Online Competitive Pokemon Battle Showdown Happy Fun Times

[Princess Ana]

Did PB just move Aegislash and Mega Mawile to 1001? I could have sworn I heard that somewhere.

EDIT: Appears not. Maybe I just read the conversation wrong.

[Heather]

So, I've made some changes to the team, dropping Mr. L for Commie Fish (MeGyarados) and swapping Pac-Man for one Mega Mawile, quite aptly named CHOMP CHOMP.

And oh god its only 190 PBV

190 points for THIS level of kick-ass.

Well, that's what I call a good investment!

[Extroph]

Jynx too clutch.

[Princess Ana]

So instead of switching Jynx into the Crocune you switched in your Malamar and let it get killed?

Like I understand the part about Topsy-Turvy, but you didn't need to keep Malamar in when you have a sure fire counter in the wings.

[Extroph]

Originally Posted by blazeVA

So instead of switching Jynx into the Crocune you switched in your Malamar and let it get killed?

Like I understand the part about Topsy-Turvy, but you didn't need to keep Malamar in when you have a sure fire counter in the wings.

Yeah I messed up on Malamar; I had the thought of Topsy Turvy in mind but forgot about Jynx's ability altogether until Malamar fainted xD

[Princess Ana]

Fair enough, it happens.

[Princess Ana]

Is it just me, or do a rather odd number of people keep their Mega Medicham's in on Landorus-I. It's not to Bullet Punch either, I guess they plan to use Ice Punch and forget Landorus is 1 base speed point higher.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by blazeVA

Is it just me, or do a rather odd number of people keep their Mega Medicham's in on Landorus-I. It's not to Bullet Punch either, I guess they plan to use Ice Punch and forget Landorus is 1 base speed point higher.

If your thinking is correct, then I guess what I'd say is, base 100 speed is such a round number, and old timers like myself are still so unused to non-multiple-of-5 base speeds, that it's very easy to forget a base speed like 101. (Garchomp is like the one exception everyone remembers. And that was one of the only relevant ones at that time. It wasn't until Gen 5 when Game Freak decided to go nuts and create a whole bunch of non-multiple-of-5s.)

As for other possibilities, I think it's possible that they believe Mega Medicham can tank a hit from Landorus. His SpAtk is "only" base 115. (Amazing. But not what people have gotten accustomed to thinking of as "wall breaking" anymore.) And her own SpDef is base 85. With no natural weaknesses to Ground, Psychic, Ice, Poison, or any of the other common types that a Landorus might be expected to throw her way, most Mega Medicham users might believe that she's safe from being KOed in scenarios where you, the Landorus user, recognize that she clearly is not.

It almost goes without saying that players know the creatures on their team far better than the average player knows them. Just today, for instance, I attempted to burn a Mega Absol with Will-o-Wisp, forgetting that its ability is Magic Bounce, and wound up with a burned Wash Rotom instead. I still managed to win the game, but I could tell that it made my victory all the more frustrating for my opponent who from that moment forward took me for a newb. That's something to consider. You, as a Landorus user of some years now, know his limits and his capabilities far better than most.

[Talon87]

Haven't done too much Showdown recently since 1) Smogon burnout and 2) been focusing more on my actual Y game as a result. But here or there I may duck in for a quick one or two games. Just now, for instance ...

Wherein I deftly dodge a Critical 1337 H4x0r Ludicolo. (VGC 2014, 12 turns)

Spoiler: show

That Ludicolo. I get to laugh because I won in the end and most of his critical hits were absorbed by 4x resists. But I'd definitely be leaning more heavily towards making the "I am not amused " face if he had won because of that crit hax. Turn 1. Turn 2. Turn 5. Three critical hits, all off of the same Pokémon, in just five turns. This prompted a comment from me, one which appears to have broken the spell in hindsight given that he never got another critical hit again after that. But yeesh. Three in five turns. I guess that's the 'R' in "RNG" for you.

Wherein I'm up against a 1567. (VGC 2014, 9 turns)

Spoiler: show

Having watched Worlds this year with a better understanding of VGC than I've ever had before, I realize now more than ever that the team I threw together in order to play VGC games on Showdown is really, really thrown together and just plain doesn't work well as a competent VGC team. ^^; The individual players are decent -- the Salamence you see here has been refitted to perfectly match the scarfed variants that so dominated Worlds, for instance -- but as a team the glue is utterly lacking. I just really don't like this team. I don't know how much of it is accurate and how much of it is ego, but I feel like the 1400s are about as far as I could be expected to bring a team like this -- that if I'm going to get further along, I need a better team.

This belief is possibly reflected in this very match, where I manage to defeat my opponent who is running a cookie cutter VGC team and is a full one hundred points higher in rank than I am when the match begins. He makes plays which not only cost him the match but also give me the impression that -- no ego -- he's less skilled at this than I am. Yet he's the one in the 1500s while I'm the one who's never even gotten that high of a score before in VGC 2014 on PS.

[Princess Ana]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-158454891

I really need something for Bisharp.

[Princess Ana]

SubRoost Zapdos proves how absolutely annoying (and game-changing!) it can be.

Spoiler: show

First of all, people get pissed when this set works. It's understandable. Zapdos has good Sp.Atk and Speed for a defensive Pokemon, and the Specially Defensive set really fixes up multiple weaknesses this team has. I slowly but surely wear down all of his Pokemon with its help and with Thundurus, leaving it open for a late-game Talonflame sweep.

But just PP-stalling? No. I was also trying to take advantage of every opening possible (which is how he finally brought the bird down) and use it to slowly win victory.

This Flying monotype has proven to be really fun.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by blazeVA

SubRoost Zapdos proves how absolutely annoying (and game-changing!) it can be.

Spoiler: show

First of all, people get pissed when this set works. It's understandable. Zapdos has good Sp.Atk and Speed for a defensive Pokemon, and the Specially Defensive set really fixes up multiple weaknesses this team has. I slowly but surely wear down all of his Pokemon with its help and with Thundurus, leaving it open for a late-game Talonflame sweep.

But just PP-stalling? No. I was also trying to take advantage of every opening possible (which is how he finally brought the bird down) and use it to slowly win victory.

This Flying monotype has proven to be really fun.

Turn 22. ^^; Half of me feels bad for the guy. Half of me instantly laughed at him.

His post-game comments are as ugly and simple as one expects of Cro-Magnon players like him.

All of that stated, I absolutely despise losing to stall. It is one of the worst feelings in the world of competitive Pokémon, only matched I suppose by how great it feels to beat stall. When you lose to stall, you feel like a fly caught in a spider's web. Or like a deer with a python coiled around you. It's the worst. It takes so long for you to die, your death is so agonizing, and yet it's so certain. Yet you cling to hope that you'll somehow free yourself. You know that it's possible to do. You only hope that you can find a way to do it before it's too late.

I'm not a fan of Calm/SpDef Zapdos myself. I've associated the Bold/Def variant with Hanatori for years now because of how she was looking for one back in Gen 4. (For some reason I just never forgot this. I really strongly associated Bold Zapdos with her. We never even battled! ) I've come to think about how "Bold Zapdos is the way to go," to the point that when Smogon disagreed in Gen 5 I was like "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! " and when I saw the other day that they now agree in Gen 6 that Bold is best I was like "You're damn right it is. " hahaha But me personally, given my playstyle, I would rather be in control of a Modest or a Timid Zapdos (which is what Smogon's article writers clearly would rather be in control of too, given their bias for such sets in Gen 5). I'm not that keen on SubRoost, SubToxic, SubRoostToxic, et cetera strategies. I don't even care for the pitifully weak HP:Ice that much! (Though I acknowledge its necessity.) I want to be wrecking people with Thunderbolt/Discharge, Heat Wave, and if possible a special Flying-type move with base 80 to 100 power and solid accuracy. (Because they would totally give Zapdos Oblivion Wing. [/yeah no]) ToxicStall is smart but it's always a gamble, a gamble I feel you tend to lose the higher up the ladder you go as Steels like Scizor and Heatran morph from possibilities to guarantees. And creating a stally Zapdos without Toxic just seems like suicide to me. You rely on the high base Special Attack stat but put no (or few) EVs into it, resulting in a pisspoor Hidden Power and even an embarrassing Thunderbolt.

Which is exactly what we saw here.

And yet it worked.

Even with a 10-hit KO in HP:Ice, you still won. Even with a 5HKO in Thunderbolt, you still won. Zapdos doesn't need to do colossal damage, you show here. He just needs to do enough damage while avoiding being KOed himself. If he can do that, he's golden.

[Heather]

Egh, i'm not sure why I keep up with comp at this point. Like you said, Talon, it feels like shit to lose to stall yet its everywhere for me, and if its not stall they have either a Genesect or a Keldeo where I am. In fact, I saw my first Deo-D on PB today and I've just been in a shit mood for so many battles. If I didnt know any better I would say that GF is favoring stall themselves.

I literally play comp to have short quick battles while i procrastinate, stall needlessly lengthens and drains the fun out of these battles and while gen 6 has gotten me into competitie im falling out and itll take a lot to put me back in.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by Talon87

Turn 22. ^^; Half of me feels bad for the guy. Half of me instantly laughed at him.

I mostly laughed, but the comment also instilled a slight impatience in me. As much as he didn't like it, he clearly should have noticed that this was the only way I was going to be turn the match around. Specially Defensive Rotom-W is not something you see often (and I know its Sp.Def because I know Def Rotom takes 50%+ from Psychic and Sludge Wave) and it put me on the backfoot. By the time I brought Zapdos in, there was indeed little else I could do. So I'm not exactly going to throw away my chances of winning just because you don't like it! ^^;

Small rant.[/quote]

All of that stated, I absolutely despise losing to stall. It is one of the worst feelings in the world of competitive Pokémon, only matched I suppose by how great it feels to beat stall. When you lose to stall, you feel like a fly caught in a spider's web. Or like a deer with a python coiled around you. It's the worst. It takes so long for you to die, your death is so agonizing, and yet it's so certain. Yet you cling to hope that you'll somehow free yourself. You know that it's possible to do. You only hope that you can find a way to do it before it's too late.

I do hate losing to it (I often feel that the many times I lose to it is because of some sort of hax that prevented me from getting that KO I should have gotten), but I also love playing stall. Stall is a lot harder than it looks, even with the OU bans being generally pretty kind to it, and its a good way to help build your prediction skill, as prediction is key. I really wouldn't consider Zapdos a full on stall Pokemon (not that it wasn't used in stall obviously, I'll point out later one special case) but its a set that's often found in Gen V UU as an offensive glue for the team.

I'm not a fan of Calm/SpDef Zapdos myself. I've associated the Bold/Def variant with Hanatori for years now because of how she was looking for one back in Gen 4. (For some reason I just never forgot this. I really strongly associated Bold Zapdos with her. We never even battled! ) I've come to think about how "Bold Zapdos is the way to go," to the point that when Smogon disagreed in Gen 5 I was like "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! " and when I saw the other day that they now agree in Gen 6 that Bold is best I was like "You're damn right it is. " hahaha

As it stands, Bold Zapdos is indeed better for most teams in terms of using it. Birdspam is everywhere, and the physical set is much better at stalling Pokemon out of their Stone Edges and stuff. It also makes more sense too from a theory perspective. Ice as a type isn't common, but Ice as a coverage move it, and its usually found on Water types. Water types lose to Zapdos pretty quickly, so you generally don't need a Calm Zapdos.

Now in Gen V, things changed. One of the best Stall teams created that generation, a Sand stall team you might remember having piloted at one point when I was doing Tangrowth playtesting, used a Calm Zapdos. The reason for this was because Calm Zapdos was easily the best counter to Tornadus-T, who at that point was taking the meta by "storm", and given Tornadus' proliferation, it made sense to run it. With Rain also on the roots, it also made more sense to invest in its special bulk to help survive Hydro Pumps and Scalds and what not in the rain. However, when Keldeo came in and just shat all over Zapdos it fell out of favor again. Then Rotom-W came in at the tail end and Zapdos rose back up as a great Rotom-W check.

Once Gen VI came in and Rain went by the wayside, birdspam and Azumarill came in, Bold became the standard again. That's just the way things happen. I also don't run Bold because I already have Skarmory.

But me personally, given my playstyle, I would rather be in control of a Modest or a Timid Zapdos (which is what Smogon's article writers clearly would rather be in control of too, given their bias for such sets in Gen 5). I'm not that keen on SubRoost, SubToxic, SubRoostToxic, et cetera strategies. I don't even care for the pitifully weak HP:Ice that much! (Though I acknowledge its necessity.) I want to be wrecking people with Thunderbolt/Discharge, Heat Wave, and if possible a special Flying-type move with base 80 to 100 power and solid accuracy. (Because they would totally give Zapdos Oblivion Wing. [/yeah no]) ToxicStall is smart but it's always a gamble, a gamble I feel you tend to lose the higher up the ladder you go as Steels like Scizor and Heatran morph from possibilities to guarantees. And creating a stally Zapdos without Toxic just seems like suicide to me. You rely on the high base Special Attack stat but put no (or few) EVs into it, resulting in a pisspoor Hidden Power and even an embarrassing Thunderbolt.

This is without a doubt a Hyper-Offense team. Mega Aero, Double Genie, and Talonflame doesn't get too much more HO. But I needed some kind of glue for the team. First I needed a good Defogger, and Skarmory is easily the best one for Flying-types. From there, I needed something that could stop Pokemon like Rotom-W and birdspam. Skarmory is...semi-reliable. Talonflame can easily hit it with Flare Blitz and that's not cool. Zapdos works with that. It doesn't need bold to check birdspam, just HP investment. Sp.Def investment allowed me to have a nice glue against many of the Pokemon that threatened this mono-type. So that's why I did a Sp.Def Zapdos instead of something like Scarf Zapdos.

Which is exactly what we saw here.

And yet it worked.

Even with a 10-hit KO in HP:Ice, you still won. Even with a 5HKO in Thunderbolt, you still won. Zapdos doesn't need to do colossal damage, you show here. He just needs to do enough damage while avoiding being KOed himself. If he can do that, he's golden.

That's pretty much the idea. And it worked well in this case.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II

Egh, i'm not sure why I keep up with comp at this point. Like you said, Talon, it feels like shit to lose to stall yet its everywhere for me, and if its not stall they have either a Genesect or a Keldeo where I am. In fact, I saw my first Deo-D on PB today and I've just been in a shit mood for so many battles. If I didnt know any better I would say that GF is favoring stall themselves.

I literally play comp to have short quick battles while i procrastinate, stall needlessly lengthens and drains the fun out of these battles and while gen 6 has gotten me into competitie im falling out and itll take a lot to put me back in.

From what I've read and observed, Game Freak doesn't favor anything when it comes to Singles. Their concern for a balanced metagame appears to be in Doubles. And possibly only in the "bring 6, pick 4" Doubles of VGC fame. I'm not a big fan of the format myself. I still prefer 6v6, and I still prefer Singles over Doubles. I think Smogon has at least historically tried to ensure a Singles metagame which is neither dysfunctional nor dissatisfying, but I suppose the fact that Smogon even came into being at all speaks for the fact that, as far back as Generation 3 (and indeed Generation 1, long before Smogon), "not all Pokémon were created equal" and you had some things that just didn't play nice with other things.

If you are unhappy with Smogon Singles, and if you are unhappy with PokéBattle Singles too, and if you are even unhappy with game pak Singles, then one thing you can try is to see how you like Doubles. Even at its stalliest, it is a fast (sub-15 turns) metagame. If you specifically pursue VGC Doubles, then you'll have the added bonus of being allowed to use almost every single creature or strategy that you want to. (The 2014 format restricts you to KalosDex, Kalos-born creatures only, but it's believed that 2015 will be allowing the NationalDex while still restricting it to Gen 6-born.)

Think of it like school subjects. Right now, you've taken Algebra (Smogon) and Geometry (PokéBattle). They're both mathematics. If you're saying you have come to hate them so much, then before writing off all of academics (competitive Pokémon), why not see how you like English, history, or biology? (Other formats within the competitive scene.) Maybe you'll love Monotype. Maybe you'll love 6v6 Doubles. Maybe you'll love 4v4 Doubles. Who knows. Take a break from 6v6 Singles and give some other formats a try.

[Heather]

Thing there is I've sworn off smogon and showdown for good and i dont know if PB has doubles yet.

Edit: It does not. They're really fresh off so they have yet to have anything other than 1000/750/500 singles.

Edit 2: cart singles is the devil because there are people who make teams entirely of Kyogres and mewtwos, not to mention the people who DC when they're beaten and make the battle a loss for both parties, even when an opponent didn't do it to them. I'm never going back there unless I'm REALLY bored one day.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II

Thing there is I've sworn off smogon and showdown for good and i dont know if PB has doubles yet.

Edit: It does not. They're really fresh off so they have yet to have anything other than 1000/750/500 singles.

Edit 2: cart singles is the devil because there are people who make teams entirely of Kyogres and mewtwos, not to mention the people who DC when they're beaten and make the battle a loss for both parties, even when an opponent didn't do it to them. I'm never going back there unless I'm REALLY bored one day.

Ranked battles on the game pak will only award a loss to the person who ragequits and D/Cs. They award the other player a win. That's what I was reading just the other day, anyway. I haven't done any ranked battles myself yet.

Free battles, on the other hand, may not award you a win when the other guy D/Cs but they don't officially award you a loss either. As you've probably noticed, your profile reports how many battles you've won but doesn't report how many battles you've been in. Whether or not it keeps a secret tally should be irrelevant to your concerns. Whether you're in one free battle with a ragequitter or ninety-nine, no one is ever going to know nor are they going to see ninety-nine recorded losses for you.

Conclusion: if you're upset about D/Cers, perhaps you should play more ranked games.

[Heather]

Ranked battles require Global Link and stuff which I still for the life of me cannot figure out.

Edit: So i decide to research stallbreaking by making a stall team and seeing what that isnt Taunt ruins it.

Immediately all my opponents have Taunt at all times.

I cant even research how to get by my greatest obstacle my luck is so bad.

[Jerichi]

Smogon Doubles are surprisingly non-Smogon-y if you're looking for a fun 6 vs. 6 Doubles Format. I don't know a lot about it but I've heard pretty consistently good things.

[DaisyInari]

My opponent had a Ditto, so I needed to do some strategizing!

I battled this person earlier today, although I lost! I'd call this revenge getting \o/

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by DaisyInari

My opponent had a Ditto, so I needed to do some strategizing!

I battled this person earlier today, although I lost! I'd call this revenge getting \o/

Spoiler: show

>Turn 1

I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES HEAT WAVE MISSES FOR ME. Confirmation bias my ass. That move misses a heck of a lot more than 10% of the time on Showdown. Easily twice that rate. And I treat using it the same way I would treat using a move like Focus Blast or Hydro Pump for that very reason. Because it misses far too often when I need it not to!

>Turn 11

AND THEN ROCK SLIDE MISSES! WHAT IS WITH THAT TREVENANT!?

>Turn 12

At least he was paralyzed this turn. :')

>Turn 13

... Are you shitting me? ANOTHER Rock Slide miss!?

>Turn 25 and some earlier turns too

At least things evened out in the end. :') What a haxy match. So many misses ...

>Finale

Excellently orchestrated endgame. The whole final bit from when it's 2-2 forward. Well played, well earned victory.

[Heather]

>Rock Slide Misses

THIS IS A TASTE OF MY EXPERIENCE WITH ROCK SLIDE. IT IS BUT A VANGUARD OF WHAT IS TO COME. Again, confirmation bias? Hell no. For a 90 accuracy, my heavy use sees it miss more than that. Granted, it might be a placebo effect of me praying it won't miss every time I use(d) it, but hey. It still missed a crapton.

I don't use Rock Slide anymore, as PB has many less birds, and so there's not as much need for birdbaiting with Dig/Rock Slide. The few birds there are are nicely handled by Caladbolg. Of course that means much more stall. Ugh.

Blaze I think you mean Murphy's Law.

[Princess Ana]

Law of Small Numbers.

[Red Panda]

So close!

Spoiler: show

I could not resist the pull of OU, so I decided to slap together a team and hope that it worked! Well, it did. I feel kinda bad for using BIRD but I also have Diancie and Thundurus so it balances out.

I started off horribly, losing one of my best pokemon (Thundurus) to the choiced Landorus since I did not realize it was choiced! I then proceeded to lose Mega Gyarados as well to that ugly Vaporeon.

Anyways, things were looking up after the Diancie mini-sweep, but that damn Kabutops kept me from a clean victory. I managed to get it low enough for Brave Bird to finish it off, then pulled a fairly risky gambit swords dancing, really hoping that the Stone Edge would miss. And it did! I go for the jugular, but sadly miss by a mere 2 percent. My opponent won in style!

EDIT: I now realize that had I kept up the Roost -> Dragon Pulse action with Latias I could've won, as the Stone Edge may not have KO'd me had I not Healing Wish'd. And I would've had a much better chance of winning if I had Sucker Punch'd instead of Iron Head'd, but ah I couldn't have known that we had speed tied.

[Princess Ana]

Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II

Blaze I think you mean Murphy's Law.

Actually I don't. It's a Law of Probability, and the inverse of the Law of Large Numbers. The Law of Large Numbers states that the more times an event occurs, the closer and closer the experimental probability will reach the theoretical probability. The Law of Small Number is the opposite. Over a given interval of numbers (like say use of Rock Slide 15-25), the experimental probability is more likely to be different from the theoretical probability. So over the course of your career, you may have used Rock Slide 50 times, and complain that the accuracy is not 90%, but rather 77%. But someone could come with data for every time its used on Smogon and show the experimental probability of Rock Slide hitting is 91.7%. Get what I mean?