UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-20-2013, 05:49 PM   #76
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
With Ash reverting to a 10-year-old beginner at the start of every series it's clear that older fans will never get the closure they deserve. I hate the anime's formula with every bone in my body because it's all abundantly clear that they care more about milking their cash cow than they do about plot.
It's a kids show. A very young kids show, at that. Of course it's going to be formulaic. Of course it's mostly about milking the cash cow. I agree that these facts all suck and it'd be awesome if we could get a proper anime for Pokémon, but we're just not going to. That stated, while Unova got off on the wrong foot with one of the hardest reset buttons ever, it later corrected itself by showing a great deal more respect for older fans than any other season of the anime I've happened to catch. As far as writing considerations are concerned, Unova does some of the best things when it comes to Writing 102. In recognition of the fact that plot can't drive a cash cow cartoon like this, they turned to characters. And they did a really, really good job with that outside of the detestable and frankly silly Gen 5 rival Shootie. (Oh God. The name alone ...!) The writers had Ash meet a Gen 5 Ritchie and at least five Gen 5 Caseys. (Cabernet, Langley, Kenyan, Luke, and of course Bel.) They had him not only meet but fight alongside the person who would go on to become the tournament champion, an anime first. And ... well, this last one sort of is an example of them caring about the plot, so I'll list it separately.

The writers had Ash meet someone I never thought they'd have him meet. I mean ... that event alone ranks right on up there with your cynical point about how Ash is never going to win an Indigo League tournament. I put this event right up there with that one ... and yet they went and did it anyway. Completely blew away all of my cynical expectations about never living to see the day they'd do that.

But yes, at the end of the day, you have to know what you're getting in to. Pokémon is a show for ages 4 to 10, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you can accept that, then it's a pretty decent nostalgia trip, especially if you have others your own age and maturity level to discuss it with.

It's also great practice for anyone who wants to see how far their Japanese has come along. I admit that's a rather niche motivation for watching, but it likely applies to quite a few people here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
You can only spend so many years, watch Ash travel through so many regions, collecting so many badges and coming top-16 in so many tournaments before you realise that Ash is never going to become a Pokémon master and the show is never meant to end.
Right. Which, along with bad writing, is one reason I quit watching back around 2002, 2003. Didn't pick it back up until 2009 or so, and even then only because I felt nostalgic for the original and when I went looking for it I happened to discover a team working on the then-current Diamond and Pearl series and said "Oh what the hell, why not?" I don't doubt I'll grow tired of the series again soon and put it on hold, but for now, that moment hasn't come. I think I'll at least stick around to see what Gen 6 is like in anime form. If it's another hard reset, that's a strike. If it sees Comic Relief Team Rocket back in the saddle (which Decolora has hinted at), that's a strike too. If it LOL ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS sees the return of Brock as the traveling companion? Yeah, I'll probably check out. hahaha

While the chances are less than 8,472,566:1, I sure would love it if Gen 6 were when they did decide to take the plunge into Ash-less territory and gave us a fresh protagonist and a properly written story with beginning, middle, and end. No way in Hell is it going to happen , but it sure would be great if Gen 6 were when they decided to try it out. Really, really digging the Gen 6 female protagonist. Would love to watch a series where she's the star. Sadly, she'll probably wind up as Ash's traveling buddy. And sadly, they'll probably fuck up her hair and eye color somehow like they did with Cynthia. -_-;
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:53 PM   #77
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
The Focus Blast and Hidden Power use was dumb, sure, ... until you realize that:
  1. starting some time in Hoenn or Sinnoh, the anime suddenly started to care about the video games' four-move limitation on movepools
  2. the Beartic in this battle is one we've seen multiple times before now
  3. they couldn't just cut to the chase with him using his Ice-type moves. They wanted to build some suspense. "Well obviously a Focus Blast wouldn't do shit, but an Ice Beam ...!"
  4. it would have been even more retarded, given #1, to have displayed the Beartic knowing and using 3+ different Ice-type moves. While I'm not going to sit here and argue that Special moves make the most sense on a Beartic or that Fighting and Ice pair off as wonderfully as Ice and Electric do, you've gotta admit that Focus Blast at least decently complements Ice Beam and Blizzard, offering some utility against Steel, Rock, and Normal, with Steel being kind of a big one since it resists Ice.
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = they did the best they could with the restrictions they've put into place upon themselves. The point of the battle wasn't to see a Beartic using video game-competent commands immediately. The point of the battle was to work your way up to the HOLY SHIT DID THAT DRAGONITE JUST TAKE AN ICE BEAM!? and HOLY SHIT IS THAT DRAGONITE CHARGING THROUGH A BLIZZARD AND PUNCHING HIS OPPONENT IN THE FACE!? If that doesn't crack a smile or a "Holy shit " look of surprise on your face, then your last drop of childhood must have evaporated by now. ;p
I understand what they're trying to do and not only do I think you've giving them too much credit, but I fail to see how it counters the assertion that a lot of trainers in the animé are terrible at pokémon. Half decent explanation but not one that goes to the crux of Jeri's annoyance.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:56 PM   #78
DaveTheFishGuy
Primordial Fishbeast
 
DaveTheFishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,258
Send a message via Skype™ to DaveTheFishGuy
Also MACH PUNCH OHKO'D NINJASK WTF?
DaveTheFishGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 02:57 PM   #79
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
I think you've assumed that I'm defending the very rules they chose to behold themselves to. I'm not. All I'm saying is that given the rules they've beholden themselves to, what they delivered is better than what you're asking them to have offered instead. You want them to open up straight away with an attack that the target is 2x or 4x weak to. They want to build some suspense by starting with weaker attacks before showcasing the failure of the heavy guns. They're trying to build suspense, and honestly they've done a decent enough job of it given the rules they're beholden to. Your suggestion would produce an even stupider outcome given the rules of their universe.

But no, I quite agree that it's silly in the first place to have downgraded us from Kanto's infinite move pools to the video games' four-move limited movepools. Never mind that there are things Langley could have opted for besides direct attacks head on.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:08 PM   #80
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I think you've assumed that I'm defending the very rules they chose to behold themselves to. I'm not. All I'm saying is that given the rules they've beholden themselves to, what they delivered is better than what you're asking them to have offered instead. You want them to open up straight away with an attack that the target is 2x or 4x weak to. They want to build some suspense by starting with weaker attacks before showcasing the failure of the heavy guns. They're trying to build suspense, and honestly they've done a decent enough job of it given the rules they're beholden to. Your suggestion would produce an even stupider outcome given the rules of their universe.

But no, I quite agree that it's silly in the first place to have downgraded us from Kanto's infinite move pools to the video games' four-move limited movepools. Never mind that there are things Langley could have opted for besides direct attacks head on.
That's not what I'm asking for. For one, I'm saying I disagree with the notion that they're doing it for those narrative purposes (or that particularly achieves this end). I also never mentioned anything about the four move rule, but it would be useful there to point out that they frequently have pokémon learn a whole new set of moves all the time, which sort of defeats that line of reasoning pretty utterly. I'm saying that their use of a multitude of characters who are objectively poor battlers who do not learn from their mistakes takes away from the storytelling. Bolded is basically the alternative I was suggesting. You could make this a great battle and still have her use, for arguments sake, Ice Beam (SE), Slash (yay, physical action, excitement!), Hidden Power (reasons?) and any other move. Or not use a fourth move. Or use Rock Smash, at least that's more dynamic and (very slightly) less cliché.

Now, this sad, the use of Hidden Power and Focus Blast does prolong the battle, which you sort of alluded to. And one could argue that using Focus Blast causes 10 year olds to excitedly call out "no use an Ice move!" as if their lives depended on it. So there's that. But no, the real point is that no, animé trainers are all idiots and this is saddening. Especially Ash. Ash is just... just so... bad.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:33 PM   #81
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
it would be useful there to point out that they frequently have pokémon learn a whole new set of moves all the time, which sort of defeats that line of reasoning pretty utterly.
I'm not seeing how it would be useful seeing how it's not correct. When was the last time you watched? They do upgrade the movesets over time, sure, but for the most part the movesets are set in stone and when changes do occur the writers only swap out one move at a time. Dragonite's moveset, for example, has been the same four moves ever since we met him last year: Flamethrower, ThunderPunch, Ice Beam, and Dragon Rush. Charizard's Unova moveset is already known to be just the four moves of Wing Attack, Slash, Dragon Tail, and Flamethrower. Oshawott's moveset is just Tackle, Razor Shell, Aqua Jet, and Hydro Pump. Pikachu's moveset is just Thunderbolt, Electro Ball, Quick Attack, and Iron Tail. On and on the list of examples could go, but the point is, movesets are pretty locked in and don't wildly fluctuate from episode to episode as you seem to imply that they do, as if the writers are not beholden to the limitation and can just make up any four moves they like each episode so long as they keep themselves to just four. Nooooooo ... they pretty much stick to an agreed-upon moveset for each creature. ^_^; And this is true for the side characters' Pokémon too. Yes, they absolutely show off one or two new moves learned since the last time we saw them, but no, they don't get an entirely new set of moves and no, it's not that common for everyone to get two new moves either. It's usually either one or zero. An entire point was made around this -- we knew Kenyan's Sawk's three moves for the longest time but his fourth was kept a mystery right on up to the Don Tournament he won. And in the time since then, he's only learned one new move (Karate Chop, replacing Double Kick).
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:49 PM   #82
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I'm not seeing how it would be useful seeing how it's not correct. When was the last time you watched? They do upgrade the movesets over time, sure, but for the most part the movesets are set in stone and when changes do occur the writers only swap out one move at a time. Dragonite's moveset, for example, has been the same four moves ever since we met him last year: Flamethrower, ThunderPunch, Ice Beam, and Dragon Rush. Charizard's Unova moveset is already known to be just the four moves of Wing Attack, Slash, Dragon Tail, and Flamethrower. Oshawott's moveset is just Tackle, Razor Shell, Aqua Jet, and Hydro Pump. Pikachu's moveset is just Thunderbolt, Electro Ball, Quick Attack, and Iron Tail. On and on the list of examples could go, but the point is, movesets are pretty locked in and don't wildly fluctuate from episode to episode as you seem to imply that they do, as if the writers are not beholden to the limitation and can just make up any four moves they like each episode so long as they keep themselves to just four. Nooooooo ... they pretty much stick to an agreed-upon moveset for each creature. ^_^; And this is true for the side characters' Pokémon too. Yes, they absolutely show off one or two new moves learned since the last time we saw them, but no, they don't get an entirely new set of moves and no, it's not that common for everyone to get two new moves either. It's usually either one or zero. An entire point was made around this -- we knew Kenyan's Sawk's three moves for the longest time but his fourth was kept a mystery right on up to the Don Tournament he won. And in the time since then, he's only learned one new move (Karate Chop, replacing Double Kick).
No, it's totally correct You've rather neatly missed my line here. I am talking about recurring characters, the side ones you mention. Gary's pokémon spring to mind, Paul's too, various others who aren't rivals for much of their existence. They flip their moves around all the time. Stephan's Sawk is pretty consistent but look at his Blitzle. They also it with recurring pokémon, for example Ash's Charizard, Ash's Heracross, Misty's Gyarados, Brock's Steelix etc (once they become recurring/written out characters). Georgia's Beartic could have had radically different moves to face Dragonite if the writers had particularly wanted to

Characters who are in every episode? Yeah, by and large, they're pretty consistent. But that's rather far beside the point ^^.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:50 PM   #83
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Dude, you're talking now on the order of half-decades. I'm talking on the order of individual series. You've moved the goalposts so far out now it's rather embarrassing for you.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:57 PM   #84
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
No, Talon. I added additional characters to supplement the point. Ash, Misty and Brock, also Gary in addition to when he was more regular. But I have also given you examples of regular people and I'm sure you can find others on your own back. You are rude and you are not particularly self aware.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 03:58 PM   #85
DaveTheFishGuy
Primordial Fishbeast
 
DaveTheFishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,258
Send a message via Skype™ to DaveTheFishGuy
Girls, girls, you're both pretty!
DaveTheFishGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 05:48 PM   #86
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
With an attitude like that, you guys should seriously change your name. Keeping it as "anime-style battling" is just downright fraudulent at this point.

What didn't you like about the battle I linked? Remember that the Dragonite in question is depicted as being as experienced as and as capable as a Champion's Pokémon.
The blatant ignorance towards type match-ups, the really stupid move choice, the general poor strategy, all of it really.

The anime is pretty notorious for writing battles simply to suit the plot and take ridiculous liberties in doing so (e.g. Sceptile beating Tropius with only Grass attacks) and that battle was a pretty good example. It's so ridiculously unfaithful to the game's mechanics, let alone any system we have, that it's hardly Pokémon anymore.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #87
Kindrindra
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
 
Kindrindra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
Posts: 5,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
The blatant ignorance towards type match-ups, the really stupid move choice, the general poor strategy, all of it really.

The anime is pretty notorious for writing battles simply to suit the plot and take ridiculous liberties in doing so (e.g. Sceptile beating Tropius with only Grass attacks) and that battle was a pretty good example. It's so ridiculously unfaithful to the game's mechanics, let alone any system we have, that it's hardly Pokémon anymore.
Pokemon is more than a set of mechanics. It's rather obvious that they're focusing on fluff over crunch. Is this a good or bad thing? Up to individual opinion.
__________________
PASBL(TL: 4 RL: B-) --- FB (Kin Blackstone) --- WF (Adelie Fleur)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainmisato View Post
People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
Kindrindra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 07:02 AM   #88
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
I think I'm less het up about it than you, Jeri, and I do agree with Talon that a battle revolving essentially around Dragonite taking five Ice Beams to the face being a little lame. I get more annoyed when Ash does stuff like use terrible pokémon in Gym matches and not train his pokémon to use decent or varied attacks. Which is less important, in some ways, but my personal grievance. Why, if Buizel was supposed to be so bloody powerful, did he not teach it to use something other than fucking Sonicboom? Why does Snivy, arch defender of the universe, still have bloody Vine Whip? It's just annoying to me. particularly as the writers have seemingly gotten bored of doing it with everything so we have some of his pokémon now using a plethora of varied moves. Krookodile isn't to my tastes but at least they're giving him moves. Palpitoad is a pointless character but at least it can do stuff.

Ugh.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 05:56 AM   #89
DaveTheFishGuy
Primordial Fishbeast
 
DaveTheFishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,258
Send a message via Skype™ to DaveTheFishGuy
Not sure if spoiler or not:

Spoiler: show
Gen VI anime to start airing at the end of October.

Ash is still the main protagonist.

FUCK.
DaveTheFishGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:04 AM   #90
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
I am incredibly surprised by this surprising surprise.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 02:43 PM   #91
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
sigh

oh well
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:03 AM   #92
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513


I don't consider this a spoiler at all. We all knew it was going to happen.

What I would give for a fucking time skip at the very least. Interesting to note, he's wearing Red's hat.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 07:58 PM   #93
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
I was talking to AK2 earlier today on the phone, and he was telling me some of the basic plot elements of the Summer 2013 Pokémon movie that just came out this last week. Kuno ... you might want to look away.

Spoiler: show
BORKED

A while back, this second trailer was released. (I didn't find this out until a few weeks ago.) In it, Mewtwo's voice has magically changed from the masculine voice we heard in the first trailer to a new, clearly feminine voice. So people were madly speculating which voice was the real voice, wondering if Nintendo & GameFreak & ShoPro would really dare to stun fans with a second, feminine Mewtwo or not. No one could say for certain until the film finally came out. Well, it has, and ...

It's a girl! That's right: the Mewtwo in this movie is a second Mewtwo, and this time she's got a feminine voice. So not only did they spring a new form of Mewtwo on you, Kuno ... but they sprung a She-Mewtwo on you. Maybe she and Mewtwo can go and make Mewbabies in Gen 7's debut film.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 09:29 PM   #94
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
In response:

Spoiler: show
A lot of fans are upset about this. Lots of misogyny and hate over the new Mewtwo being feminine. I always saw Mewtwo as more of a feminine Pokemon anyway. But my biggest surprise is that this is a NEW Mewtwo! That's... weird. Mewtwo was always supposed to be a Pokemon there was only one of, but I guess some other scientists had the same idea to clone Mew and did it, too.

It's just weird to think about there being two Mewtwos now. I guess they might incorporate this factoid into X and Y somehow
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 10:38 PM   #95
Escalion
Getting married! :D
 
Escalion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,158
Send a message via Skype™ to Escalion
In response to the response:

Spoiler: show
Or Mewtwo just cloned itself? I mean, this one might sound feminine, but Mewtwo is still a Genderless Pokémon
And besides, in the first movie it proved to be perfectly capable or cloning other Pokémon + making changes on them. So why not on itself too?
__________________
Escalion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 08:24 AM   #96
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Internet residents in being disgusting human beings shocker.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > POKÉMON


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.