05-01-2017, 05:48 PM | #1 | ||
Marsh Badge
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,736
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DA SHOPS BOIZ
So in the interest of actually starting a thread on the other shops that have yet to be mentioned, I thought I would throw a quick thread up for them. So, you know, ta-da!
Da PokeMart: This is what was in the old Mart: Quote:
Maybe we could rename it the Poke Department Centre instead, since it now hosts a range of purchasable items. Da Daycare!: This is what the old Daycare had: Quote:
Da Coin Exchange: Ain't touching this till we know what is happening with coins. But it probs wouldn't change much other than a change in exchange rate. I believe that the Coin Exchange should keep the linking aspect, at least for deposits. Da Beauty Salon/Poke Spa/PokeTreats Store: I say merge the three together, they don't need to be different threads. Other than that I can't really say much about them, having not really ever used them. Da Training Centre/Move Tutor: Honestly I don't really see why we need to have two different stores for what are functionally very similar things. With the introduction of the 7th gen, I believe that the HM function would now be pretty useless and I feel that we can probably trust our userbase to be able to use TMs responsibly and not have to POST FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE THEY WANT TO ADD TO THEIR POKEMON. I know that there was talk of the Move Tutor being changed to being free possibly, or at least some parts of it. Other than having link (bleh) I'm fine everything else in the Move Tutor. Da PokeBank: I have no problems with this staying the same other than maybe not being able to exchange TMs so we don't have to worry about trying to figure out an exact exchange rate for all of them. I do believe that like the Coin Exchange, this is a shop that really should have linking attached to it, at least for deposits.
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Fizzy Bubbles: Karmas
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05-02-2017, 05:21 PM | #2 |
Marsh Badge
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I prefer focussing on a few shops at a time before moving onto others. Most of what I have here is a base to continue with, so contend anything you harshly disagree on or have an alternative option for.
The ones that warrant more immediate input appear to me to be the Daycare, Move Tutor and Pokébank. Quite a few shops can be implemented later. The Pokémart’s implementation is somewhat dependent on the currency system that’s being discussed. A few of the items in there are being made purchasable by coins for instance (please look at the currency thread and give your input), and I don’t want to set up fixed prices just yet until we’re more aware of what the new incomes are. Daycare Linking can be removed. A lot of people really don’t like all the incessant linking that’s required. It’s understandable and while I also understand the reason for it being there I think the trust system works rather well. Looking at ASB and WF for instance, there have been very few cases of people taking advantage of it (correct me if I’m wrong). Linking will, as far as I can see now, only be required for payment transactions that link to bank/candy/coin records. Tackling old rules I want to keep the weekly cycle, but is it necessary to restrict it to Mondays drop-offs only? I can feasibly see enlarging the time to include Tuesdays as well. I don’t know how others feel but sometimes busy schedules and timezones can get in the way. I believe we’re scrapping the rule that Pokémon in shops can’t be used in zones. Correct me if I’m wrong but otherwise we can scrap that rule. The same goes for Pokémon in PC slots. Shop owners should still give a confirmation post to signify the drop-off has been accounted for. Drop-offs can be done a few different ways. What we have now is that people can get 2 free levels a week. I think it’s a good starting point to continue with, unless people really want everything to come at a cost(?). Three added possibilities that have been mentioned are 1) It’s currently restricted to 2 Pokémon 1 level each, but I believe we can free that up to have it be 1 Pokémon with 2 levels – player’s choice. Move Tutor While TMs will most likely be restricted under coin purchases, MT and EM moves will most likely remain Pokédollar purchases. Tackling old rules Again; linking can be removed. Most of what I mentioned in the Daycare applies here. I’m in favour of keeping this a weekly drop-off similar to the Daycare. People were able to use it only once a week ,but they were also able to pick it up three days later. This only makes it more stressful for the SO when it really doesn’t have to be. Similar to the Daycare, it was suggested to set the price at $100. Restoring level-up moves never cost anything other than time for having a week’s stay. Perhaps maniacal of me but I think we can set a price on them similar to EM and MT moves. Moves learned at Lv.- or moves learned upon evolution (from Alola-dex onwards) aren’t a part of this but are free to include immediately (as it has always been). As for AM moves (Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, Volt Tackle and Draco Meteor). We can keep them as teachable in the Tutor House I think and set a price to them as much as we do for the others (instead of using Heart Scales). The previous limit has been that Pokémon had to be Lv.25 before they could learn them though. I don’t know what this was based on, but a more sensible restriction seems to be; -Any fully-evolved (and compatible) starter Pokémon for Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn and Hydro CannonWe can add Grass-, Fire- and Water Pledge as AM moves teachable to any starter Pokémon? If anyone wants these moves to be able to be taught to Pokémon other than the ones I listed, please give a response why and what restrictions you intend to put on them. (Note: I didn't include Icicle Spear from the old Move Tutor as an AM move because I honestly have no idea why it was.) Pokébank I think we’re mostly keeping this as is. The income will most likely remain at $250 per zone reply, meaning the old accounts can be transferred over to the new one. Linking I think will remain required for anything pertaining to currency. As for selling items. If we want to keep that, I reckon half price of what it costs in the Pokémart sounds fair. We have no fixed prices for much of that yet so it’s possible that the Pokébank will be set up without an option for selling items, with that option being added on later once prices are known. It should be mentioned that the SO is expected to check if word count of zone replies is 250 words or more, though I think we’re keeping it on as a guideline and not a hard limit. Other than that, most of the rules in the old Pokébank can be kept I think.
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Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 05-02-2017 at 05:30 PM. |
05-02-2017, 06:47 PM | #3 | |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Quote:
One of the reasons this wasn't implemented before, I suspect, is because the staff would post a confirmation post. And the confirmation post, once posted, cuts you off from posting afterwards. And these confirmation posts were sporadic -- they didn't, for example, always show up on a Tuesday or a Thursday -- and so it was just easier for the staff to say, "You get this one day in which to post shop dropoffs and then that's it until next week." But if we're doing away with confirmation posts from staff (because hurray honor system), OR if we can do a compromise where the shopkeeper posts his confirmation post on a Sunday (giving people the greatest amount of time possible to post in the shop), then I don't see that much problem with what I've proposed above. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Separate though related, I'd also like to suggest that if the community is to keep shops around then you make it so that people can drop off for more than one week at a time. This has been allowed for years in certain shops like the Move Tutor (where you can declare a string of HMs and then not come back for your Pokémon for weeks, even months) but in other shops like the Daycare it's never been allowed. My proposal is basically this, and we'll use the Daycare as the example:
First, it might help to take additional focus off of the shop culture while allowing people to still reap shop benefits. Instead of wasting half an hour to an hour every Monday on shops, I can waste half an hour to an hour every month on shops and free up those other three hours. (Maybe I won't choose to spend them on Fizzy Bubbles, sure, there's always that very real possibility. But maybe I also will.) I can see the other side to this too -- "it rewards people who only do shops and only want to swing by once in a blue moon for shop-related things" -- but I think my next reason is reason enough for you to agree that my change is a net positive. Second, people who will be going on vacation or who otherwise need to step away from FB for a short while. We have had a culture here of, "Can I ask someone to do my shop duties for me? I'll be on vacation. :')" And my big question to this is: WHY!? Why not just let the vacation-goer, before he goes on vacation, drop his guys off for a declared 4-8 weeks? It's not just vacationers: students, too, can really benefit from this change. "I need to step away from UPN for the next month because I'm not doing too well in this one class and I need to study ..." That sentence should never have to be followed up with, "... But oh, shoot! I don't want to miss out on my FB goodies! Soo ... I guess I'll still check in every Monday ... What could it possibly hurt!? :3 *continues to check UPN daily and procrastinates studying*" Not everyone has this problem, but I'm sure more than a couple of people have. These people stand to benefit from a policy overhaul which allows for weeks-long or months-long dropoffs at certain shops. (Off-topic, but related to what we've just been discussing: I am of a similar mindset that if someone knows they won't be around for Christmas, Halloween, etc. that they shouldn't be punished for not being tied to their computer that day and posting in the holiday thread for goodies. Now, in recent years the FB staff has actually been really good about this, letting threads stay up and open for seven days at a time before taking them down. This is a positive step in the right direction. But my proposal would be, let someone post that he is going to be away for Christmas/Halloween/whenever in a thread similar to Trainer Absences in the ASB, and then when that person reports back in saying, "I'm back!" or whatever, they can go and post in the holiday thread to collect their goodies. Maybe have a discretionary time limit on this of one month for vacation-related absences and one week for all other absences?)
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05-04-2017, 07:40 AM | #4 |
Marsh Badge
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Going through Talon's post one at a time
Drop off at any given time during the cycle I'm divided over this. I think we are keeping the SO's confirmation post for these shops, especially since extras can be bought with Pokédollars and thus need to be linked and checked. Because of that, I'd rather the SO did't feel pressured to set up a response at the very last moment because of potential late responders. I do think however that we can increase the drop-off time. My proposal: players can drop off Mondays-Fridays, so the SO has the weekend as a buffer period to finish up the confirmation post before the new cycle begins. I think this will provide both parties enough time. Drop off for more than 1 week at the Move Tutor I already proposed this for the Daycare, and I believe others wanted it. I forgot to add this to the Move Tutor sections as well - so yes, I agree we should allow this. Holiday give-away events I haven't thought about this aspect. It's a fair point you bring forward but with everything else going on I prefer looking at this when the next event arises. ----- Daycare/Pokémart prices So we're only giving 2 free levels out a week. Mirroring the AC, I think the price for an additional level should be half of what it is for a move now. As well as that I want to lower the price a tad. So if; *Learning 1 move costs $100, then; *Obtaining 1 level costs $50 ----- We're also currently looking at the Pokémart as we believe there should be something members can spend their Pokédollars on when zones are implemented. I'll present a basis with which to start a bit later. Prices can be negotiable after the zones have been implemented if necessary though we should remember that we're sticking with the $250 per zone reply, and that prices should be set to amount of zone replies a player has (not necessarily how much they earn a week, though it's expected to be 1 zone reply per week).
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05-04-2017, 08:49 AM | #5 |
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I like the idea of not restricting shop dropoffs/pickups to just Monday, and I think EAI's got the right idea with how to balance it so shop owners can still have a good window of time to make confirmation posts.
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05-04-2017, 08:49 AM | #6 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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I think EAI's idea of allowing weekday dropoffs and allowing the SOs the weekend. I think its a great way to reduce the stress on both ends, with neither side feeling they have to keep a strict day window in order to do their thing.
Dropping off Pokemon for multiple weeks at the Daycare / Move Tutor with upfront payment is something that should happen. If greatly simplifies things in terms of time and effort. In addition, I think the prices should have some kind of baseline, even if its something like $100 / $150 for each. Essentially, the idea that they spend your "weekly income". Let's do away with obsessive linking except in the Pokebank: link to show how you got your money and where its going.
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05-04-2017, 10:51 AM | #7 |
Marsh Badge
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Okay, I hereby present a starting base with which to work from for the following four shops. Look at the rules and see if you agree with them (I did alter them somewhat from the old shops). Prices can be negotiable in the Department Store. I've compiled the current bank records and coin records and posted here the Pokédollar balances of what I believe to be the current member base.
As for the berries in the Department Store. I recall people wanting some sort of Berry Zone to replace the weekly give-away. We could just make them purchasable but one other thing I thought of was reshaping the shop so that players could once a week plant a berry and have it sprout into a tree by the end of the week (for a price). Essentially it's like the weekly drop off of the Daycare and Move Tutor, but to start they have to purchase their first berry from the Department Store. ----- The Daycare Centre: Spoiler: show The Move Tutor: Spoiler: show The Pokébank: Spoiler: show The Department Store: Spoiler: show
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Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 05-06-2017 at 07:29 AM. |
05-04-2017, 11:14 AM | #8 |
a quick fly cuppa
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Alright, lemme have a lookie.
Daycare: Perfectly fine. Move Tutor: What would we be doing about other moves, such as HM moves and event moves such as those from purification in Colo/XD and general events? Would these be categorised under the same stipulations? Apart from that, this seems fine too. The Pokebank: Perfectly fine too. The Department Store: Ooooookay, I've some things to say here. Buyable candies: I'm very much on the fence about this, mostly leaning towards the 'heck no' side of things. On one hand, making candies a consumable is all well and that, but didn't we discuss the free weekly candy somewhere? Regarding gummis, I feel being able to buy them would be a little odd, and feel that they could be a product of whatever we deem fit in regards to berries. How would the Soothe Bell work? Would it be a consumable that gives +1 to happiness, and if so, what would happen to the salon? Healing items, I have to make a disagreement with. A standard potion for the early stage pokemon would be as effective as a hyper potion for the later stage pokemon, and I feel that placing a degree of efficiency on each potion would make the lesser potions useless. Where would this leave the drink items in terms of healing? I feel we should have a discussion on healing items with regards to this. Mail should be removed completely. When was the last time anyone here used mail, seriously? I was a little iffy on berries being sold here (and the lack of Enigma berry in the stat altering table) until I reread and saw the thought on planting them. Berries in this case would be suited to their own seperate shop (Tropius' Arboretum?) where we can deal with the purchase and growth of berry trees. Regarding the use of some items like the Cleanse Tag, we should have a seperate thread for those. However, given the fact that the Steel boosting item's an evolution one, would it be remiss to have a unique Steel-type boosting item without the evo effect, like a stainless steel spring or something? Apart from that, the Dept. store looks good. |
05-04-2017, 11:17 AM | #9 |
Dance till you're dead~
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Two things:
1) Have we decided on whether we're allowing Event Moves to be taught in the Move Tutor? 2) Gen 7 give the Pan monkey lines access to their typing's respective Pledge move. Could that be mentioned too?
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05-04-2017, 11:26 AM | #10 |
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Last I heard, the discussion for event moves was leaning towards in-zone move tutors only- like, if I wanted to teach one of my Banette Cotton Guard, I'd have to get to a move tutor in a zone, rather than dropping either of them off at the Move Tutor's.
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05-04-2017, 11:37 AM | #11 |
Marsh Badge
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Okay, addressing the issues one by one
Colosseum/XD/Event Moves I hadn't thought about them, and yes, I suppose they could be added as part of the service of the Move Tutor. EDIT: With what MM said, I now want to hold off on editing it in until I have some clarity on this issue. Candies, Gummis, Soothe Bell I honestly didn't have an idea for any of these either. I've posted them here now as a discussion point in case anyone had an idea for it. For Soothe Bell though, I was wondering if it could somehow be used as a way to boost Happiness points or similar? Healing Items I suppose that depends on how you look at healing items. It's really hard to determine good differences between them when we don't have any real HP or calculation to take into account. As far as I'm concerned, we can actually scrap this until we've introduced a working Battle System on which to base this off. I honestly have no idea either. It was mentioned somewhere I thought so I just added it. I don;t know. Maybe people want to use this to send messages in between their Base and another. I mean Escape Rope didn't exactly have a proper use either until I made one up in Whale Island...where I just used it as a regular rope. It doesn't hurt having it there, might as well keep it in case someone wants it. Cleanse Tag Almost the same as I said for mail. We can remove it if you want though. Steel-boost I knew there was something I forgot to mention! I had the exact same idea. Shall we call it "Stainless Gear" or something? The three monkeys I will add that Berries Berries were suggested to add them to the larger whole of the Department Store. They have very little purpose. Some of them however, cure status conditions and are able to be held by Pokémon. For that reason, some of them had to be made more expensive than Antidote, Parlyz Heal, Ice Heal, etc. If we do have a berry shop or berry zone of some kind then, yeah, I could see them being sold there instead. Enigma has been added to Stat-altering Berries
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Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 05-04-2017 at 12:00 PM. |
05-04-2017, 12:15 PM | #12 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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I'm okay with buyable Gummis and Candies. Buying candies with the Pokedollar gives it more use and a distinct advantage over coins for people concerned about competition. It should be rather expensive though.
Never bring up Berry Farming again please, its such a bad idea. :p Way too tedious a way to introduce RP and we should just be able to flatly buy berries imo.
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05-04-2017, 04:20 PM | #13 |
Sayonara Bye Bye
Join Date: Feb 2017
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I support buyable candies.
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05-04-2017, 04:52 PM | #14 |
The Scientist
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I'm heavily against buyable candies through Pokedollars. We already have a daycare system for essentially converting Pokedollars to levels. I don't see a need to further increase the level progression speed and further devalue candies as rewards/trade commodities.
On that note, I'm growing increasingly concerned about allowing almost everything to be bought. I'd like for there to be a good subsection of rewards other than Pokemon that you have to adventure for to obtain.
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05-04-2017, 05:56 PM | #15 |
Sayonara Bye Bye
Join Date: Feb 2017
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I suppose that's fair, Alto.
I retract my support.
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05-05-2017, 01:41 PM | #16 | |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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Quote:
Other than that, I think this is fine and that this should be able to go up very soon.
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05-05-2017, 02:28 PM | #17 |
a quick fly cuppa
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To tie in to the other thread, would daycare mons be eligible for adventures or not?
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05-05-2017, 02:48 PM | #18 | |
Marsh Badge
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Quote:
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05-05-2017, 02:53 PM | #19 |
a quick fly cuppa
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In that case, I doth approve.
...though I realise given it's a friday that the place opening gives everyone 3 hours to get their mons in. Ah what the heck, I approve. The Pokebank's also fine, and someone can write a witty blurb for it. |
05-05-2017, 08:38 PM | #20 |
Marsh Badge
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Okay, this was poorly worded, my honest mistake. These are changes that we've discussed and feel comfortable presenting to you, the community. When I said decided, I mean that we had come to an agreement on what our stance is on these issues. Apologies for the misunderstanding. These changes can still be contested which is why we're presenting this to you in the first place. 1. We're allowing candies to be purchasable. They'll be double the price of gaining an extra level in the Daycare so they won't have that much added benefit. 2. Gummis are put on hold until we have a working IQ system 3. Potions are put on hold until we have a working battle system 4. Soothe Bell - or any Happiness increasing item for that matter - are put on hold until we have a working happiness system. 5. Levels cost $75 a week (aside from the standard 2 you get for free) 6. Moves cost $150 a week 7. XD and Colosseum moves can be learnt through the Move Tutor. Event moves however remain restricted to in-zone move tutors. 8. The SO gets to write up the the shop's introduction. I've edited my previous post with these changes.
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Last edited by Ex-Admiral Insane; 05-05-2017 at 09:41 PM. |
05-06-2017, 08:42 AM | #21 |
a quick fly cuppa
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So candies will cost $150. That seems fair enough, despite my thoughts on purchasable candies.
Though to clarify, that's $150 per move in the MT, and not for a week in said place? |
05-06-2017, 09:50 AM | #22 |
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I like the idea of paying for Candies at twice the price of an additional Daycare level. Makes you choose between getting the level now or getting it at a good price.
Colo/XD moves- by this do we mean just the tutor moves exclusive to XD (Self-Destruct and Nightmare), or also purification moves for their respective species, such as Refresh on Starmie? |
05-07-2017, 03:16 PM | #23 | |
Marsh Badge
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Quick Announcement:
In the interest of getting the shops off the ground as soon as possible, we are shelving buyable candies/levels for another time, as these topics have become controversial and we want to allow for more debate and conversation. ----- Quote:
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