field and then defend it until the opponent dies.

Synchros in general don't do well against established fields outside of Trishula and BRD.
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Old 03-16-2015, 08:50 PM   #3927
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I meant Red-Eyes Super Burn Dragon. ;p
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Old 03-16-2015, 09:01 PM   #3928
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If that were the only monster, I'd have a decent chance of skirting around it. BOM and Hanewata would thwart death by burn with only singed toenails.

The problem is the 2800 attack, which as I mentioned is an issue. My only options for breaking through that are Clausolas, BLS and Scrap Dragon suicide.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:45 PM   #3929
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TCG Banlist is out:

Forbidden:
Blaster, Dragon Ruler of Infernos
Redox, Dragon Ruler of Boulders
Tempest, Dragon Ruler of Storms
Tidal, Dragon Ruler of Streams
Snatch Steal

Limited:
Sinister Serpent
Tour Guide from the Underworld
Dragon Ravine
Preparation of Rites
Saqlifice
Symbol of Heritage
Temple of Kings
Crush Card Virus
Exchange of the Spirit
Ring of Destruction
Skill Drain
Vanity's Emptiness

Semi-Limited:
Qliphort Scout
Nekroz of Brionac
Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En
Charge of the Light Brigade
Sacred Sword of Seven Stars

Unlimited:
Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Spirit
Burner, Dragon Ruler of Sparks
Gladiator Beast Bestiari
Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
Lightning, Dragon Ruler of Drafts
Lonefire Blossom
Reactan, Dragon Ruler of Pebbles
Stream, Dragon Ruler of Droplets
Goyo Guardian
Hieratic Seal of Convocation

I enjoy this list. I enjoy it a lot.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:51 PM   #3930
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RIP Dragon Rulers ;_;

Let's see what I can think of to replace them...
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:57 PM   #3931
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The lack of Chaos Emperor Dragon makes my future Seraph Dolls deck really sad. So does Shock Master but I didn't expect that to get unbanned.

This list was cool because it did a lot of buffing which I liked, and it gave a slap on the wrist for Nekroz, Qliphort, and Burning Abyss. Limiting my waifu makes me sad though.

Full power Glad Beasts (lol) and 3-Axis are interesting. The former is never going to be a thing but the latter pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin for 4-Axis, which I imagine is never going to be played again. Not while full power Tellars are a thing. Then you have Dragon Ravine and Sacred Sword for the future Red-Eyes deck, and Charge for Infernoids. Sams get a boost but the deck is still irrelevant without Gateway. Of course all the errata is interesting especially since Ring is back. That's nuts.
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Old 03-20-2015, 05:35 PM   #3932
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List didn't do enough, although I really like how I'm nearly invulnerable to Crush Card, but can run it like a one-sided Torrential. It's too bad Level Eater can't be used with it.

With ROD as a near staple, Forbidden Lance might be a thing again.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:03 PM   #3933
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It definitely didn't do much for Nekroz and Burning Abyss, but that's completely a given. Qliphort stopped getting support and hence was given a harsh slap on the wrist while Burning Abyss is confirmed for still having more support and Secret Forces is still selling like hotcakes.

I mean ultimately, everyone has a different idea on what makes an ideal format. For some people its DUEA meta, for others its the meta after PRIO. For some its Goat. Ultimately, this list still adds a balance to the game even if it might make Nekroz more overbearing than it already was.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:26 PM   #3934
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I guess Upstart Goblin is right, we are moving into a set rotation without being told we are.

Still waiting for Trishula.

Forever waiting.
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:47 PM   #3935
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I saw someone running Synchron Exodia? I'm the only one I'm aware of to run the deck, but this guy's build was totally different from mine.

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Old 03-20-2015, 11:02 PM   #3936
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That doesn't look like Synchron Exodia at all.

It looks like Bunilla OTK
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Old 03-21-2015, 09:36 AM   #3937
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Man I just realized the worst thing about Star Seraph dolls.

The mirror is going to be so fucking lolzy like its going to be who summons Diamond first.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:10 PM   #3938
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Now this is what I'm talking about!



It wasn't an extended loop, but the idea is mostly solid. You Synchro Summon until you dead-end on Traps or Quick-plays. Since the quality of my cards is rather poor, I need the more powerful backrow to really make up for it.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:12 PM   #3939
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How has Accel Synchron been working? I remember you saying it wasn't that good when you first saw it.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:36 PM   #3940
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It's a very good albeit dedication heavy card, but it needs Doppelwarrior to shine. With Doppelwarrior, Junk Synchron and Unknown Synchron it gives access to Level 7, Level 8 (+1), Level 10 (+3), and Level 3 (-3). Going down to Level 1 (possible only after using Level Eater) allows you to loop through Formula and Tatsunoko twice.

The "once per turn" restriction on Synchro Summoning it was meant to prevent Level Eater abuse, but Doppelwarrior is just as good.

Unfortunately, the best Synchron for use with it, Quickdraw, is too poopy to run as a main deck monster.
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Last edited by Doppleganger; 03-21-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:02 PM   #3941
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Not sure why you would want to use Quickdraw Synchron, it doesn't give you any good levels-oh wait is it for CyDra Infinity access?
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:57 PM   #3942
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I did run it for Infinity access, and I've seen legit CyDra decks run it and Galaxy Soldier for that same reason. As said earlier also, using it as send fodder for Accel Synchron allows for a much stronger loop. And, it seems like just seeing Quickdraw conditions some players to auto-scoop. Especially if Level Eater is already in the grave, and Librarian and Formula are standing on the field.

The main issue with running Quickdraw - even for Infinity - is deck dedication. Same problem with pure Synchrons or Quickdraw Dandy. You need two slots for Infinity, which severely limits both loop and toolbox access. It was fine when I ran Volcasaurus/Gaia Dragon, because Volcasaurus can instigate OTK's, but Infinity isn't like that. It's a passive stun card and frankly building a deck around it is stupid in this day and age.

I think the frustrating part with the Synchron support cards, and Synchron members, is the cards have so many inane restrictions to go along with their low power levels and high vulnerabilities. Tuning is an all-around terrible card and I've struggled with wanting to ditch it, but I've not found anything good enough as a substitute.

Then we get to how the deck is extremely responsive, meaning it's a tough sell to break into an established field, or dodge a monster floodgate. I'm really proud of my deck but dealing with decks like Spirit Beasts and Raid Raptors really hits home that I have to drop unfair loops all the time to win the battle. Or use Soul Charge. Luckily I'm one of the few decks that can abuse Soul Charge, like Infernity could.
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:20 AM   #3943
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For those of you who want to know (Kin don't click):

Arc-V Spoilers
Spoiler: show
The Synchro Dimension is confirmed for being 5Ds. Jack and Crow are coming in Arc-V.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:22 PM   #3944
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So I just dueled a guy that had a god opening hand. He went first. He Normal Summons Goblindbergh, Special Summons Kagetokage, and XYZ's to make Number 39: Utopia. He equips ZW - Lighting Blade and ZW - Tornado Bringer from his hand. He then sets a card.

I had Dark Hole and double MST (which was a pretty lucky hand too, admittedly). I knew I couldn't MST because of his ZW's so I Dark Hole'd, planning on that getting rid of Lighting Blade so I could MST Tornado Bringer and then actually play my game. Well, that set card turned out to be Utopian Aura so I thought I was screwed. Luckily, through the power of Mermails I was able to stall for a long time. Utopia was the only monster he ever actually summoned and I was able to get out Dracossack, whose tokens really helped me stall. He actually ended up equipping ZW-Eagle Claw too so he had a monster with 7000 attack that was immune to targeting, being destroyed by card effects, immune to traps, and could negate attacks.

I was able to stall long enough to draw Raigeki. That got rid of his Lightning Blade, and then I was able to get rid of Tornado Bringer and Eagle Claw, steal his Utopia with Number 101, and end up getting the OTK. Probably one of the most nuts comebacks I've ever made.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:15 PM   #3945
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I think this duel is a perfect example of why XYZs are cancer, and why they more than any other card type have been a factor with regards to power creep. That, and the impact of spammable beatstick monsters and searchers. But Dragon Rulers wouldn't be a quarter as deadly if Rank 7 XYZs didn't exist.



Counter decking is interesting because even in cases where the advantage evens itself out, the "soft" advantage, information or momentum gains can add up to a passive win. If I didn't stop the Chidori, I would have lost. If I didn't stop Zerofyne, I would have lost just as easily. Decks with hands like this, or decks like say Heraldic Beasts, put a huge pressure on you to counter their every play, because they can just minus themselves as much as they want and have easy access to explosive cards. Cards that, if you do not have an immediate answer, you will likely lose.

I think the luckiest part of this duel was, this guy had me go first, and my opening was:

Junk Synchron, Doppelwarrior, Tuning x2, Effect Veiler

I know the odds, so normally I would have scooped with a first-turn opening that bad, but I took the risk anyway and used the Tunings to mill a Hanewata. It was mostly luck, but I calculated that too. And only because of that, I was able to defeat a guy who basically had 5 live cards in his hand (HHG, three Elegant Egotist, Harpie Dancer).

Incidentally, his set was Hysteric Sign. If I didn't MST the HHG I would have been super toast.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:26 PM   #3946
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Plant Drulers and SkillDrain.dek still would have been tough to beat over.

>3 Elogant Egotist

...*sigh* There is no need for three its searchable AND recyclable. Use two at the max. People who don't know how to deck build and luck the fuck out are not good examples of anything.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:35 PM   #3947
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I don't doubt that, but they would have been significantly weaker without the XYZs, and it would have more easily demonstrated the searcher and beatstick creep that's been a major problem lately.

While that guy may/may not have been lucky, the point I wanted to illustrate is that because YGO rewards countering more than it does deck strategy, giving Harpies three shots to counter my field is totally unfair, even though I won. If that guy didn't have Egotist, he could have had Channeler which would have accomplished the same thing as Egotist once Dancer bounced herself. Perhaps worse if he summoned a Harpie's Pet Dragon.

It makes me mad that the generic backrow power cards were removed, because highly-specific countering pretty much mandates you need the most flexible backrow possible to deal with them. Or else, you could lose the game outright in one turn from a single XYZ.
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:49 PM   #3948
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I don't see what the issue with rewarding countering is. I've said for at least the past few months that the Rank 4 toolbox is completely reactive and has very few usable proactive cards. That's not an issue to me. It requires you to play with your opponent and judge your resources. If you look at the cards that I find to be pretty overpowered, its not Rank 4 at all. It's stuff like Felgrand, Metal Flare Dragon, Pleiades, and CyDra Infinity for being proactive cards. Cards that put immediate pressure on your opponent.

Quite frankly, we wouldn't be in this position if your opponent summoned those monsters in on an empty field, because they would be completely useless. Although my opinion of Chidori is influenced by my opinion that all cards that manipulate your opponent's topdeck should be burned in a big fire.

Let's face it, you did get lucked out. Drawing three of the same card is statistically extremely unlikely, its about a 0.2% chance. It's not impossible but I think in this case its telling that it was just luck, and in the end, he was only able to bring out two stun XYZs. It could have been worse: it could have been Sylvans and suddenly you are facing down two Felgrands and a Dracossack.
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:16 PM   #3949
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Quote:
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I don't see what the issue with rewarding countering is. I've said for at least the past few months that the Rank 4 toolbox is completely reactive and has very few usable proactive cards. That's not an issue to me. It requires you to play with your opponent and judge your resources. If you look at the cards that I find to be pretty overpowered, its not Rank 4 at all. It's stuff like Felgrand, Metal Flare Dragon, Pleiades, and CyDra Infinity for being proactive cards. Cards that put immediate pressure on your opponent.
I don't agree that there was any play or judgment required when it comes to Rank 4. In the duel example I provided above, it didn't matter what the opponent brought out: I had to have two answers for a Rank 4 XYZ. If I couldn't, I would lose, because the XYZ would have set-back my game in a way that I couldn't recover from. The XYZs put pressure on me to have counters to a counter, which is far more difficult because I'm drawing my counters from the deck, while they're using the easy-access Extra Deck to bring them out.

That's a problem in general the OCG doesn't have to deal with, because they have much more powerful backrow versus XYZ. But in the TCG, XYZ counters are going to win out more often than traps will take out those XYZ counters, because they're going to be as consistent as the engines that bring them out, while traps will only be as consistent as draw power. Often, that won't go beyond the initial 5/6.

I don't think counters are bad per say, I think if you run Dark Worlds and face Gravekeepers, that's a great matchup you totally deserve to win, and the Gravekeeper player deserves to lose (or win if he manages to overcome the difficulty). In the Gravekeeper-Dark World matchup, it's totally luck based and it's the deck strategies working against one another, rather than the in-game tactical exchanges. In fact, the tactical exchanges are what would determine the game outcome, rather than simply luck of the draw.

Felgrand, Pleiades, and Infinity are also not proactive. They're stun monsters, so by definition they're reactive. Disrupting plays is a form of reactivity, since it allows the controller to identify the opponent's strategy and stop it. Those monsters are just flexible enough to have near universal utility against all deck types.

Proactive decks would be like OTK decks (Dark Matter, Hieratic, Quickdraw Quasar), floodgate lock decks (Evilswarm or Djinn-lock Nekroz) and Qliphort. Decks that have their own deck strategy, and focus in on that rather than caring too much about breaking whatever the opponent is doing.

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Quite frankly, we wouldn't be in this position if your opponent summoned those monsters in on an empty field, because they would be completely useless. Although my opinion of Chidori is influenced by my opinion that all cards that manipulate your opponent's topdeck should be burned in a big fire.
If the field was empty he'd just beatstick until I started to play cards, then go into the XYZs to break my strategies.
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:33 PM   #3950
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Quote:
I don't agree that there was any play or judgment required when it comes to Rank 4.
And yet had he not chosen what he did he would have done precisely nothing. Or not nothing per se, he would have just bounced your TGHL which is a forgivable loss. There was play and judgment there. If he didn't have Zerofyne? Not much he could have done.

Quote:
That's a problem in general the OCG doesn't have to deal with, because they have much more powerful backrow versus XYZ
Yes, because stun decks like Harpies don't exist because they get shit on by alllllllll the OTK decks in the game. You know, the Dark Matter/Atlantean/Mermail/Qliphort/Shaddoll/Masked HERO/Ritual Beast decks, and at best, people one run 1 extra Solemn Judgment. People don't main traps right now, unless its Qliphort or Infernity who quite frankly have far better traps to be running like Lose a Turn and Infernity Barrier. This doesn't even apply.

Quote:
Felgrand, Pleiades, and Infinity are also not proactive. They're stun monsters, so by definition they're reactive.
You can have proactive stun monsters. None of those monsters need anything on your opponent's side of the field to be useful, because they force your opponent's plays. Now they have to summon something bigger than Felgrand. Now they have to work around Pleiades and summon two answers to it. Now they need to bait Infinity. These monsters don't have to react to _anything_ to be useful.

(This also ignores some other potential applications, such as Pleiades bouncing cards like Fire Formation - Tenki or Call of the Haunted).

Quote:
I don't think counters are bad per say, I think if you run Dark Worlds and face Gravekeepers, that's a great matchup you totally deserve to win, and the Gravekeeper player deserves to lose (or win if he manages to overcome the difficulty). In the Gravekeeper-Dark World matchup, it's totally luck based and it's the deck strategies working against one another, rather than the in-game tactical exchanges. In fact, the tactical exchanges are what would determine the game outcome, rather than simply luck of the draw.
I still remember when my plan for beating you with Dark World was Necrovalley + Dark Highlander. Good times.
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