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Old 11-12-2018, 06:44 AM   #251
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The 3 moves isn't exactly unusual either

It's literally never happened before, aside from maybe low-level Bug Catcher/Hiker/Lass scrubs at the beginning of the game. Those characters are excusable because they're newbies with freshly caught Pokemon. It stands out during what's arguably the game's climax.

I just double checked the games I didn't play just in case and this is the first time it's happened. I can't think of any positive reason for this change.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:55 AM   #252
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Sun and Moon did it.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:02 AM   #253
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Specifically, 3 out of Hala's E4 pokemon only have two moves to their names the first time you fight hm in the League: the bewear only has Hammer Arm and Brutal Swing, the poliwrath only has Waterfall in Submission, and the crabominable only has Close Combat and Ice Hammer. They get full sets in the rematch, sure, but that's still kinda ridiculous.

Granted, Hala is by far the most extreme example, even within the League- all of Acerola's pokemon have full sets, as did those belonging to Hala's USM replacement, Molayne. Olivia has three pokemon with an empty moveslot on her team the first time you challenge the E4 in both game pairs (her relicanth, carbink, and golem in SuMo, and her cradily, armaldo, and gigalith in USUM), and Kahili, Acerola, and Kukui all fill their full allotment in both games, which really only serves to make Hala stand out even more. It doesn't seem like much of an accident that he was replaced in USUM now, huh...?
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:15 PM   #254
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  • Alolan Sandslash now has access to Ice Shard, which is awesome.
  • Every new game, I hope they give Gunk Shot to Weezing. And this game not only didn't give it the move, it seems to have axed Gunk Shot entirely. *headdesks repeatedly*
  • Zubat finally gets Wing Attack at a very early level. I approve.
  • Hm, not a single Flying move for Pinsir to compensate for Aerilate not being a thing. Aww...
  • Gastly finally learns Poison Gas! I mean, that's always irked me. "It can't learn Poison Gas? It is poison gas!"
  • Muk gets... Moonblast? The heck?
  • I see a lot of stuff actually getting Fly, Surf, and Waterfall by leveling up now (as opposed to just Goldeen and Seaking for the last of those three).
  • Melmetal doesn't get its signature move for a long while. Yeesh.
  • Voltorb and Electrode get Thunder Shock, which you would think should've been the case all along, but it wasn't.
  • Huh. Pikachu's level-up moves really weren't given too much new stuff. They got me thinking Double Kick was just the tip of the Bergmite, but no.
  • Wow. No Rapid Spin, no Defog. Man, when Stealth Rocks go up, they STAY up!
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:25 PM   #255
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>Moonblast muk
I mean, there are a few 'Dex entries stating that it's born from lunar rays (Stadium, FireRed), but this isn't exactly as great a boon to it as Play Rough would've been. I guess it might be nice to have to bop Fighting Types on the off chance you happen to want to use a Special set? Fairy's more useful overall than Psychic, anyway...


M.M., how long have you been beating your head against that desk? You were practically giving yourself bruises 12 hours ago or so...
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:25 PM   #256
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I stand corrected about the moves. WTF, that is so bizarre.

As for Muk

Spoiler: show
The candy mechanic isn't fully understood yet but supposedly one of the largest boosts is to your weaker attack stat. So almost everyone in this game is a mixed attacker, and that seems to be what GF is pushing toward - mixed attackers instead of dedicated physical/special offenses like we've had for a decade.

Moonblast Muk fits this scheme, fits the lore and is otherwise walled in any form by Fighting types. It's just...really unexpected.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:00 PM   #257
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...How'd muk be walled by Fighting Types? None of the OG Fighters resist Poison, Kantonian muk resists Fighting in turn, and muk's higher Physical Attack means that it naturally circumvents the hitmons' absurd base 110 Sp. Defense. Granted, most Fighting Types will be packing Earthquake to smack it for SE damage (especially now that it can't just hide behind an Air Balloon round one), but A) they don't get STAB with it and B) muk's still rather bulky on that side, thanks to its hearty HP stat. All Moonblast does is bring the playing field more into muk's favor somewhat.

Besides, if you're correctct about CP specifically pumping up the lowest stats (I have yet to see anything saying this is the case, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything), them most of that bonus would wind up going into muk's Speed, which... really isn't all that helpful in general. I hope that this isn't the case.

On a separate note: We've got a push toward mixed sets, and the loss of reliable hazard removal? Is GF trying to bring back the Gen. 4 meta?
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:05 PM   #258
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>loss of reliable hazard removal

Just to ask the dumb question here, but is there even anything that can set said hazards up? It seems to me that it'd make a lot more sense to lose Defog and Rapid Spin if they also cut entry hazards as a whole.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:11 PM   #259
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@Iron
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Stealth Rock, the most infamous of the entry hazards, is a TM in this game. That seems like a pretty big deal to me.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:12 PM   #260
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Aerodactyl bout to be br o k e n
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:19 PM   #261
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>loss of reliable hazard removal

Just to ask the dumb question here, but is there even anything that can set said hazards up? It seems to me that it'd make a lot more sense to lose Defog and Rapid Spin if they also cut entry hazards as a whole.
The learnsets have been leaked. Click here.

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Stealth Rock: The Geodude family learns it at Level 12. Onix learns it at Level 5. The Alolan Geodude family also learns it at Level 12.

Spikes: No one learns it via level up. Cloyster previously did.

Toxic Spikes: No one learns it via level up. Beedrill, the Nidoran family, the Tentacool family, and Cloyster previously did.

Sticky Web: No one learns it via level up. No one in the original 151 ever has.

So to answer your question:

Spoiler: show
It looks like every single entry hazard move was deleted from LGPE except for Stealth Rock -- which, as Median Dia points out, got re-promoted to TM status.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:19 PM   #262
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There's no special-type Fighting move in LGPE and as you note, EQ is very common. And Muk's strongest physical poison move is Poison Jab, it only learns special poison moves by level-up. Moonblast is its strongest answer to Fighting types.

It's not a huge deal right now since the Gen 1 fighters are well-rounded, but against something like Conkeldurr, it matters a lot. Muk outspeeds and can 2HKO it with a mixed Moonblast, even off 65 SpA.

Better coverage too, with the bonus of doing something against Dark and Dragon types, which it otherwise didn't hit SE before.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:28 PM   #263
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Aerodactyl bout to be br o k e n
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It no longer learns Sky Attack.

I think Aerodactyl needed that + Head Smash to really be broken.


Also, one of the hidden bosses in the game:

Spoiler: show
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:10 PM   #264
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Sky Attack is shit.

Taunt + Stealth Rock with 130 base Speed is nuts and it makes Aerodactyl probably the best SR setter in the game.

That is if Taunt is still in LGPE. I think it is.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:12 PM   #265
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Taunt is a TM, so yes
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:13 PM   #266
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Taunt, too, is a TM. Talk about a perfect storm, eh?


Edit: Accelgor's by Miror
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:29 PM   #267
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Sky Attack is shit.

Taunt + Stealth Rock with 130 base Speed is nuts and it makes Aerodactyl probably the best SR setter in the game.

That is if Taunt is still in LGPE. I think it is.
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If the power boost remains when items are added back, Aerodactyl is one of the best users of the White Herb/Sky Attack combo. That's why I mentioned Head Smash - in Smogon's testing lab, Mega Aerodactyl with either Head Smash OR Brave Bird was S+ rank in OU, and both moves together banned it to Ubers. So you can imagine how powerful regular Aerodactyl would be with Brave Bird/Head Smash and Rock Head.

Though, it looks to me like Crobat would probably be the strongest user overall, with its high speed and ability to bypass substitutes.
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:35 PM   #268
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I stand corrected about the moves. WTF, that is so bizarre.

As for Muk

Spoiler: show
The candy mechanic isn't fully understood yet but supposedly one of the largest boosts is to your weaker attack stat. So almost everyone in this game is a mixed attacker, and that seems to be what GF is pushing toward - mixed attackers instead of dedicated physical/special offenses like we've had for a decade.

Moonblast Muk fits this scheme, fits the lore and is otherwise walled in any form by Fighting types. It's just...really unexpected.
Spoiler: show
Alright, that's actually pretty cool. So, special attacks would be worth something on Gyarados, Weezing having lower Sp. Atk than Attack isn't that big a problem for it... I could get used to this, honestly.
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:07 PM   #269
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E4

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Lamely, the E4 only use five Pokemon in their battles and each only knows three moves.

When you rechallenge them, however, they add an Alolan Pokemon to their roster:

Lorelei: Alolan Sandslash
Bruno: Alolan Golem
Agatha: Alolan Marowak
Lance: Alolan Exeggutor
I know someone who'll love that Lance is getting an Alolan Egg.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:35 PM   #270
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The data on pikachu and eevee's new attacks have dropped, abd there's some interesting things going on here.

For eevee, we've got...
Bouncy Bubble: Already known; Water, 90 BP, Special, restores HP equal to half the damage dealt.
Buzzy Buzz: Already known; Electric, 90 BP, Special, guaranteed to Paralyze the target.
Sizzly Slide: Already known; Fire, 90 BP, Physical, guaranteed to Burn the target.
Glitzy Glow: Newly revealed; Psychic, 90 BP, Special, creates a Light Screen.
Baddy Bad: 'Newly' revealed; Dark, 90 BP, Special, creates a Reflect.
Sappy Seed: Newly revealed; Grass, 90 BP, Physical, inflicts the target with Leech Seed.
Freezy Frost: Newly Revealed; Ice, 90 BP, Special, inflicts the effects of Haze on the whole field.
Sparkly Swirl: Newly Revealed; Fairy, 90 BP, Special, removes negative status effects from the user's party.

For pikachu, there's...
Zippy Zap: Newly revealed; Electric, 50 BP, Physical, +2 Priority, and is guaranteed to land a Critical Hit.
Floaty Fall: Already Known; Flying, 90 BP, Physical, has a 30% chance to Flinch the target if used first.
Splishy Splash: Already Known; Water, 90 BP, Special, has a 30% chance to Paralyze the target.

We knew that eevee would win out here in terms of quantity of new moves, but having an advantage in regards to the quality of those moves as well came out of left field. Granted, it might be somewhat safer to just use Light Screen over Glitzy Glow so that your screen won't be blocked by a switch into Alolan muk or persian, and Freezy Frost does not play well with Extreme Evoboost in the slightest (assuming that the next games will let you have both, of course), but the sheer increase in utility backed by solid power and the ability to set up even while holding an Assault Vest (again, at a later date) is definitely impressive. That said, the fact that only two of the moves are Physical despite that being eevee's (marginally) higher offensive stat is a bit of a curiosity in its own right...

Pikachu does seem to have nailed the best Priority attack in the game, though, so it at least has that going for it.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:19 PM   #271
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It's a great priority move but I don't know that it's worth running. Pikachu is already usually running two electric moves in Thunder- and Volt Switch.

Auto crit, low BP moves are low ceiling. With the crit and STAB, it hits 40% harder than Extreme Speed, but a crit Extreme Speed hits slightly harder and offers more diverse coverage.

With the Light Ball, LGPE Pikachu's Zippy Zap hits as hard as Mega Metagross (non-crit) Bullet Punch. It doesn't make a lick of difference against Marshadow, the only notable opponent I can think of immune to Extreme Speed and >120 Spe.

Eevee's moves are disgusting. Yeah it had a mostly worthless BST boost, but those moves are the most broken thing I've ever seen in Pokemon. No exaggeration, we've reached YGO-tier gross.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:00 PM   #272
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I was looking at the move in a vacuum when I said what I did about Zippy Zap, since you don't even need to go into Mega Evolutions to find better users of Priority Moves anyway. Both scizor and breloom have been terrorizing the meta with their Technician-boosted Bullet Punches and Mach Punches (respectively) ever since they got that Ability, and both have substantially higher Attack stats than even the Partner Pikachu (2 base 130s vs. a base 80). Even without giving the former pokemon their infamous Choice Bands, they kinda have the rodent beat.

The point in looking at the moves separate from their major users lies in the fact that while Zippy Zap is currently Partner Pikachu (and smeargle) exclusive, that's not guaranteed to be the case (GF does some crazy things sometimes, after all). Looking at it this way, we instead see:
-Zippy Zap (50 BP, guaranteed to land a Critical Hit)
-Mach Punch (40 BP)
-Bullet Punch (40 BP)
-Shadow Sneak (40 BP)
-Quick Attack (40 BP)
-Aqua Jet (40 BP)
-Ice Shard (40 BP)
-Acclelerock (40 BP)
-Vacuum Wave (40 BP)
-Extremespeed (80 BP)
Here, we see that Zippy Zap is natively stronger than most of its ilk, losing out only to Extremespeed. In fact, Zippy Zap still loses to ES even with the guaranteed Crit. clause, due to Critical Hits getting nerfed in XY, so I guess I was wrong there. Sure, ES has a worse Type and substantially few fewer PP, but those shouldn't be especially big issues from a competitive standpoint if you're playing your cards right anyway. Good thing there aren't any Extremespeed users with -Ate Abilities yet, huh?
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:02 PM   #273
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Zippy Zap is the best priority move in the game right now, hands down.

The best part about guaranteed crits is that its essentially a 75 power move that always ignores defensive buffs, which is really useful. Sure, Extremespeed can be potentially more powerful but Zippy Zap has more overall usefulness and a far better typing.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:23 PM   #274
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Holy Christ Eevee tone down the moves there. And stop being Asgore with their names, too...
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:28 AM   #275
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Gameplay showing off how stupid Eevee's moves are versus (endgame spoiler alert!):

Spoiler: show

Pokemon Trainer Green.

I think Green's personality - crazy, possibly yandere - is a nice touch. She didn't really have any personality before this representation. Red is the silent, stoic hero and Blue is the snide, rich talented boy. Yandere Green fits pretty well alongside those personalities.

That said, I wonder if she's written by the same mind behind Zinnia and Courtney. Those three stand out a little too much.

Oh about Eevee...I can't see how anyone finds this kind of match fun. Use broken moves that set up Light Screen, Reflect or burn the opponent while you boost up Eevee with items. Anything threatening that isn't dealt with those obstacles, still has to deal with the suite of amie bonuses. Opponent's AI is too limited to switch to a phazer if they even have one.

How can anyone but power gamers with a canyon-sized inferiority complex enjoy something like this?
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